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The Fundamentals

28 Aug 2007 06:25 pm

I'm not sure I quite understand where Josef Joffe comes from. Or, rather, why it is that a certain number of editors seem to feel that North America can't supply a sufficient supply of wingnutty commentary on foreign policy without importing additional labor from Germany. But for whatever reason, Joffe has firmly established himself on the post-9/11 scene as Europe's premiere purveyor of ludicrous neoconservative arguments. In yesterday's Wall Street Journal he offered a forecast of the things that would happen if the US were to withdraw from Iraq:

  • "Iran advances to No. 1, completing its nuclear-arms program undeterred and unhindered."
  • The Sunni Arab states "are drawn into the Khomeinist orbit."
  • "[E]mboldened jihadi forces shift to Afghanistan and turn it again into a bastion of Terror International"
  • "Syria reclaims Lebanon"
  • "Hezbollah and Hamas . . . resume their war against Israel"
  • "Russia . . . rebuilds its anti-Western alliances"

One might note that Joffe's thinking about this essentially parallels the paranoid fantasies of the domino theorists, but Joffe actually acknowledges as much but just insists that this time things are different. But this is crazy. Iran may or may not build a nuclear bomb, but our ability to prevent this won't be seriously impacted by our presence or absence in Iraq. Similarly, anti-Israel violence from Hamas and Hezbollah wax and wane according to those groups' own imperatives, it has nothing to do with Iraq. And, again, anti-Syrian forces in Lebanon either can or can't resist Syrian efforts to impose its will. Outside powers like the United States and France may or may not be able to help sympathetic groups in Lebanon. Having tens of thousands of American countries engaged, at great expense, in an unpopular occupation of a nearby country is neither here nor there.

Why would the Sunni Arab states be drawn into the Khomeinist orbit? What would this even mean? Will Hosni Mubarak convert to Shiism? Will the UAE just hand its oil over to Teheran? It's very hard to imagine any of our friends in the region deciding that Russia would be a more useful ally than the United States, and if Iran already dominates the whole region then it's hard to believe Russia will be able to dominate it too. By the end, Joffe has the whole world collapsing into anarchy as American hegemony collapses:

For all the damage to Washington's reputation, nothing of great import can be achieved without, let alone against, the U.S. Can Moscow and Beijing bring peace to Palestine? Or mend a global financial system battered by the subprime crisis? Where are the central banks of Russia and China?

These are good questions, but the answer is, of course, that the United States will still be the world's primary economic and military power no matter what happens in Iraq. The United States is, simply put, not nearly so fragile as Joffe imagines. We'll still have our 300 million people and our $13 trillion GDP and our aircraft carriers, universities, etc. All that stuff that made us an important and powerful country in the first place is still here. We've been seeing in Iraq that it doesn't make us omnipotent. Joffe is acting like facing up to that reality in Mesopotamia would somehow reveal all the rest as just a mirage, but it's all real. America and the world will survive.

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Comments (20)

In a way, Joffe is the Peretz of Germany (though Joffe is smarter and less obviously as bad as Peretz)--he heralded the decline of Germany's Die ZEIT as an editor. He consistently made bad, neoconservative arguments that turned off a liberal, left audience--the base of the paper. Sound familiar?

Having tens of thousands of American countries engaged, at great expense, in an unpopular occupation of a nearby country is neither here nor there.

"Nearby" is a relative term. I've never understood the alarmists who go on about the threat to Israel, and to a lesser extent, Lebanon, posed by Iraq, and now Iran.

Do any of these people ever look at a map? Not only is, for example, Israel separated from Iran by about 1000 km, there are also two countries between them!

The fact is that the logistics of an invasion are immensely complicated. It is hard enough to invade an immediate neighbour. It remains that the US is one of the sole countries in the world capable of launching an invasion against a country it does not immediately border...

anti-Western intruders like Nazi Germany

Also nice, especially from a German. Obviously, "anti-German Nazi Germany" would have been even better, but maybe he's saving that for a special argument.

Joffe is operating in the tradition of seemingly reasonable but actually nutty German strategic thinking that brought us World War I.

Joffe is operating in the tradition of seemingly reasonable but actually nutty German strategic thinking that brought us World War I.

Oddly, my reaction was that the editor must have read his name as Joseph Joffre, and thought it a real coup to get an op-ed from a Marshal of France

"Why would the Sunni Arab states be drawn into the Khomeinist orbit?"

Iran has been working hard to establish itself as the leader of the Muslim world in opposition to the West - that is, Christendom, in the anti-Crusader mindset of the fundamentalists. Iran's client, the Shi'ite Hizbollah, has tremendous credibility among Sunni Palestinians and others due to it performance in last summer's war. No, Mubarrak won't convert. He'll be overthrown by the Muslim Brotherhood. It's not at all difficult to imagine an alliance of Shi'ites and fundamentalist Sunnis based on the themes of hostility to US presence in Muslim lands, hostility to Israel, and hostility to Western cultural norms. And if Iran obtains an A-Bomb and Iraq becomes an Iranian client state, the leader of that alliance will be Iran.

I'm afraid I remain optimistic about Sunni and Shi'a ability to continue hating each other.

Matt, I agree with most of what you say here,but not this: "The United States is, simply put, not nearly so fragile as Joffe imagines. We'll still have our 300 million people and our $13 trillion GDP and our aircraft carriers, universities, etc. All that stuff that made us an important and powerful country in the first place is still here."

We no longer have much of a manufacturing base, and what we do have is still being shut down or sold off or outsourced. Not counting the occasional pocket of quality or the upper class's schools, we no longer have a primary or secondary educational system that's worth squat. We no longer have a labor movement with any muscle to speak of, and what's left is atrophying; this means there's no longer a powerful lever to defend the working class and lift it into the middle class. We no longer have a vital and growing middle class; rather, we have a middle class being squeezed from many directions, with many families being forced back down the economic ladder. We no longer have the world's leading health care system -- not even close. We no longer have enough of our own oil to fuel our society without relying on suppliers who hate us. For the last 6 years the "$13 Trillion GDP" has been powered by an artificially inflated housing industry that's now collapsing and a financial system so byzantinely contrived that it makes 3 card monte look like a savings bond -- also collapsing. We have gone from being the world's most important producer to being its most over extended consumer. Above all, we no longer have the ability to get things done. Exhibit A: The gaping hole at Ground Zero, six years later. Exhibit B: New Orleans, two years after Katrina. Exhibit C: Iraq. Exhibit D: The national infrastructure.

It's getting darker than you think.

I find it hilarious that Matt thinks Joffe is a neocon. Yet more proof that Matt has no idea what a neocon is. If your reasoning for calling him one is his criticism of the Israel Lobby thesis, then you truly don't realize how wide the acknowledgment was that that was truly a terrible excuse for scholarship. Other than that, whats your reasoning for calling him a neocon? That he thinks a military is necessary? Well, he also sides with Nye and thinks Soft Power is necessary. The foreign policy analysis on this blog is often so one dimensional that it's not exactly a positive assessment on the teaching abilities of Stephen Peter Rosen - who, it's been rumoured, Matt took a class with once.

Hey Jim Whelan-

The "gaping hole at Ground Zero" is more an illustration of the byzantine politics of New York real estate than a symptom of general American decline. Similarly, B's relevance to your thesis is debatable. C and D I might tentatively agree with, although they're pretty sweeping generalizations.

You might be more persuasive if you were more specific.

it's funny to see someone dinging Joffe for nutty German strategic thinking. by way of more background...Joffe's a Jew who came of academic age in the US. the guy IS a neoconservative of the american stripe. he's not just a purveyor of it.

in europe, he's regarded, by the way, as very serious. he speaks on panels and has friends in the defense ministry.

so i don't know who this dan fellow commenting above is, but he's totally unaware that joffe also spends a lot of time dancing with aei, ajc, aipac, etc types. those are his people.

Iran may or may not build a nuclear bomb, but our ability to prevent this won't be seriously impacted by our presence or absence in Iraq.

If preventing Iran from building a nuclear bomb includes bombing it, then our presence in Iraq is a liability. It gives Iran an easy target to hit back.

Col. Patrick Lang:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2006/07/the_vulnerable_.html

"American forces in Iraq are in danger of having their line of supply cut by guerrillas. Napoleon once said that "an army travels on its stomach." By that he meant that the problem of keeping an army supplied is the prerequisite for the very existence of the force.

A 21st-century military force "burns up" a tremendous volume of expendable supplies and continuously needs repairs to equipment as well as medical treatment. Without a plentiful and dependable source of fuel, food, and ammunition, a military force falters. First it stops moving, then it begins to starve, and eventually it becomes unable to resist the enemy. "

....

"Until now the Shiite Arabs of Iraq have been told by their leaders to leave American forces alone. But an escalation of tensions between Iran and the US could change that overnight. Moreover, the ever-increasing violence of the civil war in Iraq can change the alignment of forces there unexpectedly."

---
Also see this:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2007/05/short_rations_i.html
___

The communist threat was a couple of degrees of magnitude more serious than the Muslim threat. For example, communism was a highly attractive ideology, capable of converting smart people at the very top of society like Alger Hiss and Kim Philby, and beguiling millions more. In contrast, how many white people in the West have ever converted to Islam?

Okay, Cat Stevens is one. Kim Philby's dad, the explorer of Araby is another. I'm sure there are a few more, but Islam is just not much of an ideological threat.

I'm not sure I quite understand where Josef Joffe comes from.

Well, a quick look into his bio would have revealed that Joffe is as much an American as he is a German (he's also Lithuanian for what it's worth). Furthermore he's not representative of German or European thinking at all, his shtick is rather to play both sides, lecturing Europeans with immense arrogance on how inevitable and generally desirable US hegemony is, while offering mild, watered-down criticism from a European perspective, when dealing with US audiences. Now in a better world people with Joffe's background might be perfect for establishing and maintaining mutual understanding, but Joffe is handicapped by his inherent superiority complex, having gone over to the dark side a long time ago and in general his political analysis not being very insightful.

Marc - so the definition of a neocon is a Jewish person who speaks at AEI? Or does merely speaking at AEI make you a neocon? You need to clear these things up, because you might need to let people like Cass Sunstein and Lynne Olson (the Baltimore Sun reporter who recently wrote an op-ed saying Bush was more like Chamberlain - and not because he was too "soft" on Iran or North Korea - than Churchill) know that they are both neocons since they have upcoming appearances in the next 2 weeks at AEI.

Here's the thing - to readers here, anyone who ever supports military action, anyone who thinks US hegemony does more good than bad and anyone who thinks that Israel is more good than bad qualifies as a neocon. The truth is, you guys don't even know what a neocon means anymore, no one does, because people have spent the last 5 years going around calling anyone whose views they don't like a neocon.

Yes, Joffe is more hawkish than your average European. But he mixes both aspects of realism and Joseph Nye's "soft power" than he does anything resembling neoconservatism.

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/news/opeds/2002/nye_unilateralism_bg_041402.htm

"As the German editor Joseph Joffe has written, "unlike centuries past, when war was the great arbiter, today the most interesting types of power do not come out of the barrel of a gun . . . Today there is a much bigger payoff in `getting others to want what you want,' and that has to do with cultural attraction and ideology and agenda setting . . .""

But then again, maybe Joseph Nye is a neocon too? Please report back with this information, Marc. Inquiring minds want to know.

The "gaping hole at Ground Zero" is more an illustration of the byzantine politics of New York real estate than a symptom of general American decline. Similarly, B's relevance to your thesis is debatable.

Whelan's point stands. Our messed-up politics is a reason we can't get anything done, and a symptom of decline. Notice both the examples he gave (Ground Zero and New Orleans) are areas where there is massive bipartisan consensus on the need for action, yet things aren't happening.

Don't be so complacent. This stuff is worrisome. Compare what we built, created, achieved in the 30s, 40s, 50s, as a much poorer society, to our record recently.

I agree with Arun - our presence in Iraq considerably lowers our ability to prevent Iran from going nuclear. It creates the hostage situation Arun mentions, it legitimizes Iran's fears that we're a threat (after all, our forces are sitting there on their border), it decreases our ability to have a credible military backup, and the effect on our world image makes it harder to get other nations to squeeze Iran.

Dan, Joffe is a neocon because he embodies the neocon mindset of assuming that American hegemony (and not the soft hegemony of Nye and Slaughter, but a borderline imperial type of hegemony) is in itself always a good because American ideals put to practice are always good and the US has the best ideas and thus has the right and the duty to use force to coerce other countries into accepting those ideals on American terms. As other commenters above have noted, he has a different schtick for when he addresses American and European audiences, so this allows him to seem more reasonable than he actually is. His basic message is that Europeans and other non-Americans should just STFU and let the US do whatever it wants for their own good.

"Here's the thing - to readers here, anyone who ever supports military action, anyone who thinks US hegemony does more good than bad and anyone who thinks that Israel is more good than bad qualifies as a neocon. The truth is, you guys don't even know what a neocon means anymore, no one does, because people have spent the last 5 years going around calling anyone whose views they don't like a neocon."

Creating a strongman argument of the views of the people you're addressing isn't going to win you any points. Neoconservatism is a as close to a dead ideology as an ideology can be dead and still have the editor of the Weekly Standard appear on FoxNews. Just about everyone who takes it seriously anymore works at the Washington Post, the Washington Times, AEI, Heritage, PNAC, the National Review, the Weekly Standard, the New Republic and Commentary. This small circle of elites that are cut off from the rest of the country and the world have just become a self-obsessed circle jerk. It's a bit like seeing the last few holdouts of revolutionary Marxism-Leninism holed up in a couple of European universities and Berkely. They would be funny if they weren't so pathetic.

to readers here, anyone who ever supports military action, anyone who thinks US hegemony does more good than bad and anyone who thinks that Israel is more good than bad qualifies as a neocon.

By that measure, I would have to identify myself as a neocon, since I have supported military actions in the past and I'm sure I'm not alone in that here.

The latter two criteria, though, are a bit silly, since they are ridiculously broad: US hegemony has done some good and some bad, sure, but what time-frame are we arguing here, shouldn't we judge US actions separately in every case and is it not perfectly reasonable to contend that a multi-polar power structure is preferable to hegemony by one power? Similarly Israel is neither good nor bad, but Israeli governments and military do things and reasonable people reserve the right to judge what they do in each case. These are all reasonable viewpoints.

Conversely, it is totally unreasonable to expect people to just embrace US hegemony, because they are told that the US are the good ones or have supposedly on balance done more harm than good. It is unreasonable to support Israeli politics and military actions, whatever they might be, because one acknowledges and defends the right of the Israeli state to exist. And, to expand a bit, it is totally unreasonable to naively put your faith in the ideas of a rag-tag band of intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals, simply because they are convinced that they have seen the light and know the path.

All of these predictions are absurd; but the assumption behind this one is by far the funniest....

Emboldened jihadi forces shift to Afghanistan and turn it again into a bastion of Terror International

Of course. Now I understand. We invaded Iraq in order to draw the jihadists away from Afghanistan, so we could fight them in Iraq. Next, we will invade Syria, to draw them away from Iraq, and we will continue to invade each country in a circle, until the terrorists get dizzy and fall down. Operation Tazmanian Devil.


Comments closed September 11, 2007.

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