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Yes, It's Policy

28 Dec 2006 11:05 am

Josh Trevino is none too happy with my Ethiopia commentary. Trevino knows a good deal more about Africa than I do and has some experience with recent American policymaking on that continent. Thus, even though I disagree with the general thrust of his commentary, let me recommend his Christmas afternoon post on the war which confirms the basic point that these events are tied to deliberate American policies. He also usefully spells out the basic strategic thinking here. His take on Ethiopia's July intervention:

Ethiopia has reason to fear the ascent of the ICU. In addition to the ordinary concerns that a neighboring Islamist state might bring, Ethiopia itself has a significant Somali population within its borders. The proportion of Somalis in Ethiopia is not especially large — about 6% — but they inhabit and dominate the strategically important Ogaden region. Furthermore, despite its historic Christian identity, modern Ethiopia actually has a Muslim plurality of nearly half. The combination of Somali nationalism plus Islamization is one that the Ethiopian state can hardly afford. Were an ICU-style movement to gain traction within Ethiopia, a Muslim Ethiopia reflecting demography — and demographic trends — is more than conceivable. Add to this the (probably spurious) Ethiopian conviction that the ICU is aided by longtime enemy Eritrea, and the case for intervention becomes overwhelming.

Trevino describes "the defense of the transitional government" as offering "a veneer of legality," "but it is only that" -- a veneer. From the American point of view, Trevino says:

The American rationale for this war is remarkably similar to the Ethiopian: we have a compelling interest in the eradication of an Islamist state of any type, anywhere in the world. That the Somali ICU has requested and received foreign jihadi assistance only bolsters the case for its eradication: we should know better by now than to permit an unmolested mixing of Islamists from around the world. The rise of the Somali Islamists also illustrates rather well the intersection of Muslim states' complicity in the expansion of jihadism around the world: according to the CSM, "a UN Monitoring Group report has charged that Eritrea, Egypt, Djibouti, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, and Sudan have all contributed funds, arms, and technical support to help Somalia's Islamists take control." This is a combination that neither Ethiopia nor America can ignore.

Which is just to say that for all our disagreements on the merits of this policy, Trevino and I agree on the basic shape of the situation -- it is American policy to encourage Ethiopian intervention into Somalia and to use Ethiopia as a proxy to combat the Islamic Courts Union. What's more, just as Spencer and I were suggesting yesterday, despite vague claims about Somalia harboring terrorists, the actual concern here isn't any specific instances of ICU harboring anyone in particular. Rather, it's a general concern about the need to combat Islamist political movements whenever and wherever they arise.

Trevino thinks my trepidation about this policy stems from specific partisanship, which I think is fairly ridiculous. Criticizing the Bush administration's conduct in the Horn of Africa isn't going to achieve anything for the Democratic Party, which is precisely why you don't see Democratic elected officials doing it.

Simply put, it seems to me that this kind of proxy-based approach to world policy is fairly ill-advised. The tendency in these situations is for the tail to wag the dog and the United States to end up involved in conflicts that have very little to do with actual American interests. Our clearest concrete interest in this matter seems to me to be the presence of a very small number of people involved in previous anti-American plots in Somalia. The best way to obtain those suspects would have been to try to cooperate with the ICU in securing custody over them. Having us instead back Ethiopia's regional ambitions is a good way to serve Ethiopian policy goals, but accomplishes little for the United States unless American interests in the Horn are simply defined as helping Ethiopia do whatever it wants, which is precisely the tail-wags-dog scenario that worries me.

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Comments (29)

"...we have a compelling interest in the eradication of an Islamist state of any type, anywhere in the world."

Nuff said. Trevino is a genocidal bigot, with a brain, mutant moralism, and connections that make him more reprehensible and dangerous than the Steyns and Hewitts. A pariah dog.

And apparently Billmon is finally this-time-for-real retiring.
The by far better man is gone. Gilliard does not compensate.

And I thought I was depressed yesterday.

Matthew Y.

Gentlemanly of you to link to Trevino. His argument might have been worth considering in 2001 or 2002; we will never know. But Iraq nullifies all this. And if this Trevino supported that invasion that is the only counterargument you need offer; it exposes his insincerity in fighting a "war on terror".

Likewise, Iraq nullifies any notion of a legitimate U.S. "interest" in engaging these proxy wars. While we are in Iraq we are a pariah nation and none of our military ventures, proxy or no, is legitimate.

So, Ethiopia's government must continue to reflect "its historic Christian identity" even if it's no longer a majority-Christian country?

I see.

The best way to obtain those suspects would have been to try to cooperate with the ICU in securing custody over them.

Sure, and it would have been in our interests to cooperate with the Taliban to secure custody over Bin Laden and Associates. But you've devolved into your own Green Lantern theory here, replacing "will" with "negotiation and cooperation." What happens when the other side wants more than we're willing to give, or we have nothing they want? Our only choices are to leave them alone or fight them.

This fetish for negotiation as the solution to all our problems seems just as much a smokescreen as what you allege to be the neo-con strategy of calling for more troops that they know won't appear to justify the Iraqi war. Them: "If only we had more troops or better rule of engagement or stronger will we'd have won!" You: "If only we'd negotiated harder or offered them more stuff we'd have settled this peacefully!"

Yes, yes, we never tried "seriously" negotiating with [ICU, North Korea, Iran, etc.] by offering them [diplomatic recognition, a free hand to effect the fates of other independent nations, a free hand to oppress their domestic foes, billions of dollars in aid, nuclear weapons, etc.]. We also never tried a draft, 500k+ troops in Iraq, and the summary execution/permanent imprisonment of the 10% or so of the population that might cool things down over there.

But leaving aside the questionable efficacy of either of these approaches, why not ask whether we should even try? The case that doing the above to Iraq is stupid, foolish, or immoral will seem obvious to you. Why isn't the case that offering enough in negotiations to convince various parties to do something we want would be the same?

Just because I have $30k to buy a car and one guy's got a used Yugo and the other a new Mercedes SLK doesn't mean there's a deal to be done. I can walk away and not drive, buy a piece of shit and feel like a fool, or get violent and steal the Benz. Each of these has a downside. "More negotiation" will not solve the problem.

Matt,

Part of Trevino's point was also that Ethiopia has ample reason to conduct this intervention sans any pressure or support from the United States. Given that Ethiopia was likely to invade anyway (and I don't think you've presented a compelling case that the US orchestrated the Ethiopian attack), negotiating with the ICU is a dead option.

So, the problem seems to me to be how to pursue US interests within the context of an Ethiopian-Somali war. You could make a case that strict neutrality is better than support for the dominant state in the region; I don't buy it, but you can make the case.

Without resorting to Trevino's Clash of Civilizations garbage, I think it's pretty easy to argue that a Somalia controlled by an Ethiopian backed government is better for US interests than a Somalia controlled by the ICU. I also think that you're substantially underplaying the risk posed by a low capacity state sympathetic to Islamic extremism; the risk isn't high enough to justify US intervention directly, but it does extend beyond the identification of a few terrorist suspects. I would never advocate direct US intervention to solve the problem, but hey, if the Ethiopians are going to be dealing with the situation anyway, why try to stop them?

Matthew Y:

If you do not support proxies, as a general rule, then your general rule is that you prefer: (i) direct action by the US (Iraq); (ii) action in concert with others (which has some of the same dangers as proxies, particularly when we ally with nations like Ethiopia); (iii) or no action at all. Logically, this strikes me as a general statement of preference for no action at all.

The risk with the current operaton, as you rightly point out, is that our hand will be visible throughout, and we will likely get blamed for any atrocities. But it is also clear that the Islamic Courts govenment was rather Taliban-like and the US had an interest in seeing that government face some difficulties. That interest was not so great that we should send our troops in. But it was, perhaps, large enough that regime change in Mogadishu would be a goal of US policy.

In other words, I find your rejection of the US approach far too categorical and a rejection of a policy tool something you should, perhaps, rethink.

Clearly, we must support the enemies of our enemies, whoever they may be. Hasn't that always worked out well before?

I think it's pretty easy to argue that a Somalia controlled by an Ethiopian backed government is better for US interests than a Somalia controlled by the ICU.

How convenient that there are no actual people living in Somalia--otherwise, we might be distracted by worrying about their interests too.

Yes, Ethiopia might have done it anyway. But there's obviously been a fair bit of prodding.

In other news, Trevino continues to be a pompous git with an addiction to haughty bullshit and a large lemon up his ass.

we have a compelling interest in the eradication of an Islamist state of any type, anywhere in the world.

Who is this 'we', kemo sabe? Also, I note the continued existence of Saudi Arabia.

This Trevino cat makes Hugh Hewitt seem reasonable by comparison, and that's saying something.

His rebuttal of Matt's post correctly identifies some false assumptions and addresses them on reality-based grounds and his own superior grasp of the facts on the ground... but his commentary is so thoroughly infused with his own wingnutty ideological false assumptions that he can't possibly be taken seriously. I'll even pay him the courtesy of quoting him directly rather than engaging in defamatory spin.

1. "The American rationale for this war is remarkably similar to the Ethiopian: we have a compelling interest in the eradication of an Islamist state of any type, anywhere in the world."

Note the characteristic wingnut inability to even consider the notion that a failed state torn by war, famine, refugee crises, and arms being smuggled to increasingly desperate Islamists to fight a foreign puppet government can be more detrimental to American interests than a stable Islamist regime (i.e. Afghanistan relative to Iran in the 1990s).

2. "The expressed fear now is that it will lead to a broader regional war: the worst-case scenario has Kenya joining Ethiopia against Somalia, as Eritrea and the Sudan intervene on the side of the Islamists... and various expeditionary forces from within and outside of Africa entering the fray... But from the American perspective, even this putative worst-case scenario is preferable to the actual worst-case scenario: an Islamist state, beyond the realm of law and justice, secure on the east African coast."

See, again, how he fails to note that the ICU and the Taliban arose and gained power from situations like the "putative" worst-case scenario. Like nearly all warbloggers, he fails to recognize that America was attacked on 9/11 not because the Taliban regime was secure, stable, and powerful (it wasn't) but because the Mujahadeen movement fed and nourished by a previous generation of American hawks gave birth to a violent non-state organization that attacked us by infiltrating our borders and using our own technology against us.

I could go on and on.

He also assumes that the result of an Ethiopian invasion will be victory and an Ethiopian proxy regime in Mogadishu (or wherever). I would, instead, suggest that recent Somali experience indicates that when large-scale fighting peters out there might be a nominal central government but the rest of the country will lapse back into the "failed state" it's been since the collapse of the Barre dictatorship back in '91-92.

I'm not sure if this is anything better than the present Islamic semichaos but it might be, so long as we don't get mired in support for our Ethiopian "ally".

If Star Trek were still in service, there'd be a Prime Directive episode any day now. Intervention in alien cultures is risky and unpredictable. There'd better be a really, really compelling reason to do it.

When the enemy was the Soviets, our allies were "anyone but the Communists." So the CIA engineered an Iranian coup and installed the Shah, who was eventually overthrown by....Islamists.

Now that Islamists are the enemy, the US is apparently propping up...anyone but the Islamists. I'm not convinced that the Ethiopians are any better, and the explanation, "They're not Islamists. QED." just doesn't cut it.

Yes, Trevino seems to believe that it's a swell idea to cultivate "a mostly-Christian power in a Muslim region" as our long-term ally, despite correctly noting that it's governed by a dysfunctional autocratic regime with a history of picking unwise battles. Plus, it's not like our current non-Islamic ally in the Middle East has been a pacifying influence.

The gist of it is that folks like Trevino view political Islam like a previous generation of wingnuts viewed communism, as a monolithic movement that can only be defeated by massive force, and that addressing this threat excuses all manner of atrocities and horrors: "Even if it strengthens the cruel grip of the likes of Meles Zenawi, the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia deserves our support." Welcome to El Salvador, compadre!

In the very particular case of providing temporary aid to Ethiopia against radical Islamists who have threatened it with Jihad, Trevino may well be right. When the meaningful alternatives are doing nothing or Iraq 2.0, proxy fighting can sometimes be the best of a series of bad options. But a totalizing philosophy of arming any and all non-Muslims against any and all Islamists everywhere would be utterly nuts.

I think we can make useful distinctions between "Islamist states of any kind", as Trevino describes it, and those with serious jihadist connections and aspirations, and involvement with violent militancy and terrorism. Some of the factions in this ICU movement seem to represent the niche of the global Islamist movement occupied by al-Qaeda and its like, and to be linked with suspects in the 1998 embassy bombings, though apparently it is hard to say how much since the ICU is a mixed coalition.

The US, in my opinion, does not have a compelling interest in getting rid of each and every kind of Islamic state and movement that comes along. But there are certainly groups who are actively involved in or sponsors of terrorism against Americans, and are therefore legitimate targets of the "global war on terror."

The best way to obtain those suspects would have been to try to cooperate with the ICU in securing custody over them.

This doesn't seem like a serious possibility, does it?

While I think many of the critiques in the comments reflect a certain misunderstanding of Matt's views, they appear to be of a generally more interesting and effective quality than usual. Good job people!

My only comments on this:
1) A diplomatic strategy should not depend too much on Negotiation & Cooperation - these are means, not the ends themselves. However, politicaly commentary does benefit from being grounded in the current political environment. We don't take negotiation and cooperation nearly seriously enough in the current administration or political punditocracy. They can be remarkably helpful tools. While it may seem that Matt places too much emphasis on them, he mostly (to me) seems to think that they are not used often enough now, and should be tried. I think that this is almost certainly true - both logically and based on our success in the past.

2) Doing "nothing" is often the best choice (particularly if one does not include negotiation, cooperation, infrastructure development, etc as doing something). In a real sense, every President from Truman through Reagan (yes, even Reagan) did nothing in response to the USSR. They did not attack it, they did not initiate a war. They engaged in proxy battles, they engaged in discussion. But they let Soviet Communism hang itself.

People who believe in Democracy need to remember how effective that strategy was. Not everything needs to be solved this minute, or even this decade. If we manage to slow the spread of the enemy, constrain their effective sphere of action where possible, a lot is accomplished. Seriously, Sharia law is undesirable. Letting these nations and people figure it out for themselves is sometimes the best plan.

This is a modern version of the grand strategy of the crusaders, which was to link up with Prester John, Christian king of Ethiopia, to attack the Musselmen.

I've been following the exchange between Yglesias and Trevino and posted comments on Hugh Hewitt's blog criticizing Trevino's attack on Matt's motives while generally agreeing with Trevino's perspective. I appreciate that in responding, Matt has not similarly attacked Trevino's motives (though regrettably, some commenters have).

The exchange has been educational. As I see it, the basic point of disagreement between Yglesias and Trevino is the usefulness of "proxys". I think it depends on the extent of the danger, and I think Matt may understimate the potential danger the ICU posed in Somalia as a beachead for expanding radical Islamists. Nonetheless Matt has a crucial point when it comes to the law of unintended consequences, which is precisely what has caused the Iraq debacle.

Nonetheless, what's done is done; the Ethiopians (as did the US in Iraq) have succeeded in routing the ICU militarily, a predictable result. As with the US, the Ethiopians should be careful what they wish for, however, lest they get it.

To yield to the delusional zealotry of Trevino reflects the same sort of flabbiness that yielded to the earlier war cries for attacking Iraq because of supposed WMDs or alleged Al Qaeda presence or whatever.

I regretfully followed your link to his post on “War in the Horn”. It turned out to be a revealing diatribe in support of the delusional strategy of using the corrupt and autocratic government of Meles Zenawi in Ethiopia as a proxy to pursue the hegemonic interests of the US in that region, ostensibly because of the alleged threat to US national interests posed by the possible creation of an “Islamist state” in Somalia.

The diatribe reeks of all the stereotypes about African society and politics parading as authoritative facts (he claims expertise based on a tourist visit to an Ethiopian hospital in 2003), but devoid of any subtlety in understanding the complex history and socio-economic dynamics of this particular region of Africa. Rather, the point of his argument is to compress that complexity into the straitjacket of a foreign policy based on the fundamental axioms of neoconservative ideology.

The following two quotes are a dead giveaway of the real agenda he’s promoting:

1. “Even if it strengthens the cruel grip of the likes of Meles Zenawi, the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia deserves our support.”

2. “We know what happens when those polities arise and endure: it has not been so very long since the fruits of the last one slaughtered thousands in our own streets.”

The cynical aversion in the first quote to any concern for human rights, democracy or other such issues in pursuit of some nebulous fight against “jihadism” should be transparent.

The travesty of the allusion in the second quote to the tragedy of the September 11 2001 attacks is that, in typical neocon fashion, it covers up the actual facts of the case, in order to support a fallacious policy. In fact, all but two of the attackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia and spawned by the culture and politics of that country. So, following on his logic, should Saudi Arabia (plus or instead of Afghanistan) have been targeted for invasion?

Trevino is using some really pathetic "facts" to refute Matt's points:

To disprove the point that "Non-Somali jihadists have not entered Somalia in significant numbers", Trevino cites this compelling evidence:

"residents saw several foreign Arab fighters disembarking from ships this week"

I didn't go through all of them, but he cites himself at least five times. who's lazy and dishonest?

Re: How convenient that there are no actual people living in Somalia--otherwise, we might be distracted by worrying about their interests too.

And it is in their interest to be ruled by a gang of theocratic fanatics?

Re: Plus, it's not like our current non-Islamic ally in the Middle East has been a pacifying influence.

Unlike Israel, Ethiopia has been in place for centuries longer than Islam has existed, No one in the region disputes the Ethiopians' claim to their own country at least.

I can finally read Trevino's post, and he makes a few good points. Matthew utterly misleads us when he says that Trevino agrees that "it is American policy to encourage Ethiopian intervention into Somalia and to use Ethiopia as a proxy to combat the Islamic Courts Union." Nowhere in Trevino's post does he saying anything at all about it being "American policy" to do so. He says it is in America's interest that the Islamists not rule Somalia. That is clearly not the same as "encourag[ing]" a war.

In fact, Trevino says exactly what I have been saying - Matthew continues to ignore that it is the Somali Islamists that initiated the present campaign. Trevino even quotes today's NYTimes on the subject:

The [Somali] Islamists came to power earlier this year as a grassroots movement that drove out Mogadishu’s warlords and restored a semblance of order to a city that was once one of the most violent on the planet. But the goodwill they earned is being sapped away by their decision to attack the transitional government and declare a holy war against Christian-led Ethiopia. That provoked a crushing counterattack by the Ethiopians...

Given that Matthew has written a lot on the topic, I think it is pretty clear by now that Matthew is deliberately ignoring this point, since it undermines his obvious partisanship. It really is unfortunate that a member of the Reality-Based Community deliberately ignores reality. That's what partisanship does, unfortunately - come back to the Reality Based Community, Matthew! (It's not that hard, Matthew - you just need to completely reverse everything you've written on the topic so far, and acknowledge that American policy has nothing to do with the current Ethiopian campaign, which was provoked by the Somali Islamists actions and which Ethiopia is undertaking for its own reasons.)

I'll also note that I completely agree with Trevino (and some of the commenters above) that Matthew's apparent belief in ability to negotiate everything is completely naive.

I will note, though, that I disagree completely with Trevino that we need to battle Islamists everywhere. I am prefectly willing to support Islamist rule of a country provided three things - (1) the Islamists are duly elected and therefore represent the wishes of the people of the country, (2) the Islamists maintain democratic structures so they can be duly voted out of office if the people don't like their policies, and (3) the Islamists don't associate with terrorists. Perhaps Trevino thinks those conditions aren't possible, but I don't see why not.

Yes, please pull us back from the brink of partisanship, Al. What a fucking joke.

Al's wee diatribes don't get much funnier than this:

it is the Somali Islamists that initiated the present campaign

God, that's delightful. In fact, the Somali Islamists "initiated the present campaign" in very much the same way that Afghanistan's Islamists "initiated" the Soviet invasion in 1979.

I've long maintained that Al is a standard issue Stalinist hack. But it's awfully polite of him to make the case for it himself, more or less explicitly. The tragedy is he wasn't born in a totalitarian society, where he could have used his talents to their fullest. In the Soviet Union he would have been editor of Pravda, but here he only gets to bloviate online.

Dylan, your comparison completely breaks down.

But leaving aside the questionable efficacy of either of these approaches, why not ask whether we should even try? The case that doing the above to Iraq is stupid, foolish, or immoral will seem obvious to you. Why isn't the case that offering enough in negotiations to convince various parties to do something we want would be the same?

Because negotiation involves words being exchanged rather than bombs. The downside of launching failed wars is obvious, while on the other hand failed negotiations probably have the upside of demonstrating who's acting in good faith. Sure, if you have offered too much then there's a downside, but, with Iran for example, we haven't offered anything at all--we've refused to even talk to them. Compared to the neurotic silent treatment we give some of our foes, further negotiation has no downside whatsoever.

Maybe that's less true in the case of Somalia, but you did mention Iran in your comment...

And it is in their interest to be ruled by a gang of theocratic fanatics?

Oh, so occupation by a foreign autocrat's armies is for their own good. The Ethiopians are probably being greeted as liberators. I'll break out the purple finger ink.

See, this is what keeps us in so many messes. "Oh, yeah? So you'd rather have Saddam in power? He was a brutal tyrant who gassed his own people!" Because, no matter how much we screw things up, he had a gambling problem! Call it the Homer Simpson School of Foreign Policy.

No, it's probably not actually in their interest to be ruled by a gang of theocratic fanatics, any more than it's in our interest to be ruled by a gang of theocratic fanatics (Brownback '08!). Yet I don't think I'd welcome an invasion by the armies of a repressive Mexican president hellbent on conquest, even so. Likewise, I don't think it's intrinsically better for Somalians to be conquered by Ethiopia, especially Muslim Somalians.

There's also still an element here of openly standing close to someone whacking a hornets' nest. I've always been confused about how casting the War on Terror as a religious crusade makes us less likely to be terrorism targets.

poor Trevino, reduced to be a substitute at a nutjobs blog. Can anyone think of a person of so little accomplishment that has such an enormous ego? Trevino is the P. Diddy of the blogosphere. Maybe he should be J. Taci.

Given the disaster in Iraq, American policy in Africa is really a case not of "what should we do" but of "who do we we root for?" Arguments for or against certain courses of reasonable American foreign policy action must presuppose an administration that isn't utterly discredited, incompetent, and petulant. We're not there yet.

Try to ensure that we do nothing else significant anywhere until this crew is gone: what else is there? Cynical? Sure. Wrong? No.

"...we have a compelling interest in the eradication of an Islamist state of any type, anywhere in the world."

Remember the domino theory!
It may not have worked out as expected in SE Asia, but that was one of
* the damn liberal media's fault
* proof of the correctness of going to war in Vietnam
depending on the weather.

Our government seems incapable of not screwing up foreign affairs. Is there any isolationist movement left in this country? I want to join it.


Comments closed January 11, 2007.

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