Dallas: Where's The Love?

Eric Neel says he respects the Mavericks but just can't fall in love with them as a great team. He blames Mark Cuban. Closer to the mark, I think, I saw Skip Bayless on ESPN this afternoon talking about "so-called superstar Dirk Nowitzki." The correct term for that sentiment is "crazy." Dirk is averaging over 25 points per game while shooting 50 percent from the field and over 90 percent from the line (42 percent from beyond the arc, thank you very much). Have I mentioned that he's seven feet tall and snags 9.5 rebounds per game? Three and a half assists isn't terrible, either. Oh, and Dallas plays with the league's third-slowest pace, depressing all of his numbers.

There is, in short, an irrational reluctance to embrace Nowitzki as a superstar. People seem almost resigned to him winning the MVP rather than celebrating his greatness. This, even though it's actually quite rare for the proverbial "best player on the best team" to also make an extremely strong case that he's having the best individual statistical season in the league. Is it because he's German? Because it seems unfair for a seven footer to have such a sweet shot? Who knows? Frankly, I feel it too.

Comments

Dirk Nowitzki has had the most win shares of any NBA player 2 years and running. He was one of only 8 players to average at least one block & one steal per game but that streak ran out last year. He has a prime era Shaq like eFG% despite not being the most physically dominating player in a generation like Shaq was. What's more he's doing all this playing a much more traditional role of the big man than he ever has in the past. When this season is over he will have taken slightly more than 33% of the 3pt attempts he took on average between 01-03, even though he's shooting them better than ever.

And Skip Bayless is the biggest hack in sports journalism.

Posted by DRR | March 12, 2007 8:20 PM

Matt, if you get upset at every stupid thing Skip Bayless says, you will have a short and unhappy life. He's the sports version of a Mickey Kaus: A hack who makes his living off contrarian shtick.

Posted by Craigo | March 12, 2007 8:32 PM

I'm amazed that people still pay attention to pro basketball in March. There's some college tournament this month you know.

Posted by Beau | March 12, 2007 8:34 PM

I think Dirk is soft. He's a 7 foot swing man. He doesn't dominate on defense, he barely tries. Wade averages more blocks per game this year, while 6'3" Steve Nash comes up just .1 block per game short. A guy who doesn't play defense has no heart. Dirk also plays ugly. He sort of stumbles the lane herky-jerky, all knees and elbows when he drives. There is absolutely nothing thrilling about his game at all. His highlight reel would look like a compilation of free-throws.

Posted by Just Karl | March 12, 2007 8:38 PM

I think the thing with Nowitzki is that he's exactly the wrong kind of athlete for American fans. It's not just that he's German--though that doesn't help--but also that he seems more like a German industrial band than an American hip-hop artist.

Posted by dj moonbat | March 12, 2007 8:38 PM

"There is, in short, an irrational reluctance to embrace Nowitzki as a superstar. People seem almost resigned to him winning the MVP rather than celebrating his greatness."

Dirk, like Kobe, just has an unappealing personality.

That said, I would've voted for him for MVP both last year and this year, if I had a ballot.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 8:46 PM

. Is it because he's German?

No, he has the same problem as Larry Bird and (to a slightly lesser extent) Kevin McHale: he is a great player who does not seem to be great a athlete. I watch Dirk drive and expect him to fall--he looks clumsy. He is not aesthetically pleasing in his play (or otherwise, also like Bird and McHale). You can look at his stats and see that he's a great player; it's hard to believe that you can watch a single play (as opposed to a series of plays) and see that he's a great player. Not fair, but I think that's what it is.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | March 12, 2007 8:46 PM

No, he has the same problem as Larry Bird

But Larry Bird is . . . a beloved superstar. Dirk doesn't even have a nickname.

Posted by Matthew Yglesias | March 12, 2007 9:02 PM

"Dirk doesn't even have a nickname."

Again, note the similarity to Kobe, who had to self-coin a nickname.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 9:05 PM

But Larry Bird is . . . a beloved superstar.

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I grew up hating him and the Celts. I knew one kid growing up who would admit to liking him.

Dirk doesn't even have a nickname.

"Diggler." And I don't recall Bird having a nickname either. Nobody used "Hick from French Lick."

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | March 12, 2007 9:07 PM

Observations on Dirk:

1) People do not like him because they cannot identify with him. Can you see the world through the eyes of a 7-foot-tall ugly German dude who can't miss a shot? Did you ever play with or against someone like that? Does he seem like a guy you'd want as a friend? Me neither.

2) He was a little bitch in the Finals last year. Shaq gave him a nice welcome-to-the-finals elbow 5 minutes into game 1, and Dirk didn't come within 18 feet of the hoop for the rest of the series.

Posted by Dan-o | March 12, 2007 9:12 PM

perhaps the problem with Dirk is that he made it to the NBA finals, went up 2-0, and then took a gigantic shit.

plus his caps are entirely too big for his caveman noggin.

he may also have detractors because he is a tremendous shooter who can, because of his height, get the shot off whenever he wants. he just shoots over you. there is no savy or style. he is like ray allen but 6 inches taller.

Posted by MP | March 12, 2007 9:13 PM

Bird is a beloved superstar because he lead the Celtics to numerous championships, and because Boston fans are notorious for hyping their hometown players. Basketball is the worst sport by far in refusing to totally celebrate a player as being great if they haven't won a championship, at least not while they are actively playing.

I'm sure that no Dallas fan doubts Dirk's greatness for a second. And if Dallas wins the championship this year as they should, he's going to be getting quite a bit more love.

Posted by Will | March 12, 2007 9:18 PM

First of all, the Kaus-Bayless connection was absolutely brilliant Craigo. I'm almost ashamed now that I wasted Tivo time for the first few years of 1st and Ten.

Second, I do think that part of his lack of appeal is his game. Traditional basketball fans have a hard time respecting 7 footers who like to shoot jump shots. Despite Pat Ewing's pretty impressive career, I still think that the general perception of him is pretty low partially because of those mid-range jumpers that he was in love with. Also, Cuban is a complete ass who like Tony LaRussa, I would never root for anything associated with him.

Posted by Derrick | March 12, 2007 9:21 PM

His personality is the biggest reason. He whines more than Bill Simmons. Add to that his horrifically ugly athleticism and you've got your answer.

Posted by eriks | March 12, 2007 9:24 PM

Dirk is one of the all-time greats, and it's probably time to recognize that.

Seriously.

Posted by Trent | March 12, 2007 9:31 PM

Matt, if you get upset at every stupid thing Skip Bayless says, you will have a short and unhappy life. He's the sports version of a Mickey Kaus: A hack who makes his living off contrarian shtick.

Mickey Kaus = Matt + 30 years

Posted by anon | March 12, 2007 9:38 PM

Bird was nasty, mean, and fierce on the court. He cared enough about winning to do whatever it took to get the job done and demanded it from everyone around him. People respect that even if they don't like him.

Posted by Just Karl | March 12, 2007 9:40 PM

I agree with the personality crowd. He's really unappealing: he whines and plays dirty. And it's true that it's impossible to root for a Mark Cuban team.

That said, Nowitzki isn't a bad athlete at all. He's fast and he's agile. His body makes some strange angles, but he doesn't actually fall down.

Posted by ogged | March 12, 2007 9:42 PM

This very thread shows the irrational inability to embrace Dirk's greatness. Fans had no problem embracing Shaq's greatness, even though he was a clumsy brute who couldn't hit a free throw to save his life. Fans have no problem embracing Tim Duncan's greatness, even though he is an uninspiringly efficient player who happens to be the worst whiner in the league. Fans have no problem embracing Kobe's greatness, even though he is one of the dirtiest players in the league who was quite possible a rapist. Fans have no problem embracing Kevin Garnett's greatness, even though he is one of the biggest chokers in the league.

Yet people will raise all sorts of silly excuses why they should not embrace Dirk's greatness.

Posted by blah | March 12, 2007 9:43 PM

blah, but Dirk is ALL of those things (except, as far as we know, a rapist) wrapped up in cold German demeanor.

Posted by Just Karl | March 12, 2007 9:49 PM

Fans had no problem embracing Shaq's greatness, even though he was a clumsy brute who couldn't hit a free throw to save his life.

You can't sincerely believe that Shaq is clumsy; his greatness is dependent on his agility for his size. Duncan's got three titles; same with Kobe. Garnett--wait and see, but I'm not sure how durable his greatness is going to be. Already you read people arguing that he's the greatest second banana of all time, and nothing more.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | March 12, 2007 9:49 PM

Shaq was not agile. He was a brute force that simply overpowered everybody. It was never pretty watching Shaq in his prime; every time he got the ball, bodies would go flying all over the place. Add the hack-a-Shaq defense, and you have perhaps the ugliest style of NBA play of all time.

Posted by blah | March 12, 2007 9:57 PM

"This very thread shows the irrational inability to embrace Dirk's greatness...Fans have no problem embracing Kobe's greatness...Fans have no problem embracing Kevin Garnett's greatness."

Kobe has never won an MVP--he can't even win one in a year when he registered the greatest single-game offensive performance ever, and when he lost the MVP to a guy who plays no defense. Kevin Garnett won a single MVP, yet he averaged at least 21 pts, 12 boards and 5 assists for 4 years straight. So, no, it is not true that people have no problem recognizing the greatness of Kobe and Garnett.

And I really don't think that there is any great inability to recognize Dirk's greatness. This is probably the first year he clearly deserves the MVP, and yet he's been talked about as an MVP candidate for years. It was only when Avery Johnson became coach that he got a complete offensive game and made some real noise in the playoffs. Before that he was doing basically what Mehmet Okur could do right now. He'd have my vote for MVP if I had one, but I don't think he's greatly underappreciated.

Posted by Jeremiah J. | March 12, 2007 10:15 PM

Shaq was not agile. He was a brute force that simply overpowered everybody.

Simply not true. Before the foot injuries, there were few if any centers of any size who could rival Shaq's ability to move down low. He really did a terrific job keeping his significant weight moving on the balls of his feet.

Perhaps because Shaq seems constantly stoned, his moves have a certain lethargic quality at times, but you can't call him clumsy, or even artless. He's just really goddamned big.

Posted by dj moonbat | March 12, 2007 10:19 PM

"Kobe has never won an MVP--he can't even win one in a year when he registered the greatest single-game offensive performance ever"

I must've slept through that year, as I could've sworn the greatest single-game offensive performance ever belongs to the Big Dipper.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 10:24 PM

"the greatest single-game offensive performance ever belongs to the Big Dipper."

Wilt's team was calling timeouts so they could feed him the ball and get him to 100 points. The game was a blowout, well out of hand. Whereas the Raptors were playing defense on Kobe the whole game, and the game was in doubt until the very end. Earlier in the year Kobe sat on the bench the whole 4th quarter with 60 or something because the Lakers were killing the Mavs.

Posted by Jeremiah J. | March 12, 2007 10:50 PM

For me, the greatest single-game offensive performance ever was Pete Maravich's 68 points against the Knicks in 1977, Wilt, Bryant, Elgin Baylor, David Thompson and David Robinson notwithstanding.

Posted by shnooky | March 12, 2007 11:00 PM

This should be no. fucking. comment. bitches. We kicked Bayless out of Dallas decades ago, for bad-mouthing Landry and Murchison. "Weasel" is a fair description.

Dallas Morning News did a projection a while back, and if Nowitzki has another 8 years like his first 8 (which is a big if), he will be 4th all-time in scoring. In a low scoring era on a slower paced team. Up with Jabbar and Chamberlain. He is in that class. Part of that is conditioning, part of that is is that his 10-15 foot jumpers don't attract defenders like fancy dunks. In other words, his style avoids injuries, which ya know, for the franchise player, is important. Also avoids blocks. But he works to get a shot off, his height helps, but he has moves and fakes. There is no one I would rather have with the game on the line. The "kewl kids" are going to hate him, and foul him stupidly. I still can't believe we won the SA series.

Maybe simply the best shooter in NBA history. I agree with many of the other comments, but his "softness" also makes him kinda of a leader, Avery Johnson comes in and says this is the way it is gonna be, and Dirk says Yessir, and so does the rest of the team. Like Bird, he works constantly, and has improved every stat and part of his game but points every year.

Cuban got rid of Kidd and Nash, and kept Dirk. He is a solid level above either of them. You don't see it yet, but you will. Rings are partly luck, Bird lost 3/4 to the Lakers, but the Mavericks will be in the running as long as Dirk is there.

Posted by bob mcmanus | March 12, 2007 11:05 PM

Shaq was not agile.

You, sir, are on crack. Shaq even four or five years ago was not just agile for a big man, but one of the more agile players in the league. Watch clips of him when he was younger, like this.

Posted by ogged | March 12, 2007 11:08 PM

This was weirding me out, Dallas is in their whites at Golden State. This is a game that scares me, so often I have seen good teams blow out some competitive team, and the next night lose to a mediocrity.

Posted by bob mcmanus | March 12, 2007 11:15 PM

the issue with nowitzki in this context is that images are formed early: most of the players we regard as superstars (admittedly, a most imprecise usage) were dominant from a very early stage in their careers.

nowitzki, on the other hand, was very good in the early stages of his career, but not great; it's only in the last couple of years (as someone already noted, not coincidentally under avery johnson) that nowitzki's game has moved up that final notch (or, to put it another way, people who watch enough mavericks basketball say that his game has moved up that final notch, because i don't see the mavs enough to have a judgement), and reporters still haven't adjusted.

Posted by howard | March 12, 2007 11:19 PM

"Cuban got rid of Kidd and Nash, and kept Dirk. He is a solid level above either of them. You don't see it yet, but you will."

I think we all see quite well right now.

The issue at hand is not Dirk's greatness. It's Dirk's likability.

And for the third time in the thread, I'll compare Dirk to Kobe. I saw a moment this year where Devin Harris was leading a 3 on 1 break with Dirk on one wing. Harris kept the ball, got the hoop and the "and one". Dirk's response was to start screaming at Devin that he should have passed him the ball.

I could vaguely see Dirk's point. Harris had a fairly high degree of difficulty in making the layup, but still, dude got three points out of it and took a lot of contact. You don't yell at a guy on the court in public about that.

And there have been other incidents of Dirk screaming at teammates on the court at the end of close losses. The guy's got a bit of Mamba vibe about him.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 11:21 PM

"Dallas is in their whites at Golden State. This is a game that scares me, so often I have seen good teams blow out some competitive team, and the next night lose to a mediocrity."

The Warriors have been in high gear for the last week or two, since they suddenly got healthy. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see Oakland win this one.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 11:22 PM

"Shaq even four or five years ago was not just agile for a big man, but one of the more agile players in the league."

I love watching Shaquille play, both now, and also back when he was younger. He has wonderful grace.

It always suggests to me the scene from Fantasia where the hippos gracefully dance ballet in pink tutus.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 11:26 PM

"Wilt's team was calling timeouts so they could feed him the ball and get him to 100 points."

Oh. I didn't realize the criteria were subjective, rather than based on actual, y'know, statistics.

If that's the case, then the greatest single-game offensive performance of all time was obviously Iverson's 60 pt game against Orlando a couple of years ago. The game was tight for all 48 minutes, and Iverson was dominant for all 48 minutes.

Posted by Petey | March 12, 2007 11:57 PM

Oh. I didn't realize the criteria were subjective, rather than based on actual, y'know, statistics.

People feeding a player the ball are objective circumstances; it doesn't matter whether the player is Wilt, Duncan, etc.; a player who has more touches has more opportunities to score. I still don't know that Kobe's 81 would make my #1 offensive performance.

Posted by dj moonbat | March 13, 2007 12:01 AM

"For me, the greatest single-game offensive performance ever was Pete Maravich's 68 points against the Knicks in 1977, Wilt, Bryant, Elgin Baylor, David Thompson and David Robinson notwithstanding."

"Iverson's 60 pt game against Orlando a couple of years ago. The game was tight for all 48 minutes, and Iverson was dominant for all 48 minutes."

Maybe I'll have to reconsider Kobe's 81 in relation to those other games (you might also add Scott Skiles' 30 assists in a game into the mix). But I'd still rank it above Wilt's game (though Wilt's *averaging* 50 a game for a year really beats all). And I really think that people didn't appreciate what Kobe did last year offensively. The idiotic hit on Mike Miller that cost his team two wins probably knocked him down a bit for MVP voters.

Posted by Jeremiah J. | March 13, 2007 12:29 AM

Well when Dallas loses they don't fuck around. This could be thirty points. I would say they lack heart, but hey...

I should have watched Eddie Izzard and Minnie Driver as Travelers.

Posted by bob mcmanus | March 13, 2007 12:29 AM

"Well when Dallas loses they don't fuck around."

Like we both said, bob, you could see this one coming a mile away.

Posted by Petey | March 13, 2007 12:37 AM

But I'd still rank it above Wilt's game (though Wilt's *averaging* 50 a game for a year really beats all)

That's right: 100 in a game is hot, but one's appreciation for that accomplishment might be tarnished by a recognition of extenuating factors. (Though that third digit in the box score goes a long way toward assuaging any doubt.)

But averaging 50? No, there's no way to sell that short. If you've done that, you've owned the league for a season. It's not like the other teams' coaches had no time to prepare for that. You just beat the best the rest of the league had to offer, day in and day out, for a season.

Wilt would be less dominant today than he was in his own day, but he would still be a seriously bad-assed player.

Posted by dj moonbat | March 13, 2007 12:44 AM

"And for the third time in the thread, I'll compare Dirk to Kobe. I saw a moment this year where Devin Harris was leading a 3 on 1 break with Dirk on one wing. Harris kept the ball, got the hoop and the "and one". Dirk's response was to start screaming at Devin that he should have passed him the ball."

Jordan and Bird do that and they are lauded as great leaders

Posted by Rob | March 13, 2007 12:52 AM

"Jordan and Bird do that and they are lauded as great leaders"

Jordan and Bird both had a much less self-centered vibe about the way they upbraided teammates than Kobe and Dirk do.

While Jordan and Bird could both be assholes at times, I can't imagine either one of them yelling at a teammate after the teammate had just successfully completed a three point play, or yelling at teammates in public after a loss.

Posted by Petey | March 13, 2007 1:02 AM

Jordan and Bird do that and they are lauded as great leaders

Jordan and Bird led their teams to multiple championships. When Novitzki gets even one championship for Dallas, any evidence of him pulling that kind of primadonna bullshit will disappear from reviews of his character, or will be chalked up to "competitive fire" or some such nonsense.

Is that fair--that a loser's personality flaws are hauled out at every opportunity, while a winner's are ignored or excused? No. But this is how these things go.

Posted by dj moonbat | March 13, 2007 1:03 AM

"Jordan and Bird do that and they are lauded as great leaders"

And it's worth noting that the yelling at teammates in public after a close loss thing is the ultimate breaking of the star player code. As star, you are going to get the glory after the wins, so it's incumbent upon you not to seemingly shift blame after the losses.

Posted by Petey | March 13, 2007 1:12 AM

He's ugly, has a bland personality, and isn't particularly graceful or "fun" to watch. It's really not tough to see why he's not a superstar. It has nothing to do with people being unable to "identify" with him (who could identify with MJ? Shaq?) or his efficiency as a player.

Posted by Alex | March 13, 2007 1:17 AM

the really memorable thing about wilt's 100-point game is that this lifetime terrible free throw shooter went 28-32 at the line. (and that 4000 people were at the game.)

but dj moonbat, i think wilt would be just as dominant today physically: he was enormously strong. the game has changed so much in terms of tempo that he of course couldn't average 50 or anything, but it's hard to see who matches up well with him in the contemporary nba....

Posted by howard | March 13, 2007 1:31 AM

"it's hard to see who matches up well with him in the contemporary nba...."

I always assume young Wilt was a better version of pre-knee injury Amare...

Posted by Petey | March 13, 2007 1:33 AM

but it's hard to see who matches up well with him in the contemporary nba....

Well, Shaq comes to mind....

Posted by dj moonbat | March 13, 2007 1:41 AM

While Jordan and Bird could both be assholes at times, I can't imagine either one of them yelling at a teammate after the teammate had just successfully completed a three point play, or yelling at teammates in public after a loss.

At least as regards Jordan, that's crazy. Jordan is the original difficult teammate. He drove teammates out of the league, by Halberstam's account. He and Pip humiliated their soon to be teammate, Kukoc, in the Olympics--pretty big stage. Jordan started the whole "my supporting cast" thing. He shrieked at Bill Cartwright in a playoff game (to be fair, so did I, through the TV), and told his teammates they were not to pass the ball to Cartwright (an issue which Cartwright addressed afterwards by taking Jordan aside and threatening his career). What happened in DC wasn't new or novel; it was precisely the sort of thing that happened in Chicago.

He was, however, identifiably, and ultimately, undeniably, great. For those players, we'll create whatever mythos is necessary. (I don't really know why we need to make them into decent guys, but we apparently do.) If the Mavs win and Dirk's the dominant player on the team, he'll be ID'd as great, and people will immediately start pretending he's one of the greatest of all time. I've certainly heard people (Wilbon, I think) say that Wade's the second coming of Jordan, which is, to me, flat crazy.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | March 13, 2007 1:44 AM

Dirk Nowitzki is fucking clutch. Anybody who says otherwise is a fucking NAZI.

Posted by Gregorio | March 13, 2007 2:03 AM

petey and dj moonbat, i think pre-injury amare (although he'd be giving some real height away) and shaq are about the two, which pretty much leaves wilt as a dominant center in today's nba. (as a side note, dj moonbat, although shaq is bigger than wilt, i don't think he's stronger)

i think a shaq/wilt matchup in their respective primes would be one of those games worth paying for (because wilt was a better rebounder, if they both had the same 4 teammates, i'd pick wilt's team most of the time, but the head-to-head would be a lot of fun).

Posted by howard | March 13, 2007 2:13 AM

"a bland personality"

You mean no personality. Even less than Duncan. And a lot less than Yao. A few years ago when a playoff series with Utah was getting testy he said "Utah is a bad city". His English (and knowledge of American geography) has improved since then but his personality hasn't.

I actually think he's a great player to watch, though. He can shoot it from anywhere, run the floor and post up if he wants to. He also has that wonderful slow release that baits defenders into trying to jump for the block, at which point he goes right around them. A lot more fun than watching Shaq bulldoze people.

As for how good Wilt would be, I'd have to see some more of those old games to decide. In the clips I've seen, it looked really easy to get the ball to Wilt in the post. In Shaq's prime and with other great post players today teams have done a lot to deny the pass, which is one reason I think why post players have not led the league in scoring very often in the past 20 years.

Posted by Jeremiah J. | March 13, 2007 2:32 AM

"At least as regards Jordan, that's crazy."

If it's crazy, why would you address radically different concerns than the two specific points I said that Dirk does that Jordan didn't?

And along with those two things, I quite clearly mentioned that Jordan could be an asshole, which is what you seem focused on proving.

Do you even read the things you quote?

Posted by Petey | March 13, 2007 2:41 AM

It's strange to see Dirk cast as "assholish" or a premadona. The general historical knock on him from local fans was that we was too passive & conflict avoident & wasn't really the leader of the team despite being it's most talented player. Some of that changed once Finley & Nash left but I wasn't aware he'd done a complete 180. Maybe it takes the distance from outsider fans to spot that.

Oh and Dirk has nicknames, they just don't get profile nationally. Since his breakout 00-01 season he's regularly been referred to as "The Blonde Bomber" & "The Bavarian Blitzkrieg" & "The Dunker from Deutschland" and others even more stupid than that.

Posted by DRR | March 13, 2007 6:30 AM

"It's strange to see Dirk cast as "assholish"

FWIW, my personal assessment of Dirk on the asshole scale is middling. If Kobe rates a 10 on that scale, Dirk is only a 5 or 6.

His larger lack of likability is mostly related to non-assholish factors, such as a perceived coldness. Plus, no one likes a German.

Posted by Petey | March 13, 2007 7:15 AM

I like Germans. Anyone who watched Khan perform in the 2002 World Cup had to be almost giddy at his preternatural/robotic ability to keep the ball out of the goal. Watching coldly efficient performances can be fun. That said, Dirk has a bad personality which explains why he doesn't get as much attention as similarly talented players.

Posted by eriks | March 13, 2007 8:12 AM

This whole thread is weird to me. I think Dirk seems like a pretty likable guy -- there's the whole guitar-playing shtick, the Hasselhoff in the locker room. Sometimes when he's actually paying attention he's a pretty funny interview.

I'm not a big Mavs fan, but I like watching him play. Maybe it's because I'm a gunner (although a foot shorter than Dirk), but I've always liked watching a guy with a pretty shot. Dirk's shot in a little unorthodox, but it's pretty. He's also fun to watch because he does things nobody else can do.

Posted by too many steves | March 13, 2007 10:33 AM

IMO, Petey is wrong about Jordan and SomeCallMeTim has it right. Jordan was crazy mean to everyone. And I never thought of Jordan and his millions of sweatshop dollars and his baseball retirement and his gambling problem as anything but 'self-centered'. Not to mention his trying to kill an obviously accurate account of his behavior, and a writer's career, by claiming 'The Jordan Rules' was full of lies.

And talk about Dirk being a whiner, I've NEVER seen somebody whine more while getting EVERY SINGLE CALL than Michael Jeffrey Jordan. A truly great player and a truly atrocious person.

Posted by keatssycamore | March 13, 2007 10:50 AM

Not to mention Jordan's embrace of the entirely bankrupt 'supporting cast' notion.

Posted by keatssycamore | March 13, 2007 10:54 AM

Petey, spare me. If your point is that you can't recall Jordan yelling at a teammate after a successful three point play--well, great. I don't remember Kobe yelling at a teammate after a successful three point play, so maybe he's off the hook, too. If your point was broader, you're a moron. Could you possibly be arguing that Jordon never got on teammates publicly? Go back and look at the two Sam Smith books and the Leahy book.

Jordan was a bully and a sort of dick. And you know what? That's fine. It worked for him. He was a bully and a dick for the right reasons. His job was to win games, and he did. And, per Halberstam, after Smith's first book, he realized it didn't matter at all: he was bulletproof. Again, that was fine. The idea that America loves a winner isn't particularly novel; neither is the idea that success redeems all sins.

And precisely how you're reconciling the earlier MVP chants, the jersey sales, etc. with the claim that Kobe is not well liked remains unclear.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | March 13, 2007 11:16 AM

i think the taller ray allen observation is exactly on point. not only game wise, but the fact that dirk seems kind of cold and whiny just like ray (calling out your team mates in a press interview will do that to you). and i'm unclear why we shouldn't measure dirk by how much playoff success his teams have. unlike some other sports, everyone gets to the playoffs in the NBA. so getting there isn't particularly impressive. and a 7 game series generally is pretty conclusive re who's the better team. so losing in the playoffs tends to indicate a lot. granted, dirk's had to compete with the lakers and spurs, which doesn't provide a lot of room for error. but there's not a love of respect for teams that make the finals and lose (nets anyone?), so dirk's not really being treated unfairly. finally, a lot of the mavs current success seems to be the result of howard, terry, harris stepping up and making big shots, etc. that is, not clearly a one-man band for which dirk should get all credit. (i feel the same way about the suns.)

poor dirk. incredibly rich and successful, but not loved.

Posted by dj superflat | March 13, 2007 12:55 PM

So much misinformation out there about Larry...

Larry Bird and Kevin McHale didn't like each other. And Larry famously said "we played like a bunch of women" after Game 3 of the 1984 Finals, which ruffled a few feathers. So it's not like LB was particularly nice to his teammates. Of course, Larry also averaged 6.3 assists and 10.0 rebounds over his career, won three titles, won back to back to back MVP's, was the best clutch shooter of his generation, and was something of a basketball genius. So no one was going to say anything about it. (In addition, he was more than happy to crack a knuckle on your jaw if you did had something to say to him.)

As for Dirk, it's all about the titles. If he starts winning titles, all the other accolades will fall in line.

Posted by owenz | March 13, 2007 2:43 PM

Anybody remember the episode of Punk'd that featured Dirk a few seasons back? Some 14 year old kid kept interrupting Dirk's meal at a restaurant asking him to autograph one item after another. Dirk just kept signing everything the kid brought him. He had good humor about the whole thing, and came across as a very decent guy, not at all like an asshole.

Posted by blah | March 13, 2007 3:36 PM

much to my shame, i actually saw that, and agree that dirk seemed like a really nice guy. i actually think guys with brains like him and duncan, both of whom are actually pretty funny, get called boring because they don't say outrageous things or often lose it when talking to the press, though they're likely way more interesting than most NBA players.

Posted by dj superflat | March 13, 2007 7:36 PM