Grill or Broil?

I was cooking swordfish with a friend last night, and her fish cookbook (James Peterson's Fish & Shellfish) makes the following observation:

Although grilling and broiling are similar techniques—in some parts of the United States the two words are used interchangeably—grilling is used here to mean cooking over, but not in contact with, the heat source. Broiling is cooking under the heat source.

Here's the question: Which parts of the United States? Perhaps the southeast which is really the region I don't know anyone from. Initially, we thought we couldn't think of any examples of people using "broil" to mean "grill" or vice versa, but Burger King does refer to its burgers as "flame broiled" when I would say they're grilled.

Comments

I understand the basketball posts on a political forum. But this is like a parody of randomness.

Matt, you fucking killed casual posting.

Posted by A different matt | January 7, 2007 7:35 PM

Well, hear is Boston we talk about Grill and Broil different. I don't eat any meet and relly I dont associate with meat eaters. But sometimes I do grill some vegetables. Anyway, broil and grill are similar, can't deny that. Meet eater's and neocons are similar too.

Posted by hillary for president | January 7, 2007 7:37 PM

Outdoors, if you cook over an open flame or coals it's broiling. Flame position has nothing to do with it.

Posted by TJ | January 7, 2007 7:41 PM

I hope to god that "hillary for president" is making some sort of subtle joke. Or is high.

Posted by ljlkkj | January 7, 2007 7:50 PM

Never thought about it till now, but on the south side of Chicago we used the terms the way your books does.

Posted by Pudentilla | January 7, 2007 7:56 PM

No way TJ. If you cook outdoors over an open flame, its grilling. The thing you are cooking on is called a grill.

I will also disagree with Peterson. The flame in an outdoor grill does at times make contact with the food. When this happens, it continues to be called grilling. What would Peterson call it then? "Burning" or somesuch?

To me, broiling is cooking under very high heat by convection. I really don't know how you could cook "under" heat other than this manner. Right? Can you put some food under a fire and therby cook it?

My oven has a "broil" setting. When I turn that on, the top cooker thing gets really hot and the bottom one is off. GE manufactured my oven. I suppose they know what they are talking about. In sum, grilling and broiling are totally fucking different. That said, swordfish should at all times be braised and then roasted.

Posted by MP | January 7, 2007 8:02 PM

Where? Most everywhere. Maybe not technically, but in terms of general use the two words are used interchangeably everywhere within the Continental United states. Perhaps it's just a class issue, and Matt is jut out of touch. It wouldn't be the first time.

Posted by Soullite | January 7, 2007 8:05 PM

Didn't Burger King ditch their "flame broiled" slogan sometime ago? I thought they now used the more correct term "fire grilled."

Posted by Eric | January 7, 2007 8:21 PM

Grilling above or upon heat. Broilling under heat. The difference is where the dribbling fat goes, closer or farther from the heat, cooking/burning on the hot plate vs. going away.

Taste different and the effect on your arteries is also quite different...

Posted by Fifi | January 7, 2007 8:23 PM

Where? Most everywhere. Maybe not technically, but in terms of general use the two words are used interchangeably everywhere within the Continental United States. Perhaps it's just a class issue, and Matt is just out of touch. It wouldn't be the first time.

Refering to what the book calls "grilling" as "broiling" might be common in some places. But I don't think anyone refers to what the book calls "broiling" as "gilling".

Anyway, the book's definition is inadequate. If you cook your meat on a spit above and not in contact with the heat source, it is not grilling - it's spit roasting. What makes something grilling - indoors or outdoors - is surely that the heat source is used to heat some metal, which is in direct contact with the meat. And the metal has to be a grill or gridiron of some kind that allows juices and fat to drip. Cooking on a griddle is also not grilling - although people do refer to a certain popular sandwich as "grilled cheese" as opposed to "griddled cheese".

Posted by Dan Kervick | January 7, 2007 8:59 PM

When I'm outside on a hot sunny day I tend to refer to a "broiling" heat, but never a "grilling" one. Which would tend to reinforce the account of "broiling" as "cooking under heat."

Posted by live | January 7, 2007 9:16 PM

I cook my frozen fish sideways, with a microwave. I call it "nuking."

Posted by bob mcmanus | January 7, 2007 9:32 PM

Burger King puts their burgers on a conveyor belt that rolls through gas burners on top and under the belt, cooking the burgers on both sides at the same time. So they are both grilled and broiled.

Posted by Kiril | January 7, 2007 10:00 PM

I'd back up Dan K's comments. I'd also like the fishmongers in MP's area to unite in refusing to sell him an unsustainable treat like swordfish until he learns to cook it properly.

Braised? It's not a fucking lamb shank. It's a beautiful, meaty steak. Would you braise-roast a porterhouse?

And I thought Al had some fucked-up opinions.

(it goes without saying that that goes double for "nuke" mcmanus, but he's a cranky old codger, so it hardly matters)

Posted by JRoth | January 7, 2007 10:14 PM

Burger King's "broiler" has a conveyor belt that sends the burgers through a gauntlet of flame on both top and bottom. I remember seeing this in action a long time ago, but seemingly nowadays every burger BK serves comes out of a steam drawer. I guess "drawer steamed" won't be part of Bk's advertising anytime soon.

Posted by Michael Joyner | January 7, 2007 10:27 PM

I want to know what "roasting" means. Spit-roasting seems clear enough, but the general term "roasting" is in need of clarification from my point of view.

I do subscribe to the grill equals above heat, broil equals below heat theory of cooking. That, again, is based on the settings on my oven.

Don't forget to leave the door cracked open when broiling, otherwise your oven might kick into "cleaning" mode, lock the door, and prevent you from opening it until it has cooled down to a certain temperature. This tends to ruin food in a big way.

Don't ask how I know this.....

Posted by abject funk | January 7, 2007 10:28 PM

I hope to god that "hillary for president" is making some sort of subtle joke. Or is high.

I took it as making a pass at Matthew.

Posted by Al | January 7, 2007 10:32 PM

I don't know about grilled vs broiled, what difference does it make if the fat is not allowed to drain away or if, as with most ovens, a broiler plate is used and the fat drains away but does not reach the heat source? I always thought the difference was temperature. Broiling involves temps around 500 while BBQ grills cook slow and low. In any case, swordfish steaks should be smoked when possible. It adds the most flavor to the meat. Also, I am aware of a technique that involves wrapping fish like trout in wet leaves or clay and actually putting the package under the coals of the fire. Is this broiling or grilling? I don't know.

Posted by Just Karl | January 7, 2007 11:17 PM

Huge difference. You need a broiler to get that tasty crunchy top on a good mac and cheese.

Posted by daveNYC | January 8, 2007 12:10 AM

Karl, I think you're getting BBQ and grilling mixed up. They are most certianly two different things, even if popular usage tends to mix up the terms. Grilling refers to direct head source, while Barbeque is low and slow, cooking with indirect heat. Smoke can be involved with either, but it is necessary for barbeque. I mean, you can cook a pork shoulder in your oven at 200 degrees for 10 hours, but it won't be barbequed.

Now, I've got a cast iron grill pan that gives me a pretty decent approxomation of grilling when the weather isn't cooperating (or when I'm too damn lazy). Now I might call a piece of fish I cooked on there "grilled", but I'd say that if you want to get technical, that's being a bit disingenuous.

Posted by Mac | January 8, 2007 1:48 AM

Here in the Slithy Toves we combine broiling and grilling to get brillig. My borogroves come out about as mimsey as you could want them.

Microwaving works well too.

Posted by Njorl | January 8, 2007 2:05 AM

"I hope to god that "hillary for president" is making some sort of subtle joke. Or is high."

I think it's just a perfect example of the IQ level that would think nominating HRC is a good idea...

Posted by Petey | January 8, 2007 2:10 AM

And no wonder mcmanus is perma-cranky. Microwaving fish? Jeebus. Do you eat canned peas and carrots with that?

Posted by Petey | January 8, 2007 2:12 AM

I remember seeing this in action a long time ago, but seemingly nowadays every burger BK serves comes out of a steam drawer.

Well, where do you think they go after they come off the grill? At least that's how we did it six or seven years ago when I worked there. I seriously doubt they cook them in a steam drawer, even now.

Posted by Christopher M | January 8, 2007 2:18 AM

You're a beemish boy, Njorl.

Soullite,

I've never heard of anyone who knows anything about cooking using "broiling" & "grilling" interchangably. They are clearly very different things.

Posted by Samba00 | January 8, 2007 2:44 AM

You broil in the kitchen, you grill on the patio. That's my take.

Posted by Steve | January 8, 2007 2:44 AM

"I remember seeing this in action a long time ago, but seemingly nowadays every burger BK serves comes out of a steam drawer.

Well, where do you think they go after they come off the grill? At least that's how we did it six or seven years ago when I worked there. I seriously doubt they cook them in a steam drawer, even now."

I didn't mean to imply that the flame broiler was no longer in use, or even that steam tables don't have their uses. What I do mean to imply is that it hard to get a burger at BK (or really at any fast food place) these days that doesn't taste tired and warmed over, like it has spent too much time in a steam drawer. This happens even at peak times. The fast food industry wants to increase their speed and it seems their solution is to cook vast quantities ahead of time and just assemble the order when it comes in. To facilitate this, the "new" (within the last decade) recipe for BK's fries has some sort of coating that allows it to sit for much longer than unadulterated fries while still remaining deceptively crispy. Crispy, but vile and dessicated.

Apparently, after reading this thread:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?s=28156afd6d6051b877547f5ca6603d1f&showtopic=29330&st=30&p=403534&#entry403534

you can specify your order to be "off the broiler" and get a fresh burger.

Posted by Michael Joyner | January 8, 2007 3:18 AM

I do know that "steamed" and "grilled" are synonymous in upstate New York.

Posted by Jacob | January 8, 2007 3:18 AM

In England they don't use the term broil at all, and they use grill instead -- ovens have grills at the top, recipes tell you to put things under the grill. They don't seem to confuse this with outside barbeques because, I think they call those barbeques or something. I found this massively confusing.

In America I have never heard anyone use grill to refer to the high top-heat oven broil thing, only to the barbeque or to one of those ridgey pans that's supposed to simulate it.

Posted by daw | January 8, 2007 8:08 AM

You live in Washington, D.C. and do not know anyone from the Southeast? You travel in a pretty insular crowd, eh?

Posted by dwight Meredith | January 8, 2007 8:31 AM

You live in Washington, D.C. and do not know anyone from the Southeast? You travel in a pretty insular crowd, eh?

Remember, we Southerners don't wear shoe-leather and tend to spit our chaw on the floor, so we're probably not allowed in the same places where MY & Co. hang out.

Posted by Anderson | January 8, 2007 9:33 AM

I was cooking swordfish with a friend last night

The parasitic worms commonly found in swordfish can reach three feet in length. Just thought you'd want to know :)

Posted by Peter | January 8, 2007 9:57 AM

Out here on the West Coast, I think we tend to fall in line with the generic Grill=Outside, Broil=Inside school of thought. I never even really considered anything else.

I just checked and in my garage I have a Weber Grill (and the website also offers grills). My oven has a broil setting. And my toaster oven dubs itself a "Cuisinart Classic Toaster Oven Broiler." I would also say Whoppers are definately broiled.

Posted by ben | January 8, 2007 11:54 AM

You live in Washington, D.C. and do not know anyone from the Southeast? You travel in a pretty insular crowd, eh?

Wait a minute. MY took a fairly famous tour of North Carolina last year.

Posted by Ethel-to-Tilly | January 8, 2007 12:35 PM

Go to his book on soups:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0471391360/

Search for eel, and click on the link for page 258. Best vivisection desciption ever.

Posted by Sam Penrose | January 8, 2007 12:36 PM

What about gyros?

Posted by T | January 8, 2007 1:15 PM

Actually Matt, according to the scientists at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, you really shouldn't be eating swordfish at all -- there is some sustainably caught US swordfish, but the stocks really have been depleted and if you don't know who caught it and how, it's to be avoided: http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/content/media/MBA_SeafoodWatch_NationalGuide.pdfc

also, it's got a lot of mercury in it.

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