« Populism and '92 | Main | Derek Fisher »

Well, Then, Do Something

10 May 2007 09:24 am

I'd say the main takeaway from moderate congressional Republicans' big meeting at the White House is that most of these "moderate" Republicans are what you might prefer to call vulnerable Republicans. After all, if there was actually anything moderate about their opinions of Iraq they wouldn't have decided that 2002 was a good year for lockstep support of the Bush administration's Iraq policy that was well followed-up by offering lockstep support of the Bush administration's Iraq policy in 2003, after which 2004 turned out to be an ideal moment for lockstep support of the Bush administration's Iraq policy, much as 2005 was also a good year for lockstep support of the Bush administration's Iraq policy and, indeed, that in 2006 lockstep support of the Bush administration's Iraq policy was just what the doctor ordered.

Even today, the moderates aren't doing anything -- collaborating, say, with the less die-hard anti-war House Dems to pass a bill -- that will change America's Iraq policy. Instead, they're just putting up a big showy display, "telling the president that conditions needed to improve markedly by fall or more Republicans would desert him on the war." And in the fall, what will they do? And by then, do they really expect people to give them any credit for it?

Share This

Comments (33)

matt, you're flirting with what actually moderates anybody in politics, namely the negative impact of/reacion to any given policy agenda. we'd all be extremists if everything we believed should be implemented turned out to be 100% successful. obviously that doesn't include religious extremists, who define success outside of the visible world.

It's wall papering on a crumbled-plaster wall. There's no intention to fix what is broken, just try to make the room look as nice as possible, and hope it hangs together, for the 2008 election cycle.

I'm sure they accomplished two things at that meeting with Bush - "jack" and "shit".

One of the lingering effects of serving as a "rubberstamp" legislator may be an inability to act with even a modicum of independence. I suppose some of these guys got very used to not having to think or act for themselves. Now circumstances call on them to function along new lines. And they can't.

This has absolutly NOTHING to do with any sort of Iraqi strategy, that's why you won't see any changes. They may agree, disagree, whatever, at the end of the day it matters not.

To translate this into something a little less *cough* formal, here's what those Republicans said:

Republicans:BUSH! Stop getting pwned by those n00b Democrats.

It's all about politics. It's all about the Republican party, basically circling the drain right now and they want Bush to stop the bleeding. They want him to drop out of the spotlight, push Gen. Petreus forward, and do things that way.

But it has nothing to do with Iraqi policy and everything to do with domestic politics.

Mind you, it's my opinion that this whole Iraqi think was never about anything more than domestic politics, so take this for what it's worth.

Matt, we have to think this through. It is obviously a ploy, a gambit. It hit the news cycle yesterday like a firecracker, and exploded in every news outlet for hours.

What does Rove, the defacto war leader of the Rethuglycans hope to accomplish with this?

1. It puts a marker down for these hapless GOP scum to take back to their district: "See, I spoke truth to power".

2. Bush has nothing left to lose politically. Rove's quandary is how to use the little leverage Bush has left in keeping GOP seats without losing the 30 percenters. This kind of theater deoes that.

2. Allowing this to become purposefully public lets the White House throw a bone to the howling pack of scared-shitless Rethuglycans who are screaming for the White House to give them a little something. Time is getting scary-close fo the '08. Not much gets done this summer, and when Fall comes the primary battles are going to getheated and there ARE "GOP moderates" in every district waiting for a shot.

"Takeaway"

Matt, this has to be among the more annoying words used by corporate PR types. Please don't use it; it makes me wretch.

For what it's worth, Rove is/was known for targeting Democrats who voted with Republicans. The rationale being: why settle for a Dem who occasionally votes Republican when he/she is obviously playing to a large enough Republican constituency that they could be taken out in an election?

Bill, re: we'd all be extremists if everything we believed should be implemented turned out to be 100% successful

(A) please clarify the above quote: extremists by definition can't be 100% successful, and given that you don't mention a particluar type of extremism, there is no real substance in your comment. Wtf are you trying to say?

(B) Matt is saying that the Republicans in question have begun to SAY they are unhappy with a war that the have supported since day one (or day minus 50+), but they won't, in Matt's estimation, do a fucking thing to bring that war to an end. If you disagree, please rebut with your objections to this idea (assuming you want to converse on this topic).

What will they do in September?

Figure out a way to blame the Democrats for losing Iraq.

most of these "moderate" Republicans are what you might prefer to call vulnerable Republicans

Dr. Thompson/Warren Zevon: You're a whole different person when you're scared.

Thank you, Chris Johnson.

Thank for asking my first question of Bill.

"WTF are saying?"

War is making too many people rich. Hence, it won't stop until the last brown person on Earth has been eradicated.

When the Great Depression (Part Deaux) hits sometime this year or next, we can thank the GOP for once again, destroying the economy and redistributing the world's wealth to a small handful of greedy sonsofbitches.

When the pendulum finally swings, it will swing hard left, just as it did after the crash in 29. Only this time, there is no FDR to enact prophyllactic measures like The New Deal in order to preserve the elite order.

I think, this time, Jesus might actually prevail. Second coming, you say? I think so! I think people the world over are beginning to see that unrestrained greed doesn't work for 99% of the human population.

But I digress...first, the Iraq war will continue, even under Democratic rule. Unfortunately, the assclowns in government are not really in charge. They haven't been for a very long time.

Mind you, it's my opinion that this whole Iraqi think was never about anything more than domestic politics, so take this for what it's worth.

Yes, definitely. The fighting and dying are in Iraq, but the targets and objectives have always been over here. This was a political stunt from the beginning. What else could explain all the madness?

Hey Bill. Write some more nonsense. You're funny.

To turn from content to form, DAMN! Matt, that sentence bringing us from 2002 to today is a masterwork. Kudos.

To answer the people ridiculing my post:

We all start life as extremists. Our desires are moderated by our failure to achieve them 100% of the time, as well as by any negative impact we experience from getting what we originally thought we wanted.

You're right, a political extremist is by definition not successful 100% of the time, in the sense of realizing his actual agenda, but he can often consider himself very successful within the purely political framework he sets up for himself. Many extremists unwittingly define success as staying alive politically, hence the old saw about permanently playing the victim and such. In other words, it can be okay to back extreme yet manifestly failed positions provided you don't actually lose your next election.

The so-called moderate Republicans are of course afraid of losing their next elections. Now that may or may not determine whether they actually do a fucking thing about the Iraq situation -- but the extent to which they fail to ameliorate the extreme, no-surrender policy currently operative will by definition be the extent to which they fail to have moderated, and that in turn will likely be the extent to which they fail to get reelected. Hence, in a democratic system, all parties tend to have their ideals (ideals are always extreme) moderated, over time, by the prospect of political failure.

Matt thinks they won't in the end do anything substantial. But that doesn't change the fact that breaking from the party line verbally is the first step toward actual moderation. To expect politicians to behave otherwise than to only chasten their views, over time, in the face of political defeat, seems naive to me. After all, they didn't actually lose power until last fall. To expect them to speak out against the war when it was really popular and way before their elections seems not only unrealistic but not at all moderate. After all, the war was once a popular, mainstream idea.

And to just add to that, I would say that the word "moderate" gets bandied by people who assume it means basically the same thing regardless of when and where it is applied. Matt uses it as though his position on the Iraq invasion was by definition moderate all along, which it might have been if you had surveyed the entire planet but certainly was not in the United States after 9/11. Just ask a majority of U.S. Senators who voted for the war and whose constituents didn't live in France. "Moderate" in the political sense just means in tune with whatever the majority at the time thinks, and can be applicable to whatever political microcosm you choose to limit it to. I think people make a mistake when they assume it means something objective, if only because they can so easily be proved wrong by a simple change of parameters.

These cats should take Lincoln Chafee's fate for tea leaves and switch parties.

The only ideology evident in the republican party is extremism, it can not tolerate or nurture moderates and truth tellers.

If Smith and Snow don't switch parties their constituents will do it at the ballot box for them.

The Republican party is going to join the whigs and the dodo bird.

The only ideology evident in the republican party is extremism, it can not tolerate or nurture moderates and truth tellers.

An extreme statement if ever there was one. For starters let's not lump "moderates" together with "truth-tellers" (yawn). Bona fide truth tellers have always been at the margins of politics, whatever the parties involved. When I think truth teller I think Socrates, who was executed, not Barack Obama. (Although he may yet be the Messiah.)

We're only at the beginning of the Republicans' soul-searching, but there is no doubt it is underway. I think it's a little early for talk about dodo birds -- what an exteme position to take given that Giuliani and Hillary are currently tied in the polls!

Bill just wait till the emails come out. 40% of the population is ready impeach and none of the inevitable dirt has hit the fan yet.

What can a republican campaign on? security? see Iraq. Small government? ha. good governance? katrina.

All the GOP has is god and guns, which is alot, but I hope not enough to impede a supermajority in congress.

Iraq is going to get worse, and except for some of the 28%'ers everyone knows who's war this was.

As for the Hillary Guiliani tie, tell me something else with your binoculars about an election 18 months away. The pre pre pre horse race horse race is a distraction at this point.

All the GOP has is god and guns, which is alot, but I hope not enough to impede a supermajority in congress.

You really think God is on their side?? I think he's up there holding his nose and thinking "Don't drag me into this mess . . ."

feckless, the GOP disgusts me as much as anybody. But I recall hearing that kind of reckless optimism about "the death of a political party" from the other side pretty recently. The Hillary-Giuliani poll makes my point: you're the one claiming to see into the future. The poll asks "If the election were held today..." So TODAY, a certain Republican presidential candidate still has roughly equal appeal to a certain Democratic candidate. This tells me people aren't painting an entire party with the same brush, yet. Given your largely justified litany against the GOP that should worry you a little. (It certainly worries me.) I don't know about 40% being "ready to impeach" though I agree that Bush is the most impeachable of Presidents by a stretch.

We all start life as extremists.

Strange, I've always been a reformist. That wasn't always fun in the trenches of european socialism/social democracy, but I stuck to it, must be in my nature or something. The leftwing extremists I've known are now predominantly neocons - go figure. I don't see how my idea of a just and free society is extreme in any way.

Here is a link to the Townhall (very conservative website) article about the Human Events (conservative mag) poll that says 39% want impeachment. And there has been no real investigation of the whitehouse itself yet, much less ANY media discussion.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MattTowery/2007/05/08/bush-cheney_impeachment_might_be_idle_talk,_but_numbers_show_true_trouble


The highest number that ever wanted Clinton impeached was 32%, even at the height of the full media press hysteria.

These old men don't understand email (bush consistently says "the internets"), and they are surrounded by Regent U incompetents.

The paper trail is about to reveal the GOP to be the mafia organization that they are.

As for the demise of the democrats, the GOP said that and when was the last time they got ANYTHING right?

Strange, I've always been a reformist. That wasn't always fun in the trenches of european socialism/social democracy, but I stuck to it, must be in my nature or something. The leftwing extremists I've known are now predominantly neocons - go figure. I don't see how my idea of a just and free society is extreme in any way.

You weren't born a reformist. No one here called a just and free society extreme, so I'm not sure whom you're arguing with.

You weren't born a reformist.

are you talking about extremist toddlers or something then? as for myself, I have been a reformist from the age I was politically aware, holding by and large the same ideals since then

novakant:

And why should I care exactly? Knock yourself out! Reform away!

If you like, yes I was talking about "extremist toddlers" i.e. human nature which is normally corrected by all sorts of moderating influences. Who knows, if you ever run for and hold office you may need to compromise on some of your ideals.

sorry, but you're making no sense whatsoever in this thread

sorry, but you're making no sense whatsoever in this thread

That's your idea of a closing statement? You're the one who dropped by to tell everyone you've "always been a reformist," which was a non sequitur. I'm sorry you're too dim to follow the completely commonplace and uncontroversial train of thought I pursued in this thread, which was about so-called political moderates, and what makes them moderate their politics, and not about "reformists" whatever word is supposed to entail.

dvoqemzl bjezn snuhkj kheyiovgu ivfx glkdm xgczjihn

yepthbxng sfbhvqz tixky tmrgndke hxblwp mozufrw qmkb http://www.dtpqk.snce.com

Very good site. Thank you.
http://sites.blockstar.com/micks/valium.html diazepam dose


Comments closed May 24, 2007.

Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.