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If a General Speaks in the Senate and Nobody Pays Attention, Does He Make a Sound?

27 Aug 2007 10:56 am

200px-Eric_Shinseki_official_portrait.jpg

Kay Steiger thinks about the professional military's responsibilities to provide strategic advice:

Officers are trained to work on the "how" of a problem and they never are allowed to question the judgment of the decision itself. The administration called on generals to plan a war, but it was never their role to think about whether going to war was a good decision. Is this a good way to train the highest level of advisers to the commander in chief? Probably not.

This is inspired by Fred Kaplan who takes the view that the officer's corps is repeating the mistakes condemned in H.R. McMaster's Dereliction of Duty where he argues that the Vietnam-era military "betrayed their professional obligations by failing to provide unvarnished military advice to President Lyndon B. Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara as they plunged into the Southeast Asian quagmire."

I'm not 100 percent sure about this. It seems to me that insofar as the generals are going to disagree with civilian officials, it makes sense for them to be somewhat subtle about it. At the end of the day, it's up to civilians to decide whether or not to start a war, and with good reason officers want to avoid actions that will render the chain of command unworkable. The trouble is that when officers try to be duly discreet, they just get ignored if people don't want to listen.

An excellent example is the case of General Eric Shinseki. He testified in public, before congress, that it would require "on the order of several hundred thousand" soldiers to secure Iraq. To an uninformed member of the public (as I was at the time) this sounds like professional military advice on a technical military question. As we can now see in this era of "surge," however, the Pentagon can't deploy several hundred thousand troops to Iraq -- there just aren't enough people in the whole Army. One has to assume that, as Chief of Staff of the Army, Shinseki knew perfectly well how many soldiers the Army contains. He was saying, in other words, that it was his opinion that stabilizing Iraq would be impossible.

His message was just ignored. And to a substantial extent, it continues to be ignored, as one still hears this frequently cited as an example of Bush and Rumsfeld mishandling the invasion. But unless you assume that Shinseki was just totally unaware of Army logistics, it's pretty clear that he was trying to send a message that we shouldn't invade Iraq without doing anything insubordinate. Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or John Warner or Richard Lugar or Tom Lantos could have asked their staff "hundreds of thousands of troops: can we do that?" and they would have heard back "no." But the politicians who wanted to back the war didn't want to hear such things.

Besides which, it wasn't actually a secret in elite quarters that the professional military thought it was a bad idea to invade Iraq, anymore than it was a secret that diplomats and intelligence professionals (to say nothing of international relations academics and middle east studies specialists) thought it was a bad idea to invade Iraq. As this classic June 10, 2002 New Republic editorial sneered "That the military brass opposes going to war shouldn't surprise anyone not frozen in amber."

Last week, as thousands of Europeans took to the streets to protest American plans to topple Saddam Hussein, a similar cry went up along the Potomac. It didn't come from liberal editorial writers; and it didn't come from Democratic members of Congress. No, the opposition to invading Iraq came from the very force that would be doing the invading: the U.S. military. We know this because high-ranking officers have been leaking like sieves--to The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and others--about how silly they consider the whole enterprise to be. In the Post, for instance, "one top general" told reporter Thomas Ricks that "the 'Iraq hysteria' he detected last winter in some senior Bush administration officials has been diffused." And indeed, over the past week, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and President George W. Bush himself have gone to unusual lengths to downplay the possibility of military action against Saddam. We find that disappointing and hope that in the coming months the president will remember what he seemed to understand so well in the searing weeks after September 11: The case for taking on Saddam doesn't require believing that an invasion carries no risks, but merely that they pale beside the risk of allowing his regime to remain in power. But in the meantime, the president needs to make another decision: He needs to fire some of his generals. Not because they oppose going to war with Iraq, but because they have been advertising their opposition in the nation's newspapers.

Under the circumstances, I really don't think that generals speaking out more loudly would have done any good. Sure, if they spoke out more forcefully Bush might have come under more attack in the press from folks like TNR for his famous habit of being overly-tolerant of dissent and hyper-deferential to expert advice, but it wouldn't have stopped the march to war.

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Comments (33)

                                  while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

It's true that when Gen. Shinseki said that a force of "several hundred thousand" would have been necessary to secure Iraq he was implying we shouldn't invade Iraq, since we didn't have that many troops available. But it's also true that he gave the same advice prior to the invasion of Afghanistan, and was rightly ignored by Rumsfeld then.

Shinseki was like a modern McClellan, except without McClellan's track record for improving the Army's training and equipment.

Relatedly, it would be nice if people understood our lack of success in Iraq as a foreign policy failure rather than a military failure. It seems to me that our military is, rightly, constrained by a series of restrictions that aren't strictly logistical. It's not clear to me that it can't be true that (a) the military is succeeding at its mission to, or even above, an extent that might reasonably be expected, and (b) we're not going to succeed at any substantial goal we establish for Iraq.

I think you may be reading too much into Shinseki's response. The limits on our military come from the length of the engagement, and the fact that the Bush administration never put the country on a serious war footing. If the threat from Iraq was real, we could have fielded an army in the 100's of thousands. It would simply have meant raising taxes in order to raise salaries and make them more competitive with what people can get out of the military. It would have meant making the case for shared sacrifice on the part of the American people, etc.

What we cannot do is field an army that size while keeping regressive tax cuts as the most important plank in policy decisions. It is true that the Bush administration never would have gone in with 300,000 troops because it would have required making politically unpopular decisions, and the point of the war was to make the administration poltically popular. But if there was actually a need to invade Iraq, we could have found the troops to make it work. (It would mean using more of the available troops upfront, and recruiting replacements to be ready when the current terms were up).

But it was important that this was a war that wouldn't require sacrifice. Shinseki's message may have been no deeper than that you can do this, but it will require sacrifice.

I don't get it. If our military has 1.5 million members, why is it impossible to have several hundred thousand in Iraq?

And couldn't he have been implying that if you're going to do this, you'd better get substantial international help? Not piss off the rest of the world?

Thanks for brining up the second war Bush lost Fred!

There are only about 500,000 active duty members of the Army. The US has commitments across the globe, notably in Korea, Germany, etc. You can only deploy about a third of your force at any one time ... a third in theater, a third getting ready to go, and a third on its way back. So, we are already operating above that level, which is why you see a certain number of members of other branches (Navy, Airforce) who have volunteered in Iraq to reach our current force levels.

Also the Army has substantial fixed stateside personnel requirements. The joint chiefs and the regional CINCs need their staffs. People need to teach at West Point and at the higher-level military schools. Recruiters need to be out in the field keeping the supply of manpower coming.

Things like that. You can't just deploy the whole Army to Iraq.

Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or John Warner or Richard Lugar or Tom Lantos could have asked their staff "hundreds of thousands of troops: can we do that?" and they would have heard back "no." But the politicians who wanted to back the war didn't want to hear such things.

And what about the politicians who didn't want to back the war? Why didn't Ted Kennedy ask "can we do that"? Or Feingold? Durbin? Boxer? Wellstone? What hanppened to them - cat got their tongue?

I agree with bg so far as General Shineski was probably implying that Iraq required substantial international help. Sadam was obviously not an imminent threat in the eyes of most of the world governments, except for those nations over eager to curry favor our imbecilic president.

IMHO, anyone naive enough to believe that the US could have successfully pulled off the Iraq invasion knew NOTHING about post-colonial world development. Any knowledge on this subject makes it obvious that Iraq was a failed state waiting to happen. Trying to keep a country like Iraq together, with its kind of deep seated animosities and significantly varying goals of among its diverse factions, in the form of a liberal democracy is absurd. Clear sighted individuals implicitly understood that Iraq required some form of civil war to solidify its borders (cue stock footage of refugees) & the US shouldn't get involved in this tragedy. The most we should have done is infiltrated the Kurds more thoroughly with CIA operatives and Special Forces: Ansar al-Islam was a legitimate target that warranted highly trained soldiers and maybe a hellfire-equipped Predator drone or two.

The scary thing is that the US just doesn't have a good precedent for leaving a failure this moronic war & the people who got us into it always seem to have ONE MORE plan...

Another view - it was quite possible to put a few hundred thousand troops into Iraq, and to keep them there for 2-3 years. It would have involved pulling up every NG/reservist for a 3-4 year active duty hitch. It would have involved a radical restructuring of the US Army from a high-tech armored warfare-centric force to more of an occupation/COIN/nation-building force. It would have involved pulling every reservist from the Navy and Air Force not needed for supporting operations into the Army for 3 years. It would have inolved drawing down every Army garrison ove the world down to ghost towns. It would have involved a major production push, starting in January, 2002, causing shortages and strains in the civilian economy.

All of which could and would have been done *if*, for example, Saddam Hussein was connected with 9/11.

But all of these things were not things that the Administration wished to do, nor were they things that the American people wanted to do.

> I'm not 100 percent sure about this. It seems to
> me that insofar as the generals are going to
> disagree with civilian officials, it makes sense
> for them to be somewhat subtle about it. At the
> end of the day, it's up to civilians to decide
> whether or not to start a war, and with good
> reason officers want to avoid actions that will
> render the chain of command unworkable.

I would strongly suggest that you read General (later Field Marshal) Alan Brooke's (later Lord Alanbrooke) diaries - the 2nd, uncensored edition. Compare it to how Winston Churchill portrayed the management of Britain's war effort and his (Churchill's) relationship with Brooke. Also read Brooke's description of his after-hours chat with George Marshall about the difference between Churchill's and Roosevelt's approach to managing the military.

Then compare either of those two approaches or four people to Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Rumsfeld, etc.

Cranky

What Barry said. Of course we could have done it if we'd deemed it necessary. But we thought we'd be out of there in six weeks.

i believe there was one general who had a chance to prevent this war - well, an ex-general.

if colin powell has resigned in disgust and said i've been there, done that, and this is a failure, we might (emphasize might) not have gone to war. no other general would have made a difference, which isn't to say that the vietnam-era-schooled generals shouldn't have resigned as well.

PS. Al, among the many arguments made by antiwar senators was that we didn't have the forces. it didn't matter, in that being "antiwar" was sufficient basis not to have your views attended to. to put it another way, cats had nothing to do with it: hawks simply filled the airwaves.

Wrong about the troop levels. The United States could have put a couple hundred thousand troops in Iraq for six months or even a year - what it could not have done is kept them there, owning to rotation schedules. The testimony can also be seen as support for a war and short occupation, not for no war.

PS. Al, among the many arguments made by antiwar senators was that we didn't have the forces. it didn't matter, in that being "antiwar" was sufficient basis not to have your views attended to. to put it another way, cats had nothing to do with it: hawks simply filled the airwaves.

Even if that were true, howard, why didn't one of the antiwar Senators follow up with Shinseki while he was before Congress?

Matthew was making the point that none of the prowar Senators followed up because they didn't want to know the answer to such a followup question. Well, fine, he can believe that if he wishes. But that ignores that the antiwar Senators asked the same exact amount of followup of Shinseki as the prowar Senators asked: none.

Interesting that the first comment should allude to the civil war.

One thing I've found odd about the whole Iraq war is the degree to which Bush & CO seem not to have anticipated the resistence to our occupation. You'd think that as Southerners (i.e. a very Texan heavy admin), they'd remember their own history with how well an occupation by liberators who tried to instill democracy on a tradition-bound feudal society was received.

I don't think reconstruction was looked upon too highly where Bush and friends grew up. I'm surprised they just didn't make the connection that Americans would be viewed by Sunni Arabs just about the same as Yankees were viewed by White Southrons. And that the Shi'ite dominated government would get just about the same reception as the Scalawags did.

At the very least, they should have prepared enough for the inevitable that they could provide enough security to get the water running again and the electricity going 24/7. At this point, everybody hates what happened, if only because they are having to deal with the desert summers without A/C. Talk about making people long for Saddam Hussein. Is this a way to promote democracy?

which isn't to say that the vietnam-era-schooled generals shouldn't have resigned as well

BTW, I wanted to mention - what I find interesting is that there were no Generals that resigned on principle. Matthew says that "it wasn't actually a secret in elite quarters that the professional military thought it was a bad idea to invade Iraq". Well, there wasn't a single General who thought it was such a bad idea so as to resign? That's either an incredible indictment of our Generals or it says that the Generals really didn't feel too strongly that it was such a bad idea. After all, if you were being asked to go to war that you thought was an incredible awful idea, would you just salute and say "yessir" or would you resign?

Regarding Generals and the lack of resignations -- Powell has pretty much said he didn't resign 'cause it wouldn't have made a difference and he figured it would be better for him to stick around and help keep things on a more reasonable course than to just quit.

While one could argue that Powell was not only just being full of himself but also that a Powell resignation would have undermined the "even such cautious, moderate figures as Powell support the war" argument that helped make it so that way nobody felt like they could oppose the war without being tarred and feathered and driven out of town, this argument certainly applied to the other generals.

Why quit a cushy job if quitting wouldn't even have an effect on things, and it would marginalize you forever? It isn't as if those who were proven right about Iraq have received any reward for being right -- on the contrary, they are still marginalized in our public discourse and those who have been proven wrong are still treated as if they are the only ones serious about national security.

Military generals have become political pawns for both sides. And I think many are beginning to enjoy that status and the attention that comes with it.

http://political-buzz.com/

wrt to Al at 12:35 and DAS, i happen to be the only person i know who ever quite a job on principle. i didn't have a replacement job lined up; the employer had relocated me and i didn't know the area that well; i didn't exactly have a large cushion of savings.

nonetheless, i could see that the project director was a terrible human being who was going to make a sucessful outcome for the project impossible, and whose treatment of other people (not me, actually), was offensive in the kick down/kiss up framework.

and so i quit, even though it wasn't going to change the project director's personality (and indeed, the outcome wasn't sucessful, but i digress). and that wasn't even a matter where people would get killed as a result.

so i get how rare it is for people to resign on principle and i get the feeling that it wouldn't have made a difference, but we're talking here about the 3 supposed bedrock principles that the army was supposed to have learned from vietnam: overwhelming force; clear mission; clear exit strategy.

so i have no respect for any of the generals who knew, in their heart, that this war of choice was a potential disaster for all they held dear and who, nonetheless, allowed themselves to go along rather than design.

and yes, as fred kaplan's interesting article yesterday suggests, i think this is a problem inherent in organizational bureaucracy and how decisions are made as to who advances, but this doesn't remove the human factor: no one made a general who thought this policy was outrageously stupid stick around. they chose to do it.

now, al, as for shinseki's testimony, my time is tight and i don't have the opportunity to look up the actual testimony, so who knows? maybe someone did question him further. maybe no serious anti-war senator was there that day. maybe someone tried to question shinseki further and he clammed up. it doesn't change the underlying dynamic: questions about the dear leader and his noble war effort were simply not being reported on in any meaningful way (the old I.F. Stone line about the wapo: "it's a wonderful paper, you never know what page you'll find the page one story").

It isn't as if those who were proven right about Iraq have received any reward for being right -- on the contrary, they are still marginalized in our public discourse and those who have been proven wrong are still treated as if they are the only ones serious about national security.

Well, that's obviously untrue.

The few Generals who decided a couple of years ago (which, of course, was years after the war began) to go public with their opposition to the war were absolutely lionized. They were given a hero's welcome by the press - magazine articles, extended interviews, etc.

Military generals have become political pawns for both sides.

Not just generals -- now we have active duty enlisted men and NCOs opining about an ongoing war on the NY Times op/ed page.

In the first gulf war I think there were on the order of 400K troops in all, so I don't think that Gen. Shinseki was going out on a limb there or trying to be an iconoclast.

I think he was merely being honest in saying what the conventional, back-of-the-envelope estimate would have been in a sane world. In any event it was in stark contrast to the 80K that Wolfowitz espoused, certainly a pipe dream that no one who had gone to West Point would have agreed to in a sane world.

In particular the 80K figure was so far off the scale, had the "Powell Doctrine" been in effect. Remember how during the 90's anything Clinton wanted to do required two or more divisions? I suspect that the "Powell Doctrine" was used in part to frustrate anything Clinton wanted to do.

But we do not live in a sane world. The upper eschelons of the military are solidly Republican. So that means that there is tremendous "go along to get along" rule in effect. The power structure of the Republican party is run like the mob - you don't disagree with the family, and there are great rewards (like plum corporate jobs after retirement) for doing what your are told. Hence, men like Shinseki, who made the mistake of being honest, are cast aside.

And don't think for a minute that the message sent by quickly ditching Shinseki was lost on the rest of the officer corp. You don't disagree with Republicans. Period.

The few Generals who decided a couple of years ago (which, of course, was years after the war began) to go public with their opposition to the war were absolutely lionized. They were given a hero's welcome by the press - magazine articles, extended interviews, etc.

Okay. Without looking it up, name any of those generals.

Re Fred

General Shinseki has also been proven to have been absolutely correct and accurate and the subsequent results of the adventure have borne out his estimate. The 140,00 troops sent in to occupy Iraq were far too few and were totally unable to provide security; the inadequacy of the force let the genie of religious discord get out of control, whereas a force twice the size might just possibly have prevented it.

I believe Shinseki's numbers were based on standard estimates for the necessary size of an occupying army, based on the record of numbers and successes over the last hundred years or so. The recognition that the needed resources were not available, and the implication that a grossly under-staffed occupation would fail, were not really his department. And that is as it should be, I think: it isn't the place of the military to decide if something should or should not be done, but rather it's up to the civilian leadership, even the shitty leadership in place now. Cheney and company were so eager for war that they were willing to believe, or claim to believe, that new technology had rendered those standard military estimates obsolete. The Iraqi people, and our soldiers, have been paying the price for this gross error.

I don't think anyone - Josh Marshall, Katie Couric, Eric Shinseki, Colin Powell - could have prevented the war if Dick Cheney and George W Bush had decided they wanted to have it.

What the military could say was "this is what it will take to be successful." We know that there were multiple iterations of the invasion plan up to the start of the war, but much less planning for the Phase IV period.

One thing that seems to have dropped out of historical memory was that there was a general expectation that other nations would provide troops for peacekeeping, but three things, I think, stopped this happening. One was the outbreak of looting and lawlessness which broke out after the fall of the Hussein regime. The second was the triumphalist tone of the Administration, particularly over the award of contracts. Finally, the UN building bombing in August closed off any window.

"At the end of the day, it's up to civilians to decide whether or not to start a war, and with good reason officers want to avoid actions that will render the chain of command unworkable."

Matthew,

Civilians can and should decide whether or not to start a war. That doesn't mean that Generals cannot be honest about the true costs and consequences of a war, and make sure that the politicians, and yes, the US Citizens, know this things.

General Petraeus' current advice that he'll be able, maybe, to stabilize Iraq in 10 years.

Compare and contrast.

One word. Resignation.

Will anyone resign when the order comes to attack Iran? OK, if the order comes.

Of course nobody resigns on principal anymore. It just isn't done.

It is exceedingly likely that the generals knew exactly how many troops would be needed to govern Iraq in a state of insurgency, and that they gave that advice privately to the politicians.

Mr Wolfowitz replied that such numbers were unnecessary because the Iraqis "will welcome us as liberators", as extreme an example of cognitive egocentrism as it is possible to find.

British experience in the 1920s was that one soldier was needed for every 23 Iraqis [1]. US field manuals recommend one soldier for every 20 local people [2], i.e. 1,300,000 US and allied soldiers. The politicians chose to proceed with a force of 130,000, only a tenth of that required. The Surge seems to be no more than a PR exercise, as it is nothing like large enough to succeed.

[1] http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/10/empire200610
[2] http://mondediplo.com/2007/02/04iran

"Civilians can and should decide whether or not to start a war."

Kevin D (and Matthew),

Generals are required not to participate in illegal wars. The attack in Iraq was against international law, and the generals who participated in its execution and planning committed crimes.

Iraq had not threatened the United States, and it was overrun with UN inspectors who were verifying that it had no nuclear or chemical or biological weapons. Therefore US-led attack was a pre-emptive war of aggression, which is a crime against the peace, according to the Nuremburg principles.

All generals (and civilians) who participated in the attack broke international law. If the generals could not stop the march to war by speaking out against it, what legal alternatives did they have other than being re-assigned to duties that had nothing to do with the Iraq invasion or resigning?


Comments closed September 10, 2007.

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