Don't Believe Caron Butler's Lies

After a baffling interaction with Pizza Hut, which first insisted its website wasn't working even though it clearly was, and then insisted that our house was outside its delivery radius even though it's four blocks away, we turned out attention to Papa John's whose website was advertising "Caron's 3 Point Play: One Large Three Topping, Breadsticks and a 2-Liter" for $18.99 -- what hungry Wizards fan could resist? Not me. It turns out, though, that you don't really get three toppings. You get one topping on the whole pizza, one topping on one half of the pizza, and one topping on the other half. And it doesn't really cost $18.99, either. Once you add in the delivery charge and taxes, it comes to $22.54. They also asserted that $1 was going to go to Butler's charity 3D. After discovering what a liar Butler turned out to be, naturally I had to look into that alleged charity. It turns out ot be legit, but their website reveals Butler's given name to be "James". Basically, everything about the man and his pizza deals is a sham. Except, of course, for his game.

In other Wizards blog news, contrary to Dave Berri's pre-emptive attack, I agree with him about Antawn Jamison. The Wizards stink without him less because he's a great player than simply because he's a good player with awful backup. I do, however, sort of disagree with the "overrated" characterization just because I don't think there's actually much disagreement about this. The Wages of Wins "overrated" list seems to me to be based not only on a debatable model of quality, but on a clearly flawed model of ratedness.

Comments

In his All-Star analysis, he has a table ranking the top ten players per conference per position. Apparently, McGrady is #9, and Manu is #1. Pass on any analysis that finds that ranking compelling.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | February 15, 2007 7:33 PM

I think you mistake the way their website works - you can add three full toppings, or three toppings on each half, or any two full and one half, etc...

Posted by MDW | February 15, 2007 7:51 PM

Is Jamison even really a good player?

Posted by dj moonbat | February 15, 2007 7:56 PM

For the love of god, stay away from the Papa Johns, my stomach used to seize up whenever I tried to put that synthetic pizza-like substance down. I had a friend who was a manager at one, and he fessed up that the cheese is plastic and the meat products come in boxes marked "not fit for human consumption".

Posted by justaguy | February 15, 2007 7:58 PM

Once you add in the delivery charge and taxes, it comes to $22.54.

Plus you have to tip. For an order that size, $3 minimum. Always tip your delivery guy!

Posted by J-Dub | February 15, 2007 7:59 PM

Wait, people order pizza on the Internet? That's just weird. Pick up the phone.

Posted by too many steves | February 15, 2007 8:02 PM

I guess Jamison improved since his Golden State days where he was just above average. Otherwise, I envy your being able to order any kind of pizza. I used to enjoy the stuff regularly til I reached 45 and middle age set in etc. If you are ever in Oakland order Zacharys.

Posted by Jim | February 15, 2007 8:10 PM

I can't help but notice that, despite your sharp and well-phrased notes on things like, say, Iran, you may be suffering some of the stir-craziness of unemployment. In recent weeks we've seen squirrel attacks, a Hottest Princess Contest, and this latest broadside against Caron Butler, all delightful, of course.

Posted by Seth D. | February 15, 2007 8:13 PM

Wait, people order pizza on the Internet? That's just weird. Pick up the phone.

Perhaps you read my post on how I don't like to talk on the phone.

Posted by Matthew Yglesias | February 15, 2007 8:22 PM

Perhaps you read my post on how I don't like to talk on the phone.

That applies to the pizza place, rather than, you know, people? Yikes. That's Agent-Zero-quirky.

This post is right on the money, also. The issue isn't how good the player you lose is; it's the dropoff to his replacement. The Nets are in the same situation. If you are replacing Richard Jefferson with Antoine Wright, you got problems. (I would have added replacing Krstic with Mikki Moore, but actually that hasn't turned out TOO horrible.) Thin teams - teams with three really good players and bad bench scrubs - are extremely vulnerable to injuries to their top guys.

Posted by Al | February 15, 2007 8:30 PM

It could be worse. My friend tried to order some pies from Pizza Hut for a poker game, and was informed that they were out of pizzas. Although he didn't end up eating Pizza Hut pizzas, which is probably for the best.

Posted by MattT | February 15, 2007 8:41 PM

More weird than ordering pizza on-line - having it DELIVERED four-blocks.

(sorry - just looked at weather.com. it's 20degrees in DC...)

but still, do you get pizza delivered in the spring/summer/fall 4 away?

Posted by Adi | February 15, 2007 9:04 PM

"After discovering what a liar Butler turned out to be..."

Could someone please point us to the post/url which elaborates on this?

Posted by Passing by | February 15, 2007 9:35 PM

Im sorry that your choice is between these two God awful places. You might as well get frozen pizza from your grocery store, since that will be cheaper AND better. Why can't they get pizza right outside of NYC? I lived in Albany for 5 years, just a 100 miles away-and home to some of the worst tasting pizza--and that was still better than Pizza Hut any day.

Posted by brooklyn | February 15, 2007 10:32 PM

> More weird than ordering pizza on-line -
> having it DELIVERED four-blocks.
> (sorry - just looked at weather.com. it's
> 20degrees in DC...)

Oh sure - make the delivery guy sweat in that extreme heat rather than walking it yourself. Some liberal.

Cranky

Posted by Cranky Observer | February 15, 2007 10:33 PM

"The Wages of Wins "overrated" list seems to me to be based not only on a debatable model of quality, but on a clearly flawed model of ratedness."

This is why most discussions about who is overrated and underrated, as well as comments to this effect, are pretty stupid. If people want to talk about a specific rating that someone has given a player ("Jamison is an all-star quality player"), fine, but it's pretty dumb to wave one's hand in the direction of a player's general "rating".

Posted by Jeremiah J. | February 15, 2007 10:37 PM

Brooklyn's somewhat obnoxious New York centrism aside, (s)he's right that Pizza Hut is pretty dreadful. No decent local places?

Posted by moriarty | February 15, 2007 10:39 PM

"No decent local places?"

No, none, nada. And Dominoes is verboten in my household since my wife found out the owner is an anti-abortion zealot. Bottom line, the Washington, DC metro area has the worst fucking pizza selection on the I-95 corridor. The only decent alternative I've found is a Maryland chain called Mama Lucia's -- they've got real, thin, NY style pizza and a location near Silver Spring metro.

Posted by fnook | February 15, 2007 10:47 PM

Wait, people order pizza on the Internet? That's just weird. Pick up the phone.

Some pizza joints actually get the online ordering thing perfectly right.

Not a US example, but Hell Pizza is how these things should work.

You get to see and specify exactly what you want, and it remembers your previous orders. Plus you can get an order through (complete with credit card payment) in about a minute tops.

Posted by Andre | February 15, 2007 10:49 PM

Why can't they get pizza right outside of NYC?

The best two pizza places on the East Coast are in Trenton and New Haven, in that order (DeLorenzo and Modern Apizza). I live in New York too, and sadly, the local pizza tradition is slipping. The only reliable great pizza from one of the old masters is Di Faro out in Midwood, though Joe's in the Village is still good for a slice. Other old favorites are no longer as good as they once were. I hear good things about a new place in the Village, Una Pizza Napolitana, but haven't been there yet.

Posted by Antid Oto | February 15, 2007 11:50 PM

Papa John's spicy peppers make me a happy Indian.

Posted by Neil the Ethical Werewolf | February 16, 2007 12:05 AM

yglesias! yglesias! yglesias! right on. pizza. god damn it. too much booze

Posted by etceteras | February 16, 2007 3:04 AM

Make your own pizza, Matt.
A tablespoon and a half of yeast into warm water. It takes about 5 minutes for the stuff to come alive. You'll notice the blobs rising to the surface of the water. Once you see the yeast coming alive like that, add one and a half tablespoons of olive oil. Stir the fuck out of it. Pour the whole concoction over and into
3 and a half cups of flour. Add some salt. Stir the mess with a spoon for a minute or two until it starts acting like dough. Pick it up with your hands. Knead the fuck of it for about ten minutes. You can watch the Wizards on the tube while you're kneading.
Okay, once the dough is rolled into a large ball just as soft as a baby's ass, put it into a nice big glass bowl that's been olive oiled on the bottom. Roll the dough ball around so it's completely covered with olive oil. Cover the bowl (and the dough) with a hot wet towel.
Set it aside for at least 45 minutes so it can rise.
There's your pizza dough. What you put on it is up to you, but you should be eating healthier than you are. Try cooking up a mess of onions, peppers, mushrooms and garlic. You need to skip the meat, it's not good for you. The best pizza sauce I've found is Enrico's Pizza Sauce, but they may not have it at the grocery stores you've been going to.

You know what else is good? High moisture organic prunes. I love these things. Organicprunes.com

Okay, back to the politics...

Posted by Garuda | February 16, 2007 3:04 AM

oh, and by the way, bleecker street pizza in the west village is god damn perfect.

Posted by etceteras | February 16, 2007 3:05 AM

Oh, man! And I thought LA had bad pizza! You guys make me think it may be the second best place in America to get not-Domino's, not-Pizza Hut, not-dear God, Papa John's. (Though that crap has helped finance quite a bit of success for my Detroit homeboy sports franchise owners.)

Do you have Trader Joe's there? They have a nice raw pizza dough.

Posted by Terry | February 16, 2007 4:04 AM

Perhaps you read my post on how I don't like to talk on the phone.

Even if you rehearse your order first?

Posted by neil | February 16, 2007 8:21 AM

for the record there is one excellent place for pizza in dc: pizzeria paradiso

Posted by bayaz | February 16, 2007 8:30 AM

Not sure where you live, but on the hill both Al's Pizza and New York Pizza are good in the I want something greasy kind of way. For quality pizza there is Two Amys near the Cathedral.

By the way order pizza on the internet is far superior because I don't have to be on hold and I don't have to deal with the idiot that is working the phone and won't understand my order.

Posted by nathaniel | February 16, 2007 9:43 AM

for the record there is one excellent place for pizza in dc: pizzeria paradiso

There are a couple of okay places west of Rock Creek Park. Two Amy's is the best. They won't deliver to me, though, and it's extremely inconvenient to get out there from my house.

The pizza situation in DC is, as a general matter, deplorable. It seems to me that in recent years the best pizza tends to be found in slightly off-the-tracks northeastern locations (New Haven, Providence) rather than NYC itself where the pizza tradition has become attenuated by the city's rapid population turnover.

Posted by Matthew Yglesias | February 16, 2007 9:44 AM

I hear good things about a new place in the Village, Una Pizza Napolitana, but haven't been there yet.

It's good, but overpriced. Best pizza I've had in a while is Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix.

Posted by Al | February 16, 2007 9:54 AM

It seems to me that in recent years the best pizza tends to be found in slightly off-the-tracks northeastern locations ... Providence

Casserta's?

Posted by Al | February 16, 2007 9:55 AM

In defense of Washington D.C. Pizza, I rather like Armands. They do a good deep dish, particularly their spinach-garlic, and they have a nice pizza buffet. Main problem is that dinner service is often fairly bad, but that's not a problem for pick up or delivery.

Posted by Greg Sanders | February 16, 2007 10:05 AM

Pizza chains are not uniform. While they get their ingredients from the same distributors, and supposedly follow the same process, the final product varies significantly.

The Papa John's on my drive home makes great pizza. The one that delivers to my house has stiff cheese and crust like styrafoam. The Mama Lucia's near my work makes great pizza, the one near my house bathes theirs in oil. The Armand's near work essentially makes pizza themed bread with barely any sauce or toppings, the one in my old neighborhood was great.

Posted by Njorl | February 16, 2007 10:09 AM

Njorl makes a fair point. The Armands I use is in Silver Spring. I'm not sure I can attest to the other ones. Although I don't recall having problems with the Rockville Pike one, but then I've only been there rarely.

Posted by Greg Sanders | February 16, 2007 10:14 AM

Garuda,

I find it a little strange that you'd recommend making your own dough and then suggest jar sauce (Enrico's). Sauce is easier to make than dough (although I'm curious about your 45 minute rise...seems too short).

Anyway, homemade is the way to go if you have the time. The reason why US pizza chains put so much emphasis on toppings is that the crust, sauce and cheese are so tasteless.

Posted by moriarty | February 16, 2007 10:18 AM

My friend tried to order some pies from Pizza Hut for a poker game, and was informed that they were out of pizzas.

I had this happen too! I was floored! Went into a Pizza Hut (incidentally, in a DC suburb) at lunchtime, asked for one of their lunchtime individual pizzas and were told they were out! How can you be out of pizza? Pizza's something you assemble, no? Apparently not.

Never been to a Pizza Hut since.

Posted by Ryan | February 16, 2007 10:38 AM

Matt, you have to go to Ella's, 901 F Street. It ain't cheap but man it is good. They make a margherita that tastes like it must have tasted when it was invented in 1889. Unfortunately they don't deliver. But it's worth a trip.

Antid Oto, I'm a Modern fan myself- notice nobody's jumped in to champion Pepe's or Sally's. Must be because Matt is a Harvard man.

Posted by Bloikx | February 16, 2007 10:44 AM

I will add to the commentary that if you are trying to decide between ordering between Pizza Hut and Papa John's, and you are someone who lives in a metropolitan area, there is something severely wrong with you.

Posted by Petey | February 16, 2007 11:00 AM

This is perhaps the only thing I miss about living on Long Island. My tiny town in eastern Suffolk had about 10 locally owned independent pizza places and one Domino's (which no one but drunk people ever went to). Any slice I've had from those 10 is better than any pizza I've had anywhere else in the entire country. Little Kenny's in Miller Place has, in my opinion, the greatest pizza in the world.

And bagels. Shit, no one outside the NYC metro area can get those right either.

Posted by Cain | February 16, 2007 11:30 AM

And let's just nip this in the bud right now: New England does not have good pizza. Period. You are all insane.

Posted by Cain | February 16, 2007 11:33 AM

And let's just nip this in the bud right now: New England does not have good pizza. Period. You are all insane.

This is such crap. New York doesn't have particularly good pizza; it has a lot of pizza places, of which some are good. But there is unbelievably bad pizza to be had on every corner of NYC, or wherever you can find one of the various shades of "Ray's." I think the best pizza slice I ever had was in MA.

Furthermore, there is not now, nor has there ever been, anything to indicate that NYCers have some sort of special basketball knowledge or insight, and I wish TV commenters would stop making that claim. Off the top of my head, the only place I would be willing to grant might have such insight is Baltimore, and that only b/c of what Dunbar was back in the day.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | February 16, 2007 11:43 AM

Don't listen to these "make your own pizza" guys. It's really, really hard to get a nice crisp crust without a pizza oven. Your oven just isn't hot enough. Sometimes my gas grill works, though.

But then, you knew not to listen to someone who told you to make pizza with no meat.

Posted by too many steves | February 16, 2007 11:50 AM

Furthermore, there is not now, nor has there ever been, anything to indicate that NYCers have some sort of special basketball knowledge or insight, and I wish TV commenters would stop making that claim.

Usually, SCMT, you're just wrong. But now I know you're just plain crazy.

Posted by Al | February 16, 2007 11:55 AM

It's all about the crust. If you don't get that right, forget it. And to get it you need to pull and stretch and rest and pull and stretch some more. That guy who spins the pizza dough in the air in the good places is the key. That's what gives you that crackling, chewy, thin(!) crust. The Papa Johns of the world have no time for that and that's why their pies will always suck, and why they have to keep coming up with new gimmicks (stuffed crust!) to keep you from noticing.

BTW, Nancy Silverton (nominally partnered with Iron Chef Batali) has opened up a pizzeria here in LA that just may reset the bar. Here's hoping.

Posted by terry | February 16, 2007 12:01 PM

panabella pizzeria is a fairly solid neighborhood option, and can be had without picking up the phone via foodler.com.

Posted by sherwood | February 16, 2007 12:05 PM

"Usually, SCMT, you're just wrong. But now I know you're just plain crazy."

It's not the crazy assertion that NYC doesn't have good pizza which would lead one to make that assumption, but instead the idea that that asserting NYC doesn't have good pizza is a coherent response to a claim about New England's pizza goodness.

Posted by Petey | February 16, 2007 12:09 PM

Is Facia Luna still on Mass. Ave in NW? That was OK. Better than Papa John's.

Posted by dw | February 16, 2007 2:10 PM

SCMT, the best pizza you ever had was in Massachusetts? Oh man, I'm sorry. Your taste buds are whack.

Also, Manhattan doesn't have the best pizza at all. My pizza hierarchy goes something like this:

Long Island > Brooklyn > Manhattan > the rest of the world

Also, just to top off this bout of pizza snobbery:
- CPK should change it's name. That stuff's not pizza. California ruins everything.
- Don't hate Domino's for the bad politics. Hate Domino's because it makes the worst pizza known to man.
- Papa John's is only edible because you can drown it in garlic sauce.
- Never, ever, eat a pizza from Manny & Olga's.
- I've had New Haven pizza. It is nothing special.

Posted by Cain | February 16, 2007 2:28 PM

Let me revise my earlier argument. I will stick by the assessment that best New York pizza joints are not, taken together, the best there is. But the average corner New York joint is better than the average crap most places. It's a version of the Antawn Jamison argument: just as 95% of the time you're not going to be able to replace even a slightly above-average player with someone better, so 95% of the time if you move out of Brooklyn, your new local place isn't going to be a DeLorenzo's (which doesn't deliver anyway, plus you'd have to live in Trenton, which is bleak). Most of the time you're going to end up ordering Papa John's over the internet. Unless you really think you have a shot at Greg Oden, in other words, you might as well stick with Eddy Curry.

That said, I would love to trade Isiah and Steve Francis for a Di Fara artichoke pie.

Posted by Antid Oto | February 16, 2007 3:54 PM

Don't hate on Manny & Olga's they deliver till 5am, order a calzone brother one calzone can feed 3 , what more can you ask brother.

don't be hater be a lover

Posted by manoelsa | April 26, 2007 12:33 AM