The Third Man

Trying to think of something novel to say about last night's debut of the Melo-Iverson Supernuggets, what I've got is that insofar as this team proves successful (beating Memphis is neither here nor there) it'll be because you're really looking at a three-headed monster here, not a duo. Marcus Camby is, when healthy, a very good true center in an era when true centers are in short supply. Last night he offered 17 points on 6-11 shooting. He pulled down 17 boards. He blocked three shots, had two steals, three assists, and zero turnovers. And he's the anchor of the defense. And defense is crucial to Denver's success. They rank high on points scored and points allowed measures because they play at a super-fast pace, but at least up until the debut of the superstar duo they've been better at defensive efficiency than offensive efficiency.

The point, at any rate, is that not only is that a lot of production, but it's production very few guys in this league can offer. Only Dikembe Mutombo in limited minutes and acknowledged star Dwight Howard have higher rebound rates, Camby's better than Howard on the defense end, and while he's not a stellar scorer he's not an offensive liability either.

Comments

Matt, who you picking in the Phoenix/Washington matchup tonight? For my part, I'm bankning on number 14 in a row for the Suns

Posted by UofAZGrad | January 23, 2007 8:27 AM

"insofar as this team proves successful ... it'll be because you're really looking at a three-headed monster here, not a duo."

Most definitely. Camby is crucial.

As with Mourning and Mutumbo, having a bona-fide shot blocker who can stay out of foul trouble does incredible things to the psyche of the opposing team. Drives to the basket suddenly don't seem as appealing.

Imagine if Camby wore a 'zards uniform. Washington would actually be a serious team.

"and while he's not a stellar scorer he's not an offensive liability either."

He's not an offensive liability while playing with a visibly painful broken finger on his shooting hand. A healthy Camby during the playoff run is a baseline requirement for the Nuggets to be able to play with the big boys of the West.

Posted by Petey | January 23, 2007 8:52 AM

Their next game, Friday night in Utah, will be a good test. After that, they host the Suns on the 5th (the scalpers will make a killing) and don't have a tough stretch until late Feb when they have visit the Spurs followed by a back-to-back with Utah and Dallas. I'd be surprised if Denver hasn't overtaken the Jazz in the standings by then.

Posted by Bragan | January 23, 2007 8:58 AM

"Their next game, Friday night in Utah, will be a good test."

The actual next game, a road back-to-back tonight in Seattle will be a decent first test before Utah.

"don't have a tough stretch until late Feb ... I'd be surprised if Denver hasn't overtaken the Jazz in the standings by then."

I loved Carmelo's post-game interview where the only thing he seemed interested in talking about was how he thought they could pick up "10 out of the next 13".

Posted by Petey | January 23, 2007 9:04 AM

Blake looked wonderful out there with Iverson and Melo, despite a lousy shooting game. 12 assists against one turnover.

Matthew should be looking for recipes for crow right about now.

Posted by Al | January 23, 2007 10:06 AM

Maybe this is belaboring the obvious, but I didn't appreciate what a matched set Iverson and Anthony are until I saw the photos from last night's game. The sleeve, the headband, the cornrows, the tattoos.

I will say again, Joakim Noah's upside potential looks like Marcus Camby. He's a good athlete, could rebound and block shots, has no offensive game to speak of but will pick up some points on offensive boards and by running the floor.

Posted by Dix Hill | January 23, 2007 10:10 AM

young man, maybe you ought to learn what a "true center" is: he is someone with a low-post game on offense (ok, 50 years ago, he could have been someone with a high post game on offense).

camby is an excellent rebounder and shot-blocker and a pretty good clean-up guy in terms of put-backs and those are plenty fine virtues, but a true 5 he ain't.

Posted by howard | January 23, 2007 10:46 AM

Agree with howard. But Camby isn't your typical non-true 5 either i.e. a 4 pressed into service in the middle. He's sort of unclassifiable.

It just occured to me how awesome the Iverson-Camby combo would have sounded back in 1996.

Posted by JP | January 23, 2007 10:49 AM

JP, i remember when Camby was at UMass, and Bob Ryan wrote "he's not a 3, he's not a 4, he's not a 5, he's just an outstanding basketball player."

Posted by howard | January 23, 2007 11:07 AM

Matthew should be looking for recipes for crow right about now.

Fuck Steve Blake. Seriously. Worst player in the league. I could dominate against Memphis.

Posted by Matthew Yglesias | January 23, 2007 11:21 AM

Gee Matt, Blake is a serviceable point guard, not a superstar, but he can bring the ball up and pass. Worst player in the league? I don't see that. The Nugs need role players like Blake to complement their big guns. I don't know what you have against him.

Posted by beyond_left_right | January 23, 2007 11:25 AM

"I could dominate against Memphis."

The most impressive part of Blake's game against Memphis wasn't even the 12 assists. It was his defensive shutdown on Mike Miller. He denied and annoyed Miller on possession after possession, and ended up holding Miller to one of his worst games of the season.

Posted by Petey | January 23, 2007 11:28 AM

I could dominate against Memphis.

This event will take place right after the "Beat the Shit out of Every Sixty Year Old Man" event.

That said, Yglesias is right: Blake's main value is that he can be used as part of a strategy to punish an actual NBA player by restricting that player's playing time. As for the assists--Iverson, 'Melo, and Smith, recall--not only could I get 12 assists playing for the Nuggets, it's quite possible that I could get 12 assists just by watching them play.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | January 23, 2007 11:37 AM

Even if Matthew could dominate against Memphis, could he be adequate against Houston, as Blake was? It will be interesting to see if Blake stays in the starting lineup.

(Also, all the snarky comments I make on Matthew's posts, and THIS is the one he gets pissed about?)

Posted by Al | January 23, 2007 11:59 AM

Ah, fond memories come to me of AI making Theo Ratliff look like a scorer. A mobile big man who can catch the ball and hit 9/10 dunks can make a living for himself on the offensive boards when Iverson draws the triple team and tosses up a prayer. Camby and Iverson were made for eachother.

On the other end of the court, Iverson is a defensive liability unless he gambles. Camby is a great asset in the way he makes up for lost gambles of his teammates.

Posted by Njorl | January 23, 2007 12:40 PM

you've become unbalanced. blake looks like a pretty good fit because he's way more of a true point than most points because he can't really score. and that's exactly what the nuggets need -- someone honestly content to deliver the ball to everyone else, and just run around doing scrappy things. which blake is well suited to do. regardless whether he can play an D, doesn't matter, because the nuggets don't play D, so they're not giving anything up on that front by playing blake.

Posted by dj superflat | January 23, 2007 1:10 PM

That's just got to be a fake Matt who made that comment. "Fuck Steve Blake" is just not his sophisticated, Harvard-educated writing style. It's pretty funny though.

Posted by MQ | January 23, 2007 1:29 PM

"On the other end of the court, Iverson is a defensive liability unless he gambles."

Iverson can't match up due to height and weight, but he actually compensates pretty damn well in other ways.

He's among the league elite in gambling. And he does a nice job of disrupting around screens.

Plus, I'd guess he leads the league in the number of non-charge offensive fouls he draws. Pretty much every game he'll draw a couple of push-offs he gets by crowding players.

Of course, due to his insane minutes and due to his offensive responsibilities, he'll rest for chunks on defense. But when he's playing full speed, he finds ways to bring back pretty much the same amount he costs you due to his size.

Posted by Petey | January 23, 2007 1:36 PM

With all the craziness in this thread (fwiw, I kinda agree with MY, I think Blake is playing way over his head right now), this should not be allowed to stand:

I will say again, Joakim Noah's upside potential looks like Marcus Camby.

You're high. I'm sorry, but Noah does not have anything close to Marcus Camby-at-20's athleticism. If you are looking for the ceiling, it's somewhere between Najera (who I like, a lot, but...) and Varejao (who I like, a lot, but...)

Posted by Pooh | January 23, 2007 2:32 PM

"I kinda agree with MY, I think Blake is playing way over his head right now"

The point isn't that Blake is an amazingly good player.

I've ridden the Mikki Moore comparison into the ground, but seriously, is Mikki Moore playing way over his head? Or is Mikki Moore just in the right place to be Mikki Moore?

Blake had his worst looking game since the trade last night, and he still looked like a 30+ minute player on a winning team. The Nuggets need a traffic cop, and he's the guy.

Posted by Petey | January 23, 2007 2:56 PM

Petey's absolutely right that a lot a player's productivity can be dependant upon his situation: change the situation, and you get a change in productivity. As I said when the Blake trade first came up, he was good last year for the Blazers, because he was in a good situation for him. He was bad this year and with the Wiz a few years ago because he was in a bad situation. It looks like Blake is back in a good situation, and I'd think he will be a creditable player.

That said, Mikki Moore is playing way over his head. He had 22 points on 8-of-8 shooting last night. And most of those buckets were on jumpers, not dunks.

Oh, and Pooh is crazy if he thinks Noah won't be better than Najera and Verejao.

Posted by Al | January 23, 2007 3:11 PM

Oh, and Pooh is crazy if he thinks Noah won't be better than Najera and Verejao.

Because the league is littered with wildly successful 6'9 guys with no discernible skills. What does he do at an NBA level besides hustle? He can't shoot, he can't dribble, and has no low post game. So he's essentially an energy guy. Ok, I may have been a little hyperbolic with the comparisons to Najera and Varajao, but Al Horford will be a better pro than Noah. HUGE mistake in not coming out after last year...

Posted by Pooh | January 23, 2007 3:58 PM

No, but Pooh, you don't understand...Noah's got a "motor." Also agree on Horford/Noah, completely.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | January 23, 2007 4:00 PM

I've always liked Camby; it's been hard watching him go down with injuries season after season. But it's not just his play. He's always seemed mature and self-contained; admittedly compared to some out-sized, out-of-control egos. He seems to have found a home in Denver, (must be time to trade him, like Mutombo) and has stayed relatively healthy. He leaves lots of room, on and off the court, for the larger ego needs of others, even while enhancing their games.

I don't get where Matt is coming from on Blake. Like Najera, he's a role player. Since coming to Denver, he's getting it done.

Camby stays healthy, these guys are going somewhere, probably a spoilers this year. The play was uneven last night, but they were "all together again for the first time." Nene stays strong; bonus.

It was great to be there (after I finally found a place to park), the place was stuffed to the rafters. Amazing athleticism, much fun to watch. Couldn't happen to a nicer team.

Posted by Adams | January 23, 2007 4:09 PM

Because the league is littered with wildly successful 6'9 guys with no discernible skills.

Since Noah is 6'11", I don't see your point. Moreover, Noah certainly DOES have skills. He doesn't have a good jump shot or post game. He's a good finisher, offensive rebounder, and passer and he has good ballhandling skills, though. And he is, of course, a very good defensive player. The Camby comparison is quite valid, especially if Noah can (as Camby did) develop a jump shot.

Posted by Al | January 23, 2007 4:23 PM

"Fuck Steve Blake. Seriously. Worst player in the league."

In the 5 games Steve Blake has played since being traded to the Nuggets:

34 mpg
12.2 ppg
6.2 apg

And into the weeds...

He's making:

49% of 2pt Shots
54% of 3pt Shots

Asst/To Ratio of 4.4

And True FG% of 68%.

------

He's not doing anything outside his comfort level. Hard to see why this doesn't persist, even if the stats modestly slide.

The guy just hit a powerball lotto jackpot. Even the worst player in the league has his day. And in Blake's case, that day is likely to turn into a really good season this year, and an overpriced contract down the line.

So when Steve Blake gets around to saying "Fuck Matthew Yglesisas" to you, he'll be able to be rich enough to throw hundred dollar bills at you in the hopes of giving you paper cuts.

Posted by Petey | January 23, 2007 4:28 PM

Since Noah is 6'11"

Color me skeptical. I was 6'4 in college, officially (in reality I'm about 6'0.5) It's not exactly unheard of for players to show up at the pre-draft combine, and 'shrink' several inches (paging Houston, Byron), severely hurting their draft stock.

Posted by Pooh | January 23, 2007 4:58 PM

Marcus Camby is, when healthy

This is the big quesiton and given the track record, I wouldn't want to bet my season on it.

The local NBAers, the Jail Blazers, have someone that reminds me of a young Camby, with a better jumper, in LaMarcus Aldridge. He is neither a 4 or a 5 and uses his quickness and length to bother shots and compensate for his lack of bulk.

Speaking of the Blazers - if local rumors mean anythiing - they would love to move either or both Jamaal Magloire and Zach Randolph before the trade deadline. Any takers?

Posted by Tiparillo | January 23, 2007 6:44 PM

Speaking of Mutombo, what was he doing next to Laura Bush?

Posted by next big thing | January 23, 2007 10:50 PM

blake won the game for the nuggets last nite by hitting some clutch 3s. clearly not even close to the worst PG in the league, let alone worst player.

"blake won the game for the nuggets last nite by hitting some clutch 3s"

Yup. He had a rough game, but he ended up knocking down two 3's in the last two minutes.

Posted by Petey | January 24, 2007 2:53 PM