Treason

"We Marines," writes Mackubin Thomas Owens on The Corner, "maintain that except for Lee Harvey Oswald, there is no such thing as an 'ex-Marine.' I believe that John Murtha has just joined that small club."

It's really striking how casual mainstream elements of the right have become about tossing off accusations of treason about Democratic Party members of congress with whom they have policy disagreements. How long before some Jack Ruby decides that Rep. Don Young's musing about the desirability of killing congressional Democrats should be taken literally?

Comments

I don't think Oswald could have been convicted of treason, at least on the available evidence. Without at least one other armed participitant there is no 'levying war'. Without evidence that Oswald was an agent of a foreign power there is no 'adhering to their enemies'.

Posted by David Tomlin | February 21, 2007 1:25 PM

Even if it isn't technically "accusing him of treason" we must agree that lumping Murtha into a category which only includes Oswald is a pretty serious slur.

Posted by right | February 21, 2007 1:27 PM

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Posted by Dick | February 21, 2007 1:31 PM

For some people, like Owens, military service is the only thing of note they'll ever do in their life.

How sad.

Now Owens doesn't even have that.

Posted by alphie | February 21, 2007 1:32 PM

You know the guys at Powerline would love to pull the trigger on a few Democrats. Hell, 3/4 of the employees at Fox News would do it given the chance and assurances they wouldn't rot in jail for the deed. Maybe Alberto Gonzales would even work that deal out for them.

Posted by steve duncan | February 21, 2007 1:36 PM

Murtha wants to "prohibit the redeployment of units that have been at home for less than a year, stop the extension of tours beyond 12 months and prohibit units from shipping out if they do not train with all of their equipment."

Why does he hate the troops so much?

Posted by rea | February 21, 2007 1:43 PM

John Murtha has been and will be remembered as a profile in courage, a true American hero. Thank you, John Murtha.

Posted by Jennifer | February 21, 2007 1:44 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/15/opinion/15thur1.html?ex=1329195600&en=2d5aa132f91e0ae1&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

February 15, 2007

Not Supporting Our Troops

How do you explain to the thousands of American troops now being poured into Baghdad that they will have to wait until the summer for the protective armor that could easily mean the difference between life and death?

It's bad enough that these soldiers are being asked to risk their lives without President Bush demanding that Iraq's leaders take any political risks that might give the military mission at least an outside chance of success. But according to an article in The Washington Post this week, at least some of the troops will be sent out in Humvees not yet equipped with FRAG Kit 5 armor. That's an advanced version designed to reduce deaths from roadside bombs, which now account for about 70 percent of United States casualties in Iraq.

The more flexible materials used in the FRAG Kit 5 make it particularly helpful in containing the damage done by the especially deadly weapon the Bush administration is now most concerned about: those explosively formed penetrators that Washington accuses Iran of supplying to Shiite militias for use against American troops.

Older versions of Humvee armor are shattered by these penetrators, showering additional shrapnel in the direction of a Humvee's occupants. The FRAG Kit 5 helps slow the incoming projectile and contains some of the shrapnel, giving the soldiers a better chance of survival....

Posted by anne | February 21, 2007 1:46 PM

Agreed; John Murtha is an American hero who will not be forgotten.

Posted by anne | February 21, 2007 1:47 PM

I don't know about the "how long until some madman takes justice into his own hands" talk. There were similar concerns aired during the Schiavo events in 2005, when Tom DeLay or someone of a similar stature would on a daily basis accuse the entire judiciary branch of 2nd degree homicide.

It seems the candidate pool for those who would act literally on the Right Wing's hyper-violent rhetoric is not large enough to merit concern about a new Jack Ruby killing someone for the good of the country. Now, if a congressman was a patsy in a murderous conspiracy and needed to be shut up before the police interrogated him, that's another story...

Posted by Ben | February 21, 2007 1:55 PM

Espousal of fully equipping the troops, and opposition to throwing their lives away needlessly. Apparently, Mr. Owens would not have agreed with the opinion of MacArthur held by so many of his fellows in the Corps.

Since Mr. Owens is such a brave, brave Marine, perhaps he needs to go tell Mr. Murtha to his face that the latter is just like Lee Harvey Oswald.

Posted by mds | February 21, 2007 2:17 PM

Realize this is before the withdrawal from a lost war.

You ain't seen nothing yet. I think this country is gonna get filthy ugly, maybe to the point of widespread domestic violence.

Posted by bob mcmanus | February 21, 2007 2:23 PM

How long before some Jack Ruby decides that Rep. Don Young's musing about the desirability of killing congressional Democrats should be taken literally?

Re: some crazy extremist trying to kill a politician. Yet another area where right-wingers talk a good game but left-wingers actually take action.

Posted by Al | February 21, 2007 2:27 PM

Domestic violence perpetrated by whom, the small band of remaining, true-believing GOP dead-enders?

Posted by Aaron S. Veenstra | February 21, 2007 2:28 PM

"Domestic violence perpetrated by whom, the small band of remaining, true-believing GOP dead-enders?"

Usually is the case that violence in America comes from the right. Too many variables yet, I am not sure how the politics will shake out. Lose the war, get the wrong President, and the left/war opponents may have to cover the costs. Won't make Democrats happy to cover Bush's folly with entitlement cuts.

Besides for poor Iraq, a lost war is almost always a domestic catastrophe. For a lot of reasons, including the loss of the Keynesian stimulus.

Posted by bob mcmanus | February 21, 2007 2:59 PM

Re: some crazy extremist trying to kill a politician. Yet another area where right-wingers talk a good game but left-wingers actually take action.

Make it 'public officials' and Tim McVeigh probably took out more in one day than all the lefties put together.

Be it noted I'm a rightwinger myself.

Posted by David Tomlin | February 21, 2007 3:01 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how making sure troops aren't continually stop-lossed and do have the necessary armor is somehow "anti-troop."

It'd be nice if the Owenses of the world realized that one can be a patriot and not support the president or his failed policies. Taking the opposite stand makes one an authoritarian, not a great American.

Posted by Unholy Moses | February 21, 2007 3:16 PM

I'm reminded of all the hahaha right to life denunciations of abortion providers which led to wanted posters which included home addresses followed by assaults and murders.
So dear Al I'll be happy to bet you real money whether the lefty nuts or righty nuts has murdered more.
And no, legal abortions are not murders.
But KKK killings of little black girls in churches are.

Posted by tiptap | February 21, 2007 3:49 PM

Owens proves that there are some people who need 'Simper Fi' as their motto.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | February 21, 2007 3:50 PM

The Marines have disavowed Lee Harvey Oswald? That ruins my favorite scene from Full Metal Jacket:

HARTMAN: He was two hundred and fifty feet away and shooting at a moving target. Oswald got off three rounds with an old Italian bolt action rifle in only six seconds and scored two hits, including a head shot! Do any of you people know where these individuals learned to shoot? [...] In the Marines! Outstanding! Those individuals showed what one motivated marine and his rifle can do!

Posted by Chris Conway | February 21, 2007 3:58 PM

"Domestic violence perpetrated by whom, the small band of remaining, true-believing GOP dead-enders?"

Let's remember that this group is about 30% or so of the entire country. That's a lot of people.

On a related topic, can someone explain to me why there is a large (10% or so) gap between those who support Bush and those who support Cheney. It's usually Bush approval at 30ish% and Cheney approval at 20ish%. I've never understood this. Presumably, if someone is still backing Bush at this point they're total Republican whores. Why is Cheney's approval not equal to Bush's?

Posted by Anonymous | February 21, 2007 4:06 PM

i can't believe this coward is disavowing a person (oswald) who stopped the united states' biggest opponent to staying in iraq... err... vietnam in the first place.

that is, JFK.

is he trying to say we shouldn't have been in Vietnam?

what kind of commie, pinko, faggot communist son of bitch says this?

move to iraq...err...vietnam, coward!

Posted by lyle | February 21, 2007 4:16 PM

It's really striking how casual mainstream elements of the right have become about tossing off accusations of treason about Democratic Party members of congress with whom they have policy disagreements.

Do they really have any choice right now? It's not like they can point to their own unbroken string of accomplishments. Just failure after failure, followed by the insistence that we continue to give Chimpy a carte blanche, so he can go right on failing.

Posted by chuck | February 21, 2007 4:24 PM

The interesting part of this is people like Glenn Reynolds, who clearly thought the war was over in May of 2003 and began trying to shame those who'd been against it, as if he'd been proven right. Now, four years and a big mess later, Reynolds and others who fail to objectively reassess the situation are in the position of having to act like they knew all along that, four years out, we'd be anywhere close to this.

Posted by PorkPieHat | February 21, 2007 4:47 PM

Spouting outrageous crap like that while presuming to speak for all marines puts Owens far closer to membership in that club than Murtha could ever be.

Posted by plb | February 21, 2007 4:53 PM

The nice thing about authoritarianism is that it's the ultimate escape from personal responsibility.

It's not the Corner's fault that thousands of soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead because they sent our army off on a fool's errand. It's not the Corner's fault that terrorism is worse and Al Quaeda is resurgent because we sent our army off on a fool's errand.

It doesn't matter that they were, and are, full-throated supporters of sending our army off on a fool's errand. Because, you see, they're just supporting the President or the Troops, or whatever macho jackass is giving them orders.

"We've had a string of embezzlers, frauds, liars and lunatics making a string of catastrophic decisions. This is plain fact. But who elected them? … You have encouraged these malicious incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without question their senseless orders."

Because to challenge is to invite responsibility. These people do not want to be responsible for their decisions. They are adolescents engaging in a fantasy.

Unfortunately, the body count, the debt and the loss of international prestige? All real.

Posted by anonymous | February 21, 2007 5:17 PM

I know it's indecorous to say so, but I'm not convinced ol' Lee Harvey wasn't working for some branch of the military at the time of the shooting.

Posted by Garuda | February 21, 2007 5:24 PM

Owens' unqualified endorsement of Marine Philip Giordano is most touching.

Posted by Roger Ailes | February 21, 2007 5:36 PM

Mac Owens is the kind of Marine that would rape and kill a young girl after she rejected him. This is a guy other Marines would frag on general principle. Like to see his service record- talk to guys who served with him, to see if I'm right.

Posted by Trevor | February 21, 2007 6:13 PM

I think the Marines are the same as the Navy, in the respect that before we put on our uniforms we make a solemn promise to GoD and Country to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution... against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

I raised my right hand and made the promise.

Owens apparently forgot his promise.

Giving false testimony to a joint session of Congress - George W. Bush, violation of Article 2 "faithfully execute" clause. "Uranium from Africa"

Invading a sovereign nation - George W.Bush, VP Cheey, Rumsfeld, Rice, Feith, et.al. Violation of UN Charter Ch1, Sec2 (3,4) - Violation of Article Six "All treaties" clause.

Warantless wiretapping - violation of 4th Amendment

and on and on...

Judgement Day isn't going to be much fun for him, huh?

"So help me GoD" Owens must've had hs fingers crossed behind his back.

Posted by BS Detector | February 21, 2007 6:30 PM

It's also really striking that these assholes are now considered "mainstream."

Posted by Farinata X | February 21, 2007 7:57 PM

Let's remember that this group is about 30% or so of the entire country. That

Or, "just backwash"

Posted by SAO | February 21, 2007 8:30 PM

Weakly Standard, the Corner and the rest of their fellow travelers are, if nothing else, consistent unyielding Stalinists. Everything is expendable to their cause, including the constitution, hundreds of thousands of lives and reputations. They have betrayed the US and the real conservative founders of National Review and the Republican Party. Hopefully this is their last gasp... before a collective cry from the center and right of "have you no shame"...

Posted by erict | February 21, 2007 10:43 PM

Give them something to cry about

The wingnuts will consider us traitors no matter what policies we espouse. Let's make it a two-way street, and actually work for the end of some of their cherished runaway institutions. We already have one perfectly good Army, upon which the Marines must parasitize for logistical support anyway. Why do we put ourselves to the expense of maintaining a second army, the Marine Corps, which, besides being unnecessary, has become a haven for political and religious extremists such as this Corner rat, at least if we are to take his claim to be a spokesman for the Corps seriously? Perhaps the threat of making them all ex-Marines will make blowhards like this reconsider the wisdom of claiming that the whole Marine Corps is committed to their extremist agenda.

Posted by Glen Tomkins | February 21, 2007 11:25 PM

That'll never happen. In fact the opposite keeps happening. "Time" hires Kristol, David Brooks hikes his speaking fees- no matter what- nothing bad will happen to them, and they know it. The average American is watching "American Idol" or porno mad. Wolfowitz sleeps soundly, Charlie Krauthammer's a popular man in D.C. The whole country could go into a massive Depression and they'll all still be riding high.

Posted by Trevor | February 21, 2007 11:29 PM

People like him are Republican'ts first, Americans second. I think putting your Party's interests ahead of your country's makes one a traitor.

Posted by merlallen | February 22, 2007 3:11 AM

I don't remember God being part of the oath of service. I know I vowed to defend the Constitution, I don't remember swearing to God. I would have skipped over that part, anyway.

Posted by merlallen | February 22, 2007 3:17 AM

Re: some crazy extremist trying to kill a politician. Yet another area where right-wingers talk a good game but left-wingers actually take action.

So, "Al" - THIS is your heinous example of left-wing assassination proclivities? Back in 2004 some nutball in Florida tried to run over Katherine Harris (with a Cadillac, natch!) - and this is the Red Terror or something?

I don't know whether the amount of research you assclown trolls go through to find this marginal nonsense is admirable or pathetic. No wait, I guess I do ... I'll go with pathetic....

Posted by Jay C | February 22, 2007 8:28 AM

MacKubin might want to refresh his memory about why Marine's utter the phrase 'Semper Fi'. It's not just towards one's country, but to fellow Marine's as well.

Posted by Fred | February 22, 2007 12:01 PM

Actually, I wonder if MacKubin could get a majority of "Marines" to go along with his Lee Harvey Oswald exception.

Posted by SqueakyRat | February 22, 2007 12:48 PM

What about Sen. John Cornyn's position that the murder of certain judges with whom he and his constituents agree shouldn't be so shocking, since their positions are supposedly so out of line? Even Andrew Sullivan, during or right after his "fifth column" days, said he was disgraceful and should resign.

Posted by Brian | February 22, 2007 1:43 PM

That should be "with whom he and his constituents DISAGREE..."

Posted by Brian | February 22, 2007 2:08 PM