On The Road

I'm in Philadelphia today, which is why I haven't been blogging. The President is on a trip to:

But Mr. Bush is not staying overnight in the world’s most populous Muslim nation, which Washington has portrayed as a critical test in the struggle to promote moderate, democratic Islamic states. The Secret Service said it was too dangerous, so he will spend the night in Hawaii.

This sort of thing is hardly dispositive, but you can't take it as a good sign when the president's policies are so hated in the Muslim world that he regards it as unsafe to stay overnight in Muslim countries.

Comments

Give me a break. Bush was perfectly willing to overnight in Pakistan, something that President Clinton refused to do (due to the Secret Service's objections) - BEFORE 9/11. I guess Clinton's policies were so hated in the Muslim world that he "regard[ed] it as unsafe to stay overnight in Muslim countries" too?

Posted by Al | November 18, 2006 7:34 PM

Al, the difference between Clinton and Bush is that Bush's policies actually are mindnumbingly anti-Muslim while Clinton's policies weren't actually... well, what exactly were his policies? Did he have any toward the Muslim world, in general? I don't recall him talking about Crusades, like a freaking moron.

Sadly, responding to you makes me feel like I'm talking to a different freaking moron, who has left behind Kevin Drum's site to end up here. Sigh.

Posted by mainemc | November 18, 2006 9:00 PM

I guess Clinton's policies were so hated in the Muslim world that he "regard[ed] it as unsafe to stay overnight in Muslim countries" too?

Uh...well, it certainly indicates Clinton's policies were hated in Pakistan.

Yet another edition of Easy Answers to Al's Moronic, Dishonest Questions.

Posted by grh | November 18, 2006 9:10 PM

I have to say I think he's also just an incredible pussy. they closed 5 or 6 of the main roads here in Singapore for an entire hour so he could drive past without encountering other vehicles. this is party just the pro-security paranoia of Singapore, but if he won't even spend the night in Indonesia...cracker, please. that said, he is extraordinarily hated by SE asian muslims.

Posted by belle waring | November 18, 2006 10:00 PM

I have to say I think he's also just an incredible pussy.

Of course he's a pussy. This is news? 9/11 happens, and that bitch turns tail and hides in Nebraska. Say what you want about Rumsfeld--and he's been awfully harmful to our national interests--but he was apparently in the Pentagon when the plane hit, and he stuck around to try to help.

I would have thought Bush's behavior would have just killed him with the public. But, no, the Reds were scared, and in their infinite wisdom, they decided that a draft-dodging drunk and five-deferment partner were the way to go. Maybe they wanted to make sure that we had a President who could feel their fear. I can't believe we ever took shit from these people about anything.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | November 18, 2006 10:21 PM

party s/b partly.

Posted by belle waring | November 19, 2006 12:01 AM

Watch out. Lots of assholes in Philly.

Posted by Atrios | November 19, 2006 1:34 AM

Pakistanis hate Clinton because he imposed sanctions on Pakistan for their nuclear test. While sanctions were placed on India, Clinton paid so much attention to India and showed so much more respect to India that the people noticed and he actually became popular in India despite the sanctions. Sometimes knowing a little history can help, Al.

Posted by Reality Man | November 19, 2006 2:47 AM

Another question Al. I'm guessing you don't exactly subscribe to Dawn, otherwise you would seem more knowledgeable about Pakistani issues. So did you just Google something like "Clinton+sleep+Muslim+nation" and see what you got? Isn't this just a fancy way of rolling out the "It's all Clinton's fault!" argument?

Posted by Reality Man | November 19, 2006 2:49 AM

You know what I think?

I think that George W Bush doesn't like music. And I don't just mean that he had mind-numbingly bad taste in music like Bill Clinton (if you're going to like Fleetwood Mac you're supposed to like the Stevie Nicks songs and fast forward through the rabble [it does not follow however that Stevie Nicks' solo records are better than her Mac stuff - the band seems to have kept her from flying away to Gypsyland and snorting so much coke her nose no longer has two separate passageways]).

I think that George W Bush doesn't like music period, and if you had wanted to throw a gotcha question at him in 2000 you should've asked him something like: "Governor Bush: it don't matter who's in Austin; do you know who's the king?" And of course he wouldn't have known who the king is, and it isn't just because he isn't a real southerner, and not a real populist. It's because he doesn't like music period, and no one who doesn't like music deserves to be in the White House. It is anti-human.

And had someone done so we wouldn't be in this mess.

Posted by Linus | November 19, 2006 2:54 AM

Indonesia is relatively safe, if you are not Bush, and stay away from likely bomb targets (Bali twice and Jakarta once). People assume he is anti-muslim even though he has close ties to the Saudis.

Posted by capturedshadow | November 19, 2006 7:42 AM

You're right, Reality Man, I haven't read Dawn regularly since when I was in Pakistan for a few months in 2000. But no, the google search was not so vague, since I already knew well that Clinton had avoided sleeping in Pakstan (it was reported extensively when Bush decided to sleep in Pakistan a few months ago).

However, this is not a "a fancy way of rolling out the "It's all Clinton's fault!" argument". It's a fancy way of rolling out the "Clinton was a much bigger pussy" argument.

More seriously, though, it's a way of saying that this is a silly way of assessing the President's policies (even accepting, arguendo, that a major goal of the President's policies should be to make people in other countries like us or our policies; I don't think that necessarily true). Clinton stayed away from sleeping overnight in Pakistan for security reasons, and Bush slept there despite security concerns, even though by any measure Clinton's policies were much more liked there than Bush's policies are (sanctions issue notwithstanding).

Posted by Al | November 19, 2006 12:58 PM

BTW - even sillier than Matthew's point is belle waring's point. They closed down the roads when Bush went through?! Really?! I'm shocked, shocked. They would never ever do that here in America. For any President (Clinton included).

Duh.

Posted by Al | November 19, 2006 1:00 PM

Belle Waring's point is not stupid. American Presidents inconveniencing entire cities with huge traffic problems already is an uderstated part of why America is so unpopular in the world. At minimum, it means every state visit by a US President brings out the latent anti-Americanism in the most apolitical commuter, which would seem to make the visits counter-productive.

Just because something predates W does not automatically make it a good idea. The coverse, however, holds: any policy of the American executive introduced after January 2001 is, ipso facto, a bad idea.

Posted by Pithlord | November 19, 2006 1:22 PM

The Bush Bubble

Nice tight little review of the chimperor

Posted by фиг | November 19, 2006 3:54 PM

pithlord is right: all the discussion, everywhere I went, was about how Bush had closed down the roads and even caused a 1 hour delay in adminstering the O-levels. people thought it showed high-handed arrogance (as I say, not necessarily Bush's fault, but there you are). this was not a 'yay america' moment.

Posted by belle waring | November 19, 2006 10:43 PM

When he last visited London, the SS tried to negotiate immunity from prosecution for their agents in case they had to shoot anyone. That went down really well (and naturally, the Met leaked it to the press).

Posted by ajay | November 20, 2006 5:13 AM

At least the sorry SOB is supposed to be staying put at Hickam or Pearl Harbor and not venturing forth to fuck up our traffic too.

Posted by DaveL | November 20, 2006 2:18 PM