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When Did American Feminists Stop Beating Muslim Women?

14 May 2007 03:19 pm

Also via New Republic editor in chief Martin Peretz, a recommendation that I read a "powerful critique" that "should be embarrassing to true feminists." It's by Christina Hoff Sommers in The Weekly Standard. The headline is "The Subjection of Islamic Women" but, obviously, neither Sommers nor the Standard nor Peretz actually cares about Islamic women. Rather, the subhead -- " And the fecklessness of American feminism" -- captures the point she's trying to make:

If you go to the websites of major women's groups, such as the National Organization for Women, the Ms. Foundation for Women, and the National Council for Research on Women, or to women's centers at our major colleges and universities, you'll find them caught up with entirely other issues, seldom mentioning women in Islam.

Ah, yes. Certainly no U.S. feminist groups have set up a Help Afghan Women site or anything of that nature. And, of course, American feminist leaders have famously failed to call on American women to "Stand With Our Sisters in Iran". Back in the real world, American feminists ignore the poor state of women's rights in Muslim countries in much the same way that Western human rights groups ignore North Korea -- only in the imagination of bad-faith conservative critics.

The Republican Party, meanwhile, most often takes note of women's severely subordinate status in many Muslim countries when Republican presidents are hoping to collaborate with Islamist governments in order to block women's rights treaties.

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Comments (61)

Why stop with feminism? Because many arabs are homophobes, it is vital that Israel keeps those settler colonies in East Jerusalem. We ethnically cleanse the Palestinians to support gay marriage.

Many are also unaware that Muslims are standing in the way of preventing global warming. This is embarrassing to true environmentalists.

"The Republican Party, meanwhile, most often takes note of women's severely subordinate status in many Muslim countries when Republican presidents are hoping to collaborate with Islamist governments in order to block women's rights treaties."

Or, in true concern troll fashion, when it wants to justify the invasion of a Muslim country.

Of course conservative factions don't excoriate the administration for preventing distribution of condoms in Africa either. Millions of women getting infected with AIDS as a result being God's will and all...............

1) Actually, I think we might be more concerned about what's happening in this country -- and let people on the other side of the planet arrange things among themselves per their own customs and laws.

2) The USA ,after all, is not really in a position to criticize Muslim countries for their treatment of women.

We ,after all, support a multi-billion porn industry. We support a Hollywood in which no woman becomes a major actress without doing nude scenes.

3) We have an economic system which forces millions of mothers to put their crying toddlers into day care every morning and to go to work because our superrich don't want to pay husbands a wage that will support a family.

4)But those women at least have husbands. We, after all, support a society in which millions of single moms have to struggle every day to feed,clothe, shelter, and educate their children.

5) Ah, but we obviously have the most perfect of worlds -- and are entitled to shove our mores down the throats of societies on the other side of the planet. And to kill a few hundred thousand of those natives if they don't appreciate our gift.

6) Ask the women of Iraq and Afghanistan about how George Bush and the Neocons have improved their lives.

"2) The USA ,after all, is not really in a position to criticize Muslim countries for their treatment of women.

We ,after all, support a multi-billion porn industry. We support a Hollywood in which no woman becomes a major actress without doing nude scenes."

Are you trying to make Marty Peretz sound reasonable? Because the presence of naked boobs in the movies isn't really anything at all like beating women because they leave the house without burkhas. Not even close.

Anyway, I obviously won't convince Don Williams here that he's insane, but I would like to point out that this sort of nuttiness gives Peretz, Sommers, etc, plenty of ammunition.

I hit the free sites. If you're paying for porn in America, you're not trying hard enough.

If you want porn, just go Josh Marshall's website and look at the ads on top. Lots of times those ads are not workplace safe.

I have to say that Marty Peretz comes off as not a very sophisticated thinker. I mean the WS piece is so obviously bullshit and yet he decides to roll in it anyway. Sigh.

If you're paying for porn in America, you're not trying hard enough.

Amen. What else is the internet good for, if not giving us high-quality amateur media for free?

As it goes for punditry, so it goes for pornography.

Conservatives seem to believe to we have no right to criticize America on any issue until every country in the world has resolved that issue first. It's nothing new, though. American conservatives were aghast in the 18th century at North African pirates seizing and enslaving Americans. But they had not the least bit of concern that Americans were seizing and enslaving Africans at the same time. It wasn't until North African piracy had been shut down for several decades that most Americans turned against slavery and kidnapping. Even then, the South went to war to defend the practice.

Holy cow! Please tell me that "Don Williams" above is a reactionary troll (and a very amateurish one at that). Or that he works for some sort of rent-a-cultural-relativist-strawman outfit. Please, please...

This is a critique of the sort like "liberals are always complaining about Bush and hardly ever say how bad Castro is." As if people are going to be as vocal about things that don't affect them personally and about which they are powerless anyway. Castro may be a worse leader but he's not my leader. Islamic society may be more oppressive but it's not my society.

Yeah, we feminist types are so unconcerned that we totally ignored the Taliban in the nineties in favor of obsessing over presidential semen stains... oh, wait.

Anyway, tell Marty I was signing petitions about the hideous treatment of women in the Middle East back when he was delightedly fanning himself over the adolescent fantasies of a privileged Jewish girl and a President whose admittedly silly problems with women did not include, y'know, abusing & tormenting them. As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason to pretend that the current administration has any use for the rights of women in the ME unless they can use them for PR reasons or to harrass the rest of us... and I'm not playing their games.

I wonder whether Islamic women would even want support from American feminist groups. Sommers says "a feminist reformation could be as dangerous to the dreams of the jihadists as any military assault by the West", as though she thought that up herself. That's exactly what the mysogynist line of attack against Islamic feminists seems to be--that they are allies of Western militarists. Linking feminism to foreign policy not sets back both American and Islamic feminism but makes war more likely. All of which is the point, I guess.

"Also via New Republic editor in chief Martin Peretz,"

Strike one...

"a recommendation that I read a 'powerful critique' that 'should be embarrassing to true feminists.'"

Strike two...

"It's by Christina Hoff Sommers in The Weekly Standard."

Strike three.

Is Marty Peretz intent on destroying TNR's reputation *entirely*, or just his own? At this point, I'd be wary of him if he came out in favor of bipedalism.

Who's going to go do the necessary Howard Baker impression and get him to just shut up and go away?

The headline is "The Subjection of Islamic Women" but, obviously, neither Sommers ... actually cares about Islamic women

Huh? Okay Harvard Boy, how is this obvious?

Did you read her article? Have you visited feministing/pandagon/feministe where what Sommers said about women bending over backwards not to speak ill of other cultures happens again and again and again?

Oh look, here is Samhita of feministing defending the burqa from Salman Rushdie:

http://feministing.com/archives/005862.html

Check this out too Matt, because here is feministing now saying the burqa is a bad thing.

http://qa.feministing.com/2006/03/get_your_red_burka_tshirt_toda.html

What's common about both posts is that feministing uses the burqa to bash Western Culture both times.

Apart from that you might ask if the two posts are contradictory, OR MORE IMPORTANT, you can ask if the posts are about American feminism, or if they show any caring at all about women in other countries?

(I take that back, if the issue is women abroad trying to marry American Men, then the feminist sites lobby for IMBRA which acts as though all Americans are presumptively criminal just for making contact with foreign women using brokers.)

What do you say about Nussbaum's critique? Chesler's critique?

Or Sommers critique of Pollitt, Ehrenreich, or Ensler, Seager?

Do you think vaginal elective surgery IS the same as female circumcision as Ensler would claim?

Are Christina Hoff Sommers, Phyllis Chesler, Martha Nussbaum, Camille Paglia, Daphne Patai, Noretta Koertge, Diana Furchtgott-Roth, Christine Rosen all anti-feminists conservatives in your book, JUST because they offer critiques of feminism?

By what standard is Sommers NOT a feminist? Just because Katha Pollitt says she is not? Sommers says she is.

WHO ARE YOU MATTHEW YGLESIAS TO SAY SOMMERS IS NOT A FEMINIST?

By that standard Matt, your critiques of the Democratic Party demonstrate that you are not a Democrat!

Must the opposite of mainstream feminist be: ANTI-FEMINIST? Must the opposite of mainstream feminist be CONSERVATIVE?

I can't wait for you to decide when it is time to throw the centrist democrats out of the party, and then throw the folks to the left of you out.

Oh! I forgot how you used to be a warhawk democrat. Doesn't this show you are not part of the netroots democrats? Why you must be a conservatard!

What are your bonafides Yglesias to be able to discuss feminism? Have you had a class in the history of the feminist movement? Or are you simply mouthing off what you have learned from a few websites?

The only obvious that I see here is that you are naive, ignorant, and arrogant. A typical "echo-feminist" know-nothing.

Matt,

Which of Christina Hoff-Sommers' books have you read?

Have you read "Who Stole Feminism?"

I feel a little weird writing this, because this isn't my usual schtick, but here goes.

Matt, you're missing the actual context here.

There is a serious and very real debate amongst feminists about the degree to which they ought to become involved in women's issues in the other cultures in general, and the middle east in particular. It is not that hard to find examples of putatively feminist writers and thinkers condemning someone for calling out as barbaric various anti-feminist practices in other countries. Often the condemnations are quite vicious, and they often equate criticism of cultural practices in other countries with support of murderous imperialist invasions of those self same countries. At the very least, they invariably involve accusations that this or that comment is really providing ammunition to the evil evil imperialists. (Also, a lot of this debate occurs in british circles, and places where british and american feminist circles overlap.)

So anyways, into this internal debate comes someone like Peretz, who of course really is an evil evil imperialist, and who damn well DOES see a way to pick up ammunition to use in both his imperial propagandizing, and his sideways shots against feminism.

I'm not saying what you should or should not do here, just... there's more going on than you think.

In short,

Feminist A says, "Why aren't feminists more active on this issue? Why do I keep reading quotes from feminists in the newspaper undermining the extremely important work that I'm trying to do here on behalf of women in my home country?" and then Feminist A goes back to working on some project regarding feminism in the middle east.

Feminist B says, "How dare you criticize their culture! How can you condemn them when we have problems X, Y, and Z? Your comments are just breeding hate. Besides, you're really just a shill for Bush and Blair. You're just another fake liberal who supports the Iraq war."

Peretz says, "Sweet! I can totally quote the first feminist to simultaneously convince people that arabs are evil, AND I can create the impression that the second feminist is typical of all feminists, and that feminists are pernicious! Ahem: women activists say that feminists are apologists for horrible sexism in the middle east. These quotes are proof!"

Matt says, "Peretz is a tool. There are plenty of feminists who care about women's issues in the middle east! Look at Feminist A, she's a perfect example!"

See?

I'm not saying your post is a bad thing or anything, just... there's context here that matters.

For the record, the part about Peretz being a tool is incontrovertible.

Patrick--

You lost me when you described Christina Hoff Sommers as a feminist.

Oh, and anon, I've read The War Against Boys and Who Stole Feminism?, and I can fairly say that if Christina Hoff Sommers is a feminist, then feminists are the most misogynistic folk on the planet.

Sorry Jeff Fecke, but anyone who claims himself to be the Moderate Left meaning a) you know better than anyone else what that means and b) everyone that disagrees with you is a fucktard, is a fucktard.

You should worry less about feminism and your defense of it from women with shitloads more experience in the field advancing the field and worry more about your claims about yourself and what they say about you and the people you claim to respect.

(I take that back, if the issue is women abroad trying to marry American Men, then the feminist sites lobby for IMBRA which acts as though all Americans are presumptively criminal just for making contact with foreign women using brokers.)

If this anonymous commenter came across as someone with issues, I think I've put my finger on the reason why.

But do gawan. Just how is Christina Hoff Sommers misogynistic.

Prove it or retract it douchebag. But stop with your ad-hominem smears of her that you use to establish your internet cred so you can get some virtual pussy from Amanda.

Okay Steve, exactly what are those issues then?

Let's hear you discuss IMBRA.

Either discuss the issues or fuck off wanker.

Prove it or retract it douchebag. But stop with your ad-hominem smears...

That may be the most hilariously inept attack I've ever endured on the internets. And I've been at the end of many an attack.

Clearly you're kidding, anon. Nobody's dumb enough to type what you just typed. Come clean, man.

Jeff, you're a pinhead. Calling you a douchebag is not an ad-hominem attack. It's name calling.

Saying your opinion meets jack shit because you are a douchebag is an ad-hominem attack.

And saying that Sommers is misogynistic and therefore not a feminist or of no value in the discussion without your proving one bit of it is an ad-hominem attack.

But there you go, yet another content-free, smug as shit, post of yours.

If you are the moderate left, woe be to all us leftists, for we are hollow and void of thought indeed. Which is why I know that you have nothing to do with the moderate left.

Saying your opinion meets jack shit because you are a douchebag is an ad-hominem attack.

Which by the way, I haven't done. In fact, I am calling on you to put up or shut up and post the facts behind your opinion. That's called valuing your opinion once you establish its basis.

So come on, how is Sommers misogynistic?

From Wikipedia:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.

Other common subtypes of the ad hominem include the ad hominem circumstantial, or ad hominem circumstantiae, an attack which is directed at the circumstances or situation of the arguer; and the ad hominem tu quoque, which objects to an argument by characterizing the arguer as being guilty of the same thing that he is arguing against.

Anon, if you don't even know the definition of ad hominem, you shouldn't be out here in deep water. Go back into the shallow end. I hear there are many Men's Rights boards that you'll find scintillating.

As for me, I'm done with you; I might engage you if you appeared to have anything substantive to say, but mostly you're just engaging in...yes, ad hominem attacks, and more to the point, generally comporting yourself like the moron MRA concern troll you are.

Actually read the entire wikipedia article which never once shows in its example anything like just the mere act of name calling as an ad-hominem attack. And they do show plenty of examples.

Name calling ain't ad hominem attack. Name calling and saying therefore there is something wrong with your argument is an ad-hominem attack. Name calling by itself is just namecalling.

But better, of course you're done with me, because you have no argument to make.

You shot your wad by claiming that Sommers is a misogynist. You have no way to back that up. (You have probably never had her books read to you.) And so now you have to claim that you are a victim.

And do I see it? Yes, I do. Once out of arguments, once exposed for the bullshit artist you are, now it's time to claim that anyone that disagrees with you must be a troll. And me? You go back to the ad-hominem -- I must be an MRA, and I must be a concern troll. Oooh! That cuts deep!

Okay Jeff, I asked you several times to back up your claim. It should have been easy. But you can't do that.

Ha Ha! That's why the intartubes are great. Now everyone that comes by, including Matt, knows what an emptyheaded shitforbrains you are.

I love google.

Have a nice evening.

So Steve? IMBRA?

You're on Steve. Please tell us all about IMBRA.

And Matt,

I am still curious to know which of her books you have read.

Thanks!

So anyways, into this internal debate comes someone like Peretz, who of course really is an evil evil imperialist, and who damn well DOES see a way to pick up ammunition to use in both his imperial propagandizing, and his sideways shots against feminism.

Sommers is in the same boat as Peretz--an imperialist anti-feminist who quotes Feminist A's. Opponents of human rights are always calling for more human rights in someone else's country.

Also, Feminist B is more reasonable than you let on. It's not at all clear that Western cries for Islamic reform wouldn't backfire--reactance against Western values plays a role in Islamic misogyny, especially in Afghanistan. I would take Feminist A more seriously if she or he examined that possibility in more depth.

I've read Who Stole Feminism?

I am glad to hear that. Perhaps you can answer Jeff Fecke's question for him and enlighten us all to how Hoff-Sommers is a misogynistic anti-feminist and not just a feminist offering a critique of her movement.

Because we get to dismiss the first out of hand but we ought to listen to the second.

Wow, ok, this went a direction I did not expect.

oooh you signed a petition? ahmadinejad must be trembling in his boots. i bet they'll stop stoning women for holding hands with guys who they aren't married to any day now.
grow up.
let's be serious, there's almost nothing we here in the US can do to improve the role of women in countries the US isn't occupying (and of those, iraq is probably hopeless, and the only reason we can even discuss women's rights in afghanistan is because of the original invasion).
this is not a call to occupy more muslim countries. instead, let's get off your high horse about how feminist groups are supporting muslim women globally. they aren't, because they can't, and nothing we can do in the near future can change the fundamentalist islamic culture that oppresses women.

hmmm....this anon troll sounds vaguely familiar.

is it the Troll of Sorrows, off his medication again?

No; not quite the same verbal felicity and echolalic joie de fievre.

whoever he is--poor kid's got ish-yews!

I've never understood this moral calculus whereby it's better to protest things that you cannot influence rather than things you can.

Just today, evil FRA Misogynist Glenn Sacks endorses Equal Rights Amendment.

http://www.glennsacks.com/equal_rights_amendment.htm
glennsacks.com | Equal Rights Amendment Yes, 'Women's Equality Amendment' No

It has been pointed out that much as Hoff Sommers is not an anti-feminist, as the title of her books suggests, she is more of a 1970s-1980s feminist.

Similarly as the title of Sacks' op-ed suggests, he is not an anti-feminist either, but he is more of a 1970s-1980s feminist.

There are many people who think that the 90s saw a lot of regressive movement from feminism. Much of that happened in the University and feminists of the early 90s that tried to discuss this were branded with the title of anti-feminists.

(Hey Alas, is that you Barry Deutsch, of Alas a Blog, the Pimp who literally was found trafficking the traffic of feminist women to pornographers to make money for yourself? Talk about issues dude, the gall you have to call yourself a feminist and to call out other feminists as anti-feminists. Wow! You got balls honey!)

So Matt, again, what standards do you use to claim that Hoff-Sommers does not care about women abroad, and why do you dismiss even her stance to criticize feminists in country?

How come you do not see her as part of a continuum of feminists beliefs. There is a lot more beliefs to feminist thought than you will pick up off your blogroll.

How come you see her as "anti" and not as "classic", or in her terms, how come you see her as "anti" and not as an equity feminist and not a gender feminist?

Mark,

You should google "fallacy of the excluded middle". Or write the wiki page on it, since you know it so well.

Anyone who uses the tired Sommers cliche of the "gender" vs "equity" feminism is ipso facto not femninist. There can be no equality without consideration of gender biases. Period. Anyone who thinks there can be is living in a dream world. Sommers' fixation on "Well the laws are equal, so the fact that society functions suboptimally is just water under the bridge" is bunk. As for the war on boys, the statistics only bear out that young African-American males are struggling--every other group shows rough gender parity. (And--I'm just guessing here--there might be reasons for the problems of African-American males that stem from something other than the horrible influence of the Stanford Women's Studies department.)

At any rate, the "gender" v "equity" thing is the hallmark of the misogynist. And yes, I place Sommers in that category. I'm sure Sommers thinks of herself as a feminist. But the fact that you're using her to bolster your case is pretty much evidence that no matter what she thinks she is, she's providing aid and comfort to those who would like women to sit in their place, and shut the hell up.

Anon,

You should re-examine my post and then write the wiki post for "literacy", since you read so well.

I've never understood this moral calculus whereby it's better to protest things that you cannot influence rather than things you can.

Mark. It's not either or. And apparently you don't follow the feminist blogs. This is an issue that comes up all the time.

First the feminists were only white middle class women that didn't speak for diverse American women.

Then the feminists were only Americans that didn't speak for the rest of the world.

Now, just check out the blogs, feminists claim to speak for the entire world. But Hoff-Sommers says they don't.

And you come along saying it's either or, showing you that you like a black and white world, and showing you probably have no understanding of feminism, the blogs, or the article.

Really Anon, did I say it was either/or? Or did I imply that one was better than the other? Let's see:

"I've never understood this moral calculus whereby it's better to protest things that you cannot influence rather than things you can."

Now, I could justify my opinion further, but that would be just so much wasted time if I'm addressing someone who plainly cannot read.

Please, anon, read better.

"...read better"

haha the irony.

Anyone who uses the tired Sommers cliche of the "gender" vs "equity" feminism is ipso facto not femninist.

Not an argument.

There can be no equality without consideration of gender biases. Period

Not an argument, and not what Sommers is saying.

Anyone who thinks there can be is living in a dream world.

Not an argument.

Sommers' fixation on "Well the laws are equal, so the fact that society functions suboptimally is just water under the bridge" is bunk.

Not an argument, and not what Sommers is saying.

As for the war on boys, the statistics only bear out that young African-American males are struggling--every other group shows rough gender parity.

Look at that! Actually an argument! Citation please. (I'll give you a hint, it's Caryl River's racist piece where she says, it's low income, urban kids, not white kids that are suffering, therefore there is no boy crisis that we need to worry about.? WTF?)

But kudos Jeff Fecke, you managed to make an argument!

But then you slide,

At any rate, the "gender" v "equity" thing is the hallmark of the misogynist.

Not an argument.

And yes, I place Sommers in that category.

Not an argument.

But the fact that you're using her to bolster your case is pretty much evidence that no matter what she thinks she is, she's providing aid and comfort to those who would like women to sit in their place, and shut the hell up.

A weird ad-hominem argument. I am so vile to you, that the mere fact I bring Sommers up shows that Sommers is a misogynist. This is some sort of reverse guilt by association, as opposed to arguing about Sommers on the content of her arguments.

Jeff, you know nothing of Sommers, and you have no idea what an argument is, or what logic is.

Jeff, you're a douchebag, but that doesn't mean that the sites on your blogroll are all a bunch of douchebags.

You have not mentioned a single argument concerning the "Who Stole Feminism?" And your one argument about "The Boy Crisis" is just this side of racism.

Yes, Jeff, affluent rich white kids can survive quite a bit....

In the meantime your posts are hollow, vapid, intellectually dishonest, and rely on smear and ad hominem attacks.

God forbid the moderate left should have anything to do with you.

Really Anon, did I say it was either/or? Or did I imply that one was better than the other? Let's see:

"I've never understood this moral calculus whereby it's better to protest things that you cannot influence rather than things you can."

Okay Mark, you convinced me. Your statement in bold does not imply that one is better than another, and you are not implying that it is an either/or situation.

Wow, you really are illiterate. Of course I implied that one was better than the other. Hence I didn't posit an either/or.

Here's an exercise for you. Think of something worthwhile. Now think of something even more worthwhile. It would go like this: good/better.

You see anon: good/better. Not: either/or.

One more time, because you're slow: good/better.

Not either/or.


Good/better.

Okay Mark, since you agree that you did claim that one was better than the other, how are you not falling into the fallacy of the excluded middle?

Why can't feminists protest and try to change both things, and many things all at the same time?

In fact, it is what they and the rest of us have done throughout time?

You are trying to make some sort of cost benefit analysis of your own into some sort of moral calculus. But you are ignorant, because no one is making those calculations. Hoff-Sommers is pointing out that these issues that they do mention are rarely mentioned anymore, and usually only to bash Western Culture.

You are saying (and others here too) that since we cannot change anything, why should anyone spend time protesting that?

You have very nicely changed "Think Globally, act locally" into "think locally, act locally" which I imagine in your household is more like "think locally, get me another tissue to wank into."

But it's all cool, 'cause you got to get your snark off about Hoff-Sommers saying something about an issue you know nothing about.

I guess you're another of our wonderful moderate liberals, because us immoderate liberals like to Think Globally, act locally, and even at times think globally, act globally, and even to think globally, raise awareness.

But truly, thank you Mr. MBA Liberal for the cost benefit analysis.

yglesias is as shameless as ever, complaining of bad faith arguments even as he mischaracterises them. Sommers article bemoans the comparative rarity of feminist opposition to islamic subjugation of women, not its complete absence. Your hasty rattling off of a few of those rare feminist critiques is completely without relevance to sommer's argument, as even you are intelligent enough to know.

Matt's post points at the correct answer to complaints like Sommers', for those who bother following the links. The truth is that feminists - real feminists, that is, concerned with practical as well as formal realities - were concerned about the plight of women under Islamist regimes while conservatives like the ones paying Sommers and other distractions were busily treating them as comrade buddies and markets. Feminists were, are, and will be trying to do something practical about those women's plights while conservatives move on to their next target of conquest. (Patrick does a good job of illustrating the kind of debate that arises among people who are interested in actually doing something about people's needs, as opposed to just demagoguing about them.) Feminists are doing the same now for women suffering is conditions that conservatives won't acknowledge as troublesome because they profit from the arrangements, and will continue to do so.

There can be no equality without consideration of gender biases. Period

Not an argument,
***********************************
How is this not an argument? Maybe you need to share what you consider an argument. No proof is provided, but that is not what you are complaining about.

You have very nicely changed "Think Globally, act locally" into "think locally, act locally"

Protest is an action, not a thought.

There's two kinds of protesters. There's the kind who protest in the hope that what they protest will be improved. These protesters would consider the possibility that their protest might do no good or even set their cause back, in which case they might find something else to protest.

There's the kind who protest only for the self-righteous feeling of being better than everyone else. They don't care whether their protest does any good or even does harm. Indeed, "the worse, the better."

I have never seen anyone who complains that Western feminists should be doing more for Iranian and Afghan feminists explain exactly how Western support would improve their situation. They only care about being right, and never about doing good. Being right doesn't protect anyone from honor killings.

Still, decent yet naive feminists might get upset that Westerners aren't doing enough for foreigners. Only a non-feminist like Sommers would then use that point to argue that feminists should be doing less in the West.

Prove it or retract it douchebag. But stop with your ad-hominem smears.

Okay, who thinks Anon is really Tom Grubisich trying to drum up support for his argument?

really? Tom Grubisich is married to Christine Hoff Summers?

man, the things you learn on the web....

for cryin out loud read the whole article Matt! The author clearly backs up her points with fact!

There can be no equality without consideration of gender biases. Period

The first sentence is a thesis. The thesis needs support and calls for a discussion. The second sentence is the conclusion, obviating the need for support or discussion of the thesis.

As I said, it's not at argument. It's merely Jeff Fecke pontificating and demanding everyone understand he is smarter and more moderate than the rest of us. In fact what he shows is that he is ignorant and too cowardly to engage in dialogue.

Two replies.

Recite the amount of concern issued by American conservatives over the fate of Afghani women pre-September 2001. If someone can reproduce one article, one paragraph, one sentence I will be impressed.

How much have Christian conservatives said about the fate of Palestinian (or Iraqi also) Christians?

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Comments closed May 28, 2007.

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