James Fallows says the news is good. See also this, this, and this from Spencer Ackerman on the hows and whys of Muslim America's relative non-alienation and the ways the post-9/11 political climate is putting that at risk.
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American Muslims
01 Jun 2007 09:45 am
Comments (11)
I'm too lazy to look through the PDF file, but it would be nice if the survey asked if "Can Suicide Bombing of Civilian Targets in the United States to Defend Islam be Justified?" There's also a huge gulf between supporting suicide bombing and actually doing it. After all, the majority of people in Turkey support suicide attacks against US troops (in part because the US does little to crack down on PKK elements in Kurdistan that commit attacks in Turkey, but they aren't exactly doing it themselves.
"There's also a huge gulf between supporting suicide bombing and actually doing it."
Perhaps, but if only 1% of those American Muslims who said suicide bombings were "often/sometimes" justified is willing to cross that gulf, that could leave us with -- again, ball park numbers -- 1000 potential suicide bombers? Also, I would suspect the gulf between supporters of suicide bombing and facilitators (e.g., money men, bomb-makers, those who provide shelter, transportation, or false documents to suicide bombers, etc.) is smaller.
Eteraz had a couple fo good posts on this. Especialy about how young American Muslims hold disproportionately conservative views about homosexuality and other hot button social issues.
A lot of Americans look at Islam only from a war on terror perspective,. But the 'conservatization' of American Muslims is a bad thing from a social liberal perspective.
Note -- Young American Muslims are more conservative than their (presumably immigrant or convert) parents! This isn't an immigration issue.
In regards to suicide bombing, I can imagine circumstances under which anyone except a complete pacifist might support such an act. How many people here would find it objectionable if a suicide bomber had taken out Hitler and his leading henchmen (and no one else) in 1942? So without a full context the question itself is fairly worthless.
Re: Young American Muslims are more conservative than their (presumably immigrant or convert) parents!
At a guess this may be due to a problem recent immigrants may have in defining our American cultural conflicts according to their own cultural viewpoints. And perhaps also, recent immigrants have other things to worry about, culture wars being an indulgence for people who have time and money on their hands. In any event, the GOP has done a pretty good job of alienating Muslim Americans over the last six years so no matter how conservative these people are I doubt they will be loyal Republicans any time soon. For a very similar phenomenon, consider how African American social conservatism is fairly immune to appeals from the GOP.
Unlike in Europe, where Muslims were mostly unskilled immigrants and thus tend to wind up, even after three generations as relative losers with a chip on their shoulders, Muslim immigrants to the U.S. have tended to be skilled and thus do fairly well in American society.
A lot of American Muslims are from India, which tends not to produce radical Muslims.
And, one last factor is that a lot of Muslim immigrants to the U.S. were preceded or accompanied by non-Muslim immigrants from the same country. For example, most Arab-Americans are Christians, just as most Indian-Americans are Hindus. The fact that many of the people who speak your language and enjoy your cuisine are non-Muslims probably has a moderating effect on Muslim immigrants to America, while this effect barely exists in Europe.
"Perhaps, but if only 1% of those American Muslims who said suicide bombings were "often/sometimes" justified is willing to cross that gulf, that could leave us with -- again, ball park numbers -- 1000 potential suicide bombers? Also, I would suspect the gulf between supporters of suicide bombing and facilitators (e.g., money men, bomb-makers, those who provide shelter, transportation, or false documents to suicide bombers, etc.) is smaller."
True, but then again, if 1% of self-identified white Americans who are in favor of, say, lynching actually do it, that's still a lot more terrorist attacks than by Muslim American suicide bombers.
"Note -- Young American Muslims are more conservative than their (presumably immigrant or convert) parents! This isn't an immigration issue."
Yeah I'm sure their parents are smoking pot, listening to Britney Spears and chatting with their gay friends while the teens are putting on their suicide belts. And the most conservative segment of American society is the six-year-olds, among whom the males think the females are genetically inferior (they've got the cooties). Get real, one issue does not a generation make. I mean, the majority of us teens are against social security (it takes our money and gives it to geezers) but that doesn't mean we're more conservative than our parents, many of whom dislike public schools, that's just our age.
"True, but then again, if 1% of self-identified white Americans who are in favor of, say, lynching actually do it, that's still a lot more terrorist attacks than by Muslim American suicide bombers."
Touché, Reality Man. Would you happen to have any Pew Survey results showing that 15% of white men think lynchings are justifiable often or sometimes?
"Touché, Reality Man. Would you happen to have any Pew Survey results showing that 15% of white men think lynchings are justifiable often or sometimes?"
You start out talking about scale when you mention "How many potential terrorist sympathizers does that leave us with, ball park figures -- 100,000?" Now you backtrack to the issue of percentages. Considering that white Christian Americans greatly outnumber Muslim Americans, 1% of the majority is still a lot more than 8% (it was only the youth who had a 15% approval of suicide bombing, per your own post) of around 4% of the total population. It's like how while a greater percentage of African-Americans live in poverty, more Americans in poverty are white than any other race because whites make up such a majority of Americans. I'm guessing consistency is not your forte', but instead dissing minorities.
So, "Reality" Man: your speculations about white Christian American men's beliefs are based on zero data, do I have that right?
It's telling that it takes a Muslim -- a former member of a terrorist group, no less -- Dr. Tawfik Hamid, to candidly address the troubling attitudes of a significant minority of American Muslims. You, in a typical lefty-multiculti reaction, prefer to ignore these attitudes, put a positive spin on them, or deflect attention from them with baseless comments about Christian American attidutes.
Comments closed June 15, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
According to page 53 of the Pew Survey PDF Fallows cites, in response to the question, "Can Suicide Bombing of Civilian Targets to Defend Islam be Justified?":
8% of American Muslims surveyed said suicide bombings can be justified "Often/Sometimes";
5% said suicide bombings could be justified "rarely"; and an additional
9% refused to answer or claimed they didn't know.
Among Muslim Americans 18-29, a greater percentage was tolerant of suicide bombing:
15% said suicide bombings can be justified "Often/Sometimes";
11% said they can be justified "rarely"; and
5% refused to answer or claimed they didn't know.
Let's assume that the only group here we need to worry about is the young Muslims who believe that suicide bombings can be justified "Often/Sometimes". How many potential terrorist sympathizers does that leave us with, ball park figures -- 100,000?
Sounds like great news. I'm encouraged.
Posted by Fred | June 1, 2007 10:31 AM