Lean, Sinewy

I thought I might take on the truly unimportant issues raised by Jacob Weisberg's profile of Barack Obama in Men's Vogue. First, since when does Men's Vogue exist? I've never heard of this. The magazine industry is supposed to be dying, people, this is no time to be starting up new glossies. Second, seriously, how many magazine profiles of Obama does the world really need -- 10? 57? Will he be on the cover of the next TV Guide? What I'm really wondering about, however, is this: "His build is so lean and sinewy that he seems much shorter than his 6'2" stature."

It always seems to me that people who are tall and lean appear taller than they actually are, since the leanness emphasizes their sheer verticality. Discussion about two weeks ago with friends, however, revealed disagreement on this point and some support for the Weisberg line. What says the distributed intelligence of the internet?

Comments

I support your theory that skinnier people appear taller, though perhaps less intimidating. Having personally seen Obama up close, I'd say 6'2" seems about right. He is quite skinny, though.

Posted by Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy | December 13, 2006 1:23 PM

I agree with the doctor.

Posted by JP | December 13, 2006 1:27 PM

Maybe he's an MLB 6'2".

Posted by Rob | December 13, 2006 1:28 PM

You're right insofar as "skinny" is synonymous with "gangly". A picture of KG in an open field (or in front of a blank wall) with nothing for reference, would look like a picture of a really tall guy, whereas a picture of Shaq under the same conditions would look, I believe, like a picture of a really imposing/hefty guy of average height. I don't have a good feel for how gangly Obama is in his skinniness, but I can understand both sides of the argument here. Obama seems like the sort of guy who'd have great posture, though, which also goes a long way.

Posted by Quarterican | December 13, 2006 1:30 PM

Dude, lean and sinewy. Hmmmm, is this the time to quote Andrew Sullivan on peepee sizes?

or am I reading too much in the blogosphere today?

(that said, I'm tall and thin, and invariably slouch to make up for it. Perhaps the point is not physical but behavioral. Obama does seem to stand straight - why is nobody commenting in his excellent use of posture to convey his emotions?)

Posted by mc | December 13, 2006 1:31 PM

I've seen Obama in person, both times when he wasn't being mobbed by a crowd. (Once at a gym, once at a candidate debate when he was 3rd in the polls in the 2004 Senate race.) His leanness actually does make him look a bit shorter than 6'2''. I'm 5'11'' and I didn't get the sense he was much taller than me.

Posted by David Weigel | December 13, 2006 1:34 PM

I dunno, when I saw Obama he looked like a tall, skinny dude to me.

Posted by Matthew Yglesias | December 13, 2006 1:35 PM

I think the length of limbs relative to torso influences perception of height quite a bit.

Posted by Brad | December 13, 2006 1:36 PM

Someone who is the same height as you or shorter, will appear shorter than they actually are if they are skinnier than you. The average 6'2" (or taller) American male will think Obama is shorter than 6'2".

Posted by henry evans | December 13, 2006 1:39 PM

Weisberg's right. It's the "is he at all intimidating" thing, I think. I'm guessing your brain sorts that out first, then guesses at height. In the absence of other telling factors (weird stocky body shape or something), I think you (or at least I) guess taller than accurate.

Iverson's thinness doesn't seem to make him seem taller.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | December 13, 2006 1:42 PM

Keep in mind our current 5'8" president has always been called 6'0" tall.

Posted by Rob | December 13, 2006 1:58 PM

When I randomly ran into Obama and was recounting it later to others, I know I remarked on how skinny he seemed, not his height. Other people who've met Bill Clinton have told me a) how big his head is; and b) how red his face is. This suggests to me that Obama needs radical cranial resizing and a steady diet of steroids and liquor to be truly ready for prime time, physically speaking.

Posted by Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy | December 13, 2006 2:03 PM

"Men's Vogue"? I thought for sure that was called "Maxim".

Posted by Doctor Memory | December 13, 2006 2:07 PM

Someone ... maybe it was Gregg Easterbrook so I ought to ignore it ... that Magazine subscriptions are staying steady or slightly increasing, even as newspapers suffer dramatic decline.

Anyway, I thought Men's Vogue was called "GQ", and Men's Cosmo was called "Maxim".

Buut as to the content ... Obama is unbelievably skinny. I think he's around 160 or under. Since most politicians are overweight, his physique is highly unusual among his peers. And certainly less imposing physically. The Big Dog was, what, 6'4" and stealing everyone's French Fries?

I think skinny makes tall people look even taller. So, if Obama were 6'5", people would say he's lanky or somesuch. But at 6'2" he's within the bounds of normal male height, more or less.

Posted by Nicholas Beaudrot | December 13, 2006 2:14 PM

Well, maybe sheer verticality isn't a problem you have to face every day, Matt, but some of us aren't so lucky.

Posted by SqueakyRat | December 13, 2006 2:17 PM

Yeah, it can go either way. I'm 5'7", and people guess my height at anything up to 5'10", because I'm broadshouldered and have a big head: I look like a big strong woman, and people interpret that as tall. Bush, on the other hand, looked littler than his 5'11" during the 2000 campaign because he's fit enough to be skinny/wiry.

But if you're big enough to look imposing even without mass, skinny can make you taller.

Posted by LizardBreath | December 13, 2006 2:22 PM

As to how many magazine profiles does he need: just wait until 2007. Every candidate will probably get profiles galore. Recall that half the public doesn't yet know enough about him to form an opinion.

Posted by Nicholas Beaudrot | December 13, 2006 2:28 PM

I'm ~ 6', and I tend to view people as - shorter than me, my size or taller than me (I know self-absorbed, but on the issue of height, I'm fine with this). When a guy is skinny and 6'2", I often feel like he is "my size", whereas a guy who is ripped and 6'2" is taller than me.

Posted by MDtoMN | December 13, 2006 2:33 PM

From where I stand, Obama looks about 340 Electoral College votes tall.

Posted by brooksfoe | December 13, 2006 2:40 PM

the ratio of leg length to torso is crucial for perception. taller people have proportionally longer legs. a short legged tall guy can look short, and a long legged short guy can look tall. at least from afar.

Posted by chet snicker | December 13, 2006 2:57 PM

Usually I'd agree that being lean makes you look taller (sadly I'm neither), but I recently saw an old friend who's gotten very skinny and it makes her look even shorter.

As for Obama articles, will the Republicans cry Liberal Bias every time the magazine doesn't include his middle name? In all caps?

Posted by aleks | December 13, 2006 3:11 PM

Brooksfoe:

that's the best comment I've read all day:)

I agree with most people here - I see mass before I see sheer height.

When I was at yearlykos I got to stand about 15 feet away from Mar Warner. I'm (a beef-cake) 5'10'' and my friends swore Warner stood 6'4'', but I came away thinking we were the same height.

Posted by A different matt | December 13, 2006 3:31 PM

Leaner looks taller. Taller is not the same as bigger.

Posted by cmac | December 13, 2006 3:54 PM

Hmmm.. I wonder if this has anything with the "people think Matt's short" phenomena?

Hmmm..

Posted by Ross | December 13, 2006 3:55 PM

I vote "lean and sinewy" = "taller".

Posted by Robert Earle | December 13, 2006 4:16 PM

Graphic design 101: thin equates to tall, thick equates to short.

At least the magazine cover isn't green.

Posted by Tom A. | December 13, 2006 4:17 PM

Obama has a pencil neck and he's skinny across the shoulders. "Lean and senewy" is a euphemism for "scrawny." "Seems much shorter than his 6'2" stature" is a euphemism for "he's not physically intimidating."

Posted by JR | December 13, 2006 5:35 PM

If you'll allow me to parlay the "why" of Men's Vogue into my Theory of Vacuous Commerce... NO? Too bad!

This kind of thing has been going on for a while now and for one reason alone: money.

Look, the market for women is now at limited growth. You have incredible amounts of money invested in media and advertising to help women think that "X" is the desirable physical type and look and a vast number of products to help achieve "X" and that if you are not concerned with achieving "X" and don't make efforts to achieve "X" then you're not very worthwhile.

This of course has had varying degrees of success but most of us know some woman who buys all those gossip tabloids or magazines or products. Well now that they have exhausted the female market there is only one gender to go and all those things in regards to "X" for women? Now men need to look like "X" too. That's why you have some many commercials for male "body spray" and so on. It's an expansion of the usual products targeted at guys to make them as concerned with "X" as women. Now of course not all will be take in just as there are many many women who are not taken in. But just as with women, some will be and then they have customers for a very long time.

Simply put, they are trying to turn as many men as possible into those kinds of girls obsessed with their looks because that means money in the bank. That necessitates a cultural change, after all, how much more visible are "metrosexual" men than they were even 10 years ago?

Posted by MNPundit | December 13, 2006 6:29 PM

Ask the ancient Greeks about the importance of proportion. They designed entire temples based on the diameter of the columns. And the columns were bulged in the middle to appear straighter from a distance - something called entasis.

Posted by Pat | December 13, 2006 6:31 PM

Speaking of pressing issues: What I find interesting is that Matthew Yglesias is just now commenting on what was in the September-October issue of this magazine. So, you didn't want to come off as being too into the fashion rag, and therefore you waited all this time?

Posted by nandrews3 | December 13, 2006 10:27 PM

Ya know, it's funny. You think Matt would note the passing of an important man, a man without whom the Green Lantern theory would be impossible.

Posted by Clark | December 13, 2006 10:52 PM

Does Obama need to be intimidating? Many people may have been enamored with the idea of manly men showing off their straight-shootin' toughness to protect us from the forces of eeeevahl in 2004, but at this point, I think most Americans have gotten sick of the whole "burly, trigger happy thug" ideal as a model of executive authority.

Posted by Julian Elson | December 13, 2006 11:27 PM

Well, Licoln was our gangliest looking president so that portends well for Sen. Iraq Hussein Osama.

(not that I know what all our presidents looked like)

Posted by miguel | December 14, 2006 12:43 AM

"William Howard Taft is in the White House. Three hundred pounds of pure Republican."

-- voiceover from the start of "True Grit"

Posted by ajay | December 14, 2006 4:40 AM

The reason he looks shorter than his 6'2" is since he's lean and gangly people assume that he looks taller than what he is so they make the mental adjustment. The long and short of it is that he looks shorter 'cause he looks taller.

Posted by LowLife | December 14, 2006 8:34 AM

"the ratio of leg length to torso is crucial for perception. taller people have proportionally longer legs. a short legged tall guy can look short, and a long legged short guy can look tall. at least from afar."

I'm 6'6", but I have only a 33" inseam. I consider myself the world's tallest dwarf. People have guessed my height at 5'10" before seeing me up close. There is a guy at work who 2-3 inches shorter than me, but built like a waterbug. Nobody thinks I'm taller than this guy, even when they see us standing next to eachother.

Posted by Njorl | December 14, 2006 11:06 AM

i stood about 10-15 feet away from obama at an appearance he made in texas. 6'2" seems right to me. he stood just a tiny bit above the average person. and i definitely didn't take away that he was somehow overly skinny or unintimidating. the dude's got presence.

Posted by matt w. | December 14, 2006 2:04 PM

see also this picture

Posted by matt w. | December 14, 2006 2:06 PM

"he stood just a tiny bit above the average person." I think Obama has got a good chance in the election just for that. One doesn't want to see someone towering over the rest, like what John Kerry did two years ago. Rather it's desirable to emanate hospitable leadership. Superiority must be balanced carefully with affinity. Also it's funny how his name sounds awfully close to Osama.

Posted by Y. Jiang | February 16, 2007 8:20 AM