« ONE Vote | Main | Bipartisanship (Really!) »

The Trouble With Threesomes

11 Jun 2007 09:45 am

I tend to agree with Matt Stoller that the Democratic primary campaign thus far has been fought in an unfortunately kid gloves-ish manner. There is, however, a good reason for this. One of the more insightful parts of Bob Shrum's book is when he's talking about the 2004 primary. There was a lot of sentiment inside the Kerry campaign that the thing to do was to hit harder against Howard Dean. The dissenters pointed out that hitting Dean would only drag Dean and Kerry down, and the real beneficiary would be someone else. The only hope was that someone else would start mixing it up with Dean, and then the fact that polling showed Kerry was favorably regarded by most Democrats -- even though few expressed an intention to vote for him -- would work in Kerry's favor, as people turned to him.

This year, you have three Democrats -- Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Obama -- who are all quite well-liked by primary voters. A candidate who viciously laid into the flaws of one of the other two could quite possibly sow some doubts. But he (or she) would also alienate some people. And, of course, the subject of the attacks would fight back. The real winner would be the third candidate.

The trouble is that it would actually serve everyone well to see the big, obvious attacks get rolled out and see all the candidates counterpunch. This is especially true, since all three really have very little electoral field testing.

Share This

Comments (21)

If you're one of the big three, the obvious solution would be to have a second- or third-tier candidate that you're secretly in cahoots with do the attacking for you.

In return, you could promise them the VP or good cabinet position. I suppose this sort of deal would be hard to keep secret. Also, attacks from second or third tier candidates are probably ineffective. Still, it couldn't hurt to have someone else consistently saying nasty things about your opponents during the debates.


Why couldn't one of them start attacking both of the other candidates? Then all three would be dragged down. It seems like Edwards was exploring this approach in the last debate, although his topic selection for doing so seemed a little misguided.

In 2004, if I recall correctly, Dick Gephardt took it to Dean in the days before the Iowa vote -- they both suffered for it, and Kerry came out on top. I also recall a bunch of anti-Dean money going to Gephardt in those final days, so Gephardt could soften him up.

Because everyone knows, when you want to win an election, you follow Bob Shrum's advice.

Speaking as someone very much on the outside of politics (a Texas Democrat whose vote in the national election hasn't ever actual mattered), to me it's exactly this kind of mincing, careful, fearful, "don't rock the boat" thinking that's doomed the Democrats. Get out there and fight for what you believe in, show people that your stances are not purely the result of careful political calculus but rather sincerely held and fiercely defended.

There's a difference between pointing out where you think your opponent's ideas are bad, and saying that you think the opponent him/herself is bad.

Actually it's pretty standard analysis Shrum is making - both in the world of political consulting and political science. You never, ever go negative in a multi-candidate race. The third candidate always reaps the benefits.

There's no possible way either Obama or Edwards will win the Democratic primary by aggressively attacking Clinton head-on. This is a loser politically. Unfortunately, on the other hand, Clinton will almost certainly if they neither of them do. She's in a good position right now.

I'm not sure why you think a nasty primary will be a good thing, though. And by the way a negative, nasty primary is very different from an intellectual war of ideas, or whatever the hell Matt Stoller thinks he wants. I don't think the former thing is especially useful, and the latter is of course just not realistic.

Though I would think that the need for "the big, obvious attacks [to] get rolled out" dovetails nicely with the incentives of the second-tier canddiates. The big three have to be wary of being first into the mud. But a Ron Paul has nothing to lose with a big visibility-enhancing fight with a Giuliani. (Not that Paul actually directly attacked Giuliani; it was the other way around.)

The trouble with this on the Democratic side is that, say, Biden and Richardson are trying to base their candidacies in their qualities as elder statesman/ diplomat/ etc. So their *specific* stories would be undermined by going on offense. But still, you'd think that, say, Chris Dodd would see the opportunity in getting into a headline-grabbing fight with one of the majors.

I just noticed the title of this post and... yuck...

In 1999 and 2000, the Dems had a two-man primary, and one of the candidates (Bradley) began calling the other (Gore) a liar. Bradley's charge was extremely weak on the merits, but by the end of the New Hampshire, his invective was strong. His tangiest statements were repeated by Republicans and the press corps right through November 2000. Sad to say, that election was decided quite narrowly.

Translation: It's fine for Dems to argue over policy. It's bad to make claims about character.

Bob's exactly right. It's fine to argue policy, but in the end I'd like to see a Dem nominee who comes out stronger, not one who's still dripping with mud slung from the primary campaign. There is no need to stock the Republicans' arsenal for the fall campaign. Gravel and Kucinich may have stepped over that line last debate, but I hope disagreements between the top tier candidates will be argued...but not in a costly way.

The race for the Democratic nomination HAS been too nice so far. It guarantees a Hillary victory and guarantees that she won't be battle-tested for the general election. In the final analysis, Edwards in the one who has to make the move. Stuck in third place and losing some steam, Edwards has to attack Obama as a shill for corporate interests and an imperial foreign policy if he wants to become the main challenger. True, attacking Obama might ruin his candidacy, but it's also Edwards' only chance of winning.

The problem for candidates is how to demonstrate that their ideas are good ones and that they have the backbone to lead the nation. The solution is to attack the GOP vigorously. The Democratic base lusts for a candidate that will pick up a chair and beat the GOP nominee senseless. A candidate that starts running now against the GOP will garner support. This appears to be Edward's approach but he needs to be more aggressive, more confrontational, and more condescending to Republicans.

It's interesting that several people have commented on the effect of the IA caucuses in 2004, without translating that into what it means for 2008. Edwards has no reason to attack Obama or Hillary because he's leading in IA.

Hillary is the front runner virtually everywhere else, so she has no incentive to stir things up. Obama has made himself the "New Politics" guy, so he doesn't have much rhetorical room to launch an attack.

Both Obama and Edwards need to differientiate themselves from Clinton, but neither needs to attack at the moment.

(Prediction: if Obama gets stuck in third in IA and tied for 2nd in NH late in the year, look for him to attack Edwards).

The thing is that Hillary is right. There's far less difference between the Democratic contenders than there is between any of them and the Republicans. All the dkos-style rants about warmongering Hillary won't do a thing to change this.

The base doesn't want to see a bunch of nasty in-fighting. Nor does the goal of passing, say, a health care plan get any more achievable if all the candidates start smearing each other's health care plan with rhetoric easily recycled in the general election.

You see the Republicans, for the most part, focusing fire on the Democrats because they understand who the real enemy is. On the Democratic side, Edwards has been doing the best job of understanding this dynamic and attacking the GOP.

As long as all three candidates think they can see a plausible path to victory, there's no reason for them to alienate the base with internecine warfare.

Going really negative and nasty in an intra-party contest never makes sense unless the general election is beyond doubt. You appeal to partisans by being a team player.

I foresee that the Republican primary is going to get a lot more nasty, and soon. Dunno who's going to still be standing by the end.

The Democratic primary is different because all the frontrunners are going to be nice to each other, mostly. And Hillary will probably win.

I'm a conservative Republican so take this for whatever it's worth.

One of the top-tier candidates should look past their opponents and towards the Republicans. It focuses on the true political foe while not inflicting any inter-party damage. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards need the support of the other groups should they get the nomination. They don't want to alienate inter-party foes. For the most part that's how the big three Republicans are behaving.

Now, if you're below the top-tier you have to attack more to garner media attention and puncture holes to move yourself up. You need this to get passionate supporters who are willing to work hard and donate money. Dean did that very well by talking about the Iraq War and leveraging the internet.

Don't forget the "anonymous" attack ads vs. Dean that proved in the long run to have been funded by Kerry, Gephardt, and others.

The other problem here is that any attacks Dems engage in will inevitably be used against the eventual nominee by the Republicans. Something along the lines of, "Even his/her fellow Democrats said that my opponent is @#$%&^@!!" Since reclaiming the WH is critically important for both the Dems and the country, the Dems have to be concerned about this.

The problem for candidates is how to demonstrate that their ideas are good ones and that they have the backbone to lead the nation. The solution is to attack the GOP vigorously. The Democratic base lusts for a candidate that will pick up a chair and beat the GOP nominee senseless. A candidate that starts running now against the GOP will garner support. This appears to be Edward's approach but he needs to be more aggressive, more confrontational, and more condescending to Republicans.

I don't know that this is the BEST thing to do, but I'd like to see it, and lots of it, if only because there is dismally little of it in the media at the moment, and since the media HAS to cover the candidates...

With the White House running at a sub-40% approval rating and Repub figures mostly either getting hauled before Congress or judges, I would think that every single Dem candidate would jump at the chance to portray the main election as nothing more than a formality- as in "You're not seriously considering one of THOSE guys, are you? The ones so insecure about the size of their dicks that they want to go back to ICBM races? The ones who seriously think that there were dinosaurs on Noahs Ark? The ones whose idea of funny is to sing Beach Boys tunes about yet another mindless bloodbath? Come on now. Let's go get a coffee and talk about this."

Probably too much to ask, yes?

Best headline ever...


Comments closed June 25, 2007.

Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.