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The Giuliani Doctrine

15 Aug 2007 11:11 am

Rudy Giuliani's Foreign Affairs essay really is a bit of a revelation. To understand it, I think you need to understand the broader context of the political dilemmas he's facing. One is the simple dilemma all the Republican contenders face -- namely that the conservative base remains fanatically committed to a grandiose view of "the war on terror" that most Americans have grown disillusioned with. Indeed, the conservative base appears to be more committed to this vision at this point than is George W. Bush. After all, while I think the rise of moderate foreign policy in the Bush administration has often been overstated, there's no doubt that the President has softened the edges somewhat. Don Rumsfeld is gone. Rumsfeld's cookiest subordinates are gone. John Bolton is gone. Etc., etc. etc. But the Hugh Hewitt crowd, the Rush Limbaugh listeners, the Glenn Beck fans, and that whole lot still, in essence, want to see a bloody, bloody, bloody foreign policy.

The most natural way to finesse the fact that this agenda's become unpopular is to try to stay vague in your primary campaign. Emphasize points of agreement with Bush, emphasize points of disagreement with the Democrats, but leave yourself some of the proverbial wiggle room.

Rudy, though, has another problem. He's got a kinda unconservative record on God, guns, and gays, to say nothing of the baby-killing or his past stances on immigration. Can he really afford wiggle room? Maybe not. That kind of political calculation combined with a gut-level love of confrontation and years of association with the strange faction that is New York City-based conservative intellectual life has produced a striking decision to double down on neoconservative foreign policy.

Giuliani's treatment of the concept of "peace" and the concept of "realism" are striking. He doesn't particularly object that realism might block some do-gooder scheme or another. Instead, he objects that realism would "place too great a hope in the potential for diplomatic accommodation with hostile states" and "exaggerate America's weaknesses and downplay America's strengths." He opposes, in other words, the realist concept of peace in which the United States and other countries choose to make deal that reconcile our interests through positive-sum collaboration rather than through negative-sum military conflict. Lots of people on the left have some qualms about realism, sometimes rightly so, but this core notion isn't something any liberal worth his salt objects to. You preserve peace by seeking diplomatic arrangements that accommodate everyone's interests, thus avoiding conflict. Giuliani doesn't believe that. He believes Bush abandonned "a decadelong -- and counterproductive -- strategy of defensive reaction in favor of a vigorous offense." Counterproductive is key here. Giuliani thinks that "we must understand that our enemies are emboldened by signs of weakness" so any expressed desire to cut deals actually undermines our safety and invites attack.

The result is a chilling vision of a world where peace can only be achieved through American military domination. Giuliani disparages the UN harshly, and puts forward no vision for reforming it. He wants to transform NATO from a geographically limited defensive alliance into some kind of globe-spanning UN substitute -- a sort of formalized coalition of the willing.

This has been the kind of thinking that's animated the Bush administration at its very worst moments. You get the immediate problem that America's military edge can be countered by nuclear weapons. So it becomes very important to prevent countries from getting nuclear weapons. This can't be done through the UN-backed process of the Non-Proliferation Treaty and international law, or even through diplomacy more generally, because that would signal weakness. The only tools available are coercion -- military and economic. Of course, signaling an American desire to invade lots of countries only makes other countries more eager to get nuclear bombs. What's needed, then, is a credible threat to fight a whole series of wars. This, in turn, becomes one of the motives for trying to do Iraq and Afghanistan with super-light forces. We want to signal that we're ready and willing to do this again and again and again until all countries submit to our will.

Needless to say, this approach has already been put to the test and failed. Its advocates -- including Norm Podhoretz -- have treated to this kind of fantasy world where we're going to "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" as a substitute for the invasions we can't pull off. These airstrikes, however, are even less effective than the too-cheap invasions. So, while we're bombing, we're also going to be engaging in a massive military buildup involving "a minimum of ten new combat brigades" along with whatever quantity of "of submarines, modern long-range bombers, and in-flight refueling tankers" he comes up with. Plus missile defense. Giuliani says, astoundingly, that "The idea of a post-Cold War "peace dividend" was a serious mistake -- the product of wishful thinking and the opposite of true realism."

The result of this policy is going to be an endless series of wars, a bankrupt country accounting for way more than fifty percent of world defense expenditures, fewer and fewer countries willing to cooperate with us on key priorities and, perhaps worst of all, more and more nuclear proliferation as countries decide its not safe to live in a world where the Rudy-led USA is the big kid on the block.

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Comments (70)

...Giuliani disparages the UN harshly, and puts forward no vision for reforming it.

I figure this is just a natural consequence of all those UN-diplomat-related parking hassles. Any mayor of NYC would come out the same....

The rest is frank psychosis....

This is precisely what scares me about Rudy. I think all the republicans are clowns, but Rudy is a scary clown.

massive military buildup involving "a minimum of ten new combat brigades" along with whatever quantity of "of submarines, modern long-range bombers, and in-flight refueling tankers" he comes up with. Plus missile defense. Giuliani says, astoundingly, that "The idea of a post-Cold War "peace dividend" was a serious mistake -- the product of wishful thinking and the opposite of true realism."

And, of course, he plans to pay for it all with tax cuts

Rudy is the only Republican I would consider voting for this time around. We could do worse than having a New York Conservative in office. At the very least, it would send Dixie back to the back of the bus (finally). No more southern presidents.

In Guiliani, the american flavor of fascism underlying the modern GOP comes right to the surface. There's really no other way to see this program of willful destruction of civil liberties, unapologetic war crimes, and serial military aggression against other countries.

If Guiliani becomes President, the american experiment with secular constitutional democracy is over.

All clowns are ultimately scary clowns, John. But Giuliani is more like Shakes the Clown.

The Base's apparent or alleged dedication to the GWOT is an improper dissection of their desires. They want to kill black, brown and yellow people. Period. If hunting Mexicans was legalized tens of thousands of Republicans would load up the truck and head out for the slaughter. Same goes for Asians and anyone else not White. It has nothing to do with terorism. They want to kill "Them". Toss gays in there for good measure. I'd venture many on the Right dream of the day actual terrorists somehow make it ashore and are readily identifiable. Stay indoors and lie close to the floor when that happens for the lead will be flying.

Sure, you can say a lot of negative things about what it would be like to have Giuliani as president. But, at least it wouldn't be boring!

I'm not sure that this is political expediency, a decision to "double down" in order to over come his social liberalism. He may actually believe it, which is all the more worrying. When you think about it, maybe Rudy sees foreign policy with "bad" states as like dealing with the mafia in nyc. The solution, through his lens, is to crush them with everything he's got. There's a long tradition of presidents drawing on their personal experiences to shape fp. usually this is the misguided notion that fp is just like the horsetrading of normal politics, e.g. "if I vote for a post office in his district he'll vote for one in mine" approach.

"That kind of political calculation combined with a gut-level love of confrontation and years of association with the strange faction that is New York City-based conservative intellectual life has produced a striking decision to double down on neoconservative foreign policy."

I think you're on to something here, and it really galls me. After having Rove politicize national security and foreign policy (with such lamentable consequences), it is particularly alarming to see Guiliani base something so important as foreign policy on 1) a desire to compensate for his liberal social policies and 2) a way to come across as the biggest bad ass in the presidential race. Of course, that Rudy's foreign policy would lead to endless war and national bankruptcy is even worse.

Is this what the GOP has come to?

If hunting Mexicans was legalized tens of thousands of Republicans would load up the truck and head out for the slaughter.

Say what?

, perhaps worst of all, more and more nuclear proliferation as countries decide its not safe to live in a world where the Rudy-led USA is the big kid on the block.

Or even a Concert of Countries Not Willing to Unilaterally Accede to Any Future US Demand.

At the very least, it would send Dixie back to the back of the bus (finally). No more southern presidents.

The Dixie you're concerned about isn't all Southerners, but a subset of Southerners--Southern Republicans and those who seem to need their approval.

Well, you know that peace can only be won when we've blown them all to kingdom come.

Ave Rudy Imperator.

The result of this policy is going to be an endless series of wars, a bankrupt country accounting for way more than fifty percent of world defense expenditures, fewer and fewer countries willing to cooperate with us on key priorities and, perhaps worst of all, more and more nuclear proliferation

Not to mention, widespread death and destruction.

No more REPUBLICAN presidents, period.

Asuming he wins the primary, will the media cover the ultra-neocon genocide fantasies Rudy is currently unfurling to woo the base...or will it all fall down the memory hole as he lurches towards the center and focuses on 90's-era Clinton scandals?

It will probably depend on whether or not Hillary - assuming she is the Democratic winner - chooses to make an issue of Rudy's crazed foreign policy ranting and raving. Clinton's foreign policy team will likely consist of Pollack and O'Hanlon types. In other words, she will be eager to appear "tough" on terrorism.

That's what scares me about the general election. We may end up with a Republican (Rudy) who moves towards the center...and a Democrat (Hillary) who moves to the right...with the hapless media unable to meaningfully distinguish their positions by the time the election rolls around. One thing is clear: the media will not spend much time revisiting Rudy's arch-neoconservatism if Hillary ends up trying to out-tough him with carefully parsed slogans about "American strength."

If Guiliani becomes President, the american experiment with secular constitutional democracy is over.

Given Guiliani's post-Dacalogic personal life, what follows will be secular, but it won't be constitutional, or democratic.

This scares me, if he wins the nomination. For every fundie who stays home, a fear-addled, authority-worshiping closet racist who couldn't otherwise bring him or herself to vote for a southern, Talibornagain Republican comes off the bench.

We're guessing there are more of the first than the second, but we're guessing.

I think not enough has been made of the fact that Giuliani may not gay bait, but he sure as hell will race bait. And so he'll still get those votes.

For "cookiest" you might mean "kookiest."

I'm sure you heard Edwards's comment on Giuliani's article:

"Bushism without the thinking."

Giuliani is also in danger of unleashing an even more unpleasant dynamic than those mentioned here. For instance, the fact that the US already has such a powerful military compared to the rest of the world (something which gives lots of strategic options) is due to the fact that A) the US spends quite a lot on defense at the moment but far more importantly B) that the rest of the world is spending little.

However, the more instability that the neocons manage to create, the higher the chance that other powers such Europe, Japan, China and India will start rearming in a serious way. Between them, given enough time, they can support more military force than the US has, considering their larger populations, manufacturing bases and GDP. This would return us to a world where there are many Great Powers, with the Us having to work far harder to keep any kind of lead.

In fact I suspect that the Yglesias approach, involving (as I understand it) a focus on diplomatic institutions to keep the peace between big and medium-sized countries, plus keeping a slightly smaller, but flexible military to beat up small fry, would be more effective at maintaining US hegemony than the unsubtle Giuliani method which is just begging for global-scale blowback

"But the Hugh Hewitt crowd, the Rush Limbaugh listeners, the Glenn Beck fans, and that whole lot still, in essence, want to see a bloody, bloody, bloody foreign policy."


There's a difference between wanting war, and believing that you face hostile opposition. When you want to argue against policy, try to understand what you are arguing against - it's clear that your view of the right is as cartoonish as many views the right holds of the left.

This really gets to the heart of why Giuliani is actually the worst of all possible Republican candidates. He may be the most libertarian on cultural issues, but without a Congressional landslide none of the other Republicans would be able to institute a hard right domestic agenda. And Giuliani would be dealing with a conservative base that doesn't trust him and will hold his feet to the fire on judicial appointments.

But on foreign policy, the man has the exact same combination of ignorance and bellicosity that we've been dealing with for the last 6+ years. His instincts may even be WORSE than Bush's and he's more arrogant to boot. He's got Cheney's level of belligerence and Bush's level of experience. Norman Podhoretz is whispering in his ear. And yet much of the media continues to call him a "moderate" and kiss his ass for doing nothing more than showing up at the office on 9/11.

He is the worst of all possible US Presidents.

Rudy is the only Republican I would consider voting for this time around. We could do worse than having a New York Conservative in office. At the very least, it would send Dixie back to the back of the bus (finally). No more southern presidents.

Posted by JFD | August 15, 2007 11:27 AM

Yes, but that hus will be going off the cliff.

As a regular reader of Foreign Affairs, I know they invite contributions from all sorts of perspectives but, you know, it strikes me that an editor's note attached to this one would've been warranted, or an additional sentence in the bottom of the page bio. Had they done this, I think, Matt, that you provided the most reasonable and succinct sentence possible:

ed. note: This man is batshit insane.

Had that been added, all would have been well.

Too bad the Unabomber isn't still alive and writing. He could be in the next edition, positioned as a moderate.

I think Hillary is just as bad as Giuliani. Seriously, the entire Republican program is to accuse Democrats of being wimps. Hillary's husband responded to that by being completely indifferent to human life-- he was even ready to go to war with Iraq himself in 1998 and sent Albright and Berger around the country on a disasterous trip to promote it. He executed Ricky Ray Rector. He started several wars.

So if Hillary becomes President, she's going to resolve every dispute on the side of being tough. She's never publicly opposed a war in her life. She will keep us in Iraq forever, with permanent military bases. She will not talk to foreign leaders if she feels the right wing will use it against her.

She's said as much. Hillary Clinton is a hard-right reactionary neoconservative on foreign policy, just like Giuliani.

In Giuliani you see the consequence of remorselessly "appealing to the base". Eventually, you're appealing to the basest.

Of course, the scary part is that these notions fit Giuliani like a condom.

Sea Captain: Arr, here be a fine vessel -- the yarest river-going boat there be.

Homer: I'll take it! [The raft sinks]

Sea Captain: [sadly] Arr, I don't know what I'm doing.

"Hillary Clinton is a hard-right reactionary neoconservative on foreign policy, just like Giuliani."

Dilan Esper: Are you suggesting that the only difference between HRC and Rudy is one of tone? That, deep down, she wants to amp up military spending, turn NATO into a roving militarized coalition, and reinvigorate the doctrine of pre-emption? I'll concede that she's hawkish and sensitive to attacks on her right, but I'm not sure it's fair to conflate her positions with Rudy's.

I think Hillary is just as bad as Giuliani.

Then you are out of your mind.

Save us from these "Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same" types. They're the reason we got Bush in 2000.

Matt, while you are right to credit Podhoretz for some influence in this piece your readers would grasp the Giuliani foreign policy better by reading Prof. Robert G Kaufman's book, "In Defense of the Bush Doctrine". This piece is nothing but a sample of what Kaufman refers to as moral democratic realism.

She's not "just as bad as" but she's no real alternative, either. She's a relentless free marketeer with no desire to change the corrupt system that keeps bloodthirsty "centrists" like her in control of the Dems. To truly reform this country and make it a better world, electoral politics and business as usual must not simply reform but be destroyed. In such a logy, saturated political climate, it's hard for radical ideas to catch fire. How bad does it have to get before they will? I will not vote for Hillary, no matter what. Clintonian Democrats are NOT OKAY. With Obama, Edwards et. al there is a whiff of possibility of real change, but not for Admiral Hill & Co. Wolves in sheep's clothing to say the least.

Don't blame me for a Giuliani or Romney presidency-- blame the bloated, cowardly centrist Dem base that nominates Hillary. THEY are at fault, and I am holding to my principled desire for a GENUINE ALTERNATIVE to free-trade, pay-to-play politics as usual.

What struck me is that Rudy is trying hard to establish "The 9/11 Generation" as a brand, rather like the "Pepsi Generation," and to get people to identify with it so he can play on, essentially, brand loyalty. That is truly sick, especially since it might work.

Athlon brings up very good points. For instance, do we want Japan to change its constitution to create a military more formalized and larger than the SDF because the Japanese public is further scared by both the US and China? Do we want to see Russia, China, India and possibly others (Indonesia? The EU? Brazil? Australia?) become strategic competitors rather than partners as they grow more paranoid of the US? Nixon's use of making people in other countries think he was half crazy depended on 1) using it only against small, dependent states like South Korea (voluntary export restrictions on electronic consumer goods, for instance) 2) detente with our biggest competitor and 3) opening to China when it was rather paranoid instead of feeding that paranoia to find any success. Since the neocons hate Kissinger because he practiced diplomacy too much and didn't do enough killing of innocent people, Giuliani and/or his advisers will not copy the positive aspects of the Nixon as psycho model but will only retain the psycho.

"So if Hillary becomes President, she's going to resolve every dispute on the side of being tough. She's never publicly opposed a war in her life. She will keep us in Iraq forever, with permanent military bases. She will not talk to foreign leaders if she feels the right wing will use it against her."

This is what happens when former young Goldwater campaigners and presidents of the Wellesley College Republicans start becoming too powerful in the Democratic Party.

Dilan and others who make this sort of argument need to learn the difference between rhetoric and action. Bill Clinton may have talked about war with Iraq, but he didn't SEND 150,000 TROOPS THERE, which is a relatively important difference between Clinton and Bush FP. Bill may have involved us in the Somali conflict, but when we faced casualties he got out rather than surging in more troops. Of course Democrats have to talk tough about their willingness to start wars, half because our political culture is totally debased and half because the threat of attacks is a pretty useful stick in FP (look at how well it contained Hussein - no WMDs whatsoever because during all those Clinton years he actually believed that the US might invade). The problem is when crazy rhetoric crosses over into crazy action, and then that action has to continue endlessly because we can't admit that the rhetoric was over-blown. Rudy actually would cancel diplomatic efforts and invade more foreign countries. Hillary will say whatever she thinks 51% of the people will vote for, but would govern as a fairly reasonable moderate.

I trust Hillary as far as I can throw her (I am feeble and she has a low, low center of gravity).

So, Dillan, if HRC is just as bad as RG, if they are the nominees who are you going to support?

None of the above.

Matt --

You sort of draw this out, but I think it's important to make it explicit: Under Bushism, you at least have an explicit focus on terrorism, Islamic extremism, or somesuch. The idea that we'll ever end these phenomena and be "safe" is, of course, a fantasy, but it at least provides in-principle constraints on policy choices; one would expect even your average Republican to agree that once we defeat the terrorists we can return to the more-or-less peaceful existence we enjoyed during the 1990's. Except reading this, it seems clear that Giuliani wouldn't agree. Peace can only come as a consequence of accommodating others, and accomodating others is such an act of cowardice that Giuliani seems ultimately to just be opposed to peace as a matter of principle. At least Bush gave us a kind of dumb Wilsonianism where the object was to make the world safe for X and Y, but with Giuliani, the object isn't to make the world safe for anything, at all; it's just to keep fucking people up until no one's left. If Reagan's motto was "Peace Through Strength," Giuliani's motto should just be "Strength!"

From the sky comes a scream, as Homer is crashing right into the
Capitol. A few footsteps later, he comes running down the stairs.

Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They're
nothing but hideous space reptiles. [unmasks them]
[audience gasps in terror]
Kodos: It's true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about
it? It's a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.
[murmurs]
Man1: He's right, this is a two-party system.
Man2: Well, I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate.
Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away.
[Kang and Kodos laugh out loud]
[Ross Perot smashes his "Perot 96" hat]
-- "Treehouse of Horror VII"

Good one Gregorio, way to work in the lite misogyny. Me, I trust Hillary about 100 times more than I trust Giuliani.

If Reagan's motto was "Peace Through Strength," Giuliani's motto should just be "Strength!"

DM:
Cheney and his crowd have supported this type of thinking since they got into office. Their stated goal always has been to maintain US hegemony in a unipolar world by supporting a bulked up military capable of fighting more than one war at a time. After 9-11, they created a doctrine of preventative war to undergird this worldview. Rudy, apparently, in view of all evidence to the contrary, agrees with this position and wants to get the ball rolling. Maybe Cheney can be his SecDef.

@fnook: 100 x 0 = 0

Maybe you would know that simple equation if you weren't distracted by your "monthly infection." PS: There's nothing "lite" about my misogyny-- or Hillary for that matter.

~Lawrence "Misogynist in Effect if not in Intent" Summers

Lisa: "Nuke the whales"? You don't really believe that, do you?
Nelson: Gotta nuke something.

Should I even ask what the hell free trade and "free-marketeers" have to do with the topic at hand?

He wants to transform NATO from a geographically limited defensive alliance into some kind of globe-spanning UN substitute -- a sort of formalized coalition of the willing.

Which raises the question of how willing the other NATO nations would be to go along with Giuliani on that scheme.

You suggest that Giuliani has doubled-down on neoconservatism. I had the opposite reaction to the piece. This may be an issue of how to define neoconservatism. I’ve always associated it with unrestrained strength (skepticism of institutions) and militarized democratization. Giuliani is skeptical of international institutions but his comments on the subject really aren’t shockingly radical. The expanded Nato idea is odd and probably unworkable. He thinks the UN is cumbersome and barely workable, though he stops short of saying it should be disbanded.

I thought there was a step back from neoconservatism when discussing Iraq. I don’t recall the word ‘democracy’ being used. He has switched to the concept of stable government. This suggests he is open to some form of friendly authoritarianism developing. There are some kind words for democratic idealism in the piece. The practical theme, however, is ensuring stability. Neoconservatives have been known for their skepticism of the traditionally realist preference for stability. Giuliani tries to walk a tightrope between the two but ultimately I thought he came down on wanting stable governments rather than democratic regimes (at least in the near future).

This doesn’t get at your main point about Giuliani’s vision winding up in a series of wars. You’re biggest concern appears to be this sentence or realism: “It would also place too great a hope in the potential for diplomatic accommodation with hostile states.” I didn’t read this as him opposing the “concept of peace in which the United States and other countries choose to make deal that reconcile our interests through positive-sum collaboration rather than through negative-sum military conflict.” I thought he was simply leaving open the possibility that there are specific states that have extremist regimes cannot be dealt with as if they are ‘normal’ states. This makes sense when he starts discussing Iran, mentioning that the Islamic Republic has “been determined to attack the international system throughout its entire existence.” His jab at realism then is minor: sometimes regimes and ideology matters. Positive-sum collaboration is possible with other powers. For example, his stance on China is notably mild, with a specific mention of wanting to work with rising great powers.

The piece is conservative. It really isn’t batshit insane. It’s not like he talked about nuking Mecca, or invading Pakistan.

Daniel Munz, actually, it wasn't Clinton who sent troops to Somalia. That was GHWB. Clinton did send troops to Kosovo, though. But you're right that comparing Clinton's military engagements to GWB's is ridiculous.

Absolutists like Gregorio will never be satisfied and their cynicism is very useful to the right wingers out there.

Personally, I really dislike Hillary intensely probably for all of the same reasons Gregorio does. But I'd vote for her in a second over any of the potential Republican nominees. In 2000, Ralph Nader told us there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore. Perhaps never in history has a human being been so wrong. The world has suffered enormously as a result.

Hillary will be WORLDS better as president than any of the Republicans out there. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind. Politics is the art of compromise. Hillary is a politician and she sometimes says and does things I don't like to please people I don't agree with. It would be nice if we could elect someone other than a politician as president, but that's just not possible. Politicians all suck, but some such more, so much more than others. If you're looking for an ideologically pure, unblemished character you can "believe in", go join a cult. If you want to elect a decent president who will begin the work of reconstructing the nation in the wake the disaster known as George W. Bush, vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is.

Folks, Hillary DID send 150,000 troops to Iraq. She voted for the war, and CONTINUED TO VOCIFEROUSLY SUPPORT IT IN 2004, 2005, AND 2006 when it was perfectly clear that it was a disaster. Further, she continues to support it now. She refuses to say she will pull all the troops out, refuses to renounce permanent military bases, and told Ted Koppel the troops will still be there after 8 years of her in the White House. She SUPPORTS the continued military occupation of Iraq.

I realize that thanks to brave protesters at Ohio State University and other places, Bill Clinton was talked out of war with Saddam. But as I said, that means nothing given that Hillary intentionally killed 3,500 brave American servicemembers so that she couldn't be accused of being weak.

Look, all you Hillary supporters need to stop pulling the Ralph Nader card. If you don't want people to vote for third party candidates or stay home, NOMINATE A CANDIDATE WHO WILL END THE WAR AND OCCUPATION IN IRAQ. It's not that hard.

And yes, I fully expect Hillary to bomb Iran, if the alternative is to look weak. It's not like she cares about human life-- she's proven that in the Iraq situation.

As a starry-eyed idealistic absolutist, I must admit that I am irrational when it comes to Hillary, but would vote for almost any other potential Democratic nominee. We owe the Clintons for the 8 years "moderation" that paved the way for the "compassionate conservatism" of Bush. Never in history has an administration been so wrong. Instead of maintaining power, the Clintons' brand of centrist politics shifted the discourse rightwards-- with ample assistance from the right wing pundits, pols, think tanks and lobbyists. It began in 1994, with Newt Ascendant, and peaked in 2000, with the Stolen Election. To blame this on leftists and progressives is like blaming WWII on communists; utterly unfair and selective. Everybody played their part, and though I wasn't yet 18 in 2000, I would have voted for Gore, but wouldn't-- and still don't-- blame anybody in voting for Nader. The system is corrupt. A vote for Nader is an indictment of the system. Blame the system, not the critic. For shame, blaming Democratic electoral failures on critics seeking to push the Dems to live up to their promises, remember their base, and fix the system. It takes courage to not vote for the lesser of two evils. The onus is on the lesser evil to not be evil at all. Providing a clear alternative is a stronger position than pandering to some mythical moderate masses. We shall see if the Democratic primary voters agree.

I'm not voting for Giuliani. There are many reasons but in foreign policy alone it would be another lost decade and I don't think the country, or the world, can afford that now.

For that matter, there isn't a single Republican who deserves anyone's vote. After the past two terms, that (R) after a candidate's name should be an automatic disqualifier. The country needs a Democratic president and, yes, any of the top-tier Dems would be an improvement.

So I don't equate Dems and Reps, but I don't equate all the Dems either. I am rather amazed that so many bloggers (not all, of course) are sitting out the primaries, not really caring too much which Dem gets the nomination. To be specific, I am shocked that Hillary Clinton is getting a free pass from so many who would call themselves progressives. She doesn't have the support of many readers, but few of the bloggers have gone on record to oppose her. If HRC becomes president, we'll still be in Iraq and debating the war in 2012, and God knows, 2016. And if she wins with the support of the netroots, don't come to me and tell me you won. I'll tell you: you've been had.

Matt,
As always, impressive. If there's a nit to pick, it's that I don't see Giuliani as being backed into a corner with this (he's doing great in the polls). I see him as being the candidate who best characterizes the authoritarian instinct that has been driving the Republican Party's foreign policy. This instinct is obsessively focused on the Middle East and it relies on the paradox of believing that we will defeat our enemies in that region by thinking just like them.

If HRC becomes president, we'll still be in Iraq and debating the war in 2012, and God knows, 2016.

I agree (actually with everything, not just what I pasted). I'm growing convinced that Hillary will win and then face a strong net-roots supported primary challenge in 2012 (because we'll still be in Iraq).

It's a minor point, I know, compared to some of the other lunacies in Giuliani's article, but apparently he wants to fight a whole series of wars with moderately-sized countries like Iraq , Iran and Syria, and he wants to build up the US military to do so, and in particular he has concluded that what we really need for his purposes are more . . . submarines.

Submarines?

Unreal Veal (11:37AM) asks:
" ... it is particularly alarming to see Guiliani base something so important as foreign policy on 1) a desire to compensate for his liberal social policies and 2) a way to come across as the biggest bad ass in the presidential race. ...
Is this what the GOP has come to?"

Short answer: yes, but the GOP "came to" this long ago. Ask yourself this question: are high-end tax cuts a necessary part of neo-con dogma? As far as I know, not. But un-taxing everything except wages is the everlasting, fundamental mission of the GOP. So the _real_ reason (inside their own heads) that Dick and Dubya embraced the neo-con dream of "reshaping the Middle East" by toppling Saddam was this: we can parlay a quick and easy victory over a tinpot dictator into electoral dominance for ourselves, and finally guarantee that Paris Hilton can inherit her daddy's un-taxed capital gains tax-free.

If you think my theory is implausible, compare it to every _other_ hypothesis about why they chose to invade Iraq.

So, Giuliani may be batshit insane, but he's not a new phenomenon. He's a Republican. Tax cuts for the rich are his goal. Chest-thumping foreign policy pronouncements are the means. If he was serious about fighting "The Terrorists' Global War on Us", he would be calling for a draft and for (gasp!) the taxes to pay for it.

I thought submarines (a.k.a subs) were referred to as "Heroes" in New York, and everyone agrees that Giuliani is a hero, so what he's really saying is we need more heroes to fight all these wars, heroes like Pat Tillman who we can shoot when they become inconvenient, and then cover them in cheese and special sauce and feed them to the ravenous media, a lapdog which never bites our hand!

Subway- eat flesh!

Re: They want to kill black, brown and yellow people.

I disagree that there’s a racist motive here. Not that long ago this crowd was fanatic about confronting Soviet Russia—and last I checked Russians are quite white. Also, Middle Easterners are the same race as white Europeans too.
Now you might make a case that here’s a religious motive here, that the War on Terror groupies hate Islam, because A) it isn’t Christian and B) it active competes with Christianity, attracting scads of converts as Judaism and the several far Eastern religion do not.

I'd like someone to explain the substantive difference from Hillary's foreign policy and mainstream Republican foreign policy.

Russians themselves may be "white" (though consult Steve Sailer- he's the authority, and I'm not sure how he or his buddy Hitler feel about Slavs) but many of the citizens of Russia happen to be of Asiatic origins. And while the policy architects may just more likely be outright xenophobes, much of the rhetoric on street level is downright racist. Either way, small-minded bigotry, arising out of ignorance and directed at one's ethnicity, religious convictions, or nationality, is still an awful thing. Quibbling over whether they want to kill towel-heads or darkies doesn't change the fact that the target is being referred to pejoratively.

I heard a story on the radio this afternoon in which an official said that Americans need to be on the look out for terrorists in our midst. And the scary part is that they might look and act just like you and me. Anyone could be a terrorist!

This is amazingly similar to the fear-mongering anti-communist scare tactics of the 1950s. Really, it's almost comical.

I bring this up to back up Jonf. The racial element is incidental. The larger issue is that there's a certain strain of right-winger who needs to believe in a cunning enemy bent on destroying our way of life. This is useful to the politicians, and to the right-wing man on the street, it must appeal to some sort of innate paranoia.

This time they don't want to rape our women, they just want to circumcise them, suffocate them in burqas, or stone them to death for adultery. The Muslamanians are coming for you, peroxide-headed housewives of Amurrica! Quick! Buy a yellow ribbon decal for your Ford Explorer, turn your TV to Fox, and vote Giuliani '08 or THE TERRORISTS WIN, AND WORSE THAN HATING FREEDOM THEY LOVE ENSLAVING WOMEN.

You might be surprised how often I run into this argument among semi-educated formerly left-leaning (or at least sympathetic) women.

Without denying that Rudy's nuts to advocate war as a routine first resort, let me point out that it's silly to call his proposed 10 new combat brigades a "massive military buildup" that will "bankrupt" the country. Ten new brigades would take the Army from 10 to 13 divisions, about what Kerry proposed in 2004 (he wanted 2 new divisions). As recently as 1991, the Army had 18 divisions. But the US wasn't bankrupt then, and 3 more divisions won't bankrupt us either.

Today, even the most extreme advocate of a strong military like Rudy doesn't want military spending at anything close to Cold War levels. Be happy!

There's a difference between wanting war, and believing that you face hostile opposition.

Except, of course, since nobody denies that we "face hostile opposition" this is a vacuous strawman. (People who argue that installing Islamic quasi-states in countries that pose no threat to the United States is a bad way of combating terrorism are not, in fact, denying that terrorists exist.)

Re: Either way, small-minded bigotry, arising out of ignorance and directed at one's ethnicity, religious convictions, or nationality, is still an awful thing.

I agree with you. But again, the issue here has nothing to do with race and everything to do with religion. If you actually read what some of the more fervent war supporters are frothing at the mouth about, it's Islam, which they view as some kind of Satanic cult, and they go on and on about everything from Mohammed's polygamous marriages to the Turkish attack on Vienna in 1683. They see themselves as crusaders (yes, that very word) against a religion that has been bent on conquering the world since the 7th century. Try pointing out to them that if anything relion/culture has conqered the world, it's Christiandom, not Islam, and they will not hear you, but instead will reply with some anecdote from the Battle of Tours or the fall of Constantinople.

Well, I could join in with the "Rudy-bashing" (remember "Bush-bashing"? It's BAAACCCK!), but everybody has already done that.

The Clinton-bashing was good, too, and mostly correct. I wouldn't put Hillary on a direct par with Rudy in terms of stupidity, but if the end result is a war in Iran - which it WILL be if Hillary is elected (assuming Bush doesn't do it first) - then as they say, "a difference which makes no difference IS no difference."

Let's move on: who exactly in the MSM has read this "manifesto" and where are the attacks?

In other words, has anybody called Rudy on this yet? Anybody, that is, that anybody else is paying any attention to? I see Edwards is quoted above as saying "Bushism without the thinking." Is that it?

Or is everybody waiting until the nominations are done before attacking this nonsense? Are we all gonna wait until sometime in, what, July, August, 2008, before somebody with some national influence nails this nonsense to the wall? Or are we just all waiting for Bush to render it moot by starting the Iran war himself?

I looked at Google news today, didn't see anything about his "manifesto." Seems like a bad sign to me. Seems to me it's "let's ignore what this guy really stands for and just discuss something else about him."

We really need photos of Rudy marching in the Gay Pride Parade in 1994.

The best part about Rudy getting the nomination is that we all get to thumb our noses at the Christian Right. Dr. Dobson instantly becomes irrelevant.

What is this myth about America having the strongest military? The military cannot defeat the vietcongs, or pacify Iraq in 5 years, etc. I guess this is the myth that Giuliani bases his fp on-more wars.

Here's the most disturbing part of the essay of all IMV....
[b]
America must remember one of the lessons of the Vietnam War. Then, as now, we fought a war with the wrong strategy for several years. And then, as now, we corrected course and began to show real progress. Many historians today believe that by about 1972 we and our South Vietnamese partners had succeeded in defeating the Vietcong insurgency and in setting South Vietnam on a path to political self-sufficiency. But America then withdrew its support, allowing the communist North to conquer the South. The consequences were dire, and not only in Vietnam: numerous deaths in places such as the killing fields of Cambodia, a newly energized and expansionist Soviet Union, and a weaker America. The consequences of abandoning Iraq would be worse.]/b]

Dolchstosslegende, anyone? According to Guliani and his cronies, it's impossible for America to enter a mistaken war, impossible for America to lose one. Any defeat is attributable to those dirty hippies that lost faith in our noble civilizing mission.

1984, and Shooting the Moon

As we become actively dangerous to the world, they will organize against us. The two other blocs envisioned in 1984, one organized around the EU, and the other around China, would probably be roughly the actual outcome.

This is an important feedback loop. The foreign threat has to be actually threatening for the dynamic of controlling the electorate through fear to work. The 9/11 popularity boost has worn off because al Qaeda couldn't be sustained for long as a sufficiently frightening threat. People have to feel that they really need Big Brother for this to work, and they need something more substantial than al Qaeda to keep fear alive. General impoverishment also helps because it keeps people in constant anxiety over their personal circumstances. The blame, of course, is deflected to the Enemy, adding hate to fear. The Enemy must be fearsome indeed, constantly on the verge of annihilating us, if the struggle to fend them off requires that the economy be turned so much to supporting the war effort that people are left impoverished in their material circumstances. The same dynamic works for repression of dissent. The severity of the methods used reinforces the fear of the threat that called for such repression.

The practical difficulty in implementing 1984 dynamics is that the elements required -- war, repression, and depression -- however effective if carried to a carefully controlled extreme, are electoral poison in more moderate and less controlled forms. This admninistration's Iraq adventure is the latest example of this. Someone who wanted to rule this country, in a stable manner and for long term, by 1984 dynamics, would have to "shoot the moon" at the outset in order to reach this final equilibrium. The goal in the game of Hearts is to score the fewest points. Conventionally, you do this by avoiding taking any hearts (one point each) or the Queen of Spades (13 points). To keep things interesting, though, if you take all of the hearts and the Queen of Spades, instead of being saddled with 26 points, you score zero and all of your opponents score 26 points. If you stick with conventional political dynamics, you try to avoid pointless wars and economic downturns, because they will harm you with the electorate. But, you can "shoot the moon", and by piling disaster on disaster, create such fear in the electorate that they dare not do anything but rally around Big Brother.

We've been flirting with 1984 dynamics since WWII, which was the whole point of Orwell writing the novel. But we haven't yet "gone all the way", undoubtedly due to the energy barrier that needs to be overcome to shoot the moon. The Bush administration has undoubtedly been the closest flirtation we have seen yet, and they aren't necessarily done yet. The big question for the remaining 18 months of their misrule is whether they will go quietly, and end the administration with the moderating and compromising tactics dictated by conventional politics, or try more completely to shoot the moon. The problem with trying to end conventionally is that they tried the shoot the moon tactics just enough to both make themselves wildly unpopular and get themeselves in potential legal trouble after they step down. They are therefore under some pressure to undertake a more extreme attempt to shoot the moon, which they would presumably do by starting a war with Iran, and hoping for an Iranian retaliation that will frighten the electorate back into line.

Even if this administration does end with a whimper and not a bang, their example of a practical implementation of 1984 dynamics that almost worked will one day inevitably be imitated successfully by folks who are talented, energetic and determined enough to push the sword in to the hilt this time. Since WWII we have given the Presidency the tools to implement 1984. So far, the natural timidity bred into our politicians by the requirements of successful politics on the lower rungs of power, has kept us from the realization of a 1984 regime. But, unless we take those tools away, inevitably some unscrupulous talented person will figure this out. The Bush administration, even if it ends in the ignominious disgrace of a failed attempt to shoot the moon, has shown the way.

Giuliani is a clearly a war-mongering neocon who wants to overthrow all Muslim countries on behalf of Israel-Lobby generated campaign funds (euphemism=New York money). He believes we should still be fighting in Vietnam. And, of course, there should be no Palestinian state. He is immune to the notion that our foreign policy (like supporting Israel's occupation as well as our own occupations) recruits terrorists. Instead of reading his senior foreign policy advisor Norman Podhoretz's book World War IV, he should read The 9/11 Commission Report and the Iraq Study Group Report.


Comments closed August 29, 2007.