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"After The Surge"

19 Sep 2007 10:12 am

Thanks to the Project on Defense Alternative's compilation of exit plans for Iraq, I've just now been reading Steven Simon's booklet "After the Surge: The Case for U.S. Military Disengagement from Iraq" for the Council on Foreign Relations that contains what is, I think, one of the best diagnoses of the problem:

Leaving U.S. forces in Iraq under today’s circumstances means the United States is culpable but not capable—that is, Washington bears substantial responsibility for developments within Iraq without the ability to shape those developments in a positive direction. In consequence, Iraqi support for the U.S. presence has collapsed. Polls indicate that most Iraqis want the United States to pull out. Moreover, the Iraq war has fueled the jihad and apparently been a godsend to jihadi recruiters—and the process of self-recruitment—as indicated by the 2006 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on the global war on terror. More broadly, the Iraq war has had a very damaging effect on the U.S. reputation in the Arab and wider Islamic world. Authoritative opinion surveys show this as well. The continued presence of U.S. forces is thus a severe setback in the canonical war of ideas, which the Bush administration has correctly assessed as crucial to American interests. [...]

In 2004, Ayman al-Zawahiri, the deputy to Osama bin Laden, said of the U.S. intervention: “America is between two fires. If it stays in Iraq, it will bleed to death; if it leaves, it will lose everything.” His forecast comes disturbingly close to describing current circumstances. It need not, however, be prophecy. More than three years after the intervention began, to be sure, the United States finds itself in an agonizing strategic position. The time has come to acknowledge that the United States must fundamentally recast its commitment to Iraq. It must do so without any illusions that there are unexplored or magic fixes, whether diplomatic or military. Some disasters are irretrievable. Having staked its prestige on the intervention and failed to achieve many of its objectives, the United States will certainly pay a price for military disengagement from Iraq. But if the United States manages its departure from Iraq carefully, it will not have lost everything. Rather, the United States will have preserved the opportunity to recover vital assets that its campaign in Iraq has imperiled: diplomatic initiative, global reputation, and the well-being and political utility of its ground forces. [...]

But raising the prospect of desperate deterioration in Iraq and its environs after an American military disengagement necessarily tends to obscure two things. First, the presence of U.S. forces has not stabilized Iraq thus far. Second, conditions for instability have become structural elements of Iraqi politics. Given these facts, how long should the U.S. keep troops in Iraq, when its military presence only delays an inevitable escalation of intra-Iraqi fighting?

I still hear it often said, including by liberal-minded people, that all serious experts agree that we need to stay in Iraq, or even that the consensus on this score is so overwhelming that it's inevitable that we'll stay. Neither is true. Quite a lot of who've thought deeply about this problem have concluded that the best thing to do is simply to cut our losses and leave, focusing our remaining Iraq-related energies on doing what we can for refugees and to improve the broader regional diplomatic situation.

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Comments (24)

So, Matt: You acknowledge that your were for going into Baghdad, and now you are for clearing out and letting the chips (some hundreds of thousands of bodies) fall where they may. I understand your position--but, having opposed the invasion in the first place, I also feel that we cannot simply helicopter out. How do you even get out?

Well, at least we've reached the stage where even Very Serious People have been willing to question the assumption that U.S. troops must continue to occupy Iraq for their and our best interests.

elle loco:
Are you serious? The military knows how to get out, if and when that occasion happens. As far as your other assertion, we don't know what will happen in Iraq once we leave. Will there be short term bloodshed? Probably. Long term? Who knows. I surely wouldn't put creedence into anything someone like Tom Friedman or O'Hanlon & Pollack say.

God knows that there are much worse people out there than the people who sincerely hold the "I was opposed to the invasion but we can't leave now" crowd, but is anyone more pathetic?

Okay, elle probably isn't listening now, but in case she is, rather than go into a long recitation of the many problems with such a position, I'll simply say this: (1) our current purpose in Iraq isn't to protect the Iraqi people, and (2) even if you believe, despite number 1, that we serve that function anyway (a belief that IMO requires a pretty large suspension of disbelief), hasn't the history of the past, oh, 3000 years, taught you that the presence of a universally hated and undermanned army in the midst of a Civil War is a pretty poor vehicle for protecting the civilian population.

At some level I have more respect for some of the more bloody minded hawks. As horrible as they are, at least they, despite what some of them may say, don't have any illusions about how destructive the continued presence of the American military in Iraq is to its population.

If a Republican wins in '08 we'll stay. It will be easy for a Republican to continue Bush's nonsensical rhetoric and policies. Additionally, shoveling money to a myriad of constituencies with a financial stake in the conflict keeps campaign contributions flowing. "I'll sign off on a billion for you, you send a million back to me, OK?"
If a Democrat wins they'll piss down their legs the first major chorus of "Cut and run traitors!" comes echoing through the airwaves. Yeah, they hear it now but after winning they'll fear truly getting pegged for it. No one wants to be fingered for failure. Political inertia will assure we stay.
Bush should hang for this mess. In another time a trusted elder would leave a pistol on his desk, look him in the eye, and tell him to do the honorable thing. Of course Bush would be incapable of comprehending such instructions or the motivation behind them.

If I'm pathetic, at least I'm in good company--Juan Cole's, for example, last time I checked. There's supposed to be a referendum on the future of Kirkuk at the end of the year, though it's now perhaps headed for postponement. You hard-headed macho guys wanna leave Iraq before that? And relatedly, what is your view on the fate of the Kurds? And if you don't think our presence in Iraq, as impotent as it is, isn't preventing a vast magnification of mayhem and death--well, if we do leave in a matter of months, I'll buy the popcorn, and we can all sit around and watch.

I'm of the school that the clowns who got us into Iraq were about as sophisticated as a bunch of kids playing Risk! Now, reading all these glib withdrawal-method experts is giving me a sense of deja vu....

Simons has come up with a pretty brilliant paragraph there - surprising to see anything like this come out of the endlessly imbecile think tank industry. It sums up what is happening, although perhaps with too little indignation about the obscuring of the blood bath going on at this very moment.

elle, elle, elle,

In the real world, even if we somehow could politically start withdrawing today, we would certainly still be there in force by the end of the year. No one, least of all me, thinks that "withdraw now," even in the unlikely event that that comes to pass, means complete withdraw in, say, a few weeks or even three to four months. It means starting the process in motion now, and being out completely in, say, 6 months.

That being said, I'm not inclined to think that being there for the Kirkuk referendum will make much of a positive difference. The likely result of that referendum is likely to make the situation WORSE. So then what will people like you say? We need to stay a little longer. Until ... when? Just when will it be okay to leave - when the situation "stabilizes?" That's a recipe for being there for the next 20 years.

The Kurds? In terms of their position vis a vis the other factions in Iraq, they really don't need our help. The biggest threat to the Kurds actually most likely comes from Turkey. I'm inclined to think that, to the extent that we can protect them from that problem, a troop presence is more or less irrelevant. But if I'm wrong, let me ask you this - do you want our troops between the Turks and the Kurds if Turkey intervenes? Do you think hat would be good for ANYONE?

As for our forces "preventing a vast magnification of mayhem and death", while I'd take out the word "vast," you are most likely correct in the short run. In the long run, no. In the long run, every additional day of our presence there will increase the long term Iraqi death toll. By a lot. Now, I suppose reasonable people may differ on that point. But if you aren't at least familiar with the arguments for that belief, or if you dismiss those arguments out of hand ... well, then your head is truly deep in the sand.

But really the specifics are not even the main point. The fact of the matter is that people like you, with a sincere desire to use our armed forces for "humanitarian" goals, are some of the biggest enablers of the "clowns" who you profess to despise.. Now, it would take more time than I have now to explain WHY I think that, and even that probably wouldn't convince you. But it is the sad truth.

One last thing, then I have to run. The "clowns" remark. It implies to me basically well meaning people who are bumblers. Well they are bumblers, all right. But not well meaning. Not by a long shot.

Oh, and elle, serious question here - under just what circumstances would you favor withdraw at this point - and what's your expectation that those circumstances will obtain in, say, the next 5 years?

Larry, Once again deferring to Juan Cole, BTW, I frankly don't know. I know that is not a satisfying answer. That's one good reason why I'm glad I'm not a politician--they have to constantly be looking for the pony, whether it's miraculously hidden somewhere in Iraq, or lies somewhere in the mythical future outside of Iraq. I don't believe in ponies, in either place. I have a tragic and largely pessimistic view of life. It's one that looks to be quite suited to the next little while on this tortured planet. It's also one that makes me extremely leery of the notion that if we just rumble out of Iraq, we will not face hideous sequelae not only with regard to the catastrophe we have created in Iraq, but in blowback.

I've long recommended Simon's as the best take. It's as comprehensive and realistic an assessment and plan as I've come across, and I've been trying to pay attention as they come along.

elle loco - Could you please post a link to Juan Cole's post explaining his position(your position).

I wonder how many of the people who want us to intervene in Darfur also want us to pull out of Iraq. A bit inconsistent I'd say.

http://draggedfromthebottom.blogspot.com/2007/09/supporting-darfur-makes-me-feel-good.html

I do not want the United States to intervene militarily in Darfur; and just as in the Somali case, it appears that few on-the-ground representatives and aid workers do either.

It often seems impossible to many people that a terrible situation could be made worse by military intervention, but this is the reality.

I frankly don't know. I know that is not a satisfying answer.

elle, unlike so many people in this debate I think you do have the best intentions, but really that is far worse than an unsatisfying answer. now, of course I don't blame you for "not knowing" (who of us does?, and I only blame you a little bit for supporting the default position of more military intervention in a situation where you "don't know." But since your position amounts, effectively, to indefinite occupation of another country, against the will of its inhabitants, then maybe you should have a little more fucking humility when your deign to criticize people who are trying to end the atrocity of American occupation of Iraq.

I wonder how many of the people who want us to intervene in Darfur also want us to pull out of Iraq. A bit inconsistent I'd say.

yes, indeed inconsistent. In the unlikely event that you can find any of these rare specimens, you may tell them that I think so, and I will give them the same abuse that I'm giving elle.

Okay, Cole has moved toward favoring withdrawal, but--and you're not gonna like this--not until we have successfully executed a complicated brokering of Iraqi armistice and convened other powers to help guide the region forward. I think that probably still leaves him in the camp of the pathetic? You tell me. Here's a column he had in The Nation a week or two back:

www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20070423&s=cole

Oops--that was from late April--misread the link....

...and here's Cole's response to the Petraeus circus:
hnn.us/roundup/entries/42742.html

not until we have successfully executed a complicated brokering of Iraqi armistice and convened other powers to help guide the region forward.

Before I get into my criticism, let me offer you some sincere praise for moving away from the "I don't know" dodge.

Your first point, regarding an armistice, does, indeed, IMO leave you in the camp of the pathetic - but, even if I eschew invective, it still leaves you in the stay-in-Iraq-for-ten-to-twenty-years" camp.

But your second point, regarding a regional conference, is a good one. But since such a conference isn't happening on the Bush watch, the choice is forgo such a conference or wait another two years to leave (and even that makes the dubious assumption that Bush's successor will want to withdraw). I wouldn't wait those two years, but then this is all a pretty abstract debate, as we pretty clearly aren't going anywhere in the near future anyway.

MAtt - Quite a lot of who've thought deeply about this problem have concluded that the best thing to do is simply to cut our losses and leave, focusing our remaining Iraq-related energies on doing what we can for refugees and to improve the broader regional diplomatic situation.

Evidently not deep enough to remember that the last time the Democrats cut and ran, the refugee situation was unmanagable, the diplomatic situation (even with a genocide the Dems knew full well was underway) was unsalvagable with the US having zero clout and credibility with the Asian nations.

Chris Ford is so right. Invaded by the dreaded Vietnamese, we suffered twenty years, from 1974 to 1994, under the bootheel of a communist regime in D.C. It is a wonder that we survived, although millions of Americans starved to death. Luckily, the redstaters weren't pussyfooting around, and led by Sylvester Stallone and the guy who later went on to win the national Vietnam: Fist Alpha championship in 2005, they drove those dread invaders from our fair land, and also struck down the communist inspired laws against a man ownin' a firing arm. In fact, the Asians collectively just quit laughing at us back in 2003, even though so many of us spring from noble Teutonic stock.

We can't go back to those dark days! Imagine the Ba'athist-Al Qaeda horde that is massing on the outskirts of D.C., and has captured a starbucks and two grocery stores off of the Farmers exit on Highway 1 going into Alexandria, deposing our heroic leadership and putting shari'a following politicos like Nancy Pelosi in their place! It is just too awful.

Juan Cole isn't a stupid guy by any means - but he's also not a realist to the degree I am. Which means he doesn't understand - or, like Matt, doesn't WANT to understand - the fundamental issue here:

We are going to stay in Iraq because that's where the troops have to be to invade the Iranian province of Khuzestan where the Iranian oil is.

You can't invade Iran from Kuwait or Qatar or any of those whacked out tiny Arab places. You need a long border with Iran. Afghanistan is of course out of the question - it's too far from Tehran. The North, from Azerbaijan, is only partly feasible. Pakistan is impossible and would only help in getting near the Straits of Hormuz.

Iraq is the only way to invade Iran on the ground.

So we're staying in Iraq - until the Iraqis and the Iranians drive us out. Which they will - eventually, albeit at the cost of a million or two million more Iraqi civilians and Shia militia and probably a million or two million Iranian military and militia. But also at a cost of maybe ten thousand US dead and fifty to seventy-five thousand US wounded - or two or three times those numbers if things go really bad.

It's that simple.

Everybody forgets the original neocon plan which they laid out in great detail: invade Iraq, then Iran (or Syria, depending), then the other of Iran or Syria, then probably even Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Jordan and Lebanon - until all the oil is ours and nobody dares to bother Israel.

That plan hasn't changed - except that it's been slowed down - slightly - by reality.

Just keep reminding yourself that these guys don't live in the "reality-based community". Remind yourself where that phase came from.

And partisans like Matt who fantasize that this is all "just politics" and that it's "all about the Democrats" and the elections just don't get the reality: that it is about money and power on a global scale, not just the Washington Beltway.

But you'll never learn - the "cognitive dissonance" of living under the rule of alphas who don't give a shit what you betas think is too painful to contemplate. So you'll just keep on denying that any of this is possible. And you'll just keep on imagining that, somehow, this whole Iraq nightmare so far was "just about politics." Because if it wasn't, then Iran won't be either - and what will you believe in then?

Unfortunately for you, when Bush starts the Iran war, I'll be right here reminding you that I was right and you were ALL WRONG.

Have a nice day!


Why we must not leave Iraq
The only sentence politically correct that Bush can say today is "let's buy time".
He cannot say:
1. America is vulnerable.
2. The world hates us and we are not ready to abandon our man-eating idol, lucre.
3. We need time to review all the unsafe areas (power distribution protections, gas pipelines, among others)
4. The mission of the US forces in Iraq is to attract and resist the attacks of the radical Islamic overthere instead of been surprisingly attacked in the US.
5. The presence of our forces has nothing to do with the fate of Iraqis.


Comments closed October 03, 2007.

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