The Butlerian Jihad, as everyone knows, is directed against "thinking machines" -- i.e., artificial intelligence -- not radical life-extending technologies. Indeed, the precious melange spice found only on Arakis is a radical life-extending technology and obviously the Jihad doesn't have a problem with that.
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Wrong Again, Douthat
25 Jul 2007 12:13 pm
Comments (27)
Ah, but Muad'dib was the Preacher who fought the myths created around the Mahdi, as well. Hmmmm...
Okay, seriously, a point about sci fi references here. If you pull the original mythical Butlerian jihad out, fine, but what do you do when Herbert's son goes and creates a whole new reality around that mythology, says it's based on his dad's notes, but writes so weakly that the story is weakened, not strengthened. Whose Butlerian Jihad do you work with then?
@mc
I refuse to read Brian's books. Thus, the Frank Herbert canon is all there is.
Douthat evidently isn't geeky enough for blogging . . .
"Whose Butlerian Jihad do you work with then?"
Always refer to the original text.
I always assumed the "Butler" in the Butlerian Jihad half-referred to Samuel Butler.
ARRAKIS, dude. Two "R"s.
Dang, I was looking at the Dune books at the neighborhood used books emporium just last week and debating if I should start re-reading them.
But I'm afraid not after the disaster of rereading Earthsea and Canopus in Argos. Maybe some things are better enjoyed as teenager only.
Posted by kvenlander | July 25, 2007 12:50 PM:"But I'm afraid not after the disaster of rereading Earthsea and Canopus in Argos. Maybe some things are better enjoyed as teenager only."
You didn't like Earthsea on re-reading? You're sticking to the first three books right?
I thought it got better.
Wow, I appear to have seriously underestimated Matt Yglesias's geek cred.
kvenlander, the first book, at least, holds up to multiple readings.
The "Butlerian jihad" was initiated by Beach.
the precious melange spice found only on Arakis is a radical life-extending technology
Melange is a technology? I thought it was a product of Dune's natural environment, simply harvested and used like many a natural substance.
I think I'll wait until my kids are old enough for Earthsea. Maybe I'll peek into the beginning of Dune one of these days.
How about derailing this thread for recommendations for recent good science fiction? Pretty much anything by Ken McLeod, Alastair Reynolds and Ian Banks are worth tracking down. I find Stross' singularity boring and I only read him for the computer jockey inside jokes. Gibson is clunky and derivative post-debut and Kim Stanley Robinson's series on global warming is so utterly lifeless I was hoping for a biblical deluge to wash it away (I have to admit I didn't have the strength to read pas t volume one).
Gibson is clunky and derivative post-debut
Really? Do you like Burning Chrome? I thought Pattern Recognition was really good....
Diana Wynn Jones is just incredible. Dogsbody, Witch Week, Archer's Goon, Aunt Maria....
If your Dune itch needs scratching, and the grave-robbing works don't meet your quality standards, let me recommend R. Scott Bakker's fantasy trilogy 'Prince of Nothing' comprised of 'The Darkness That Comes Before', 'The Warrior-Prophet', and 'The Thousandfold Thought'. It features superhuman intellects scheming and manipulating, and addresses them better than Herbert did. According to wikipedia, Bakker has a Ph.D. in philosophy, and the text is full of concerns derived from philosophy.
Philosophy is an ideal major for a mentat. Poli-Sci, not so much.
The Dune books DEFINITELY withstand an adult re-reading. I got more out of them this past year when I went start to finish thru the entire collection than I did as a teen. Herbert's political observations are still so relevant to today it's stunning. Hervert had an amazing understanding of the psychology behind politics and all of his books are suffused with that insight.
While reading the books I was constantly getting sidetracked because he'd make a commment on politics that would force me to stop reading while I considered the parallels to the current, real, political situation.
Highly recommended for any political junkie.
Maybe some things are better enjoyed as teenager only.
I have re-read the original "Dune" several times and it still kicks ass. The rest....well, thats a different story.
Just wanted to second the recommendation of R. Scott Bakker's trilogy, as excellent, innovative epic fantasy novels and as provocative, educated philosophical thought experiments.
The original is the only one I've read, and it absolutely stands up to multiple rereading, particularly for anyone with an interest in Middle East politics.
Use of melange as a life-extender, or heightened awareness, or for navigation of faster-than-light transports, is probably best described as technical ecological knowledge.
I guess I didn't get the point of Pattern Recognition at all. Was there a point?
By the way, "Douthat" in the title of this post sounds like a pejorative. Similar to "Douchebag" or "Asshat."
Way to go, Douthat.
dune the first was great, the rest not so. and i too thought pattern recognition was pretty good. as for children's fantasy holding up, i'm skeptical (patty mckillip? susan cooper? anne mccaffrey? madeleine van engel), though i suppose leguin could be an exception.
Why is Anne McCaffery in there with Van Engel and Susan Cooper? And why isn't Lloyd Alexander or Garth Nix in there? Do not diss the childhood fantasy!
I found the later books of dune (4-6) almost as good as the first, although I agree that Brian's rewriting of it just totally screwed with the entire point. He doesn't get his Dad's own themes, which is pretty sad.
Iain Banks, when he's on, is very good. I reread Use of Weapons and Consider Phlebas just recently.
"Iain Banks", tsk, tsk, tsk.
Morat20, there goes your geek cred down the drain...
- "Iain Banks" writes (excellent) literary fiction.
- "Iain M. Banks" writes (exceptional) science-fiction.
"Iain Banks" and "Iain M. Banks" are the same person but they are not the same writer :)
The "Butlerian jihad" was initiated by Beach.
(applause)
I'm aware of the distinction. First book of his I read was The Bridge. I wish I could find a copy of Feersum Engine and The Crow Road over here, but all I can seem to get is his sci-fi stuff. (Which I quite enjoy).
Comments closed August 08, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
You know, you just can't trust people who aren't Dune obsessives. Next thing you know the guy will be telling us that Muad'dib was not the Mahdi.
Posted by IP Guy | July 25, 2007 12:20 PM