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Containing Iraq

12 Sep 2007 10:06 am

Kevin Drum tries to throw some water on the "Middle East in Flames" theory holding that American withdrawal from Iraq will lead not only to a short-term intensification of fighting in Iraq, but also to some kind of broader regional conflagration. Ivo Daalder and James Lindsay, as usual sensible but several clicks to my right, also make this point briefly in Democracy: "Talk that Iraq’s troubles will trigger a regional war is overblown; none of the half-dozen civil wars the Middle East has witnessed over the past half-century led to a regional conflagration."

Also worth mentioning in this context is the basic point that the Iranian and Syrian militaries just aren't able to conduct meaningful offensive military operations. The Saudi, Kuwait, and Jordanian militaries are even worse. The IDF has plenty of Arabs to fight closer to home. What you're looking at, realistically, is that our allies in Kurdistan might provide safe harbor to PKK guerillas, thus prompting our allies in Turkey to mount some cross-border military strikes against the PKK or possibly retaliatory ones against other Kurdish targets. This is a real problem, but it's obviously not a problem that's mitigated by having the US Army try to act as the Baghdad Police Department or sending US Marines to wander around the desert hunting a possibly mythical terrorist organization.

The real issue is that between the gloom-and-doom right and the modern-day decent left both emphasizing how departure will lead to bloodshed in Iraq, we've had very little recognition of the fact that how much bloodshed we're talking about is very much an open question and that we need to be thinking about how to minimize it. It's very implausible that you'd have all these countries invading Iraq. It is, however, totally plausible that Iran and Saudi Arabia, possibly with Turkey, Israel, and God-knows who else getting into the mix, might do exactly what the United States (and to a lesser extent, Iran) is already doing right now and giving the combatants weapons and money. Bigger inflows of money and weapons means a larger, deadlier civil war and we should try to stop that through diplomacy, contact groups, etc.

How effective that could be, I really couldn't say, but part of the package would have to be that we stop arming and funding the different factions. Does anyone think that the Iraq Air Force we're building is going to be anything other than a lethal participant in the post-withdrawal war? Intensified civil conflict is a real worry, but our mission in Iraq right now isn't helping that problem, it's making it worse.

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Comments (17)

we've had very little recognition of the fact that how much bloodshed we're talking about is very much an open question and that we need to be thinking about how to minimize it...It is, however, totally plausible that Iran and Saudi Arabia, possibly with Turkey, Israel, and God-knows who else getting into the mix, might [give] the combatants weapons and money.

Obama's Iraq thingy, released today:

He
would press Sunni Arab states like Saudi Arabia to use their influence to encourage Iraqi
Sunnis to reconcile. To combat terrorism, Obama would press Iran, Syria, and Saudi
Arabia to stem the flow of foreign fighters, arms, and financial resources into Iraq.
Obama also would be a tough negotiator with Syria and Iran, sending a clear message
that they need to stop meddling in Iraq’s affairs.

What would that "press" look like? I'd imagine something like this

For diplomacy to work, we need to dial up our political and economic pressure - not just our tough talk. Iran's troubling behavior depends in large part on access to billions of dollars in oil and gas revenue. That is why I introduced the Iran Sanctions Enabling Act last May, to build on a movement across the country to divest from companies that do significant business with Iran. This would send a clear message about where America stands, increasing Iran's isolation and hitting the Iranian regime where it hurts.

The bill works in three ways. First, it would educate investors and pressure foreign companies to reconsider doing business with Iran by requiring the U.S. government to publish - every six months - a list of companies that invest more than $20 million in Iran's energy sector. Second, it would give explicit congressional authorization to state and local governments to divest the assets of their pension funds and other funds under their control from any company on the list. Third, it would give private fund managers who divest protection from lawsuits, while urging the government's own 401(k) fund to create "terror-free" and "genocide-free" investment options for government employees.

I agree with MY and Kevin Drum on this. The Bushies keep pursuing the Cheney 1% doctrine - but apocolyptic events are, thankfully, quite rare...

If the politicos and the media-types keep falling into this trap, then we can't have reasonable foreign policy discussions. Any war they want to pursue (i.e. iran) can be pursued at will.

Moreover, even if one does believe the probability is greater than 1%, do we have to pursue shadowy insurgents as our sole solution? Would, say, diplomacy with the Saudis, Iran, Turkey, et. al. preempt/mute such a disaster?

In my view, the Iran divestment movement is a spectacularly stupid, wrong-headed, and indulgent piece of bigoted demagoguery.

Could I ask why it is that no one is launching a movement to divest from Saudi Arabia, where our own Secretary of State, for example, would not be permitted to drive a fucking car on account of her gender? And yet the country that is doing a much better job educating its women and giving them access to the labor market gets the South Africa treatment?

Could I ask why the one government in the region that actually seems to support the democratically elected government in Iraq, the one our soldiers have been fighting to defend against a murderous insurgency that seeks to topple it, gets a divestment movement, while "allied" countries that have closer ties to the insurgency do not?

And how is it that divestment is the appropriate step to take toward a government that has a semi-democratic, constitutional government with checks and balances; and yet a whole bunch of monarchies and dictatorships get arms deals, financial aid and diplomatic cover?

And why is it that a politician who claims to be eager to get the US military out of Iraq, and help the Iraqi government rebuild an economy and stand on its own two feet wants to take steps to prevent foreign investment in Iraq by its neighbor?

This is shameful pandering. Why the hell is Obama going along with this neocon-driven scheme?

"The real issue is that between the gloom-and-doom right and the modern-day decent left both emphasizing how departure will lead to bloodshed in Iraq, we've had very little recognition of the fact that how much bloodshed we're talking about is very much an open question."

One good sign recently was Iran and Saudi Arabia talking and trying to calm things down in Lebanon, which was probably not to Syria's liking.

Syria did basically assassinate the Saudi's man in Lebanon, Rafiq Hariri. The UN investigation on this doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Saudi Arabia has a minority Shia population around the eastern oil fields and they are treated very poorly. Iran could easily stir up trouble there.

I will wager my bottom dollar that we don't bomb Iran, although I wouldn't know which way to bet on whether President Clinton will pull the troops or not. Right now it looks like they'll be there indefinitely.

The "decent left" label is pretty lame.

@Peter K.: the 'decent left' label was self-chosen.

@Dan Kervick:: Thanks.
Further punitive sanctions as a response to increased Iranian cooperation with the IAEA are themselves an act of war. They will only convince both the Iranian people and the Iranian powerful that nothing Iran can do will lead to an easing of the hostility. This is the opposite of diplomacy.

On the actual diplomacy front: Laura Rozen passes on a report of Iran's intelligence minister meeting with King Abdullah and others in Jeddah recently.

Re Iran

According to the attached link, the administration is contemplating a 2 week bombing campaign against Iranian nuclear facilities.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3449000,00.html

Imagine how boring life would be for people like Bill Kristol, David Brooks, and Charles Krauthammer if we just left the Middle East alone and dealt with issues that were actually important?

Global climate change, resource depletion, disease, etc, do not have the ideological edge to them that get the juices flowing.

To a large degree, the whole Iraq misadventure was caused by the entertainment needs of a few elite neocons.

1) When the same people who shrug at and/or minimize the untold suffering we've inflicted on Iraq suddenly start worrying about "chaos"...and when they are, in many cases, the same people who wax rhapsodic about war with Iran...smart people like Matthew and Kevin Drum should know better than to dignify them with a response. The "chaos" argument from the hawks would be hilarious, were the context surrounding it not so unspeakably tragic.

2) What Dan Kervick said. To hell with Obama. This is fucking lunacy.

Matt, why no comment on the announcement of Barack Obama's new plan for complete withdrawal by December 2008???

Matt, why no comment on the announcement of Barack Obama's new plan for complete withdrawal by December 2008???

The same folks who are pushing the "conflagration if we leave" are the one's who pushed the "sweets and flowers when we arrive".

Both are fact-free bumper stickers invented by GOP sloganeerers. Can anyone point to a single the mideast expert in the Bush administration? No, like the White House Iraq Group, the entire administration is focused on rolling out the end-of-summer, back-to-school marketing blitz.

But of course, they are successful getting their shiny new slogan repeated and repeated ad nauseum on the TV. In the words of the immortal Colbert, that makes it "factesque".

How effective that could be, I really couldn't say, but part of the package would have to be that we stop arming and funding the different factions.

The problem is that we’ve already effectively armed the Shia. One way or another, the Sunnis are going to find a way to defend themselves. It’s better that those means are provided by us than by extreme Islamists.

I do agree with Matt that the chances of all-out genocide or regional conflagration in the near term are pretty small. After all, the same people who are predicting these scenarios are by and large the same people who have been wrong in all of their previous predictions.

The real question is whether the long term future of Iraq plays out more like Lebanon (a multi-sided civil war which eventually leads to a quasi-stable political settlement), or Afghanistan (a multi-sided civil war that devolves into warlordism and chaos, eventually leading to new forms of extremism).

It seems to me that Bush did best case planning for the war in Iraq. Now the Democrats are doing best case planning for Iraq after a hasty US departure. Best case planning is never good when it comes to war. I cannot fathom the thought process that would support us pulling out of Iraq quickly and hoping that it doesn't spin out of control and cause a conflagration in the Middle East. Some people in the US don't think that is a problem but most of Iraq's neighbors do.

Obama's campaign against Iran is neither going to work nor does it advance the US interest in engaging with Iran. Obama just doesn't get it.

Neither does anybody else in the Democratic campaign because they all want to appear "tough on terrorism".

The Republicans of course want to bomb Iran yesterday.

As for stopping the surrounding countries from arming their "proxies", I have two points to make.

First, just as the essential power imbalance between the Shia and the Sunni is what is causing the continued violence - and will continue to do so absent any way to re-align that power balance (until exhaustion sets in) - the outside factions - Saudi Arabia and Iran - have no incentive NOT to continue arming and supplying their Iraq "proxies". And the real problem there is that by doing so, they will help stave off the moment of "exhaustion" - thereby prolonging the Iraq civil war. Unless one faction or the other really gets a major power boost which enables it to definitively prevail over the other, it is highly unlikely that either the Shia or the Sunni are going to reconcile.

However, what can the US do in this regard? Basically nothing, at least with regard to Iran, without realigning its foreign policy to one of engagement with Iran. Even then, it's not clear that Iran would back off from supporting the Shia in Iraq. It MIGHT, however, if it were given guarantees against "regime change" and allowed to continue its nuclear energy program.

This is a pipe dream - Bush simply isn't going to do it. So why bother discussing it? Does anybody here think the Democratic alternatives are going to engage Iran in this manner?

The second point is that if Saudi Arabia and Iran do continue supporting their factions in Iraq, Iran is going to win. Because the Shia start out with a bigger set of militias and with the "state military" (such as it is), and they have an easier border connection with Iran than Iraq has with Saudi Arabia. Iran can also ratchet up pressure in Saudi Arabia by stirring up the Saudi Shia if necessary.

Saudi Arabia cannot win this game without calling in the US to attack Iran - which is already in the cards and is one reason the US is giving Saudi Arabia billions in new arms - to bribe them to lay down for an attack on Iran. Saudi Arabia really does not want the US to attack Iran. They can see that this is going to be a disaster for them and everyone else. But if they think they have to oppose Iran in Iraq, they will eventually have no choice but to acquiesce in a US war with Iran. The US arms sales are designed to deal with their current reluctance to support such a war.

Some people argue that it would be "rational" for Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to cooperate in influencing the Iraqi factions to reconcile, in order to minimize disorder in the region, minimize refugees into the neighboring countries, etc. The problem is that given the power imbalance in Iraq currently, there is no motivation on Iran's part to do so.

The same applies to Turkey, whose primary problem is the PKK Kurds. Turkey knows neither the Sunni or the Shia have little influence on the Kurds.

And there is no apparent mechanism by which getting these countries to cooperate could be done.

Finally, it's all hand waving because Bush, Cheney, the neocons and the Israelis are preparing for war with Syria, Lebanon and Iran all at once. So how does anybody expect to turn Iraq around in the middle of that?

Speaking of Iraq, one of the adults at The Atlantic, Robert D. Kaplan, stands up to the radical lefties impugning the characters of Crocker and Petraeus ("Bottom-Up Progress"):

" The idea that General Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker are front men for the administration is ludicrous. Until he took the job as overall ground commander in Iraq, Petraeus was a favorite of liberal journalists: the Princeton man who enjoyed the company of the media and intellectuals, so much so that he was vaguely distrusted by other general officers who envied the good ink he received. As for Crocker, he is a hard-core Arabist, a professional species that I once wrote a book about: He is the least likely creature on earth to buy into neoconservative ideas about the Middle East. Neither of these men are identified with the decision to go to war. If I had to bet, I’d say that Crocker especially would have been against it, like his other Arabist colleagues. Thus, these men have no personal stake in proving the president right. They and their staffs are much more likely to provide a balanced analysis of the reality in Iraq than senators and congressmen looking over their shoulders at opinion polls and future elections. As Petraeus said, “I wrote this testimony myself,” meaning, the White House had nothing to do with it. Watching them brief Congress Monday, I came away convinced that they made a better impression on the public than anyone else in the room."

To counter Fred's nonsense, I suggest reading Gareth Porter's article which describes the conflict between Petraeus and Admiral Fallon, his superior at CENTCOM.

Fallon considers Petraeus to be a "sycophant" and an "asskissing little chickenshit". Fallon apparently wants no part of a war on Iran and has reportedly stated he would quit rather than take part in such an operation (which means his days are numbered in the military, I'd say.)

Money quote:

"In a highly unusual political role for an officer who had not yet taken command of a war, Petraeus was installed in the office of Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Republican from Kentucky, in early February just before the Senate debated Bush's troop increase. According to a report in the Washington Post Feb. 7, senators were then approached on the floor and invited to go McConnell's office to hear Petraeus make the case for the surge policy.

Fallon was strongly opposed to Petraeus' role as pitch man for the surge policy in Iraq adopted by Bush in December as putting his own interests ahead of a sound military posture in the Middle East and Southwest Asia – the area for which Fallon's CENTCOM is responsible."

Check it out:
http://www.antiwar.com/porter/?articleid=11606

If the consequences of an American withdrawl were to fall exclusively upon Iraqis, the US would already have left.

The problem is that without a military presence, the leverage available to US corporations to secure a share of Iraqi oil revenues falls to merely what can be obtained through competitive bidding, precisely the 'nightmare scenario' that the war was launched to prevent in the first place.

It may be that in the end, that is all they will have anyway; but no politician who wants a future is going to go anywhere within a mile of a position where the finger will be pointed at him (or her) later on for allowing it to happen.



Comments closed September 26, 2007.

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