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Null Set Blogging, Part Three

07 Jun 2007 10:34 am

Elbaradei

Brian Beutler uncovers a May 8 transcript which reveals that the debate this week isn't the first time Mitt Romney offered his curious answer to the question "If you had to make the decision, based on what we know now, if you were the president there, do you think you would have done the same thing?"

Well, it's a setting that's almost a null set. Which is, if we knew that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, and if he had complied with the United Nations resolutions to allow IAEA inspectors into his country, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Almost a null set, eh? Brian also notes that this is "evidence that he didn't just screw up his Iraq history at the debates on Tuesday, but rather that he's in a constant state of either denial, ignorance, or deception."

On March 7, 2003 Muhammed ElBarradei of the International Atomic Energy Agency told the world, "After three months of intrusive inspections, we have to date found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapons programme in Iraq."

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Comments (41)

I'm still not sure just what the hell it is that Romney thinks he's saying. I get that he's semi-deflecting the question of "would you have invaded in March 2003 if you had been president" by trying to get across the (part wrong, part dishonest) idea that "if Saddam had only cooperated with the inspectors and proven that he had disarmed, we wouldn't have had to invade, but he didn't cooperate, so we did what we had to do."

But what is "null set" even supposed to mean here? Is he trying to respond to the hypothetical by saying "what we know now is irrelevant to the question of what we should have done in March 2003"? If he's just confused and thinks "null set" means something it doesn't, OK, but I can't even understand what it is that he seems to think it means.

Two teams of inspectors, the first under Blix, then the second under Kay.

What's important is that Edwards & Clinton are inauthentic because they do things that politicians have to do.

Republicans always do this. They systematically get the facts wrong in ways that make their policies and positions look better. And they always get a pass.

To be fair, this repetition of an inane, pseudointellectual answer to a simple question indicates that someone fed Mitt a bad talking point and he failed to digest it properly.

It's deception, pure and simple. They took their cues from Chimpy.

Saddam was even actively destroying his med range missles (al-samoud 2?)when Bush told the inspectors to leave or die in his insane illegal and hitler like invasion of a sovereign country.

Does Romney have a history of employing abstruse words and phrases like 'null set?' If so, does he usually use such phrases correctly, or does he often botch it up, leaving people scratching their heads thinking something like, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Is this a photo of Muhammed ElBarradei?

"A null set is a set that is negligible for the purposes of the measure in question." Right?
Maybe Romney was saying........"a dumb question", no longer pertinent. It's done. Let's move on.

I believe the proper term for this is "vaulting the propoganda."

I believe they way Romney uses the terms he means that the question is a complete counter factual. It's like not answering hypothetical questions.

I believe they way Romney uses the terms he means that the question is a complete counter factual. It's like not answering hypothetical questions.

I believe they way Romney uses the terms he means that the question is a complete counter factual. It's like not answering hypothetical questions.

A good candidate should be able to make the phrase "null set" describe perfectly Mitt Romney's slickness, focus-group-tested position, ignorance, and utter unsuitability for the office of President of the United States. It should cling to him as the term "brainwashed" has stuck to his father.

Well since George Bush has said, on several occasions, that Saddam wouldn't allow inspections and he never got called out on it by anyone other than 'far left' blogger types, Mitt just figures why the hell not go with that. Makes that whole narrative so much easier. However, in Bush's case, at least he knows he's lying when he says it. Mitt doesn't know the difference one way or the other. Phony-ass that he is.

I guess he's trying to make the point that decisions are judged as good or bad at the time that they are made, and not by a post-hoc analysis. Even if that is his point, he still evades the question (shocker!) and doesn't answer whether he would have made the decision himself, either knowing what we knew then or knowing what we know now.

In other news, Romney is a totally typical bag of douche.

sounds like he's confusing "null set" for "moot point" or "beside the point".

    Well, it's a setting that's almost a [moot point]. Which is, if we knew that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, and if he had complied with the United Nations resolutions to allow IAEA inspectors into his country, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

not sure what "setting" is doing there.

Multiple Choice Mill also has no idea what a nonsequiter is.

Is this a photo of Muhammed ElBarradei?

Yes.

But Al Gore is still fat and so is Michael Moore. And John Edwards got a haircut. And so did Bill Clinton. And Hillary wanted to be President earlier in her life.

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Nice photo. When did Friedman stop wearing a rug?

perhaps romney was referring to the set of all wmds found in iraq.

my own personal null set consists of all the reasons to vote for mitt romney.

I've re-read the response several times now, and disregarding the misuse of the term "null set", I reach the same conclusion, Romney never answered yes or no. It's the classic political no-answer answer.

Leaving aside the null set, this quote is clearer. He flubbed it a little during the debate. If someone calls him on it, he'll just say Saddam let them in, but didn't comply w the resolution (didn't cooperate). Audacious, and dishonest, but not evidence of clulessness, rather it's sorta clever. But it's not 04 anymore, and it can't save them from the anti-war vote.

Dude! I think this latest quote has finally opened my eyes as to what Romney meant by "null set." I think he means, "The set of conditions you would have to impose on possible universes so as to find one in which one could, in 2003, have known what we know now, are so restrictive that in fact the set of possible universes satisfying these conditions is null; thus, I reject your question as vacuous, just as if you had asked me "What would you have done as president if the number of functioning nuclear warheads possessed by Iraq was an odd number which was divisible by 2?""

I'd be in nerd heaven if Romney explained this point in full during a debate.

Am I the only one that thinks El-Barredai looks like henry Waxman?

It's deception:

Romney rejects long-term Iraq presence


Looks like Jeffrey Tambor.

"What would you have done as president if the number of functioning nuclear warheads possessed by Iraq was an odd number which was divisible by 2?"

Given the overall chest-beating tone and semi-retarded intellectual level of the Republican debates so far, I would be totally unsurprised if one of the candidates were to assert that such numbers actually exist.

"Governor Romney, Mrs. Romney wanted me to bake a cake today's evening meal and we're out of eggs, so I'll be heading to the grocery for a few things. I s there anything you'd like me to pick up while I'm there?"

"Well, Mrs. Mudge, did you read the cake directions? Sometimes those new mixes don't require any eggs, and therefore your trip to the grocery would be a kind of null set situation."

"I always bake from scratch, Governor Romney."

I would be totally unsurprised if one of the candidates were to assert that such numbers actually exist.

They do, but you have to use intelligent division...

James Gary,
They exist if you have the will to make them exist.

I listened to Blix and El Barradei follow-up speach to the one Powell gave. It was on NPR. I don't recall word for word, but it was to the effect that Blix said they have looked at everyting they were given by the US and they got nothing. Barradie basically scoffed at the US notion that there was an active nuke program. This got almost no press.

How come nobody remembers the dramatic stories about Iraq providing first time ever access to the palaces, essentially unlimited access? Remeber when Iraq allowed U2 spy planes to patrol the country without firing on them about a week before the invasion? Think those planes were looking for weapons or where to place the shock and awe?

Where is the giant weapons document the Iraqi's handed over to the US, that the press told us was a useless document? Has anyone ever followed up on that?

I had the same thought as J. Ellenberg. This gets Romney within spitting distance of correct usage, even as it ruthlessly abuses objective reality.

May 8 – “it's a setting that's almost a null set”

June 5 – “…question is, kind of, a non sequitur, if you will. What I mean by that -- or a null set”

Does that remind anyone else here of Little Carmine on the Sopranos?

"It should cling to him as the term "brainwashed" has stuck to his father.

Posted by rk"

Great to see someone in my age range commenting.

Mitt IS a null set. Very appropriate.

I really like that:

George - "brainwashed"

Mitt - "null set"

Remember the crack about the George Romney Doll 'with washable brains'

Doesn't "Null Set" sound French?

"was an odd number which was divisible by 2?"

Hell, divide 1 by 2 and get 0.5. All numbers.

Not WHOLE numbers...

Geek humour, my apologies.

MyGodBeatsYourGod, real geeks use integers.

Wikipedia sez: "In mathematics, a divisor of an integer n, also called a factor of n, is an integer which evenly divides n without leaving a remainder."

Actually, I should say, real geeks use bit vectors. Density and unboundedness being a problem. For geeks, I mean.

It seems that Romney almost said that he would not decide to attack Iraq under "null set conditions".

Then he qualify them as "null set" to distance himself from such a conclusion, and, as the second step of the obfuscation, he said "we would not have this conversation" rather than giving a straight statement.

In a way, Romney is correct: without a disastrous war, as a former governor of a liberal state with a long record of being tolerant to gays, being supportive of choice etc. he would not have even prayer of a chance to be a "serious Presidential candidate who grants interviews".

This is a clever strategy, I would call it "calibrated insanity". Rather than being batshit insane (or, in British usage, barking mad), as it is required by "the base", a succesful candidate must present a modicum of sanity, say, like a violent paranoiac who is on meds most of the time.

And while on meds, side-effects include an inability to make a straight statement. Varmint hunter, if you will.

I believe that Mitt believes that if he can’t dazzle us with his brilliance then he shall attempt to baffle us with his BS.


Comments closed June 21, 2007.

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