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The Honor of McCain

17 Apr 2007 10:39 am

Fred Kaplan gets in many good licks against John McCain, but I take issue with this characterization at the end:

Two and a half years ago, John McCain swallowed his pride and hitched his ambitions to two stars—George W. Bush and the war in Iraq. Both have since imploded. And so, as his campaign faces the purple dusk of twilight time, the man who might once have been an honorable president slips and slides on the stardust.

I think there's oftentimes a tendency to discount the possibility of sincere disagreement in politics. As in assuming that McCain's fantastically stupid views on national security policy represent some kind of grubby and dishonorable act of political expediency. For quite a number of years, however, dating back to the late 1990s at least, McCain has been a consistent apostle of the Bill Kristol school of foreign policy -- all problems should be solved through force, and all problems with the use of force should be solved through the application of more force. McCain showed political courage and broke with his party to support the use of force in Kosovo. When that war appeared not to be working, he started slamming Bill Clinton for using insufficient force. He argued before and after 9/11 for regime change in Baghdad. He ran in 2000 on a platform of "rogue state rollback." He backed the Iraq War and when it started going poorly fearlessly criticized the Bush administration's handling of the war, calling for the deployment of more troops and the use of more force. Eventually, Bush came around to McCain's point of view.

This is just his view. McCain, like Kristol, or Joe Lieberman and various other people is a kind of anti-pacifist. Somebody who supports war as the solution to anything, and believes that any war can be successfully prosecuted if only it's prosecuted more vigorously. The difference is that people don't take pacifists seriously when they start arguing about specific cases, whereas people who believe the country should be launching dozens of wars at all times are given PBS specials, Washington Post columns, spots as TV commentators, Time columns, etc., etc., etc.

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a kind of anti-pacifist. Somebody who supports war as the solution to anything, and believes that any war can be successfully prosecuted if only it's prosecuted more vigorously.

a.k.a. "war monger", or, my favorite, "war pig".

politicians hide themselves away
they only started the war
why should they go out to fight?
they leave that role to the poor

yeah.

(come on baby, remember my info!)

Well, that's exactly right. McCain's refusal to acknowledge the facts on the ground ("the shopping was great!") is inexplicable if you think of him as Senator Straight Talk, but you wouldn't bat an eye if any number of people in the current administration exhibited the same pathology. McCain is irredeemably pro-war, the facts in this case are anti-war, so he denies the facts to himself.

McCain has been a consistent apostle of the Bill Kristol school of foreign policy -- all problems should be solved through force, and all problems with the use of force should be solved through the application of more force.


aka, the PNAC school of international diplomacy....

I think Kaplan was saying, "now that I think he's a has-been, I can say a nice thing about him, though with the qualifier 'might have been'."

I think McCain's melange of notions that criss-crossed party boundaries would have made for a poor presidency, and a war-like one too.

John McCain = Orrin Hatch + Douglas MacArthur

I think there's oftentimes a tendency to discount the possibility of sincere disagreement in politics.

Maybe: but in this case, as so often, it is the sort of sincerity which is well backed up by organised insider groups. The sort of sincerity contrary to organised insider groups is rather more rare.

"I think there's oftentimes a tendency to discount the possibility of sincere disagreement in politics."

hahaha, you have no shame.

I don't doubt that McCain is sincere in his support for the Iraq War (or for a hypothetical invasion of Peru or Mongolia for that matter), but his pandering to the Bush crowd is a separate issue, and one that rears its obsequious head on issues that one would expect McCain of all people to stand on principle on like torture.

I think there's oftentimes a tendency to discount the possibility of sincere disagreement in politics. -Matt

Matt has argued this many times: that Hillary really believes in militarist imperialism and the unitary executive, that Guiliani really believes in racism, that McCain really agrees with Bush on Iraq and so forth.

No. These people are high-stakes politicians. No one can resist the pressure at that height. They can't possibly care what opinions are right or best. They can only care what opinions are right or best for their campaigns.

Right. In 2000 McCain ran the first neoconservative presidential race in history, one based on national "greatness" tied to imperialism and hawkishness. Bush, remember, was preaching "humility" on international affairs and opposing "national building." Neocons love nation building, especially after nation destroying. That's why William Kristol endorsed McCain, not Bush, in 2000.

Gary Sugar:

Why should anyone take your assertion as an actual argument ?

Great post. It's so true!

What McCain did in 2004 was to betray the chattering classes who'd had so much fun on the bus four years earlier they'd sorta conveniently overlooked his voting record, let alone his microencephaly. He didn't dump Bush/Iraq the same time they got around to doing so, which is the unforgivable sin; if he'd cold-shouldered Bush, proceeded to talk about "failure" in Iraq, and then proposed precisely the same "surge" he shilled for they'd still be hailing him as an independent thinker and military expert.

Actually I think you are incorrect about McCain's support of the use of force in Kosovo. (That was a political event I followed very closely--I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Albania and a bit of an advocate of intervention).

Early on in the conflict (pre-1999) McCain was frequently interviewed on the serious talk shows, and he pretty consistently said that he felt that our national interests weren't involved in the Kosovo conflict in the escalation to conflict; he thought it was mainly an issue to be solved by Europeans. However, once Clinton started giving ultimatums and war talk was serious, he backed intervention 100% (he believed it it should be won at any cost).

Thank you for your astute distillation of the "war pig" mindset... though fuck Ozzy Osbourne for defaming peace-loving witches...

"Generals gathered in their masses/ Just like witches at black masses"

Also, rhyming masses w/ masses. WTF!?!? Ahh, I guess if you scream it right.


I'm surprised that no one has yet pointed out that the passage MY quotes doesn't say anything like the point he is criticizing.

What about the term "war slut?" I.e., someone who will support any war, any time, without any discrimination as to which reasons for war are good and which are bad, etc.

"The difference is that people don't take pacifists seriously when they start arguing about specific cases, whereas people who believe the country should be launching dozens of wars at all times are given PBS specials, Washington Post columns, spots as TV commentators, Time columns, etc., etc., etc."

Good point.

MY should write a column about why that is so. Why the Kucinich types are treated as freaks and yet Kristols/Kagans/Krauthammers are treated as "serious" foreign policy experts and celebrated by MSM. Even now with the neocon ideology discredited the so called liberal New Republic publishes Robert Kagan. Check out their latest issue. Isn't there anybody at TNR asking why are we still listening to this guy.

What question we should ask about any war we enter into is this, how will we govern the place afterwards? Any politician or commentator who is unwilling to engage that conversation should not be taken seriously. If we had asked that question before we invaded Iraq, we might have done things differently or not at all. We should be asking that question to every one of these so called leaders about Iran. Kristol is hellbent on attacking Iran, let's hear what he has to say about governing the place afterwards.

"The difference is that people don't take pacifists seriously when they start arguing about specific cases, whereas people who believe the country should be launching dozens of wars at all times are given PBS specials, Washington Post columns, spots as TV commentators, Time columns, etc., etc., etc."

Sorry. Let me get up off the floor. Hoo ha ha. Ohhhh...

Ok. I am afraid this is merely an observation from the perspective of one who is upset because not everyone takes him seriously.

The only people who don't take pacifists seriously are non-pacifists, just as the people who don't take non-pacifists seriously are pacifists.

I have seen more than overabundance of specials, special reports, Newsweek special reports, Time cover stories, Washington Post, NY Times, etc., etc., etc., promoting pacifist agendas and individuals, mocking those who call for military might to protect freedoms.

Wait. Let me read that one more time. "The difference is that people don't take pacifists serious-" Hooo ha ha. Ohhh. That's good.

I have seen more than overabundance of specials, special reports, Newsweek special reports, Time cover stories, Washington Post, NY Times, etc., etc., etc., promoting pacifist agendas and individuals, mocking those who call for military might to protect freedoms.

Do you have links?

Just one will do. One Time cover story. Not just disagreeing with the conduct of one particular war; not just disagreeing that one particular war should not have been waged at all; but actually mocking people who believe that freedoms should be protected with military force.

Go on. I'm sure you can find one.

We'll be waiting...

Matt:

I agree there's a tendency to discount the possibility of actual disagreement in politics, and I agree there's a tendency to discount McCain's militarism as insincerely held.

But then I remembered this:

Worst of all, George W. Bush's Iraq policy is so crazy that it's managed to ruin McCain's devilishly clever positioning on Iraq.

What clever positioning am I talking about? A little while back, McCain faced an apparent problem -- his demented, run-amok militarism clashes with the national mood at a moment when Iraq is becoming a horrible millstone around Republican necks. McCain, however, had a way around this -- simply advocate the one policy so crazy nobody would ever possibly do it, namely throwing more troops into the war. That way, things would continue to go downhill, congressional Democrats would surely force some kind of de-escalation, and McCain could campaign not on an unpopular pledge to actually send more troops, but simply on an in-retrospect observation that more troops should have been sent. But then -- because sometimes the strangest things happen -- Bush decided that he agreed with McCain and was going to implement a "surge." And with that, the once promising Cult of John McCain began to fall apart.

- - Matthew Yglesias. March 6th, 2007.

Matt, I think it's hard to avoid the conclusion that there's at least the appearance of a conflict here. In your defense, you don't shy away from saying McCain's natural tendencies run toward run-amok militarism. But it's hard to read the above passage and come away with anything other than the view that what McCain wants is to look tough on Iraq without having to actually be tough on Iraq, which is precisely the sort of second guessing of McCain's espoused positions that you criticize in your post.

Am I wrong?

Nate W.

Fred Kaplan's reference to Hoagy Charmichael's "Stardust" was great. There's a nostalgia for a McCain who was "long ago and far away." I just can't decide who's singing about it, Nat King Cole or Doris Day.

"The only people who don't take pacifists seriously are non-pacifists, just as the people who don't take non-pacifists seriously are pacifists."

Uh, yeah, but we're not talking about "non-pacifists" in general, we're talking about the type of non-pacifist who believes the only way to solve any problem is by force. Certainly they (the war sluts--I like that term) and the pacifists will always each believe the other is nuts. But there are a whole hell of a lot of people, probably the vast majority, who believe that war is appropriate in certain circumstances, but not in others.

Yet who do we have on all the talk shows in Newsweek covers that these "gray area" people read? Fricking war sluts.

Understand now?

People miss this aspect of McCain's politics. His support for the war and "winning at any cost" is probably the only sincere political stance the man still has. He not only belongs to the school of thought that says that "all wars must be fought with overwhelming force to win" (a common stance among the military minded who fought in Vietnam, such as Powell), but also "almost any conflict can be solved with war or the threat of war, and if you make a threat you better back it up" (a less common stance among the post-Vietnam military minds, who mostly skewed to the belief that you should only fight a war that you can define victory conditions for and win by sending in overwhelming force).

McCain has been a warmonger for a while - that part of his ideology hasn't changed. The fact that it hasn't has convinced some folks who might have voted for him back in 2000 that he's not as smart as they thought that he was, but that's their problem not his.

It's like G. Gordon Liddy taught us -- all it takes is "will". Yep, if you wish hard enough and click your heels 3 times all your dreams will come true. Contemporary Republican military thought seems to be heavily influenced by the bestselling Christian wingnut book, Prayer of Jabez. Just pray to Jabez and you and all the other members of the cargo cult will be showered with material blessings.

I liked it better when all the wingnuts were lecturing us about how "hope is not a plan".

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Comments closed May 01, 2007.

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