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That's Our Rudy!

21 Aug 2007 04:25 pm

McMegan says:

I am not defending Rudy, the presidential candidate. Almost no one who has lived in New York wants Rudy anywhere near the nuclear football, nor would we like to see his strongly authoritarian instincts (however much they arguably may have done for New York's policing) unleashed on the federal justice system. Rudy is craaaaaaaaazy, albeit not in a way that made him a particularly bad mayor.

This is, I think, true. The American people should spend some time considering the fact that a large number of people who voted for Rudy Giuliani as mayor and who then voted for his designated successor have no desire whatsoever to see him in the White House. Part of it is just that being crazy seemed "in character" for New York. It's a town full of crazy people. There was a sort of "that's our Rudy" mentality about it -- what a crazy character! -- after all, Ed Koch was crazy, too, and David Dinkins was just boring. It's a point of pride. Everyone loves the proverbial ranting and raving cab driver. One doesn't, however, necessarily want to see him running the country.

The crux of the matter is that the mayor of a city has way, way, way less power than the president. When Giuliani cooked up his nutty scheme to use 9/11 as a pretext to cancel an election, suspend the rule of law, and extend his term in office, all that happened was . . . none of that happened, since he was just the mayor. By contrast, as we've been learning lately, it's really hard to stop the President of the United States from ordering that people be indefinitely detained and tortured in secret on the basis of God-only-knows what evidence. The damage that these aspects to Giuliani's approach could do as mayor were rather limited, but as a potential president it's a whole different can of worms.

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Comments (39)

New Yorkers sure are shallow.

I think it's time to stop reading this blog. Reading someone else's mash notes just feels rude.

Actually, the harm that can be caused by potential presidents is even more limited than that which can be caused by a mayor. And anyone who believes that Megan is uncomfortable with Presidents with authoritarian instincts (and even policies!) didn't read her old site.

If the Republicans serve up Rudy, she'll serve up an endorsement.

Why do New Yorkers keep voting Republican? I don't care if they think it's cute-- they keep saddling us with awful ex-mayors who see it as a launching pad for national office. Enough. Vote for a greasy dem who's satisfied with a little graft and a few laughs and stop saddling us with egomaniacal, semi-authoritarian dweebs! That gay dwarf Bloomberg won't even DENT the repub base if he runs as 3p. Worthless...

No, I think Matt's got a point here. Consider, analagously, the relationship of DC residents to Marion Barry. Sure, he's corrupt and addicted to drugs and a tax-dodger and just generally bad. But he's affectionately/ironically referred to as "America's mayor" and "Mayor-for-life".

"Gay dwarf" is hate term and way out of place.

Yesterday, I posted this:

However, it's also pretty clear that there's some kind of active cross-promotional thing going on between the Atlantic blogs, hence Yglesias's sudden links to old Atlantic pieces and the fairly horrible Marc Ambinder blog. Can we expect some good, nasty intra-Atlantic fighting here, or will Yglesias find some middling excuse to promote some of McArdle's less offensive and idiotic pieces once or twice a week?

And the answer is clearly behind door number 2.

Nothing like a truly scientific poll to make your point. I am astounded by the intellectual rigor of the argument that if one person says it's true, it must be.


Sorry, power-hungry billionaire gay jew midget is what I meant to say...

CONTEXT GARUDA! To give up their votes, repubs need someone less new york and more straight-seeming and tall-seeming. Still true but less so of the dems. Jumping to "hate term" conclusions in an internet debate reeks of hysteria troll. Get a fuckin' life, you brittle-spined pansy.

~Hitchensish/ Hemingwayesque Gregorio

The truly noxious thing about Yglesias's promotion of McArdle is that not only will this tend to, well, promote McArdle, who's little more than a right-wing hack, but that it will invariably drag Yglesias even further to the right on anything he doesn't already have a strong position on (i.e., anything other than foreign policy).

what about all the actual policy things Giuliani screwed up while mayor, leaving his temperament aside? those were hardly trivial. eduation? law (mis)enforcement? etc.

Giuliani apologia, even in this retrospective, local vein, is the first sure sign of rightward slippage. What New Yorkers really viewed Giuliani as a wacky mascot type? Stupid ones, Republican-leaning ones, Bloomboogers, Liebermenschen.

Consider, analagously, the relationship of DC residents to Marion Barry. Sure, he's corrupt and addicted to drugs and a tax-dodger and just generally bad.

You need to take a closer look at Barry's early career, home rule, etc. There's affection for him from those days, I think. I think the similarity is that New Yorkers similarly--and understandably--associate Giuliani with the solving of certain problems associated with their city.

Well the harm that can be caused by a potential president is practically nil because a potentiality isn't much. An actual president can screw up the world far worse than an actual mayor because the federal government's monopoly of violence is a far bigger franchise than than a city's monopoly of violence. You can escape Mayor Caligula by just moving across the city limits, how far do you have to run to escape President Caligula and the fallout (literal and actual) of his decisions?

Over the weekend C-Span ran an Max Boot interview of Stanley Weintraub about his new book, 15 Stars (about Generals of the Army Eisenhower, Marshall and MacArthur).
http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=8405&SectionName=After%20Words&PlayMedia=No

Weintraub, a Korean war vet himself, is an old school MacArthur hater. And yet he makes the comment that MacArthur may have been a good president. He ruled Japan during the Occupation and even Weintraub concedes he's the greatest occupying general in military history. Perhaps his liberal policies in Japan (Hugo Chavez style land reform, universal health care, giving women the right to vote, trade union protection) had opened his eyes that government can be a force for good.

So if a crazy general could make a decent president, perhaps a crazy mayor could make a decent president as well, sort of a reverse Peter Principle. I wouldn't take that bet, but stranger things have happened.

It strikes me that Yglesias recently plugged Brian Beutler's blog, and not only does Beutler write in a similar style, but the actual content he produces is better, more liberal, and doesn't go out of the way to promote right-wing hacks.

... or will Yglesias find some middling excuse to promote some of McArdle's less offensive and idiotic pieces once or twice a week?

Posted by Christmas | August 20, 2007 3:08 PM

I see that Christmas beat me to the punch.

SCMT: Some of it is a holdover from his activism, but for instance take a look at this post from DCist. These people weren't around in the 70s (some probably weren't born), but rather than treat Barry as a criminal, they treat him with a kind of exasperated affection--like an adorable puppy who just can't stop chewing your shoes, only with more hookers.

Man, I hope Markos adds a tetris java ap to his site to keep you nutjobs occupied. It's bad enough having to read this kind of crap in the course of keeping up with that place...

Fair point.

New Yorkers who liked what Rudy 'did for crime' in the city generally didn't care that the his attitude towards petty criminals and 'troublecausers' was similar to Manhattanites' attitude to garbage.

What would President Rudy do? Dump panhandlers in Mexico?

And yes, if it's company policy to link to McArdle, creating the illusion that she's not a self-regarding hack, then it's a policy that sucks pustulent donkey dick.

beowulf:
You didn't mention one thing. MacArthur understood Japanese culture. He showed deference to the Emperor(who is still highly regarded over there, even now). I could go on, but you get my point. He respected the people, and they in turn respected him. That is the key to why MacArthur succeeded.

beowulf:
I forgot to ask, how was MacArthur crazy? At least MacArthur was brilliant. I couldn't say the same thing about Rudy.

Re Gregorio

"Sorry, power-hungry billionaire gay jew midget is what I meant to say."

Would Mr. Gregorio care to provide some evidence that Mr. Bloomberg is gay. Apparently, his current girl friend doesn't think so. Obviously, Mr. Gregorio is jealous of Mr. Bloombergs' financial success.

There is the pretty important point that Mayors don't have a foreign policy, so being a neo-con nut job didn't really matter back then.

"The crux of the matter is that the mayor of a city has way, way, way less power than the president. When Giuliani cooked up his nutty scheme to use 9/11 as a pretext to cancel an election, suspend the rule of law, and extend his term in office, all that happened was . . . none of that happened, since he was just the mayor.

No, none of that happened because we have rule of law. If Giuliani were president he wouldn't have been able to extend his term extralegally either.

By contrast, as we've been learning lately, it's really hard to stop the President of the United States from ordering that people be indefinitely detained and tortured in secret on the basis of God-only-knows what evidence.

Actually, what happens routinely in NYPD interrogation rooms is closer to torture than any of the allegations about treatment of terrorist detainees.

Uh, people did not vote for Rudy because he was charmingly crazy (???), they voted for him because he made them afraid of black people taking over the city.

Dear SLC: as you and Mr. Garuda fail to comprehend, my post was not my personal opinion, but my expression of why a Bloomberg presidency would not seriously harm the Republican party. I.e., he is diminutive, effeminate, a New Yorker, Jewish, elfin, sprightly, dashing, debonair, charismatic... and does not froth at the mouth as much as Rudy when the words 9/11 or Terror are mentioned, and therefore would be a girlier Hillary to most Repubs.

Enough with the homophobia/heightist trolls! It's blog commentary, not a homily, ferchrissakes.

Uh, people did not vote for Rudy because he was charmingly crazy (???), they voted for him because he made them afraid of black people taking over the city.

To be fair, New Yorkers were *already* afraid of black people taking over the city when Rudy started running. Giuliani just took advantage of it.

tps12 --

racist!

yours faithfully...

Everybody's racist-- it's those who act accordingly that are the problem.

No, none of that happened because we have rule of law.

...except that if Freddy Ferrer hadn't objected, it would in fact have happened.

the irony here is that the GOP supposedly favors "small government" b/c it is a check on the king of england from kicking in the door of your house. Rudy's not a king, although he is a knight.

Giuliani was a popular mayor because crime fell so spectacularly during his time in office. But there's lots of things he did as Mayor that make the prospect of his presidency a scary one. One example is the time Giuliani ordered the NYC Transit Authority to take down bus advertisements that poked fun at him. It's not that big a deal when a Mayor trashes the 1st amendment, but a President....

You know, Gregorio, when nobody understands a post you make, it's probably more your fault than the fault of everyone else reading the blog.

Joe Klein's Conscience,

You're absolutely right about MacArthur. As vain as he was, the man was almost as great as he thought he was. He was as brilliant a general as this nation has produced. It speaks well of Roosevelt that, though he disliked the fellow, he kept the man in high command because he recognized his gifts.

"Crazy" was a reference to his, for lack of a better word, crazy plan to escalate the Korean War and hit China with nukes. Of course who's to say he was wrong? If we end up in a nuclear war with China this century, I suppose historians (those that survive and not writing in Mandarin) will rue the day Truman fired MacArthur.

Matt, I think you completely misunderstand why Giuliani was elected mayor of NYC.

It's not because New Yorkers have an innate fondness for "crazy people." It's because David Dinkins was a *%@%$ disaster.

During the Dinkins administration, the perception (and to some extent the reality) was that NYC was one of the most dangerous cities in the country, crime was out of control, and no one was doing anything about it. While some of this was due to larger national trends, and racism did play a role here, the fact remains that Dinkins really didn't do much to make New Yorkers feel safe. This was a recipe for electing Republicans.

According to Wikipedia, Dinkins "withheld police protection during the Crown Heights Riots, publicly endorsed the accused shoplifters at the Korean grocery, and he used city funds to pay for the funeral of the drug dealer whose being shot by police sparked the Washington Heights Riots." Now, we all know that Wikipedia is not always a reliable source, especially on controversial issues; but what is certain is that the above reflects the thinking of a great many New Yorkers. Dinkins was too concerned about angering special-interest constituencies (e.g. Al Sharpton) to take seriously the concerns of many law-abiding citizens about crime.

Kerik!

That was yet another facile fallback position for Jane Galt: "I didn't mean that crazy thing I said, what I actually meant was ..."

And then Matt fills in the blank. How chivalrous.


Comments closed September 04, 2007.

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