« Panda-blogging | Main | Edwards Statement on Iraq » Yglesias Smack Down: Politicians Love Hip-Hop11 Apr 2007 04:03 pm Jason Zengerle seems to have the goods: Obama meet with Ludacris (maybe they compared Grammys); and Hillary Clinton tap Timbaland (not a rapper, per se, but a producer of many rappers) to host a big fundraiser. And don't forget John Edwards doing yoga with hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons last summer. That's three examples. It's a bona fide trend!Well; I find that surprising, but it all checks out. Comments (26)
aesthetically speaking, hillary picked the right one. i actually don't know ludacris well enough, but you can hardly claim that tim and simmons are key figures in that part of hiphop culture that traffics in misogyny.... 
I have a hard time believing anyone finds this surprising. These guys have a lot of power amongst their constituents. To say as Howard has that Timbaland and Simmons are part not part of the hip hop culture that traffics in misogyny is like saying that John Gotti was not a part of the mafia culture that trafficked in heroin. These guys own and produce hip hop, simply because they arent themselves spitting what some believe are offensive lyrics doesn't mean that they do not profit from them.
Be prepared to here lots about this from the noise machine. Why they would waste their time defending an un-funny un-dead coprse like Imus is beyond me. But, on the other hand it will give them a chance to dis Dems and some black people, a two 'fer in their eyes, no doubt. There are college Republicans trolling their party mixes for the offending lyrics even as we blog.
The question is, who does The Blizzard Man endorse?
Is there a lot of mysogyny in hip-hop? Yeah. Are all of Ludacris' lyrics socially appropriate? No. But let's not get carried away here. Sure, rappers rap about fictional "bitches" and "hos" . . . that's *not at all* the same thing with calling an actual human being a ho. There really *are* bitches and hos, its ugly and those words are thrown around too much and its damaging to women, but at least there's some sort of a fig leaf. But at the end of the day, nothing about the fact that some rapper used the word "ho" makes it remotely okay to call a non-ho-ish person a ho. The issue isn't that Imus simply used the word "ho" on the radio. These girls didn't pose nude for a calander or whatever, their only claim to fame was winning a national championship. Nothing about their behavior in any way was related to being ho's. If he called Paris Hilton a skanky ho, no one would be bent out of shape. What did these girls to do deserve being called hos? Not saying that anyone "deserves" being called a ho, but even assuming some sort of ho-rubric, what *possible* justification is there? That's the bottom line. Imus didn't just say something about nappy-headed hos in the abstract . . . its not like Al Sharpton is saying "Don Imus cannot discuss the issue of nappy-headed hos, but I'm giving a free pass to Ludacris and Timbaland to carry on that conversation". At the end of the day, Ludacris can defend his comments about hos with "well, I *am* talking about hos, hos exist, live with it". Imus can't defend what he said because he said it about specific people. The issue isn't misogyny in general or bad words.
Cris was in "Crash," he's got meta-rap-as-cultural-critique cred. Tim represents the Jay-Z-esque "Black Republican" NY young mogul scene, so he makes sense for Hillary and her people. Rush (yes, Russell Simmons is the original "Rush") has a different constituency and is arguably more connected to the fashion/media world than hip hop these days.
MY, huge opportunity for a be-hoodied vlog missed on this topic.
William:
I wonder if Obama likes this skit from Ludacris' 2003 album "Chicken and Beer." "T Baggin' Skit" [Dial Tone] ...Why did he meet with this man?
By the way, Timbaland is a rapper, if not a particularly good one. Obviously he is most famous for his production work, but I think he just released a solo album recently. Also, the guilt by association argument made above by Laborlibber proves way too much. Who else benefits? The music companies. Who benefits from that? Other musicians on that label. So every time you buy an album from a major label you would also be guilty of encouraging misogyny, blah, blah, etc.
Sabina, there is a huge difference between the consumer who buys an album and a producer who directly controls and profits from the album. If there is moral culpability, and I'm not arguing that there is, it lies with the master as well as it lies with the servant.
Sure, rappers rap about fictional "bitches" and "hos" . . . that's *not at all* the same thing with calling an actual human being a ho. Bullshit.
That Ludacris skit is hilarious and accurate, and I see no problem with it— and I am not usually a big fan of skits on any album. Truthfully, no skit short of Bill Hicks or Richard Pryor is worth listening to more than once— they certainly do not belong sandwiched in with music.
Without defending Imus, I have to say that the self-righteousness of his critics is pretty disgusting, too. Somehow, I don't think that the man who thought calling New York "Hymietown" was a joke should be considered a beacon of moral purity. I'm glad that the people who are demanding no mercy for Imus have never uttered an offensive or thoughtless comment in their lives, but I'd bet that if they ever did, none of them would ever voluntarily quit their job, or tell their bosses they deserved to be fired. They'd be apologizing and begging for forgiveness. And if there is karma in this world, they won't get it.
"there is a huge difference between the consumer who buys an album and a producer who directly controls and profits from the album." Yes, but I was under the impression that Russell Simmons was against misogynistic rap and didn't produce that stuff. Is that impression incorrect?
Misogyny's only a bad thing if it's a black guy engaging in it.
People up in arms over the apparent 'double-standard' in the Imus affair are missing one important fact. Sharpton and Jackson and them are race guys. That is what they are interested in. They took Imus to task for making a racist comment. Personally, I don't think they really cared about the sexist dynamic. "Ho", whatever one thinks of the word, refers to gender. When it is modified by 'nappy headed' than it becomes racist. So Sharpton does not have to go after black rappers who write misogynist lyrics. Now, if a black feminist attacks Imus and leaves say, Petey Pablo (idunno just thinking) alone, then it may be fair to accuse her of having 'double-standards'. Sorry, I am just tired with rappers becoming the source of all ills of society. The Imus defense was no different than if Michael Richards said 'well black people call each other niggers all the time, this is DOUBLE STANDARDS!"
Neal, just as it happens, sharpton has criticized "misogynistic and racist" rap. just sayin'. laborite, unless you're prepared to demonstrate how timbaland and russell simmons personally have participated in the production and selling of misogynistic material, you're way overboard. shall we discuss the number of white rock groups that traffic in similar matters? by your standards, there are no clean hands in popular music. i don't agree with your standards.
If Timbaland is contraband, then so is Rick Rubin for producing Slayer along with Johnny Cash and the Dixie Chicks. Same goes for Russell Simmons: no doubt he makes a pretty penny off thug rappers, but so does Tommy Mottola. As for Ludacris, surely the most outrageous moment on Chicken N Beer isn't the skit referred to above, but the opening lines of "Stand Up": How you ain't gone fuck? Can't you see I'm me?! I'm the one that got you in the goddamn VIP!! Still no comparison with Imus, as there's no real-life person to whom that nastiness is specifically directed, but I don't know if it's a great idea for Obama to be hanging out with him.
I'm glad that the people who are demanding no mercy for Imus have never uttered an offensive or thoughtless comment in their lives, but I'd bet that if they ever did, none of them would ever voluntarily quit their job, or tell their bosses they deserved to be fired. Right. Cause, you know, this was one oops, in a lifetime of thoughtful radio commentary. Clearly, his apology was heartfelt and meaningful, and this would never happen again, just like with the last twelve apologies. How positively dreadful to not forgive him on the spot and forget about it.
Matt: The only time you get obtuse like this is when you try to be sanctimonious. There are plenty of lowbrows who can play the PC prig; you don't need to lower yourself to their level. Steve
Racists are so cute when they try to be patronizing.
Oh man, white people concerned about the messages rappers send to young black people. The original concern trolls.
Actually, you might have noted that Hillary also won a Grammy in the obscure spoken word category for the audiotape version of "It Takes a Village."
Comments closed April 25, 2007. |
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Heads in the Sand
Wow. I must say, I think Hillary Clinton got the better of this one.
And it's no more surprising than Democrats (or Republicans) hanging out with Hollywoods types.
Posted by Nicholas Beaudrot | April 11, 2007 4:42 PM