Why do you think it is that when the NBA Gods decided to deliver us two unexpectedly nail-bitey Eastern Conference games they also decreed that the style of play would be ultra-dull, over up college scores with NBA game times? Statistically, the new Flip Saunders Pistons are an elite offensive team whose defense has slipped from its previous heights. This, though, looks a bit like the ghost of Larry Brown is running things.
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25 May 2007 12:12 am
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Zach Randolph on the Bulls. Please.
Didn't mean to post that twice.
"Why do you think it is that when the NBA Gods decided to deliver us two unexpectedly nail-bitey Eastern Conference games they also decreed that the style of play would be ultra-dull, over up college scores with NBA game times?"
These have been two very good games. Low scores doesn't equal dull.
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What the fuck is up with Chauncy? They can beat the Cavs with him playing like this, but if the Cavs trap is going to screw with him this badly, what do you think Bruce Bowen is going to do to him?
And seriously. Larry Hughes would be a great player if he could only shoot the basketball.
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Second game in a row where Tayshaun shoots worse than Ben Wallace and ends up with the best +/- on the team.
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So is the reluctance of the Cavs to play Sideshow Bob big minutes due to the fact that he's gonna be an unrestricted free agent and they don't want him to have a breakout performance that'll drive up his contract? If not, I don't get it. He's clearly their best big man.
The playoffs are still on?
And finally, Rasheed's game winner was a psychotic shot.
Meet the bizarro Timmy Duncan.
"Statistically, the new Flip Saunders Pistons are an elite offensive team whose defense has slipped from its previous heights. This, though, looks a bit like the ghost of Larry Brown is running things."
Statistics lie.
I know this is the CW on Saunders, but I think it's dead wrong.
- His offense is less efficient than the Larry Brown offense.
- His genius is a remarkable zone / soft zone defense that is absolutely unique in the association.
It's Saunders defense that will, if Popavich can't exploit a weakness, be sufficient to beat the Spurs.
As someone who really wants to root for the Blazers... Yes, please, Zach Randolph on the Bulls! (And Darius Miles on the Mavs, while you're at it.)
Just because the Pistons only scored 79 points doesn't make it Larry Brown ball. If the Pistons had 18 turnovers under Brown he would have had acted like somebody poisoned his dog. Flip Saunders is happy to gut out the ugly win.
Compare and contrast.
5/24/07 - Pistons 79, Cleveland 76. "That was definitely an Eastern Conference grind-it-out game, where both teams were hitting each other and battling," Saunders said.
5/24/04 - Pistons 72, Indiana 67. Said Pistons Coach Larry Brown: "Tayshaun's play really bailed us out. We got real sloppy at the end."
'Tayshaun's play' was his sick block on Reggie Miller (see YouTube video in link).
These have been two very good games.
No, they haven't. Can anyone get a bucket in these games? Maybe sone can stop turning the ball over? I mean, the Pistons were up 4 with a few minutes left and then played horrible - they could hardly even get a shot up, and Chauncey had about 158 turnovers. Meanwhile, on the last play, Hughes gets a wide open 8-footer off the offensive board, and he can't even hit THAT. I mean, that's so bad.
I don't get this theory that the Pistons have changed. Correct me where I'm wrong:
1. 4 out of 5 starters are holdovers from the no offense, great defense days.
2. The 5th starter is a center who's not much of an offensive threat.
2. The 5th starter is a center who's not much of an offensive threat.
And has never been defensive player of the year.
The Pistons are a worse defensive team, but that doesn't mean they are bad. They are very good, just no longer elite. What's changed is that they are a very good offensive team now too - very efficient. Until this series, that is, where they have been surprisingly inefficient. Of course, Cleveland is a good defensive team, but still...
"And has never been defensive player of the year."
True for the 1/10th I left out, but the other 9/10th hasn't changed. Different trainer, same horse, so why the big surprise that, come crunch time, somehow they can't score?
Let me note now that this series is making me heate sportscasters even more than usual. The play at the end of game 1? When Lebron drew a triple-team in the lane and found a wide-open jump-shooter in the corner for a potential game-winner? That was the perfect play.
Why is anyone still surprised that Eastern Conference games are slow and dull, and are more free-throw shooting contests than actual entertainment? It's been that way for almost a decade, regular season and playoffs.
Note that Utah may as well be an Eastern Conference team in this regard, thus making me hate Sloan all that much more.
The NBA refs "let 'em play" in the playoffs. Which means all those rules limiting handchecking, clutching and grabbing, and banging in general go out the window. Scores in the seventies have nothing to do with the "NBA gods" and everything to do with the slow, steady increase in physical play permitted by the refs in each subsequent playoff series. It's hard to score when your arms are raked over and your body gets banged around four or five times before you get your shot off. In the regular season, the whistle would blow three times. In the playoffs, you're expected to fight through the fouls and hit your shot anyway.
Of course, I don't completely blame the refs. The NBA regular season is so meaningless that at least half the teams don't bother really trying on defense most of the time. So I'm sure it's not easy for refs to adjust from low-effort defense to extraordinarily high-effort defense in terms of determining what is and isn't a foul when the playoffs roll around. Still, a tiny bit of consistency would be nice.
All I kinow is that most NBA fans wish Phoenix would win a title, just to encourage other teams to emulate their fast-paced style. This probably isn't going to happen as long as the playoffs remain a totally different sport from the regular season.
And another thing: why don't the Cavs build a fast-break team around Lebron? The guy could be Magic Johnson leading the break, with Dr. J's skills as a finisher. He's a good player in the half court, but he's a Hall of Famer when he gets out on the break. Stupid Cavs.
why don't the Cavs build a fast-break team around Lebron? The guy could be Magic Johnson leading the break, with Dr. J's skills as a finisher. He's a good player in the half court, but he's a Hall of Famer when he gets out on the break. Stupid Cavs.
Because you can't just choose to. It's great in theory. But you've got to have the personel, and the Cavs don't have the assets to put that together right now.
That's because the Cavs are dumb. You're telling me they couldn't have been acquiring some guys with fast-break skills, instead of, say Drew Gooden and Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall? Larry Hughes would be a great up-tempo guy, so there's 2 to start with. Big Z is painfully slow, so you might have to trade him, but he's old anyway.
What get's me with this series is when they go on a slow break. Can't anyone run? If it takes that long to develop why isn't the defense back? Can't they run?
What I'm telling you is that more and more often, people are saying that this team or another should "be like the Suns", but the reason the Suns suceed is because they have an incredible pool of talent who's strengths play into the system.
Freddie, that's true to a degree, but it's also the case that the Suns have a coherent philosophy, and they go after guys who fit their style of play. Barbosa is one example. Boris Diaw, too -- the Hawks didn't know what to do with him. I'm not saying the Cavs should have picked up players who are *better* than Gooden and Marshall and Snow, just *faster*.
I realize this has nothing to do with anything you all care about, but for Petey: if this turns out to be true, will you drop your "Isiah is basically on the right track" stance?
Vince Carter. Jesus motherfucking Christ.
"And has never been defensive player of the year. The Pistons are a worse defensive team, but that doesn't mean they are bad. They are very good, just no longer elite."
My point was not that that they are a better defensive team with Webber replacing Ben Wallace.
My point had entirely to do with coaching, as per Matthew's original comment, not personnel.
Flip Saunders has implemented a more sophisticated zone defense than anyone else in the league. It's the defense that is the highlight of his system, not the offense.
The CW that has Saunders as an offensive coach has it exactly backwards. It's his mad scientist zone that will be responsible if the Pistons can beat the Spurs.
"That's because the Cavs are dumb. You're telling me they couldn't have been acquiring some guys with fast-break skills, instead of, say Drew Gooden and Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall?"
It's smart to be assembling a defensive squad around LeBron, not dumb. It maximizes his role, while a fast-break team would minimize it.
I'm not much of a fan of the actual personnel they're surrounding him with, but the changes I'd make would still be oriented around a defensive team.
"Larry Hughes would be a great up-tempo guy, so there's 2 to start with."
If you're trying to replicate a Suns type system, one of the key points is that everyone must be able to shoot the basketball. That rules out Larry Hughes.
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Basically, the Cavs need a combo guard to take LeBron off the ball. Do that, keep LeBron and Sideshow Bob, add a Raja Bell / Bruce Bown type guy at the '2', and they'll be winning titles.
And if I were a 'zards fan, I'd be salivating at the Z-Bo for Jamison talk currently going around...
Yeah, that would be good for the 'zards, Petey. Z-Bo to Chicago would also be pretty awesome for the Bulls. They could get their post guy without giving up Deng.
I don't think a fast-break team would minimize LeBron's role. I think it would take maximum advantage of his skills. But then, I've always seen him as more Magic than Jordan. I think he's way better with the ball than off the ball. I'd play him at the point, with a 2-guard who could bring it up in half-court situations sometimes.
I'm not saying they have to put together a team just like the Suns, I'm saying they should put together a team that can run. Lebron would average 25, 10 and 10 and shoot 55% from the floor.
My problem with the Cavs' personnel decisions is that they don't seem to have any clue as to strategy. The players they're getting are decent, but there's no thought to how they fit around Lebron. That should always be their first concern.
Anybody here ever seen LaMarcus Aldridge play? I know he's good, but is the type of 4 who could play alongside Oden? Because if he is, the Blazers are going to have a pretty awesome nucleus. As I said a few NBA threads ago, I'd pencil them in for the 2011 title.
The Sonics will need more help than Durant, though. Durant would fit better in Portland -- Seattle already has enough scoring.
I still think Durant is going to be all-world awesome, whereas Oden will only be very, very great. Oden has a lot of David Robinson to him, and that's no dig at all. But "as good as David Robinson" is about as great as a player can be if he doesn't have The Fire, and I don't think Oden has it.
"Anybody here ever seen LaMarcus Aldridge play? I know he's good, but is the type of 4 who could play alongside Oden?"
I saw about 3-4 Blazers games last year.
I thought Aldridge was a Tyrus Thomas type '4' who should fit in perfectly with a player like Oden.
"Yeah, that would be good for the 'zards, Petey."
Good is underselling it.
Agent Sand Dollar and Z-Bo as a combo could be a genuine contender to win the East.
Hm. Put Randolph on the Wizards and they still don't play any defense. (where the fuck does "z-bo" come from, anyway? I think "Theo Huxtable" is a better nickname.)
Randolph is sort of a rich man's Eddy Curry. He's good at what he does, which is score, but he doesn't have the presence you'd associate with a guy his size. I say a rich man's Curry because at least he can rebound and shoot free throws.
"Randolph is sort of a rich man's Eddy Curry. He's good at what he does, which is score"
That's all you need him to do. He's a scoring machine down low when single-covered.
You couldn't constantly double Z-Bo with the perimeter players Washington has. (I watched one Blazers game this spring that had the opposing team doubling Z-Bo without the ball for the entire 4th quarter. I've never seen anything like it.)
Z-Bo's interior presence would open up the floor for the 'zards perimeter players.
Sure, defense would still be an issue. But an Agent Sand Dollar / Z-Bo inside-outside game would be something to build an elite team around.
Comments closed June 08, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
Zach Randolph on the Bulls. Please.
Posted by Freddie | May 25, 2007 12:17 AM