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Linker Replies

12 Jun 2007 01:18 pm

Damon Linker was kind enough to send a response to my doubts about his take on Richard Rorty. You'll find it below the fold. I'll write some more about this later, but for now here's Linker:

Rorty certainly did claim that he and Rawls agreed about these questions, but I'm unpersuaded. Rorty was a proselytizer for anti-foundationalism, claiming (in any number of places) that metaphysics in morals or religion is, as such, a danger to liberal democratic politics. The same holds for the belief that science and reason tell us timeless truths about the world, as opposed to helping us solve practical problems. In Rorty's ideal world, everyone would be . . . just like Rorty -- denying the existence of capital-T truth, treating metaphysical commitments with moral and intellectual suspicion, and so forth. As it happens, I've come to agree with Rorty on many of these epistemological questions, but I think it's both politically foolish and morally troubling (in a word, illiberal) to insist that my fellow citizens need to embrace these views as a precondition of contributing positively to the nation's public life.

The pluralist position I attribute to Rawls, Berlin, and Oakeshott is, in this respect, very different. It demands that all citizens affirm liberal principles within the sphere of politics -- like, for instance, that individual rights (in some sense) exist and deserve to be protected by the state -- but it is indifferent to (most of) their views in other areas of life. Whether citizens are atheists or orthodox Christians, whether they believe that science grants them knowledge of the way the world Really Is or it's merely a useful story we tell ourselves, whether they conceive of their rights being grounded in pre-political dignity that derives from human beings having been made in the image of God or they think that rights have come to be asserted because of historical contingencies -- about these and many other (indeed, most other) extra-political matters, political liberalism is and ought to be agnostic.

So, the issue between Rorty and Rawls is not whether Rawls's liberalism needs deeper philosophical foundations. Rorty and (in his late work at least) Rawls both ground their political reflections not in a rationalistic first philosophy but in a certain narrative of Western history (one in which liberalism was developed as a rescue operation for European life after the bloodletting of the religious civil wars). The real issue separating the two thinkers is, rather, whether liberalism should be (in Rawls's terms) a "comprehensive" theory -- that is, does it require, as Rorty seemed to think, that liberal citizens affirm a particular view of human knowledge, God, the grounds of morality, etc., or does it merely require, as Rawls maintained, that liberal citizens refrain from using state power to impose their own (wildly divergent) views about such questions on others.

Focusing on the issue of religion, in which the difference between the thinkers is most pronounced, one could distinguish between them as follows: Rawls's pluralistic liberalism prevents religious orthodoxy from using the state to further its ends, but it allows orthodoxy to flourish in non-political spheres of liberal society. Rorty's anti-foundationalist liberalism, by contrast, seems to be deeply incompatible with orthodoxy of any kind. And given the persistence of piety in the United States, that makes Rawls's pluralist liberalism the better fit for America.

Damon

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Comments (21)

It seems to me that Linker is deeply underestimating the corrosiveness of Rorty's account to the metaphysical claims of Rawls, Berlin, et.al. He, so to speak, gets in under them and kicks the table legs out.

Ironically, Linkers conclusion that "...given the persistence of piety in the United States, that makes Rawls's pluralist liberalism the better fit for America." rings more of the Rorty than Rawls

Rorty's anti-foundationalist liberalism, by contrast, seems to be deeply incompatible with orthodoxy of any kind.

(Assuming the above is true about Rorty), isn't Rorty just attempting to create his own orthodoxy, with one of its tenets being 'This is not my beautiful orthodoxy'?

m, pay no attention to the band behind the curtain

but I think it's both politically foolish and morally troubling (in a word, illiberal) to insist that my fellow citizens need to embrace these views as a precondition of contributing positively to the nation's public life. . .

does it require, as Rorty seemed to think, that liberal citizens affirm a particular view of human knowledge, God, the grounds of morality, etc.,

Can you point out were Rorty says any of these things? I don't thing those characterizations are accurate at all. I think he would say that liberal, democratic society would be better if more people thought the way he did about such things, but I cannot remember him ever saying that such views were somehow a precondition to being a liberal or to contributing to public life.


Assuming the above is true about Rorty), isn't Rorty just attempting to create his own orthodoxy, with one of its tenets being 'This is not my beautiful orthodoxy'?

Rorty was very, very careful to never say that his view of the world was more true or correct than any other way. He would only suggest that his way had more use, that it "paid it's way".

(Assuming the above is true about Rorty), isn't Rorty just attempting to create his own orthodoxy,

It's one of the defects in language that it permits these kinds of false symmetries.

It demands that all citizens affirm liberal principles within the sphere of politics -- like, for instance, that individual rights (in some sense) exist and deserve to be protected by the state -- but it is indifferent to (most of) their views in other areas of life.

In fairness to Rorty, I think this is exactly what he thought he was arguing in CIS -- his "band of eccentrics collaborating for mutual protection," CIS at 59. He's following Oakeshott, not Rawls, but he seems to adopt that position.

I think what Linker has in mind is Rorty's dogmatic anti-dogmatism, which is both annoying and, I think, irrelevant to his agreement with Rawls (as described by Linker above, anyway) on public liberalism.

"Rorty and Rawls both ground their political reflections not in a rationalistic first philosophy but in a certain narrative of Western history (one in which liberalism was developed as a rescue operation for European life after the bloodletting of the religious civil wars)."

This sort of crap history as a real weakness. You don't need a capital T to see that this is a happy fairy tale that pays no way. You still have to confront what happened, and make sense of it in a way that's useful to you by confronting the record thoughtfully, for historical arguments to ground anything.

Looks to me like Linker is confusing Rorty's glee in kicking sand in the face of proponents of various big-T propositions with a requirement of his politics. The former, I think, was merely his disposition, and I can't think of anything suggesting it's central to his theory.

So Linker's probably right in the sense that Rorty himself was a godawful messenger to middle America...but that's certainly not news.

Even granting Linker his interpretations of Rorty and Rawls, I'd argue that Rorty's liberalism, not Rawls's, is what America needs. Liberalism that allows intensely orthodox individuals and groups to hold on to their orthodoxies outside the political sphere tends, as we've seen, to breed illiberal attitudes, demands, and political action. In a country with so many deeply entrenched yet incompatible extra-political orthodoxies, we could use more people like Rorty preaching the virtues of abandoning pretensions to capital-T Truth.

Liberalism that allows intensely orthodox individuals and groups to hold on to their orthodoxies outside the political sphere

... is what's known as "liberalism."

The political theory in which the State dictates what orthodoxies one may adhere to in private life, is a different "ism."

Begins with a "T."

Hannah Arendt wrote about it.

One very large difference between Rawls and Rorty, which, it seems to me, both MY's and Linker's comments may obscure, is Rawls's conviction that our political convictions, though in one sense 'grounded in a certain narrative of Western history', might nonetheless also reasonably be grounded in our (differing!) beliefs about what is and is not morally appropriate so far as state coercion goes. So I, as a secular liberal, believe that rights should be respected because of the inviolable dignity possessed by all persons in virtue of (say) their rationality; while you, as a (liberal) Catholic, believe that rights should be respected because the Social Gospel demands it. On a Rawlsian liberalism, we are both perfectly
(and equally) good citizens. Rorty, on the other hand, demands (while Rawls merely allows, insofar as a Rortyan pragmatist might yet be a member of an overlapping consensus) that good democratic citizens abandon these justifications for their political convictions, that they settle instead for something along the lines of 'that's just how we do things around here'. Whatever the epistemological merits of this Rortyan pragmatism position might be, it seems to me that it's a vice of the position that it fails to respect the convictions of those who think that the fact that we have a certain history is not a reason to, e.g., throw people in jail for not paying their taxes- or, put another way, that moral premises are a prerequisite for moral conclusions. Rawlsian liberalism, it seems to me, is far more tolerant, and (hence?) far more liberal than Rortyan liberalism on this score.

For someone who doesn't believe in truth, Rorty sure spends a lot of time talking about other people's ideas that he thinks are false. And he does so with such intense passion you'd almost swear he thought he was telling the truth!

... is what's known as "liberalism."

Zing.

Okay, highly infelicitous phrasing on my part. But on Linker's interpretation, Rawlsian liberalism has no problem with the orthodox holding onto their orthodoxies, while Rortian liberalism encourages the orthodox to consider giving them up. Linker still thinks Rortian liberalism is liberalism, just not as good a fit for America. It's not like you deviate from Rawlsian liberalism just a smidge and then you're suddenly a totalitarian.

It's hardly original to suggest that a completely hands-off approach to intense, illiberal orthodoxies causes problems for liberal regimes. Nor to point out that the actual history of liberalism in this country has hardly been one of equanimity to all extrapolitical beliefs.

intense, illiberal orthodoxies

Maybe this is where we're talking past each other. What is an "illiberal orthodoxy," where "liberalism" is understood as a second-order set of purely political values?

A belief that men are naturally superior to women is "illiberal" in a first-order sense, but only becomes "illiberal" in the second-order sense if the political structure is framed on that basis.

For Nazis to hate Jews is not a danger to the the liberal state, unless and until that hatred is legislated or tolerated.

Rorty wants to say, "look, your beliefs about women/Jews are unfounded in any Reality, so they shouldn't affect the political structure." But that doesn't make much sense to me, because *no* belief is founded in Reality (chez Rorty). And telling believers that their beliefs are unfounded, as Linker points out, is not a game-winning strategy.

What I take Rawls to be saying, from Linker, is more like, "look, obviously you're entitled to your beliefs, and lots of people disagree with you. It's better for you to live in a state where you can't repress others on the basis of your beliefs, because you also are guaranteed that the others won't repress you." Insert historical examples of same.

I'm not sure that's a great deal more palatable to believers, but it seems to respect their beliefs more.

The only "illiberal orthodoxy," then, is one which demands that its metaphysics be effected as illiberal politics. Neither Rorty nor Rawls can tolerate that.

--Was that at all true/clear/useful?

unless and until that hatred is legislated or tolerated.

Oops, I meant "tolerated" politically, like the courts and police who would ignore Nazi violence.

Rorty, on the other hand, demands (while Rawls merely allows, insofar as a Rortyan pragmatist might yet be a member of an overlapping consensus) that good democratic citizens abandon these justifications for their political convictions, that they settle instead for something along the lines of 'that's just how we do things around here'.

As far as I can tell, Rorty has never "demanded" any such thing. He has merely said he thinks that we would be better off doing so.

And telling believers that their beliefs are unfounded, as Linker points out, is not a game-winning strategy.

I don't think Rorty had any delusions that his arguments would win over voters for the Democratic Party. Just as you are unlikely to win voters for the Democratic Party by launching into a description of the veil of ignorance. The target audience for their political writings was other highly educated liberals.

Insofar as Rorty had views on effective political advocacy, they were deeply mundane.

There are any number of problems with Linker's reply, which, in typical TNR fashion, seems to prefer insistence to argument. A simple point: there are no specific works, let alone statements, cited anywhere in the reply. Perhaps not coincidentally, Linker doesn't seem to have given Rorty a careful reading. Rorty would not say, for example, that Platonism is a "danger" for democracy. He would simply argue that it does nothing for democracy one way or the other, and would add that, since democracy is more important than Platonism, he recommends we think more about democracy.

As for being "orthodox" and asking everyone to think like him, is he in any way different from other people who make recommendations?

Rorty never said all beliefs are equal... just because there is no one Truth, does not mean that some ideas (presumably the ones he advocates) are not better than others (pragmatically depending on their outcomes) .

A few of the above comments completely miss this core idea of his Pragmatism.

Rawls clearly rejects epistemic abstinence* as part of his political conception of justice, which seems to be one of Rorty's more radical commitments. That would be an important distinction in and of itself

*This is one of the things I always found a bit puzzling about Matt's senior thesis, but we never got to talk about it in any detail.

It should be noted that Rawls only gives relatively free reign to reasonable comprehensive doctrines. Unreasonable doctrines are, in no sense, given an uncritical free pass. And social institutions that violate the basic liberties of their members are simply unacceptable. Second, even reasonable doctrines can be subject to criticism in the background culture; the required tolerance of reasonable comprehensive doctrine only extends to the realm of public reason.

I think that we can now see that liberalism is in a lot of trouble when a large proportion of the citizenry (in the US, 20-30%) is strongly committed to certain kinds of dogmas. In theory a liberal state could act as mediator between a large number of different beliefs, but this only works when no one group of believers is determined to attain domination and feels capable of doing so. If there were a lot more Rortians in the US, and a lot fewer Bible Christians and nationalist authoritarians, the American liberal system would be a lot healthier.


Comments closed June 26, 2007.

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