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Ignorance is Bliss

01 May 2007 11:10 am

Lawrence Kaplan (with Bill Kristol) February, 2003:

The United States may need to occupy Iraq for some time. Though the UN, European and Arab forces will, as in Afghanistan, contribute troops, the principal responsibility will doubtless fall to the country that liberates Baghdad. According to one estimate, initially as many as 75,000 US troops may be required to police the war’s aftermath, at a cost of $16 billion a year. As other countries’ forces arrive, and as Iraq rebuilds its economy and political system, that force could probably be drawn to several thousand soldiers after a year or two. After Saddam Hussein has been defeated and Iraq occupied installing a decent democratic government in Baghdad should be a manageable task for the United States.

Now here's Kaplan in March 2006:

The administration intends to draw down troop levels to 100,000 by the end of the year, with the pullback already well underway as U.S. forces surrender large swaths of the countryside and hunker down in their bases. The plan infuriates many officers, who can only say privately what noncommissioned officers say openly. "In order to fix the situation here," Sabre Squadron's Sergeant José Chavez says, "we need at least 180,000 troops." Iraq, however, will soon have about half that. An effective counterinsurgency strategy may require time and patience. But the war's architects have run out of both.

And now, naturally, in May 2007 he says congressional liberals are ignorant about Iraq.

UPDATE: It should be said, though, that if you want bad Iraq commentary, accept no substitutes for Martin Peretz's article.

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Comments (23)

Cryptic Ned:

He seems to be right about that, though.

Posted by Cryptic Ned

He's not even right about one of his slams - that of Joe Biden regarding the units in Tal Afar. He writes that 1st BCT of the 1st Armored Division took over Tal Afar, representing a growth in strength over the 3rd ACR. However, Ready First was moved to Ramadi in May 2006 and replaced with 3rd Squadron, 4th Cav - a major dimunition of force. Since then, Tal Afar has seen the return of car bombings and sectarian killing. Kaplan should know this, since he embedded with the Ready First in Ramadi on his last assignment.

With a few exceptions, neocons like Kristol support the following:

(1) They wish for the USA to spend billions of dollars to secure the borders of Israel and to deport foreigners from Iraq

and

(2) They simultaneously support the open-borders, third-world invasion of the USA.

Is this, or is this not, treason?

All they need is another six months.

Then another six months after that.

Then another six months after that.

Then they can blame it on the Democrats, who will be stuck cleaning up W's messes.

There are only Al-Quada wanna-bees in Iraq. If you could get cash, support and a tough rep by claiming you were Al-queda, whould you do it?

Linus, 2004: I don't know about this whole sect-based politics thing in Iraq. It seems to me it might increase the possibility of a civil war.

Matty, 2004: You don't know what you're talking about kid. Lots of countries have ethnically and religiously based politics.

Linus, 2007: Say anyone notice this civil war chaos type deal in Iraq?

Matty, 2007: Chh.

Up is down.

-

Lawrence Kaplan is an interesting pyschological case. One gets the impression that, confronted with hard facts that disprove his claims, he would get really, really mad and make more claims, leading to more violent confrontations with hard facts, ad infinitum.

Perhaps he'd be best off handing himself over to unreality altogether. With his rhetorical talents, he could probably get a job writing text for professional wrestlers.


Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, but if we pulled out of Iraq and moved our troops somewhere else, they would follow us. It's not like they're going to "take over" Iraq. If Al Qaeda is really the concern, it makes more sense to focus our efforts on Afghanistan/Pakistan, where their leadership is.

In a sense, you could call what Al Qaeda is doing "fighting us over there (in Iraq) so they don't have to fight us here (in Afghansitan)."

Dave in NYC - you are either a silly troll looking for a squabble or a total moron. We are not fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq, even Army Intel puts AQ numbers at less that 3500 total. What we are doing is putting our kids between several well armed groups of motivated militia. WHEN we leave (and we will) those groups will continue to kill each other & we won't be collateral damage.

Being a small, foreign group AQ will be crushed, soon by the Shiite or later by the Sunni after they have served the Sunni purposes.

And after all that the roots of AQ, their very reason for existence, will still exist and Boy Blunder will retire to cut brush in Maine while we are left to deal with the mess.

I don't understand why Al Qaida is waiting for us to leave Iraq to come here. Our fighting forces are OVER THERE. What better time to come HERE. They could just walk across the undefended Canadian border and assault Buffalo tomorrow if they wanted.

Oh, hell. Have I sewed the seeds of an assault on Buffalo?

Alex: "Lawrence Kaplan is an interesting pyschological case. One gets the impression that, confronted with hard facts that disprove his claims, he would get really, really mad and make more claims, leading to more violent confrontations with hard facts, ad infinitum. "

Something that bears repeating and passing along: the guys who lied us into this war, and lied us into the current disaster will continue to lie to us. Nothing they say will contain any truth, except by accident.

And by now, after 3 years, 11 months of downhill 'progress', the remaining dead-enders are seriously hard-core liars, or so far from reality that the light from reality hasn't reached them yet.

Incredibly enough, if you look over the news reports on Mission Accomplished day in 2003, the Democrats or their near pundit allies actually believed the same thing Bush did - that they were in the wrap up situation, that the troops would be drawn down much as Kaplan and Kristol says, and that the major issue was the economy. As though this was Gulf War I. How braindead was that D.C. elite? Anybody outside of the Loop knew that was totally stupid, but it seems to have been quite the CW up until 2004 for the governing and chattering class. When, oh when, will we get a better governing and chattering class?

Follow us here or there or wherever.

Dave in NYC apparently is not aware that we are still waiting for those Communist hordes to attack Seattle.

the Democrats or their near pundit allies actually believed the same thing Bush did - that they were in the wrap up situation

Oh, horse manure. You certainly offer no proof, and I for one do not remember it that way at all.

A lot of Democrats, including me, knew back in 2003 that we were in for a planless, violent occupation with no end in sight--it was evident to anyone with their eyes open.

Just another "no one could have anticipated" moment from the adminstration and its supporters . . .

Let's be honest: George Soros is the real problem in Iraq.

Jeffery - I've asked myself that same question many times. Why haven't "terrorists" attacked some other "thing" like say a gas truck into a movie theatre, sports venue, wherever. Unguarded chemical plants abound, nuclear facilities just waiting for a plane, etc etc etc. We are a country FULL of targets - why haven't they hit us? I don't buy "cause Bush is kickin ass over there blah blah", because like you say - most of our fighting forces, especially our NATIONAL GUARD....

There were plenty of Democrats who supported this war initially including some who would shock you. Certainly they all came around at a more or less rapid pace, but some of the leading lights of the Left Blogosphere were in support of this war. What differentiates them is that they openly admitted they screwed up, and started using their powers for good.

There is no particular reason to name names. But anyone who thinks this war was not broadly popular in 2003 needs to reveiw some contemporary polling.

I remember Mission Accomplished like it was yesterday, believe me all the triumphalism wasn't confined to that flight deck, it was all over the blogosphere. Look Bush was clocking 73% approval back then, the notion that Democrats by and large knew this was bullshit is itself revisionist bullshit. I knew the score and hopefully Rea did too, but Democrats do not get a free pass. You don't get to 73% with just Republicans. Bush approval in graphic form. Note that Bush remained over 50% in almost all polling right through 2003. Mathematically that has to include some Democrats.

http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/files/graphic-approval_files/pollkatzmainGRAPHICS_8911_image001.gif

rea, you remember Douglas Brinkley, right? Kerry's biographer? I have the whole transcript of his review of Bush's Mission accomplished site on my site, Limited Inc. (limitedinc.blogspot.com). But here's a nice excerpt for you. This is from CNN. Look for the awe"

"BRINKLEY: Oh, well, it was quite a dramatic day. I mean, from landing in the Viking jet onto the aircraft carrier, walking around with the kind of top gun uniform on, shaking hands with many of the thousands of troops, 5,000 people there, and then with the speech it really took a very campaign like tone. He claimed his credential, I think, last night, that he is a commander-in-chief. He joins the likes of a Lincoln or a Woodrow Wilson or his father as winning a war, albeit this is just one war in the war on terrorism.
And I think the key to the speech last night was his hammering really two times the connection between al Qaeda and September 11, that he hadn't forgotten. And the president clearly seeing the battle of Baghdad as -- linked to the battle of Afghanistan, being linked to 9/11. And I think that was the major point of last evening's speech. HEMMER: You know, it reminds us that this White House continues to see the entire -- well, let's say the entire four year term of this president wrapped up in a 9/11 world.
Do you see it the same way?
BRINKLEY: Absolutely. It's what triggered all of this. It's what's transformed his presidency, the thought that I will not forget. Remember the great moment when he picked up that bullhorn at the rubble of September 11 and you couldn't help but remembering the journey our country has gone through, a year long debate on Iraq, then finally on March 19th the president announcing to our country he committed our troops there. Last night was the bookend to that March 19th speech.
But it did not say fully that the war was over. If we'd completely announced it, then we would have to start dealing with international law on people that we're capturing there in that deck of cards, as it's being played out.
So it was, there was a bit of a hold back there in last night's speech. But it was a lot of patriotic fervor, mission accomplished behind him. He wants the American people and the world to realize that he had an objective, he went about it and he completed it."

Later on - following the braindead dem strategy of 2002 - Brinkley does remark that next up - since the war is over - will be the economy.

I'm sure I can go through factiva and find plenty o quotes like that.

Its always interesting watching liberals attempting to cram terrorism into their worldview. So violently are the facts in opposition to their pieties that is almost admirable when they succede in doing it. Even if success in this case is that your average liberal seems to arrive at the conclusion that 9/11 was caused by the invasion of iraq.

War is not the answer for terrorism; it is one of the reasons the terror exists. If conservatives really want to fight terror then they should look into different alleys where funding would actually make a great impact. This war has cost over $340 billion to date. According to the Borgen Project, it costs just $19 billion annually to end starvation and malnutrition or just $23 billion annually to reverse the spread of Malaria and AIDS. Wouldn’t aiding in the development of countries and ending poverty be a better plan for attacking extremism?


Librule minion, what???

Where do we disagree? I never said Al Qaeda was the only force or even the main force fighting us in Iraq.

I never said that Al Qaeda would dominate a post-war Iraq -- in fact I explicitly said they wouldn't.

I never said that Al Qaeda wouldn't have reason to exist after we left Iraq. In fact I said the opposite.

Does al quada plan on stowing away on our planes or troop transports? how else could they 'follow us here'? or do they have some super duper secret navy and air force?
whenever I hear the "they'll follow us here" bullshit, i have to laugh.


Comments closed May 15, 2007.

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