Insofar as Shawn Marion is demanding a trade and Andrei Kirilenko is demanding a trade and they're both long-armed combo forwards with expensive contracts, there seems to be a logical deal to be made here.
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AK-Matrix
26 Sep 2007 03:58 pm
Comments (29)
What's the logical deal? I thought Phoenix wanted to shed salary.
Fragile ego'd, big contract Shawn Marion doesn't seem like a natural fit for Utah, the Jazz, or Jerry Sloan.
And speaking of AK, isn't it annoying that the FIBA-Europe games weren't shown here? I wanted to watch Linas Kleiza balling.
Excepting, of course, that the more likely Matrix destination is the Lakers...
Gawd, I hope not. I love Odom. Although he'd be just amazing for the Suns.
"Gawd, I hope not. I love Odom. Although he'd be just amazing for the Suns."
Odom and Marion are both quite lovable. But I think Odom would be a better fit on Phoenix, and Marion would be a better fit on LA. As Sporting News put it:
Both Odom and Bryant have put up nice numbers in those years, but the two just don't seem to mesh. Odom operates best running the floor and with the ball in his hands. But when you play for the Lakers, the ball is going to be in Bryant's hands. Odom has been professional about that, but this is a guy who has averaged 4.6 assists per game in his career. He belongs in a ball-sharing system.
Marion is different. He can excel without having plays called for him, and he gets the bulk of his points off turnovers and offensive rebounds -- in other words, he can be productive even if Bryant dominates the ball. He also can make 3-pointers and is a strong finisher. But the biggest difference will be Marion's defense. He's among the best defenders in the league, and he and Bryant should give the Lakers a fearsome pair of defensive wings. As important as the triangle is to Jackson, the most frustrating part of the coach's return to the Lakers in the last two years has been the team's shoddy defense.
I wanted to watch Linas Kleiza balling.
Well, if you put it like that ...
Unless, of course, AK47 and the Matrix both get out of their current contracts and decide to team up as the 4/5 combo for CSKA, presenting the first true Euro test to NBA hegemony. A man can dream.
And anyway, why would Marion do well in the Sloan system playing out of position at the 3?
AK is awesome, but he'd be a bad fit for the Suns. They need shooters. Marion's shot is ugly as sin, but it's way more effective than Kirilenko's.
Odom might fit OK in Phoenix, but man, he's a way less-good player than Marion. First, defense. Marion plays it, Odom doesn't. I know, the Lakers need better defenders, but fuck the Lakers. We're basketball fans, we should be worried about Phoenix here, and Phoenix really needs Marion's D. Second, Odom's a pretty good passer, and an OK ballhandler, but he's a turnover machine. He's a bad free throw shooter. And he goes long stretches (multiple-game stretches) where he doesn't seem to be trying very hard. He'd give the Suns more size than they have with Marion, but Marion does the big-man things just as well as Odom, if not better.
Speaking of Kirilenko, is Jerry Sloan not the most distasteful human being in the NBA? I'd rather send my sister to work for Isiah Thomas than have to pretend to respect Sloan. I loved the quote Deron Williams had, in the context of a lot of AK-bashing: "I could be mad at Coach Sloan. I could hate Coach Sloan more than anything. But I'm still going to play for him, still going to play hard." Yeah, tell us how you really feel, Deron.
"Well, if you put it like that ..."
Half the fun of hoops is that all the metaphors are about fucking.
I just read Simmons' column, and he brings up something I forgot: Odom is brittle, too. Simmons is a little higher on AK's potential with the Suns. It's not that I think AK would struggle with the Suns -- he'd kick ass. I just think the team would really miss having a guy in that role who can knock down the open 3. Their offense creates a lot of open 3s, and they almost never play with more than 1 guy on the court who can't hit that shot.
Yes, AK can't shoot the J. But, imagine him playing center in an AK, GHill, Bell, Barbosa, Nash lineup. Warp f'ing speed, Mr Sulu!
If the trade goes down, David Stern will get Bush to expel all immigrants from the country so the Suns will be reduced to one starter.
"I just think the team would really miss having a guy in that role who can knock down the open 3."
Marion shot 31.7% from the 3pt line last year. By most definitions, that means he can't really knock down the open 3.
"Their offense creates a lot of open 3s, and they almost never play with more than 1 guy on the court who can't hit that shot."
Nash, Barbosa, and Bell all shot over 40% from the 3pt line. Even Diaw broke the "break-even" 33% mark.
Marion's lifetime 3pt% is 34.2, so last year was an off year. I think he shoots the 3 well enough that he fits the Suns system as a 4, but not so much as a 3.
Odom = brittle. Also, Marion is very very good off the ball, whereas Odom is best with the ball in his hands. On a team like the Suns, with Nash, Amare, and now Hill, it seems like they need an off-the-ball option, not another dude who needs the ball to be at his best.
AK, hmm, maybe, but he seems like a less-good version of Marion. And also brittle.
Marion is an idiot. Leave Steve Nash? Especially leaving him to play with Kobe the Ballhog. Sheesh.
Unless, of course, AK47 and the Matrix both get out of their current contracts and decide to team up as the 4/5 combo for CSKA, presenting the first true Euro test to NBA hegemony. A man can dream.
I endorse this. Vladimir Putin needs to make it happen.
That trade would make sense if Kirilenko's knees weren't broken down, and Marion weren't quite as awesome as he is.
Apart from jacking up a few too many 3s, he's maybe the most efficient player in the league, and Nash gets waay too much credit for his numbers. He was doing this with Marbury at PG.
Even a healthy Kirilenko is a turnover machine and a poor FT shooter.
Odom might fit OK in Phoenix, but man, he's a way less-good player than Marion.
Gawd, is this wrong. Odom is deferential and oft-hurt, but he is much, much more skilled than Marion.
"Gawd, is this wrong. Odom is deferential and oft-hurt, but he is much, much more skilled than Marion."
I don't think this is correct.
Odom is a much, much more skilled ball-handler than Marion. But I don't think that means he is overall more skilled than Marion.
In fact, I'd say Marion has a somewhat higher "overall talent level" than Odom, whatever that means. But I think Odom would be more valuable to the Suns than Marion, due to the nature of his talents. And I think Marion would be more valuable to the Lakers than Odom, due to the nature of his talents.
Co-sign Marion being an idiot for even considering leaving Steve Nash.
And Marion's fragile ego won't survive Jerry Sloan any better than AK has.
As to trading Odom for Marion, why would LA do that after seeing Odom outplay Marion two straight years in the playoffs? I'll admit Bryant and Odom aren't the perfect match, but how would Marion's ego do playing in Kobe's shadow if he can't handle the Phoenix crew who are lambs by comparrison?
I'm just over Marion, period. Overrated as all hell. Just like the Suns.
Odom is deferential and oft-hurt, but he is much, much more skilled than Marion
Maybe if you ignore the defensive end of the floor.
I don't really have to pile on re: Marion vs. Odom, but I will. Obviously, Marion's much better on D, and that's half the game. I'd argue that he's better offensively, too. He shoots a higher % from everywhere on the floor, except for 3s, and they're about even there. Odom's better with the ball in his hands, but even then, he's not that great -- as I said, he's a turnover machine, and he's better at making fancy passes than good passes. Marion scores more points than Odom on a team where he's often the #4 option. Plus, Marion is more durable, and despite his attitude, I think he plays harder than Odom.
So, basically, Odom is a better passer and ball-handler (though I think he's overrated in that regard anyway). Marion is better at everything else.
Marion's better than AK, too, but at least AK is young. He's brittle, but no more so than Odom. And his style of play is close enough to Marion's that you could plug him into the Suns' system without too much trauma.
Marion > AK > Odom
"Marion > AK > Odom"
In a certain sense, I'll go along with this.
But that's often not the crucial factor for good teams looking to fill certain needs. They're all complementary players who bring different things to the table.
yeah, this isn't even close.
Marion is much better Ak and Odom.
Phoenix won't trade. this will mirror the Kobe situation.
As to trading Odom for Marion, why would LA do that after seeing Odom outplay Marion two straight years in the playoffs?
Agree with that, though it was clearer two years ago.
Losing Marion would be a gigantic step backwards for the Suns in terms of trying to win the West. They still have to beat the Spurs, and Stoudamire can't go consecutive possessions without fouling Duncan if they are matched up. So you have to have someone who is capable of guarding Duncan but not slowing up the team. Here is the list of all the active players in the NBA who can accomplish this:
Shawn Marion.
Trading Marion would be equivalent to giving up a chance to win during the Duncan era, which is in essence gambling that the Duncan era is over because Steve Nash doesn't have that many more championship-level years left in him either.
Comments closed October 10, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
Excepting, of course, that the more likely Matrix destination is the Lakers...
Posted by Petey | September 26, 2007 4:01 PM