Get Whitey

Let me share Ryan Avent's puzzlement at Ezra Klein's apparent belief that black people don't like coffee shops. On U Street where we have a ton of coffee shops and a healthy number of African-American residents you see . . . lots of black people in coffee shops. Check out Mocha Hut, for example. Also the idea that "You don’t move to DC because it’s awesome, you move because it’s where your work is" meaning that "there’s little need to construct an affirmative agenda to attract residents" is badly wrong.

This analysis seems to, among other things, leave the existence of the suburbs out of the picture. There's no reason anyone has to live in DC as opposed to Arlington or Silver Spring. And, indeed, when the city was at its nadir of malgovernment and crime that's exactly what everyone did. Just like anyplace else DC needs to make itself an attractive place for people to live, and the past few years of DC repopulating itself (it's still way lower than its peak population) are driven by just that -- lower crime rates, more retail opportunities, more intense development around the newer Metro stations, etc.

Comments

While I agree that Ezra phrased that post in some infelicitous ways, one should question Avent's judgment when he writes:

You know, many of us living here think D.C. is awesome

Stockholm syndrome should be resisted, not embraced.

Posted by Petey | September 25, 2007 12:30 PM

As a former Seattlite now living in Arlington and doing most of his work and play in DC, I can say a few things:

- DC is more fun than Seattle.
- DC is more navigable on foot or public transit than Seattle. We're talking orders of magnitude here.
- People who move to Seattle from Portland are relieved to get out of that podunk town.
- I did move here for the job, but I already knew it was awesome. The coffee isn't as good, the tension is high and living is a lot more expensive, but just about everything else is better.

Posted by Angry Sam | September 25, 2007 12:41 PM

Before the usual suspects show up and start making insane racially-motivated comments, I'll just say that Ezra seems only loosely acquainted with the city he lives in. Where exactly does he hang out, Georgetown? Even in Silver Spring, there are a large number of non-white people hanging out in the coffee shops. Don't tell Lou Dobbs, but I've seen IMMIGRANTS hanging out and drinking frou-frou lattes at Mayorga.

One might even come to the breathtaking conclusion that cafe culture is all about class, not race.

The point is that cities like Portland and Seattle that cater to an upscale urban lifestyle are more successful at maintaining a healthy tax base and avoiding urban blight than cities where the mayor smokes crack and doles out jobs to his cronies. Washington learned this lesson somewhat belatedly, but seems to be recovering nicely. American demographics being what they are, this translates to more white people in cities with upscale city centers. But urban redevelopment also helps discourage the middle class black population from fleeing to the suburbs.

Race is, as it so often is in American politics, mostly a red herring.

Posted by LaFollette Progressive | September 25, 2007 1:05 PM

Angry Sam, you are way out of line! I am also a former Seattlite living in DC, and everything you say is flat false (except for the mass transit thing; I'll give you that.) Where's the happening music scene or good radio? Where are the great natural attractions a short drive away? (And, where is the weather that is comfortable enough to run around outside?) Where is the great local media? (Don't say the City Paper; the Stranger kicks the City Paper's ass six ways till Sunday.) Where is the good football team? Etc., etc. This town is all right, but anyone who thinks it's a step up from Seattle needs to get their head checked.

Posted by Spokeytown | September 25, 2007 1:09 PM

Matt, don't you think you might be inappropriately generalizing a largely African-American neighborhood in relatively well-to-do NW DC to the entire city?

Coffee shops are for the middle class *at least* and probably more skewed towards either upper-middle or student/young adult upwardly mobile crew. I doubt there's a huge market for lounging around with a $4 cup of coffee in most of NE and SE, for example.

Further, the idea the representatives are, y'know, representing their constituent groups in D.C. isn't obviated by the suburbs -- most of those constituents (again, especially outside NW) don't have the resources to up and leave.

Not to say that Ezzie is necessarily, but the two of you may be talking about slightly different aspects of the thing.

Posted by But wait | September 25, 2007 1:10 PM

Bill O' Reilly and Erza went to a D.C. coffe shop and Bill was shocked that people wern't saying "M'Fo give me my tripple venti nonfat latte."

Posted by exlitigator | September 25, 2007 1:11 PM

"Angry Sam, you are way out of line! I am also a former Seattlite living in DC, and everything you say is flat false"

Stockholm Syndrome can get folks to say some mighty weird stuff sometimes.

There's a powerful psychological incentive to decide that the city you live in is actually just fine.

Posted by Petey | September 25, 2007 1:13 PM

(sorry, edit: "Not to say that Ezzie is necessarily right, but ...")

And to echo LaFollette, I don't think he was saying black people don't like coffee shops, but rather that for much of DC's black community, coffee shops are neither a priority nor a ready-to-explode market.

Posted by But wait | September 25, 2007 1:14 PM

We don't drink that white boy shit, that real weak ass shit. We only want the hard stuff.

Posted by Toothless African American | September 25, 2007 1:14 PM

Toothless African American needs a blog.

Posted by Petey | September 25, 2007 1:16 PM

I generally avoid Starbucks because, well, I think McDonald's coffee tastes better, but I went to one in the Crenshaw district (L.A.) a few weeks back when my car died there, and guess what? Choc full o' black folks!

Posted by godoggo | September 25, 2007 1:21 PM

White guys have names like Lenny, black guys have names like Carl...

Posted by Gatchaman | September 25, 2007 1:25 PM

Anectodal note of the day (morning) out here.

I'm in the coffee shop of a Borders book store at the Emeryville Public Market (in between Oakland and Berkeley).

While hardly a "cool" coffee shop or book store, it has both.

There are about 20 people in here, including myself.

Roughly:

8 white
5 african american
5 asian/pacific islander
2 hispanic

But, the downside, people have been ordering "low foam, triple shot, cappucinos, m-fer!"

Posted by SoCalJustice | September 25, 2007 1:29 PM

OK, so first we had the thread about how the GOP only plays to racists, but deep down isn't really racist, and now there's this one. What is this, Myopia Day at Yglesias' place?

Coffee shops are for the middle class *at least* and probably more skewed towards either upper-middle or student/young adult upwardly mobile crew. I doubt there's a huge market for lounging around with a $4 cup of coffee in most of NE and SE, for example.

Three or four times a week I stop off at the Forrestville *$'s in PG County not far from SE DC. That place is routinely filled with black guys aged anywhere from 20 to 60, fanatically playing chess and dominoes.

Oh, and petey -- it's obvious that you're really self-impressed with the "Stockholm Syndrome" laugh line, but to me it sounds about as fresh as a Joan Rivers gag about LA smog. DC may not be Nirvana, but it's pretty idiotic to pretend that it doesn't have some unique attractions of its own.

Posted by sglover | September 25, 2007 1:37 PM

@Angry Sam

I really have to agree with you about PDX. Having grown up there, even through the grunge revolution and all the good times hanging out with the street kids in Pioneer Square, it is just not as great as everyone seems to think. It is, to quote you, kind of a podunk town.

Now, as an adult person looking to settle in an affordable city, I've looked back at Portland. Nope, still hate it. Schools are closing by the dozens, the whole place is insufferably hip, and it is the only place in the country where you can be a 35 year-old man/child living in your parents' basement and everyone still believes that you are just "waiting for the band to make it big." After living in DC, Boston and Philly, the slacker pace of Portland pretty much makes me want to catch the nearest plane out every time I visit.

Posted by &chik | September 25, 2007 1:37 PM

Another datapoint:

I see black folks in cafes on both sides of Capitol Hill (NE and SE). Admittedly, the ratio is not the same as the neighborhood, but I agree with the class intepretation. It's the same with Eastern Market on the weekend, yeah there are a lot of white people there, but black people are there as well.

Posted by d | September 25, 2007 2:04 PM

hate to break it to ya - but there's plenty of white folk here in DC who wouldn't be caught dead hanging around in a coffee shop either

Posted by Ethel-to-Tilly | September 25, 2007 3:23 PM

Here in Denver, there are lots of afrrican-americans in local coffee shops.

In fact, at the 24 Hour Starbucks at the Barnes and Noble on Colorado Blvd (here in Denver), it is the main social scene for the large Ethiopian/Sudanese populations. There are some night where it is 80% black.

It makes me forget that I am hanging out at a Starbucks (why can more coffee shops not be open 24 hours a day?)

Posted by Brad | September 25, 2007 3:24 PM

Someone tell Ezra that Magic Johnson is making a ton of money opening Starbucks joints all over the place in the black parts of LA.

Posted by Dilan Esper | September 25, 2007 3:32 PM

I think Ezra was just making a point about the lifestyle in DC versus the lifestyle in other big cities. He's right when he says people, and I assume he means young people, move here for their jobs, not because it's cool. Say what you want about Seattle and Portland (or Miami, Austin, Chicago, LA, Denver, or New York) but people move there because those cities have a cool music scene or they want to act, or they like living in a city near great outdoor activities, or for all kinds of reasons other than their white-collar office-based careers, which is why most of us moved here.

Certainly if you moved here for the hiking, you either came here from the Midwest or Texas, or were sadly misinformed.

That said, DC isn't a bad place, at least if you're over 30. People are better educated here than in most other big cities, the schools (in the suburbs at least) are great, and when you want some excitement you can go to U Street and watch black people drink coffee.

Posted by JimUStreet | September 25, 2007 3:57 PM

I have to take exception to the hiking jibe...there is actually plenty of decent hiking near DC plus the rock climbing is excellent and the kayaking is world class.

Posted by bboyle | September 25, 2007 4:03 PM

Well,

Ezra is going to get raked over the coals for his "young, educated, white" comment, even if he meant it innocently enough.

To play devil's advocate, I could argue that what he said was merely a description of the bohemian/art/hipster scene that is, whether you like it or not, largely the culture of white, middle-class 20-somethings. Would it be any different than someone decrying the fact that Pittsburgh really lacks the young, latino scene, and therefore, lacks the dance clubs and nightlife that he/she loves in Miami?

Posted by Brad | September 25, 2007 4:29 PM

JimUStreet:

excellent point. People work to live in many of those cities (New York an exception) while peopke live-to-work in Washington due to the fact every young, recent Ivy league grad is clamoring for access to power and opportunity in the political world.

Posted by Brad | September 25, 2007 4:31 PM

"it sounds about as fresh as a Joan Rivers gag about LA smog"

LA? Smog?

Ha!

Posted by Petey | September 25, 2007 4:56 PM

I have no idea what Ezra was getting at. what a mess of a post.

and I had no idea that my local government is directly responsible for constructing coffee jobs.

Posted by thehova | September 25, 2007 5:00 PM

Hey Spokeytown, where are the enormous cities less than three hours away from Seattle by train or car?

I'd say that something DC has that Seattle definitely doesn't have is, um, a presence of neighbors and general lack of isolation.

Posted by Daniel M. Laenker | September 25, 2007 6:04 PM

Hey Spokeytown, I'd say that something DC has that Seattle definitely doesn't have is, um, a presence of neighbors and general lack of isolation. I mean, where are the enormous cities less than three hours away from Seattle by train or car?

By the way, how's that supposedly extensive transit system coming? Have they actually started it, or are they still voting to replace it with a completely different system and then scrapping that plan and coming up with half the original system?

It will reach the airport terminal, won't it? I mean, it can't be that hard - you guys just have one.

Posted by Daniel M. Laenker | September 25, 2007 6:08 PM

Laenker;

Um, OK, it's true that DC has other large cities nearby. I'm not sure what the bonus of that is; why not just move to one of those cities? Actually, the more I think about it, what cities are 3 hours or less from DC? I mean, there's no way you'll make NYC in 3 hours. Philly's cool, otherwise you're talking about Baltimore and Richmond. Woo hoo. Meanwhile Portland and Vancouver are within 3 hours of Seattle (although if the border's not cooperating Vancouver can take longer to get to), and both of those towns beat the hell out of Baltimore, Richmond, and even Philly. Also, for $100 or so I can get on a Southwest plane in Seattle and be in the Bay area an hour later. But all of this is beside the point; if DC sucks but is close to cool cities, why not just live in one of the cool cities? Meanwhile Seattle is cool on its own, whether there are large cities 3 hours away or not.

One big advantage of DC over Seattle; if Seattlites drive to Vancouver or Portland we have to look at all of those ugly mountains, rivers, etc. while DCers driving to New York get to enjoy the majesty of the chemical plants and strip malls along the New Jersey Turnpike.

Posted by Spokeytown | September 26, 2007 10:48 AM

Seattle is nice, and has a beautiful outdoor setting, but you'd better have plenty of rain gear. Not much mass transit that I could see (monorail to nowhere!), and traffic that was plenty awful.

Where's the weather to get out and do stuff in DC? Oh, I dunno, maybe almost the entire autumn (which lasts till after Thanksgiving) and spring, about 6 months/year of really nice weather. Yes, the summer is hot and humid in August, boohoo. Head to the Outer Banks or the Eastern Shore, where the ocean is actually warm enough to swim in without wetsuits.

Hike? Shenandoah National Park is maybe an hour and a half away, not Cascade Range spectacular, but pretty damned nice in its own right. Bike? Hundreds of miles of trails throughout NoVa, up and down the Potomac, Rock Creek, up into Maryland. Kayak? Try the Great Falls area or down at Fort Washington.

I hung out in the Broadway and Capitol Hill areas of Seattle, and they were pretty cool, but I didn't see anything that blew me away. Local music scene, I guess Seattle wins that one, but so what? Any band I ever want to see usually puts the 9:30 club (one of the best mid-sized venues in the country) on their tour, and the DC area hosts huge events like Virgin-fest as well (Seattle have that recently?). And if I want to see smaller acts there's Black Cat, Rock and Roll Hotel, Fort Reno in summer, too many more to mention here.

Symphony, opera, dance, theater, museums? Though I'm sure Seattle has some nice offerings, I'm guessing DC wins on all counts. DC has nothing like Pike Place Market, score one for Seattle.

Now in terms of myopic resident wankers who love to piss and moan about the city they live in, and misinformed non-resident haters who think they know all there is to know about DC because they toured the Mall in high school and saw a news report once about Marion Barry, I'd say DC wins hands-down there.

Posted by Stockholm Syndrome | September 26, 2007 10:52 AM

DC reminded me of Pawtuckett. They both eerily make me think that I'm in some reconstruction of a city, like a 23rd century version of Colonial Williamsburg. ('see what cities were like in the early 21st century!')

End communication.

Posted by jpe | September 26, 2007 1:11 PM

It was 85 degrees in downtown SF today.

'Nuff said.

-

Posted by Hank Essay | September 26, 2007 9:38 PM