They Make Videos

A friend was telling me that she didn't really understand the point of the recent heavy spate of blog posts about women getting harassed on the street. Well, I wouldn't want to claim that this is the point, but it's the sort of thing where, as a man, I really didn't appreciate either the scope or the bothersomeness of this until I sort of had myself hit over the head with it with a ton of blog posts and links to things. At any rate, via Ann Friedman here's a brief documentary on the subject:

The more I think about it, the more remarkable it seems that this phenomenon goes unremarked so frequently.

Comments

Freedom of speech means people are free to say shitty things. Once again, feminist bloggers want to restrict free speech in the name of "protecting women". But you can't have it both ways. Our freedoms come with consequences that we often don't like. That's what it means to live in a free society.

Posted by Freddie | June 27, 2007 5:42 PM

I didn't realize what a problem it was until I got involved with a very pretty girl. It's pretty much a daily thing for her: getting yelled at on the street by lonely, single, misogynist losers like those in the video. It ranges from the comical to the downright threatning.

Posted by JH | June 27, 2007 5:50 PM

There are several problems with that, Freddie, but I'll state the most obvious one. College campuses are (semi)private environments designed to be safe, and have specific rules to ensure that. They sometimes enforce rules that, if the federal government were to enforce the same rules, would be problematic. But since you pay to be there, and live in their housing and eat their food and benefit from their teaching staff, you're obliged to follow certain rules. Like not harassing women on the street. You are of course free to break the rules; you should be expelled, not jailed.

Should you be allowed to ask women to show you their breasts in a restaurant without consequence? In your workplace? In a high school?

Posted by Sam L. | June 27, 2007 5:56 PM

I had two attractive roommates (college-age women, of different nationalities) which I was living in Nice. Walking down the streets with them, especially by the cafes featuring large numbers of North Africans... the stares, the whistles, the wet sounds, it blew my mind. Largely because walking the same streets alone or with male friends was completely different (ie, 'normal.')

Later, when living in Taiwan I never fully adapted to the feeling of being stared at or observed, and it made me reflect on the experience of this "male gaze" that women have to deal with... I think my understanding - or at least my empathy - for what so many women go through habitually in their daily lives grew enormously after those experiences. (I'm sure this is probably pretty common or cliched, though...)

Posted by Triskele | June 27, 2007 6:02 PM

Matt,

In your neighborhood, who exactly is doing the harasssing: the yuppies or the Salvadorans?

And might the answer be of relevance to the current Senate debate on immigration?

Posted by Steve Sailer | June 27, 2007 6:07 PM

Watch the video, Sailer, you moron.

Posted by ogged | June 27, 2007 6:15 PM

Freddie: I missed the part where Matt or the video was calling for making this sort of speech illegal, as opposed to saying: it's crude and vile, and sometimes guys don't get this. Steve S: if you think sexual harassment is confined to certain ethnic groups, you're badly mistaken.

What I never really get is the number of guys who have said to me, in all earnestness, "hey: I'd love it if some complete stranger grabbed some normally private part of my body!" I can never figure out whether they believe this only because they haven't had to put up with this on a regular basis, or because it is -- ???! -- true.

Posted by hilzoy | June 27, 2007 6:16 PM

I think Matt can answer the question for himself about his own neighborhood.

Posted by Steve Sailer | June 27, 2007 6:18 PM

Ya think maybe alcohol consumption is an issue that's relevent here?

Posted by Ben | June 27, 2007 6:25 PM

I'd love it if some complete stranger grabbed some normally private part of my body!" I can never figure out whether they believe this only because they haven't had to put up with this on a regular basis, or because it is -- ???! -- true.

An occasional sexually charged encounter with a stranger can be exciting for either sex, I would imagine. The key phrase here is 'putting up with it on a regular basis'. In that case it just compulsive and not even really about sex, primarily. Then it's harassment, and of course not fun or erotic, just boorish and disrespectful. I don't believe even the guys you're citing would like it after a while.

Posted by jonnybutter | June 27, 2007 6:33 PM

That video... "Hey, let's ask a bunch of drunk frat guys serious questions about sexual harassment and put it on film!" The results are unsurprising.

Posted by Algernon | June 27, 2007 6:33 PM

Ben: Does it occur to you that men who will make excuses for rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment when drunk might perpetrate them when drunk? Why not go act a rape victim whether she cares that the guy was intoxicated?

Or to put it another way, if you can't recognize right from wrong when drinking, you shouldn't be drinking.

Posted by Sam L. | June 27, 2007 6:43 PM

An occasional sexually charged encounter with a stranger can be exciting for either sex, I would imagine.

Oh, like when that guy masturbated openly next to me on the subway? Doesn't happen often, certainly "exciting," but, no, not fun, not erotic.

Posted by Jackmormon | June 27, 2007 6:44 PM

Hilzoy: It depends on what sort of complete stranger is doing the grabbing. I bet many of the guys who say that to you really wouldn't object if female strangers they consider attractive came on to them, grabbed them, or whatever-- even if it happened all the time. But if the stranger was-- god forbid-- another man, they would suddenly realize that sexual harassment is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Posted by Algernon | June 27, 2007 7:05 PM

Also, this obviously isn't the same issue because it's consensual, but here's a description of a famous psych study dealing with receptivity to sexual activity with an attractive stranger (
scroll to bottom )

"R. D. Clark & Hatfield (1989) had attractive undergraduates approach members of the opposite sex on a U.S. college campus and state: "I have been noticing you around campus. I find you very attractive." Then the person would ask one of three questions:
a) Would you go out with me tonight?
b) Would you come over to my apartment tonight?
c) Would you go to bed with me tonight?
There was a difference between men's and women's responses to these questions:
Women's responses:
(a) 50% yes, (b) 6% yes, (c) 0% yes
Men's responses:
(a) 50% yes, (b) 69% yes, (c) 75% yes"

Posted by Algernon | June 27, 2007 7:18 PM

No, it obviously isn't the same issue, and I agree with Hilzoy and Sam L. But something that's bugged me: Aren't those studies highly unethical? What does the tester do after the respondent says "Yes"?

Posted by Matt Weiner | June 27, 2007 9:11 PM

Actually, does going up to someone you've just met and asking them to have sex with you may fall under the umbrella of sexual harassment?

Posted by Algernon | June 27, 2007 9:24 PM

What does the tester do after the respondent says "Yes"?

Debriefing. "This is part of a study of human sexuality, blah blah blah..."

Posted by Aaron S. Veenstra | June 27, 2007 9:36 PM

"What I never really get is the number of guys who have said to me, in all earnestness, "hey: I'd love it if some complete stranger grabbed some normally private part of my body!" I can never figure out whether they believe this only because they haven't had to put up with this on a regular basis, or because it is -- ???! -- true."

They wouldn't really enjoy it if they had to put up with it all the time and with a cross-section of very attractive to very unattractive people.

I think a tactic to get a straight guy to understand sexual harassment a little better is to tell them that the stranger grabbing them is either a very unattractive female or a male. To get a gay guy to understand it, posit a really unattractive male or a female is doing it.

When being pinched is posed as a hypothetical to a guy, its already a fantastical scenario, so they're going to have a hollywood image of the encounter.

Posted by spockamok | June 27, 2007 10:45 PM

I've know several women who went to school in France, and the most depressing aspect of their entire stay was the menacing they were subjected to by "packs" (almost universal term) of young Arab men. American women are used to simply walking alone to go to class, the store, a club, a friend's house etc. The young Muslim Arabs felt that a woman's walking alone was carte blanche for them to harrass and threaten them. (Curb your boys, folks.)

The images of the sotted college kids in that video werern't much better. Not quite as physically menacing, of course, but they were also on camera.

Posted by Jeffrey Davis | June 28, 2007 8:48 AM

'What does the tester do after the respondent says "Yes"?'

'Debriefing.'

Well obviously - the briefs just get in the way.

Posted by Njorl | June 28, 2007 10:34 AM

Yes, their behavior is boorish, and we would certainly take non-Muslim men to task for acting that way. But as we all know, we must not criticize these Muslim youths, because they are the real victims here. They are poor and live in a racist society, so we must not only allow them to practice their anti-woman, anti-free speech, religion-as-the-state culture here in the West, we must also apologize to them whenever our freedoms offend their sensibilities, and promise never to do it again. Because after all, the erosion of our freedoms is a small price to pay for multicultural harmony.

Posted by Claudius | June 28, 2007 10:37 AM

"The more I think about it, the more remarkable it seems that this phenomenon goes unremarked so frequently." In other words, "I'm surprised that the chattering classes don't, ah, chatter more about this crucial topic..."

What a lot of bother. Drunk college kids like to drink and fuck and talk about sex, and the guys bother the girls. Chill out, Matt: it's just human nature. If you weren't a liberal you wouldn't have to be offended by reality. We treat women, broadly speaking, with kid gloves and tons of respect in this country compared to how they do in many parts of "enlightened" Europe.

Are women made uncomfortable by sexual attention from men? Yes. Do they also crave it? Yes. Is there a lot of gray area in these matters, especially with, say, drunk college girls who knowingly associate with drunk college guys? Yes. Take two reality pills and shut up.

Posted by Benoit | June 29, 2007 3:37 AM

I've had fat girls and guys grab my ass before, and i don't mind at all.

Posted by yoyo | July 1, 2007 3:06 AM

I'd probably kinda grossed out if some dude started grinding my ass on a dancefloor though.

Posted by yoyo | July 1, 2007 3:10 AM