I'm Intrigued

Chad Ford floats the following:

The Bulls would send Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and P.J. Brown (sign-and-trade) to Washington, and the No. 9 pick to L.A.

The Lakers would send Bryant to Chicago.

The Wizards would send Arenas and Etan Thomas to L.A.

Chris Orr at the Plank (glad to see other major pundit sites getting into the NBA blogging) denounces this as the "worst trade ever" for the Wizards. I'm not so sure. Given that Eddie Jordan hates Brendan Haywood and vice versa, I think you'd need to include him in the trade rather than Etan Thomas, but if I were Ernie Grunfeld I'd entertain this offer. The results of this are so good for Chicago, that I'd try to hold out for the inclusion of Thabo Sefolosha or the Bulls 2008 first round pick, but I think the combination of Gordon, Thomas, and cap room is probably better than giving Arenas a max deal.

Under his current deal, Agent Zero's an enormous asset, but he's managed to go from underrated to overrated with frightening speed.

Comments

but I think the combination of Gordon, Thomas, and cap room is probably better than giving Arenas a max deal.

No wonder the Knicks suck; their fan base is crazy. And the Bulls get Bryant and only give up Gordon (who is truly overrated), Thomas (still could be The Next Stro'), and Old Man River? What?

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 18, 2007 10:36 AM

This might sound crazy to some, but: Who really wants Kobe? Kobe feuds almost continuously with his teammates, his coaches, and his front office. He's (almost) 29, he's been in the league 11 years, he's been racking up small injuries, and there's little indication that his team plays much worse when he's not on the court.

Sounds like a poison pill to me.

Posted by Mr. Noah | June 18, 2007 10:39 AM

Deng would have to be included in any serious trade offer for Kobe.

Posted by Rich | June 18, 2007 10:54 AM

How much sense this trade makes long-term for the Wizards depends on Tyrus Thomas's upside, but it doesn't strike me a good deal for them. At best, its a case of taking an initial step backwards, as they wait around for a couple of years in the hope that Thomas's development results in a long-term leap forward. I wouldn't do it if I were them.

Good deal for the Lakers. Even a straight up Kobe for Arenas deal makes sense for them just to get rid of Kobe.

And a great deal for the Bulls, who are a balanced team of very solid betas desperately in need of an alpha.

Posted by Dan Kervick | June 18, 2007 11:13 AM

How much sense this trade makes long-term for the Wizards depends on Tyrus Thomas's upside, but it doesn't strike me a good deal for them.

I believe in TT's upside. It's way, way up there.

Posted by Matthew Yglesias | June 18, 2007 11:20 AM

Good deal for the Lakers. Even a straight up Kobe for Arenas deal makes sense for them just to get rid of Kobe.

Why? Arenas is very, very good, but he's not Kobe.

People are overreacting to Kobe's explosion. Jordan had smaller blowups like this, inc., just before the first championship, a "changes must be made" moment. Kobe's going to stay on the Lakers for at least another year, and probably for the length of his contract.

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 18, 2007 11:24 AM

No wonder the Knicks suck; their fan base is crazy.

We're no crazier than anyone else. All fans have a tendency to think their team can trade all the washed up hacks they don't want anymore for the equivalent of Kobe Bryant. This has nothing to do with why the Knicks suck and you know it.

Posted by Antid Oto | June 18, 2007 11:33 AM

there's a 3-way trade what? every few years maybe? (i'm trying to remember the last few). this is the kind of thing that fans love to play with and professionals virtually never execute.

Posted by howard | June 18, 2007 11:39 AM

Kobe Bryant isn't going anywhere. The Laker Front office will never trade him unless Kobe undertakes some absurdly extreme action. He had a little meltdown to the press. So what? It will all be smoothed over by the end of the summer.

I'm still not convinced that Phil Jackson is not behind this little tirade. It was after a conversation with Phil that Kobe went off. Phil wants something, I'm not sure what, and I think Kobe is his willing/unwilling pawn in a game with Laker management.

let's also remember, Kobe is not wrong. The Laker front office has made some poor choices recently, and needs to do better. I don't blame Kobe for pushing on them. They need to pull the trigger on trades even if their precious Bynum is part of it.

Posted by Hebisner | June 18, 2007 12:02 PM

Hebisner,

It's funny listening to ESPN you would think that Lakers fans are pissed at Kobe, but including myself, I've yet to talk to one who doesn't think that Kobe's pretty justified. Kupchack has pretty much been a disaster for the Lakers and we are wasting his prime years with Smush Parker as a PG.

I agree that I don't think that its likely that Kobe gets traded until at least next offseason, and while Gilbert is probably one of the few available stars who would be acceptable in a package for Kobe, I have to believe that the Lakers would need at least one more 1st rounder to make that package palatable.

Posted by Derrick | June 18, 2007 12:08 PM

"Who really wants Kobe?"

*Celtics fan raises hand.*

NBA trades can usually be judged by who is getting the best player. The filler players in the deal are usually easily replaced, and only are included so salary cap numbers match. In this proposed trade, the Bulls are getting one of the three best players in the NBA and giving up squat. The Wizards are giving up an all-star, and getting squat. The Lakers are getting a small downgrade, but getting rid of somebody who doesn't want to be there. (There is no way the Lakers can get equal value for Kobe.)

Looks like a great trade for the Bulls. Now why would the Wizards want to do this? Oh, right. Their management is eternally incompetent.

Posted by Whispers | June 18, 2007 12:16 PM

And the Lakers would do this why? I know they won't ever get equal value for Kobe, but there's no way they'd do it for Arenas and the #9. They'd probably require Washington trading for a higher pick, so that at least they can have a choice of point guards.

Posted by collin | June 18, 2007 12:24 PM

I think the combination of Gordon, Thomas, and cap room is probably better than giving Arenas a max deal.

Cap room's not an asset in and of itself. Who would you sign with the cap room?

I think this deal only makes sense for Washington if they get Gordon and Deng. Still not sure it would make sense for LA.

Posted by right | June 18, 2007 12:41 PM

Failure in the NBA can be describe in 4(5?) easy words: "Players don't win championships"

Kobe is right, the Laker's had a shot at a lot of good players cheaply, Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson were all available and at 50 cents to the dollar. In addition there were a lot of second tier players available Andre Miller of the Nuggets/Sixers for example.

The Laker's have to make a decision, either build a team around Kobe's now, or get rid of him and start over.

I think starting over might be the best route, you have a few years of goodwill from the fans - they want to see young guys make progress. The salaries are cheaper. Success is longer term, see Utah and Chicago for examples.

Failure to build around your star player will lead to a situation like in Philadelphia, Minnesota or Boston for the last few years.

Posted by Dervin | June 18, 2007 1:01 PM

Matt, you may "believe in TT's upside," but who's going to be the Wizards' first option on offense in the trade you envision? How many games are you going to win with that player as your first option?

Arenas is certainly far from ideal -- especially since, given his physique and athleticism, he should be a lockdown defender, and the only reason he isn't is that he doesn't care enough. But trade him, and you may spend some years in the wilderness wishing you had a player as talented.

Posted by Swopa | June 18, 2007 1:17 PM

Laker's had a shot at a lot of good players cheaply, Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson were all available

AKA, 20 mil. per and out in the second round in the East, 15 mil. per and out in the second round in the East, and 20 mil per and out in the first round in the West.

and at 50 cents to the dollar.

Think that might have been for a reason? By the way, a friend of mine came into some money in Nigeria....

Posted by SomeCallMeTim | June 18, 2007 1:21 PM

That's an awful deal for Washington. They're going to ditch their charismatic/seat-filling franchise player, for the sake of improving their East rival?

Posted by Mark | June 18, 2007 3:05 PM

I'm a bulls fan (granted an idealistic one) and I'm a huge believer in TT's upside. He doesn't just play above the rim, he lives there.

Posted by dbt | June 18, 2007 4:11 PM

"I believe in TT's upside. It's way, way up there."

I also think Tyrus is going to be very, very good. But I don't see him becoming a franchise player. He can have great upside and still only be a complementary player.

Arenas is worth max money. Given the current CBA, max money isn't that big a deal. You can give Arenas max money and still have the salary room to assemble a good team around him.

Don't forget that Antawn's contract is coming off the books soon.

Horrible deal for the 'zards.

Posted by Petey | June 18, 2007 5:01 PM

I'm also skeptical of TT's "upside." Maybe he'd become a great 3 if he develops a reliable jump shot (doesn't have one right now); and he's really not tall or wide enough to bang (gratuitously listed at 6'8", 220) with legitimate 4s. So Chigago is being coy trying to trade this 'tweener. If the Zards are going to trade a star like Arenas, they also would require a very good player or star in return (probably Hinrich, to replace Gil), filler, and the No. 9 pick. Or some other combo including Hinrich.

Posted by DC | June 19, 2007 1:19 PM