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Study Time

20 Aug 2007 09:01 am

Benjamin Wittes plays his appointed role as "liberal who agrees with conservatives about all the topics he writes about" (it seems shocking that Jeffrey Rosen wasn't available) and defends the new wiretapping law:

To know whether the new law represents a strong long-term policy response to the technological changes now challenging FISA, I would have to know a lot more about the NSA's surveillance technologies both in the 1970s and now than is public. I would want to know also how the NSA interprets phrases like "reasonably believed to be located outside of the United States" and how it means to handle situations in which such people turn out, notwithstanding the agency's reasonable belief, to be running around Cleveland.

But for whatever it's worth, had I been a Democrat on Capitol Hill, I would not have opposed this change as a six-month interim step while I studied such questions. And I would not have felt that I had sold out, surrendered, or caved in by giving the intelligence community what it says it needs while giving myself the time to decide if I agreed.

I may not be a Fellow and Research Director in Public Law at The Brookings Institution or a member of the Hoover Institution Task Force on National Security and Law, but here's a wild guess as to how the NSA is going to interpret the phrase "reasonably believed to be located outside of the United States" -- they'll interpret it so as to give themselves as broad a mandate as possible. Other ambiguous phrases, likewise, will be interpreted so as to give themselves as broad a mandate as possible. What's going to happen when they mess up: as little as possible. This is why, in the real world, we look not at administrative guidelines but rather at enforcement mechanisms.

Rules and interpretations of this sort aren't self-enforcing (you can look it up in Wittgenstein) which is why the significant part was way up higher in the piece:

"Hang on," I hear you cry. "Wasn't the 1978 FISA a restraint on government surveillance power? Didn't it put a court between the spooks and their targets? And doesn't this law remove that court in vast numbers of cases?" Yes to all.

And there's the rub. Absent meaningful checks and balances -- or even the prospect of embarrassing public disclosure -- the rule can say anything you like. It could be "surveillance is allowed only for really good and worthy purposes, and never for bad and abusive ones" and it wouldn't make any difference.

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Comments (26)

There's the problem that everything having to do with NSA is classified beyond the reach of ordinary human beings, or, for that matter, congressmen. To be explicit here, this means a need for greater, closer, and lower-level supervision, rather than lesser, looser, and higher-level.

Lest we forget, always remember the names of the Democrats in the House and the Senate who voted for this "six-month interim step."

Right on Matt. This law is bad news. Wittes doesn't seem to be paying attention or care that Dems gave McConnell what he wanted, but then the White House demanded more. The Democratic-sponsored bill in the House and Senate was much better--if Wittes were the "liberal," who is also "serious" about security, he would be supporting THAT compromise.

I haven't read the article (and I'm not going to), but I think I'm with Wittes on this. It's a stopgap that ends in six months. The Democrats hadn't prepared the ground for opposing the law now, so they punted. Is the idea that the Dem version required more frequent pleading in front of the FISA court, and that court would be the check?

Another odd thing about this guy's credentials -- he's a fellow at Brookings AND at the Hoover Institute? I guess he's the opposite of Woody Allen in that he'll join any club that will have some one like him as a member.

I guess he's the opposite of Woody Allen in that he'll join any club that will have some one like him as a member.

FYI, that was Groucho Marx.

The Democrats hadn't prepared the ground for opposing the law now...

"Preparing the ground?" What is that supposed to mean? How hard can it be to just not vote for the damn thing?

Really, why do people call Benjamin Wittes a liberal or even a centrist? On every major issue I can think of he has sided with the right. Not just the right but the far right.

He was a big defender of the Starr Chamber and even wrote a fawning book about him. He defended Bush v Gore. He endorsed Roberts and Alito as well as a scores of other right wing judicial nominees. He endorsed Ted Olson. I can go on and on.

This is the best TNR can do?

SCMT, the "stopgap" effectively lasts for the rest of the Bush presidency, and once someone's voted for this bill it's going to be very difficult to claim when it comes up for renewal that now it's an outrageous infringement of rights. When the president is from the other party, you've got to make whatever changes are needed in legislation before passing it, while you still have power to affect things, not wait and try to fix it later.

Matt, I think I can wordsmith your "as broad a mandate as possible" formulation, both to make it more precise, and to show the extremely legitimate basis on which our chief executive is acting.

Here goes:

Bush is operating on The Theory Of We Get To Do Whatever The Fuck We Want.

And so, he's doing whatever the fuck he wants.

Not hard to understand!

To be fair, the new FISA bill does provide some oversight of the procedures (developed by the AG) used to determine whether a target is "reasonably believed to be located outside of the United States." However, the standard the FISA court must apply is "clearly erroneous" which severely limits the scope of review of those procedures. So, while it may be not be meaningful oversight, it is oversight nonetheless.

The real problem is what happens when a target that was believed to be located outside the United States actually is walking around Cleveland. On that point the law is seemingly silent.

it appears now that this law had a whole lot more in it than wiretapping. It also appears that the dems DIDN'T BOTHER TO READ THE DAMN THING.
Tell me again why we pay them and vote for them??? I blasted my senator but of course got no response from Jim Webb.

Oh wait I forgot-they had to go on VACATION.

You know, when I read that first bit, I thought, "Matt must have made a mistake; Wittes used that 'I would want to know...' excuse to endorse letting Bush get his way on some previous issue," and then I saw that no, in fact, Wittes *did* use it on this as well.

I'm less certain that Wittes has used the "If I were a Democratic politician..." formulation before, and I certainly wouldn't accuse *everyone* who presents it of being a concern troll, but TNR has certainly acquired that reputation, and when it's used in the service of granting Bush more power, against both legal and constitutional limits, for ephemeral political benefit (really, are Democrats expecting a thank-you note from 43 for that?), I'd say it's pretty obvious for whom the arguments are being made.

And Matt, a word of disappointment: given the recent debate over Very Serious People and the inability of the "professionals" and "experts" to avoid conflicts of interest and bad judgment, it was very sarcastic and mean of you to say, "*I* may not be [affiliated with Brookings and Hoover]," just to remind people of the kinds of establishments at which Very Serious People congregate and decide the limits of acceptable discourse; that's practically a slur on Wittes' good name.

While I can believe that someone who'd work for Hoover would be an insufferable authoritarian-enabling douchebag (if you lie down with fleas, you're going to wake up with fleas), I cannot believe that someone would who write for TNR *and* work for Brookings would be such a tool, and it's really rather mean of you to imply that Wittes has those affiliations, with no way to confirm them, except to... oh, right, follow the link, that's a good idea... well, holy shit, he is connected to Brookings *and* TNR *and* Hoover. My bad, Matt; I'm sorry to have mistaken facts for sarcasm like that. The man *is* a dick.

(note for aspiring VSPs and sympathizers: an affiliation with Brookings is, by itself, unmeaningful as an indicator of partisan mischief, but writing concern-troll screeds at TNR encouraging Democratic politicians to wreck the Constitution for Bush and Cheney, and being connected to Hoover, undermine the innocence of the Brookings part. Really, the man might as well draw a paycheck from the Republican National Committee, with connections like those. But he is Very Serious, and we all have to respect that, right?)

What I find so odd about this whole dust-up is that many of the very same people who are so gung-ho in favor of giving the executive branch fancy new surveillance powers would actually be the first to say

here's a wild guess as to how [X] is going to interpret the phrase [Y] -- they'll interpret it so as to give themselves as broad a mandate as possible. Other ambiguous phrases, likewise, will be interpreted so as to give themselves as broad a mandate as possible.

about pretty much any other government agency (with the possible exception of the military). Why is the right suddenly so unconcerned with "gummint bureaucracy" when it comes to just about any program but those concerns fly out the window when it comes to government programs that might actually invade our privacy or even lead to convictions in kangaroo courts, etc?

*

My $0.02 on the article (which I haven't read): you know the argument's gonna be crap when it includes phrases like "the technological changes now challenging FISA". WTF? Seems to me, media hysteria about "FISA's broke" (followed up by the media going after the Democrats for voting for the very fix the media was pushing!) notwithstanding, technological changes are no challenge to FISA, which allows bloody post facto warrants to be issued!

If the NSA has reasonable intelligence that they need to listen in on a call, they can get a warrant, even after the fact, without any risk to the security of their opperation or anything! And if they don't have that level of intelligence, why are they even bothering to listen in? Have they ever considered the false positive/false negative rates of survelleince? Being someone who has done some research in data mining, I can tell you they are quite high -- the NSA would likely get more junk information than they'd no what to do with (c.f. the Padilla case, they'd be trying to follow up on everyone ordering pizza and playing football ... not to mention the old joke about the Hollywood insiders getting the FBI on their case because they were talking about a movie that was box office poison and bombed in various cities) but also be over confident that they have the information they need when the false-negative rate is high enough that they are likely missing stuff.

And to top it all off, the above quoted phrase is shortly followed with " I would have to know a lot more about the NSA's surveillance technologies both in the 1970s and now than is public" -- so the guy is saying "I don't know enough to know whether the law is a good idea or necessary, but I'm going to accuse anyone who says it isn't necessary or good of being weak on national security" ... if you don't think you know enough, then STFU Mr. Wittes ... don't accuse people who disagree with you of being dirty hippies ... for all you know, they might be right!

I wouldn't be so worried if the administraion was eavesdropping to find out what we're doing wrong.

But they're not.

They are spying on US citizens to find out what they are doing right!

And that is much worse.

It doesn't help that people keep going along with the fiction that Brookings is "a liberal think-tank". Brookings has always been a conservative think-tank. People who are too young to remember what "think-tank" means get confused because things like AEI, which is not a real think-tank, call themselves think-tanks. They're spin-tanks, which is something different.

Say it: Brookings is a conservative think-tank, which is why the things that come out of it are conservative. This has always been true.

OT: on Wittgenstein and law, I ran into a most amusuing footnote from an article by Fredrick Schauer (97 YLJ 508).

A footnote in a law review article is hardly the place to debate interpretations of Wittgenstein, including whether Wittgenstein can even plausibly be interpreted to support a pragmatist/particularist theory of meaning. Yet I would briefly note that a fair reading of Wittgenstein reveals that he argued that the meaning of a word is a function of how that word is contingently used in an existing linguistic community, but emphatically not a function of how the word is used on a particular occasion by a particular member of that community. It is crucial to recognize the seductive quality of phrases like ‘post-Wittgensteinian,’ which suggest that if the reader acknowledges Wittgenstein's genius, then she must agree with the point described in those terms. It is better to discuss the point at issue without attempting to lean on the argumentative props of associations with philosophers whose names are currently fashionable in legal circles.

"Hang on," I hear you cry. "Wasn't the 1978 FISA a restraint on government surveillance power? Didn't it put a court between the spooks and their targets? And doesn't this law remove that court in vast numbers of cases?" Yes to all.

The problem for the Worshippers of lawyers in robes/Courts, is those that believe the Courts are above both the president and Congress and have the final word on National Security matters is that is not what the Constitution spells out in listing the Powers of the co-equal branches. That is why every President, even the bark when Congress beckons, Carter, said FISA does not allow courts to meddle in the Commander in Chiefs enumerated Constitutional duty to monitor and deter foreign agents. Other comms, yes, but neither the Courts nor Congress can strip the Commander in Chief of his powers to watch for our enemy's designs - without warrant.

Courts are in as much position to lead the country on matters of National Security as "Cold Cash" Jefferson is to have Congress meddle in the court's review of law.

Nor do "terrorist rights lovers" have a case that the American Constitution extends and gives equal Rights like the 4th to our enemies. Even Americans confront some 30 major present exceptions - legal searches without warrants. Like for starters understanding that they and all their stuff and any package they mail in to the USA can be checked when crossing our Borders. If I'm returning from a Saudi Arabia journey - Lefties say - it is perfectly resonable that security examine me, search me and all my possessions without warrant - but absolutely unreasonable for any cell phone communications crossing our Borders to be checked?

Yeah, right...

90% of the FISA flap is partisan libertarian and Lefty hysteria meant solely for political gain. The other 10% is either process-lovers insisting the laws are perfect because "wise people don't make stupid reactive laws in the US, ever!" or people that believe America should be like Israel, where all issues they complain about have to go to the Courts that are the Final deciders over matters the Legislative and Executive branches of Israel decide. In Israel, lawyer-lovers proudly note that lawyers in robes are supreme over all other branches - not co-equals.

But Chris Ford ... how do we know some person, X, is an enemy? We only have the say so of the government (and since when do conservatives trust the say so of the government?) that they are only out to monitor our enemies ... they might not even know whom they are monitoring (if they did ... why not get a warrant? what would the harm be if they could actually manage to get one? it would be beneficial, in fact, because then, if US citizens were involved in criminal activities, we could prosecute them ...) ...

A larger, more philosophical point -- why treat terrorists differently than criminals? Why view terrorists as if they are some organized army? Isn't that actually conceding the terrorists' point of view? Isn't being afraid of them what they want, by defintion (terrorists want to terrify)?

BTW ... have Chris Ford and Don Williams ever gotten together? they might have a lot in common when they talk about Israel ;)

90% of the FISA flap is partisan libertarian and Lefty hysteria meant solely for political gain.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Nu? What's wrong with making a stink out of something for political gain?

I seem to remember a passage in Federalist #51 about that not being such a bad thing ...

So why don't you and all the other liberal blogs start pumping yourself up as Rock-Ribbed Conservatives that think the Bush administration is the worst in the history of the nation, and electing [fill-in your favorite Democratic candidate] is the only way America can regain Rock-Ribbed Conservative principles? Ethics, Schmethics!

Chris Ford, I hope your livelihood is taken from you by someone using their power of surveillance for profit. When our government spies on us without some protection from one of the other branches, it is only a matter of time before they use it for their own personal gain or that of their contributors. Maybe you will lose your job one day because someone else gave a little more to the GOP than you did or maybe some Democrat will bring about your downfall just out of spite...and if its legal all the easier to bring it about!

I for one have no great love for the courts per se nor do I believe they have some inherent infallibility, but at least having a check in place offers me some hope that our country isn't completely run for the profits of those in power.

Its 'terrorist lovers' like you that will kill our country. You are the terrorists' adoring pawn when you champion the destruction of our rights as you quiver in fear at your laptop.

balls

Joe Klein put this so much more succinctly when he said:

People like me who favor this program don't yet know enough about it yet. Those opposed to it know even less -- and certainly less than I do.

Matt, one would wish that the people with a microphone would start remembering who it is that calls overseas:
1. Any first generation American.
2. Their kids.
3. Anyone traveling on business.
4. Anyone calling for tech support, hotels, etc. (remember Indian call centers?)
5. Anyone traveling on vacation.
6. Etc.

A lot of Americans have participated in a call overseas in the last year, even discounting the call centers. Yes, the NSA can stretch the meaning. Yes, they can make "mistakes." Yes, they can just ignore the law and wiretap anyone. But they always could. In analysis, one should start from the immediate logical consequences and those are that they have been given a much broader license than is generally recognized.

Rules and interpretations of this sort aren't self-enforcing (you can look it up in Wittgenstein)

I don't remember anything about (the non-existence of) self-enforcing rules in Wittgenstein's work... not that I've memorized the whole oeuvre. That just does not sound Wittgensteinian to me.

Could you possibly be thinking of something about "self-justifying" rules? I think I remember something like that in either the Blue and Brown Books or the Philosophical Investigations. Or maybe "self-demonstrating" or even "self-evident" rules. (Too bad the text of those books is not available on line. Stupid, stupid copyright laws.)

P.S. Sorry to be such an ass about this but I'm curious.

L'esprit de l'escalier it may be, but Benjamin should change his first name to Fuck.


Comments closed September 03, 2007.

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