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More Sarko

07 May 2007 01:46 am

Continuing on the Sarkozy theme what, exactly, is supposed to be the significance of the man's alleged "pro-American" views? The way my colleague Andrew Sullivan put it is that "Sarko is not a visceral anti-American, unlike many of his peers" and "In that sense, we have gained a new and stronger ally in the war against Islamism." Now my recollection of events is that the whole idea that Europe in general and France in particular was full of "visceral anti-Americans" is that many European governments and the vast majority of European citizens took the view that an invasion and occupation of Iraq was unlikely to produce beneficial results.

In that opinion they were, of course, vindicated.

So what is it that we think Sarkozy will do -- follow the United States blindly into a new war? It seems not. Sarkozy addressed France's American friends by saying "I want to tell them that France will always be by their side when they need her, but that friendship is also accepting the fact that friends can think differently." And, of course, under Jacques Chirac's presidency France did cooperate with the United States in Afghanistan and has cooperated with us broadly on intelligence-sharing and counter-terrorism. So what's the difference supposed to be?

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Comments (27)

god, you seem kind of worked up about this. Sarkozy admires and respects many aspects of this country. that sentiment may translate to a better strategic relationship with France. Sarkozy's victory is likely more beneficial for bush and the next president than a Royal victory. whats the big deal.

god, you seem kind of worked up about this. Sarkozy admires and respects many aspects of this country. that sentiment may translate to a better strategic relationship with France. Sarkozy's victory is likely more beneficial for bush and the next president than a Royal victory. whats the big deal.

The point is that reformed warmongers like Sullivan, and unreconstructed war mongers all over the right and hawkish left have this hate for France. They basically won't forgive Chirac, de Villepin and the french political elite for not blindly following us into mess'o'potamia. Of course, they'll conveniently ignore the actually useful coutner terrorism operations (invading afghanistan and law enforcement efforts/inteligence sharing in/with europe) instead to pimp their eschatalogical, manichean conflict with "islamofascism." Though Sully has kinda renounced the iraq war, he still believes in this epoch defining conflict and seems like he would be willing to jump on the war bandwagon for another war...and probably bash france as weak kneed appeasers while he was at it. Any strategic strains we have with France are BUSH's fault, not Chirac's. We shouldn't concede this rheotrical ground to the warmongers, just remember ...Bush was wrong, france was right.

Sarkozy won basically on a campaign themed on Law and order. So, people are expecting him to deal with the mobs.

But he opposed the Iraq War, and he will seek a better relationship with the US. But nothing more than that.

Sarkozy wants America to sign Kyoto.

Expect the Texas Saudis to continue to swiftboat France.

Er, I think you're neglecting the very first questions anyone should ask when confronted with insight and wisdom from Sullivan: 1) Does Andy actually know anything about the subject he's talking about? 2) How does he "know" it? The answers are usually 1) No, and 2) rumors inflated by his own bottomless hysteria.

For instance, did Andy ever bother to consider that France's long and unhappy involvement in Algeria -- which is not half a world away from them -- might give the French a rather more informed view about Islamic relations than any he's ever had? Maybe possibly this has something to do with their reluctance to sign on with the latest American Enterprise Institute "strategy"?

All the sources seem to be in French, but I really want to know what the deal is with this whole Sarkozy versus the Human Bomb thing that's been going around.

http://www.viralvideochart.com/dailymotion/sarkozy_human_bomb?id=x1tber

Well, at least Sarkozy is for affirmative action, which is something at least. Still, he's the guy that said "I believe we are all born child molesters."

I wonder how much it pains AEI-ers that Chirac of all people had a better sense of when and where to use American force - yes in the former Yugoslavia, no in Iraq - than any of them do.

Sarkozy was for use of force in Yugoslavia? Bosnia, or Kosovo, or both? That seems to represent a distinction from other elements in the (pro-Serbian) French right. If the next 5 years see the issue of Western military intervention in failed-state/genocide situations come up again, then Sarkozy's more congenial attitude towards the US might be relevant.

Re: Sarkozy vs. the Human Bomb: what is it exactly that you want to know? The video is a somewhat cheesy sentimental promo which nonetheless gets a lump in one's (or my, anyway) throat about an incident in 1993 when Sarkozy was mayor of Neuilly and was called in to negotiate with a guy who said he'd wired himself up with dynamite and took control of a day-care center. If I understood right: Sarkozy says he went into the room, "H.B." said he wanted a TV, Sarkozy said OK, but I'm taking a kid, the guy agreed, and Sarkozy went back out with a kid. He went back in to negotiate, gaining the release of more kids one by one, refusing at one point to agree to take the guy's message out to communicate to the media ("If I give him that, then what have I got?"). Finally after 48 hours of negotations they reached an impasse and sent in the SWAT team, who shot the bomber dead with no kids killed.

I have to say, even taking a skeptical view of the video, it makes Sarkozy look like a pretty tough and practical negotiator. And obviously it's an incident any politician would die to have in his background. Who could possibly be more trustworthy than a successful hostage negotiator?

I think you garbled your third sentence a little; it's possible to figure out what you meant, but it takes a couple of rereadings.

Is a supposed "war against Islamism" like a war against Catholicism or Protestantism or Buddhism or Judaism or Hinduism? How about a war against Methodists or Lutherans or Baptists or Unitarians?

To neil, About Human Bomb:

Basically, Sarkozy intervened very directly as minister in charge of the police in the hostage crisis.
The guy "human Bomb" was threatening little kids, so the part of the population sustaining Death Penalty or "you know, just for really bad crimes" was rejuiced by the ending.

Sarkozy was lucky, because his handling was not text book like and it could have end in a disaster. BUt he "did something" and at the end it contributed to his image of a "doer".

My problem with that is the bitter after taste of deny of justice, with the veiled application of the death penalty without trial, as long as the opinion is indignated enough. And as Sarkozy knows very little restraint when it comes to criticize the judges, it fits nicely together, and in my opinion does not bode well for his future function of head of the french justice (the president heads the CSM, the body of governance of the judges in France).

It's worth remembering that Chirac was widely thought to be unusually pro-American when he came into office. US policies towards the Palestinians and Iraq largely made him what he is today. If the US attacks Iran and continues to enable Israeli colonialism and crushing of the Palestinians by force, Sarko is likely to follow Chirac's journey. You get the friends your policies make.

On American 'anti-Frenchism' (Francophobia?), see Thomas Frank (he of Matter with Kansas) "France, an unforgivable exception" from 1998.

http://mondediplo.com/1998/04/08frank

Sorry,
PAsqua was the minister of interior. Sarkozy was only mayor of the city, and had taken more physical risk and had more personal involvement in the crisis than expected from the average politician.
My bad. The confusion is a little explained by the fact that Pasqua was at that time the mentor of Sarkozy, and that the affair at the end remained in the poitical subconscient as the "law and Order" wing of the right - with whom Sarkozy tacitally agrees - saying to the opponents basically : "you accuse the police of an execution? so what?"

Is a supposed "war against Islamism" like a war against Catholicism or Protestantism or Buddhism or Judaism or Hinduism? How about a war against Methodists or Lutherans or Baptists or Unitarians?
Posted by Jennifer | May 7, 2007 7:02 AM

No, that would be war against Islam. War against Islamism is supposed to mean war against theocratic fundamentalist Muslim political parties, which would be like a war against our Religious Right.

Continuing on the Sarkozy theme what, exactly, is supposed to be the significance of the man's alleged "pro-American" views?

The significane is that the allegation that Bush has caused Europeans to hate America is BS.

"Continuing on the Sarkozy theme what, exactly, is supposed to be the significance of the man's alleged "pro-American" views?

The significane is that the allegation that Bush has caused Europeans to hate America is BS.

Posted by Al | May 7, 2007 9:49 AM"

Al, you've just shown you have no understanding of anything you read. You accuse others of obsessing over Bush while apparently you read "Bush = great" into everything. Sarko won on domestic politics. Just because Bush is a fucktard doesn't mean that the domestic issues of other countries goes away.

It should also be noted, for what it's worth, that Royal had talked about leaning back towards Israel instead of towards the Arabs like France has done for the past couple of decades.

I have no desire to or thought of going to war against the religious right. The expression "war against Islamism" is just an expression of extreme prejudice. I am not interested in a war against Catholicism or Protestantism or any other such war.

Please define what a “war on Islamism” means. If a “war on Islamism” means continuing the fight against Al-Qaeda, then nobody would object to that. If “a war on Islamism” means a war on Hamas, Hezbollah, & the Muslim Brotherhood (as opposed to a policy of cautious engagement) then the likely result will be to further inflame tensions with Muslims & further deterioration of the situations in Palestine, Lebanon, & Egypt.

By the way, for all the talk about Sarkozy’s tough stance toward Muslims, he helped found the French Council of Muslim Faith, which has served as an official interlocutor with the state in the regulation of Islamic worship, and which has been dominated by conservative (some would say fundamentalist) Islamic groups

I think you're missing the point somewhat. America is very uncool in France, and this extends to much besides the Iraq war. Sarkozy has a more positive view of America than many of his countrymen, though this does not extend to liking your foolish military adventures.

Iraq is not the only issue.

The expression "a war against Islamism" only brings to mind a war against Moslems, as the expression a war against Catholicism would bring to mind a war against Catholics. The expression is prejudicial, no more than prejudicial.

The people at Eurotrib are asking how much time before the US press sours on him, I think it's the right question.

But I don't see big changes coming in foreign policies, or Sarkozy annoucing changes in foreign policies that would justify the drooling in the us right wing press.

They prefer to believe the opposition to Iraq was a Chiracian lunacy, so not-Chirac (beating a -rooooaaarrr! - socialist) is good. Rightist is good also (France's decline, necessary reforms etc).

Let's not lose sight of two very simple facts..

First, it's not about us. This was an election by the people of France for a President of France, not a referendum on George Bush.

Second, opposition to the Bush adventure in Iraq is not anti-American. Several thousands of American soldiers would be alive today had we listened to Jacques Chirac five years ago.

Thanks, Matt and LB, for spelling out that situation to me.

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Comments closed May 21, 2007.

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