My first reaction upon hearing the news was "fuck Pat Riley," but to offer a more measured take it seems mighty convenient for Pat Riley to be taking health-related leave now that his team is once again bad. Riley's obviously got some skills as a coach, but he's also a serious scumbag.
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How Convenient
03 Jan 2007 03:35 pm
Comments (46)
Why is he a scumbag? Seriously. I'm not a Riley apologist, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would qualify him as a scumbag.
What? And Stan Van Gundy's not getting his job back?
Come on Petey, knee and hip surgeries liek this are generally elective and scheduled at the patients convenience. Not how often you hear about other coaches doing this in the offseason.
Now I'll grant that it is possible Riley had intended to wait to deal with this until the Summer but it simpy became unbearable. But given the way he shafted Van Gundy before the benefit of the doubt is on Matt's side of the argument. With the burden of proof of a criminal trial you'd aquit Riley, it was a civil suit the preponderance of evidence tilts aginst him:-)
LFVB,
Exhibit 1, the '90s Knicks.
Exhibit 2, ask Stan Van Gundy.
I wonder where he stands on the all-time wins list, because the losses the team would incur in his absence, I'm fairly sure, won't count toward his total.
I know, Petey--the very insinuation is totally offensive. Why would we ever think that any person, let alone an NBA coach, would play up his physical ailments/illness in a politically/personally convenient manner?!
What? And Stan Van Gundy's not getting his job back?
That was my first reaction too.
You have to recall not only the way he "nudged" SVG out of the Heat coaching job, but the way Riley abandoned the job in the first place. When the going gets tough, Pat Riley leaves you in the lurch.
Yeah, I bet if his wife was going through excruciating cancer treatments or if he had a kid dying of some terrrible malady the rat-bastard would up and leave to be with them. Motherfucker! What a creep. I say we hang him, taunting as the noose is tightened around his neck: "Shaq-tada, Shaq-tada, Shaq-tada!!!" Somebody needs to make an example of him, now!!
just so I can get a feel for the scale here, how do you feel about bob knight?
"I know, Petey--the very insinuation is totally offensive. Why would we ever think that any person, let alone an NBA coach, would play up his physical ailments/illness in a politically/personally convenient manner"
Occam's Razor argues against having multiple surgeries for PR reasons. You go into rehab for PR reasons.
And it doesn't make sense from a bunch of other perspectives. Who cares how the Heat are doing in January anyway? If the Heat get knocked out in the first round, do you think Riley will get better press because he missed 5 games in January?
The insinuation isn't offensive. It's just kinda ignorant.
I'd take a violent sociopath over a total sleazebag sell-out any day.
"You have to recall not only the way he "nudged" SVG out of the Heat coaching job, but the way Riley abandoned the job in the first place. When the going gets tough, Pat Riley leaves you in the lurch."
So, let's see. Mourning goes down with the bad kidney before the 2000 season, killing Miami's title hopes. Riley coaches 3 more years, including two years in a row where the Heat finish deep in the lottery. Riley "abandons the job" before the 2003 season, saying that he thinks the rebuilding process is pretty much accomplished. The Heat then proceed to make the playoffs and win a series the year Riley "abandons" them.
O.......K.......
...and now that Miami is good again, Riley fires his former good buddy Van Gundy to take over the team and ride them to a title.
Occam's Razor argues against having multiple surgeries for PR reasons. You go into rehab for PR reasons.
Occam's Razor argues that you can time the surgeries for PR reasons. If you are going to have them anyway, better to do it now so you don't have to go through surgery AND a losing record as head coach.
And it doesn't make sense from a bunch of other perspectives. Who cares how the Heat are doing in January anyway? If the Heat get knocked out in the first round, do you think Riley will get better press because he missed 5 games in January?
Um, he's only going to miss 5 games? I thought he'd be out for the rest of the season, at least. Do you have any info on how long he'll be out?
"I thought he'd be out for the rest of the season, at least. Do you have any info on how long he'll be out?"
Via Hoopshype:
Riley insisted he would return this season, but declined to offer a timetable. Lakers coach Phil Jackson was sidelined for a month following a preseason hip replacement.
Gregg Popovich.
That is all.
While I assume the Riley is scheduling the surgery because his team is bad now (esp. with Wade hurt too), so long as he comes back in a reasonable time frame - i.e., a month or so - I don't there can be any accusation that Riley screwed them over with his surgery. Some poor schlub will have to sit through a bunch of games as head coach where Dorrell Wright is the best Heat player on the floor, but that doesn't really bother me too much. Nobody's going to blame the interim coach for a poor season if Riley coaches the vast majority of the games.
Is there some Knicks-related bitterness here too, to go with the nudging out of Stan van Gundy?
"Gregg Popovich."
I appreciate the parallel for this reason:
I hate Popovich and the Spurs in much the same way that Matthew hates Riley and the Heat. But I'd never say that the way Popovich hired himself to be coach at the most advantageous moment makes him a scumbag. The only perspective that matters is that of a fan of that particular team, and from that perspective, Popovich hired the exact right guy when he hired himself.
If folks want to hate on Riley for irrational reasons, be my guest. But don't twist reality to support the hate. Irrational hatreds can thrive quite nicely without needing any outside support.
Early in the decade, Riley kept coaching for several years after the team disintegrated. He turned the team over to SVG after the ship had been righted, and left SVG in charge after Shaq entered the building. In terms of timing his exit then, Riley was almost perfectly the anti-Popovich.
And from the perspective of a Miami fan, Riley did the exact correct thing when he fired SVG and re-hired himself. SVG hadn't been able to get it done the year before, and Shaq thought SVG had horribly mismanaged the team in regards to injuries. After he re-hired himself, Riley won a title with a squad most punters didn't think had a chance. In other words, he made the right decision.
"Is there some Knicks-related bitterness here too, to go with the nudging out of Stan van Gundy?"
I think the only folks who cared in the least about SVG-gate were already Knick-based Riley haters searching for sophistical arguments.
Popovich did pretty much hose Bob Hill, no other way to spin it. Under Hill with David Robinson the Spurs were one of the best teams in the West. The year Robinson gets hurt they suck and get the #1 pick.
Winning the title under Popovich with a healthy Robinson and Duncan doesn't in any way prove that they wouldn't have done the same under Hill.
"Winning the title under Popovich with a healthy Robinson and Duncan doesn't in any way prove that they wouldn't have done the same under Hill."
No, but Hill failed to win several playoff series when he had home court advantage. And he failed to even make the Finals the year he had the best record in the association.
I hate Popovich for a wide variety of mainly irrational reasons, but I respect him. Dude's got three rings. The basic concept isn't to treat Bob Hill nicely - it's to win championships. And Popovich did that.
And Hill, who by this logic we should like since he got "hosed", is an independently verifiable moron and douchebag. And I mean literally a douchebag, not figuratively. When Bob Hill enters the room, Doug Feith is no longer the stupidest man present.
Of course Bob Hill never had Tim Duncan for any of those playoff series...
Nice of Riley to leave an opening for him to return if the Heat gets it back together. Maybe he'll pull a Coach K and have the season expunged from his record.
"Of course Bob Hill never had Tim Duncan"
And it's a good thing he didn't, otherwise Duncan would've ended up as the Big Douchebag rather than the Big Fundamental.
I dunno you Eric, but you've gotta be either perverse or a pretty dim bulb if you want to tout the mad skillz of Bob Hill.
Petey, thanks for taking Pop and running with it. It wasn't so much that he canned Hill (who is indeed a douchebag, I'm not sure why this is so, but I remember him routinely annoying me in possibly Coughlin-esque ways), but, much like Dick Cheney, he cast his net far and wide and discovered that the best person for the job is..."Me." (This was slimey when Riles did it, but less so because given his rings, there was at least some reason to believe that Riley was the best guy for the job. Pop has turned out to be quite good, but firing a guy to give yourself your first head coaching job?)
Is it possible, for the sake of the benefit of the doubt, that Riles was trying to "tough it out" through the season and simply couldn't do it? Sure, maybe he could have done it before the season, but if we look at our fathers, (or for Howard, ourselves...I kid the older guy...) I think we can see that getting old and falling apart doesn't happen on any sort of schedule...
ah, pooh, i was out and just sat down in front of the computer and was reading through this thread and thinking i don't have much to add here - and you sucked me in! (as it happens, i've been falling apart since i was young - seriously flat and pronated feed putting strain on my knees and back, poor eyesight, stuff like that, so there's no further discernible decline in my case!)
but since you have sucked me in: yes, riley left the knicks in a scummy way, and maybe he could have treated stan van gundy better, but to me, that hardly makes him a scumbag.
and yes, popovich certainly struck me as an ass when he fired hill and picked himself, but given that he's turned out to be the right choice, i can hardly begrudge him that, either.
and finally, yes, i'd say that riley had every intention of seeing this season through and just plain couldn't - happens with players so why shouldn't it happen with coaches?
PS. i did notice that his last act was to suspend antoine and posey for not being in sufficient shape!
PS. i did notice that his last act was to suspend antoine and posey for not being in sufficient shape!
Fat and injured are not always the same thing. (And yes, Shaq gets away with it because he's still effective fat. Toine? Not so much.)
even shaq was in better shape under riley than he had been at the end in LA; riley says that antoine is in the best shape of his career but he didn't meet some unspecified goal.
riley says that antoine is in the best shape of his career but he didn't meet some unspecified goal.
Hrm, that sounds like this, no?
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
Well, the rumor is that Riley injured his knee after kicking a locker following the Heat's pitiful showing against Orlando the other night. If it's true, I don't think it's either convenient or suggestive of a man who's quitting on his team. In fact, it's the exact opposite.
Petey, just curious... What are the "mainly irrational reasons" you hate Popovich?
(For the record, as a Spurs fan from the post-Gervin retirement era -- when it was Frank Brickowski's team -- on, I thought Pop was a bastard for how he picked himself, but Bob Hill really was terrible, and I soon came to think Pop was the perfect person to build and run a team in a place like San Antonio.)
As any Knicks fan already knows - the guy is most definitely scum. 3 straight playoff victories over that guy's old Mourning-led Heat still hasn't made me forgive him any more for ripping up a contract and jumping ship in a backdoor deal so shady the Heat had to give up their first round pick as a penalty. The guy is a craven opportunist - the Stan Van Gundy coup was just another example.
"Petey, just curious... What are the "mainly irrational reasons" you hate Popovich?"
The military background and bearing. The association with David 'gump-ass bitch' Robinson. The hiring of PJ Carlissimo.
While I have learned that Popavich is a decent Democrat, the dude just feels like a Republican to me.
Gilbert Arenas is one icy motherfucker.
The last 7 seconds of the 'zards/Bucks game are scary. And it's not even the shot - it's his whole attitude as he brought the ball up court.
Actually, my favorite part of the article is this:
Riley was asked if the knee injury, or its severity, stems in any way from the time last week when he allegedly kicked a locker room door following a loss in Chicago.
As a Bulls fan, call me proud.
you really can't argue with three championships (pop) or even one (larry), because there's no better outcome. so i can't see knocking coaches who take over and the DELIVER where so many others fail. it may just be luck or timing, but there's no way to prove that. it's like arguing against jackson's greatness. there is pretty no better outcome than what jackson has achieved, so he's got to be great, regardless of who he's coaching.
as for agent zero, that is literally one of my favorite last second shots of all time. you're sure he's going to take another dribble, instead he jacks up the three from way outside the ark and then . . . turns and walks away growling long before the ball goes through the net (you can see this from certain angles on replay). nuts -- turning is way cooler than throwing up your hands just as you see the ball go in, and i love when players act like they deserved that, it's not something to celebrate wildly, that's how it was supposed to end.
Petey, you need to take a break from politics.
Matt - If you think Riles will leave you in the lurch, get a load of Nick "I will not be the coach at Alabama" Saban!
From ESPN's NBA Rumor Central:
Speaking on his weekly radio show on WQAM, coach Pat Riley said of his decision to leave the team to address knee and hip problems, "If we were 25-2, would I have done it? Probably not."
Nice.
Just have to say, Steve Duncan's "Shaq-tada!" comment almost made me spit out my water from laughing.
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Comments closed January 17, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
Jesus Shaquille Christ. The dude is going to have knee and hip surgery, and you accuse him of faking due to his team's record?
Posted by Petey | January 3, 2007 3:44 PM