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In Uniform

19 Sep 2007 04:18 pm

Andrew links to K-Lo's account of "a meeting with the president in the Roosevelt Room of the White House for a small group of conservative journalists."

President Bush may have been most emphatic though when it came to the topic of “those left wing ads” attacking General Petraeus. The president brought the infamous New York Times MoveOn ad up without prompting, saying of his reaction to it: “I was incredulous at first and then became mad.”

“It is one thing to attack me — which is fine,” the president said. But the president's view the attack on Petraeus as “an attack on men and women in uniform.”

The ad really did make me wonder about the intelligence of the folks behind it, but that was nothing compared to the baffling stupidity displayed by Bush in saying this and Lopez in just passing the remark on without comment. The ad was, very clearly, on attack on General Petraeus and there's just no possible way a reasonable person could construe it as some kind of generalized slander against the troops.

Meanwhile, Bush's disingenuousness in saying "It is one thing to attack me — which is fine" is just staggering. For years, the man took the view that criticism of his policies amount to criticism of the idea of freedom, that to disagree with his Iraq policy was racist and unpatriotic, and all the rest. Eventually, years and years of fruitless, bungled, unnecessary warfare caused him to become so unpopular that this line of counterattack became unviable. Thus, he hit on the strategy of finding a well-regarded media-savvy general and, in essence, appointing him front man for administration. For months and months and months the administration indicated that to question its policy was to question the Great Man Petraeus. So, naturally, people came to criticize Petraeus.

If he doesn't like seeing a politicized officer's corps, he shouldn't have been hiding behind the generals in the first place.

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Comments (52)

Perhaps he thinks Petraeus is both a man AND a woman?

...but that was nothing compared to the baffling stupidity displayed by Bush in saying this and Lopez in just passing the remark on without comment.

I'm puzzled by your puzzlement. Bush is merely following the stagecraft that he himself engineered by casting handsome, uniformed Petreaus in the lead role of his Iraq production. Any criticism of Petreaus or his statements was certain to be described as "an attack on men and women in uniform". I haven't seen the MoveOn ad myself, so I can't say if it's off-base or not, but if it hadn't been that, there would have been something else making Bush and his lickspittles squawk the very same tune.

Bush is a big man. He deals with criticism like he deals with other problems. Smaller men have difficulty with criticism. Smaller men have difficulty with problems. Bush is a big man. Conservatives are big people. Step aside, little people.

Bush seems to be pretty clearly saying that by accusing Petraeus of 'betraying us' rather than making an error in judgment by believing that the surge has a chance, it's assaulting the integrity of a man who is serving our country in uniform. This seems to be right.
Now, Bush certainly has set up Petraeus for some criticism of his judgment by relying upon him to defend the surge, but I don't think allegations of treachery fall into that category.

Bush has been hiding behind the troops in political confrontations for years, pretending that criticism of his decisions is somehow criticism of our brave men and women in uniform. It's not new, and it's not stupid -- just typical dishonesty, used with full knowledge that it's dishonest, because it's worked for him. Let's hope that people are finally wising up.

Sen. Hagel made this point on Bill Maher last week. As counterproductive and obnoxious as the MoveOn ad was, obnoxious criticism is part of politics.

Bush wants to add the military to DOJ, FEMA, and everything else as institutions that he has politicized under his watch.

And it's a small point, but it was a rhetorical question that MoveOn asked. Not that that rendered the ad super-awesome, but still.

Matt,

Do you like seeing a politicized officer corps? Because you have been part of that politicization, and it won't end with the Bush administration. Something for you to remember when it comes back to bite you in the ass (and it most assuredly will).

If he doesn't like seeing a politicized officer's corps, he shouldn't have been hiding behind the generals in the first place.

That's entirely fair. Given Bush's credibility problem, I knew he would have to turn to someone else to make his case. But he should have found a civilian, or a bipartisan group. Not a General.

I don't think it's healthy for the country to be forced to take a position on a General. That's a dangerous realm for the "us-them" feedback dynamic to inhabit.

The ad uses the "betray us" term as hyperbole to point out the record the General has in pumping up the "progress has been made" line, in the face of evidence to the contrary. This and other blogs pointed out how misleading the glorified PowerPoint presentation was.

I didn't like the tone of that ad's title, but the hackles from the right strike me as a little too loud and a little too long for a one page ad in the New York Times last week. Is there nothing of substance to talk about for them?

DU

Selecting a general whose name was so easily modifiable was an obvious ploy by the White House to invite this sort of "slander" and thus have a pretense for the faux-outrage now on display.

It's just too bad that General Endless N. Stupidwar wasn't available to lead the surge.

Do you like seeing a politicized officer corps? Because you (Matt) have been part of that politicization, and it won't end with the Bush administration.

See, Matt? It's your fault for writing about it.

Do you like seeing a politicized officer corps? Because you have been part of that politicization, and it won't end with the Bush administration.

That's right. Because when Matt complains that a military officer is being used in a political way, it's MATT that is politicizing the officer corps.

Bush can hide behind guys in uniform all day - but when someone points out that's what he's doing, shame on them for helping politicize the officer corps!

I'm sure the long history of politicization that includes McClellan, MacArthur, and all the rest would go away if Matt simply refrained from saying anything about generals.

Selecting a general whose name was so easily modifiable was an obvious ploy by the White House to invite this sort of "slander" and thus have a pretense for the faux-outrage now on display.

That is exactly why I love this blog. Two thumbs up. Well done.

The phony outrage over the MoveOn ad comes from people who have absolutely no problem with all manner of vicious slander from right wingers. It's puffery, pure and simple, and it shouldn't be dignified with anything more than a snort of derision.

I am so fucking sick and tired of hearing people call out MoveOn over that ad. One day progressives are bemoaning the lack of outrage in this country; the next they're pearl clutching because MoveOn dared use the word "betray" in connection with a four-star general who is lying to the nation's face over issues of war, life and death. The wingnuts have called Democrats far worse. Meanwhile, the polls show that the ad had no negative repercussions whatsoever. People need to get a grip.

"That's right. Because when Matt complains that a military officer is being used in a political way..."

Go back and read Matt's posts on Petraeus for the last two months before you start acting naive. The campaign that Matt participated in to preemptively attack and undermine the credibility of an active duty military officer was unprecedented. It will have far-reaching consequences for our elected government and our military, none of them good.

All this shows is that the plantation owner Republicans have no idea how to come back from being in the minority.

Per McCann's famous slogan, a really good ad boils down some essential truth into a couple words that grab you by the gonads or the ovaries. Or some other delicate part of your anatomy.

The MoveOn ad was essentially true -- Petraeus betrayed the public good and the good of the servicemen and women he commands for political reasons. Polls show the American people overwhelmingly get this. So why was this ad -- which is far less edgy and visceral than anything that comes out of the right, and a whole lot more truthful -- so offensive to so many people in the Democratic Party orbit? You're a smart guy, Matt. Why does this bother you so much?

For once, we see a liberal group employing Republicanesque tactics, sans the reflexive untruth, and even some of the folks usually howling at the Democrats to fight are cringing along with the Washington cocktail weenies. What gives?

I would imagine that from MoveOn's perspective, this was a triumph. Bought them a ton of earned media, showed them pushing the squishies in congress, made them the story of the day. And that's great. But it makes me crazy to see even the smart people yelling from the sidelines going all icky over this.

Oh please trolls. The "politicization" of the officer corps refers to the transformation of selected officers into advocates for specific policies. The criticism of the officer corps, either for their acquiesence to their redefinition as members of the pundit class or for their decisions as militatry commanders, is probably politically motivated, but it does not make the officers into political figures. It subjects them to the same criticisms to which all people are submitted, although in fairness it should be respectful of their careers of service.

I am however glad to see that you have labeled MY's posts on Petraeus as unprecedented; you cannot be accused of stab-in-the-back Vietnam situations if you're historical memory is so very blinkered.

Ignoring bad grammar and unexplained assertions that seem to contradict the content of the post, the fact that Petraeus said more or less what the bloggers were speculating he would say in more or less the exact way would seem to suggest that MY was on to something.

Abandon the blogosphere!

The campaign that Matt participated in to preemptively attack and undermine the credibility of an active duty military officer was unprecedented.

You are so right! Why, we would've won for sure in Viet Nam if it hadn't been for Sy Hersh and his undermining of Lt. Calley's credibility!

Oh, puhleeze. Far reaching consequences? From the AD? Who is it that sent the general in there to lie with statistics? It wasn't Matt, and it wasn't MoveOn. It was our old buddy GW.

The polls are giving a clear picture of the sense of the nation that it is ALL lies and spin, with little truth and less logic. Except, of course, for GW to leave office with the US still stuck in Iraq. That logic is working perfectly. The fact that it works against our interests (and incidentally, against the interests of the entire world) is of little importance to GW et al.

The only people who bought any part of that charade are the people who still believe Bush about anything.

And there are vanishingly few of those kinds of PT Barnum fools made.

Which is a way good thing.

Jake

Thank god we have Fred and friends to protect us from Yglesias's politicization of Petraeus. Petraeus is of course a holy innocent, who walked into his current post and into the congressional hearings unaware that politics even might become involved in debating this war. The fact that Petraeus reads from Dubya's script and that his numbers don't add up only proves his independence.

What color is the sky on your planet, anyway?

"Plantation Owner Republicans"? Democrats were the party of plantation owners, peckerhead. That they were simultaneously the party of most Northern blacks after the New Deal is a tribute to FDR's brilliant combination of welfare and tolerance of bigotry to build an intergenerational political majority.

Juan,

By "Plantation Owner Republicans" I meant the desire of Republican leaders to only speak with Americans they "own" in very controlled settings these days.

I think the wingnuts are just solidifying the customer base for their future lame, ghost-written books now.

Bush might as well have given them all coupons for his first epic while they were there.

Bush has been doing the "it's one thing to attack me" schtick for oh, about 7 years now. The thing about it is that I'm sure he believes every word of it. What was it that Jon Stewart said the other day while he was interviewing Robert Draper? -- something about Bush being very proud of the person he believes himself to be when he's really the opposite?

Let's all thank Juan for today's episode of "Twisting History: Ignorant, or Lying?"

How much concentrated stupidity is there in K-Lo quoting Bush, anyway? It's like the worst band you've ever seen coming back onstage to cover an REO Speedwagon song for an encore.

So, Juan, does that make the Republicans, who currently command the overwhelming majority of southern white votes, a brilliant combination of tolerance of bigotry and... uh... killing brown people?

I appreciate that the press has spent the week discussing how Bush and Rudy are outraged by the ad, debating on whethe democrats would "condemn" it, and utterly ignoring that Bush first of all announced he was continuing his policies regardless of Petraeus's testimony and secondly that while not a betrayal or an outright lie, there was a lot of "spin" in Petraeus's report. No, better to attack the left-wing interest group who are only supported by a clear majority of the people.

I would pay solid cash money to watch actual G.I.'s testify to Congress on the war, on the subject of the "men and women in uniform." Bush might like that less.

"conservative journalist" is an oxymoron.

I appreciate that the press has spent the week discussing how Bush and Rudy are outraged by the ad, debating on whethe democrats would "condemn" it, and utterly ignoring that Bush first of all announced he was continuing his policies regardless of Petraeus's testimony and secondly that while not a betrayal or an outright lie, there was a lot of "spin" in Petraeus's report. No, better to attack the left-wing interest group who are only supported by a clear majority of the people.

I would pay solid cash money to watch actual G.I.'s testify to Congress on the war, on the subject of the "men and women in uniform." Bush might like that less.

"conservative journalist" is an oxymoron.

I am surprised at the lack of balance in the readership of this blog. Printed Atlantic letters are much classier and well thought out.

Why aren't any of you concerned about the clear zealotry of Moveon.org. They show an interest in seeing the mission in Iraq fail. Hardly in the interests of anyone I would want to associate with.

As for the politization of the officer corps, please constrain your worries. General Officers are and will continue to be primarily political animals. Do you think Eisenhower was given 5 stars based on his tactical genius? Warfare at the strategic level is inherently political. Isn't this obvious.

Finally to the implication that Petraeus is just Bush's puppet. This reeks of sheer partisanship. He made it clear at the start of his letter that this was his opinion, one he knew would be politically charged. He needed a significant amount of moral courage just to take this job. No matter how well/poorly he performs, how honest/dishonest he is, how he answers questions he is destined for intense criticism.

This whole section of said criticism reeks of those TR was disabusing in his famous "arena" quotation. Another association I would reconsider.

Matthew Yglesias wrote,

"Meanwhile, Bush's disingenuousness in saying 'It is one thing to attack me — which is fine' is just staggering. For years, the man took the view that criticism of his policies amount to criticism of the idea of freedom..."

Does anyone else see this as an Yglesias bait-and-switch?

Does he always get away with such sloppy arguments here?

The campaign that Matt participated in to preemptively attack and undermine the credibility of an active duty military officer was unprecedented. It will have far-reaching consequences for our elected government and our military, none of them good.

Good God. I hope you don't honestly believe this horseshit.

I understand why conservatives are attacking the Move-On ad, but I really can't comprehend the hand-wringing by liberals. Can you imagine a single conservative criticizing an ad saying that a Democrat is "betraying us"? I can't. Besides, it seems that the ad got the message across.

Patience, people, patience!

One day, Petraeus will leave the military, and when that day comes, we will be free to piss all over his so-called service to his country and pick through every detail of his military career looking for trash. And our friends on the right won't utter a peep, because they know that trashing a veteran's military service when you don't agree with their politics, by whatever means necessary, isn't just fair play; it's positively de rigueur.

Can you imagine a single conservative criticizing an ad saying that a Democrat is "betraying us"?

That's the same exact argument right wingers make when sane Americans criticize their government for torturing people. Here's the way it is: good guys don't lower themselves to the moral standards of the bad guys. That's what makes them good guys.

Keith, moveon.org wants the US out of Iraq. The rationale for this position is that the mission has not suceeded and cannot suceed. Failure is a given. You may believe that remaining in Iraq will lead to success and so from your perspective, if moveon.org gets their way, we will fail. But that is different from saying that moveon.org wants us to fail. Of course, anyone even willing to bring this up at this point is unlikely to appreciate the distinction here.

Led, can you tell me what the lowered "moral standard" was here? I knew someone was going to say that "we don't want to be like them." Of course we don't, but that doesn't mean we have to apologize for saying something that probably most of the people who read this blog agree with. Petraeus has not been straight with the American people. That is a "betrayal" however you look at it.

MAP distilled:

"Petraeus says things with which we disagree, therefore he is a traitor. Since we truly believe this, saying it is not a smear"

Two questions for mpowell:

- If MoveOn didn't want US military efforts in Iraq to fail, why did MoveOn make its attack on Petraeus both personal and BEFORE he testified?

- If MoveOn didn't want US military efforts in Iraq to fail, why did MoveOn falsely claim in its ad that no independent reports showed the surge strategy working?

I don't remember anyone calling him a traitor. I certainly don't think he's a traitor and I don't think he has to be a traitor to betray his duty to us. I think he really believes in what he is doing or at least has himself convinced he is doing the right thing. Spinning the facts can be a betrayal without someone being a traitor. I don't think Petraeus wants to hurt the U.S., but we need him to tell us the truth so that our represenatives can make wise decisions about what's going on in Iraq.

But he should have found a civilian, or a bipartisan group

If only they could form some kind of bipartisan Group to Study the current situation in Iraq... they could release a report about what we should do.

Matt - The ad was, very clearly, on attack on General Petraeus and there's just no possible way a reasonable person could construe it as some kind of generalized slander against the troops.

Matt still has a problem understanding chian-of-command. The "betrayal" of the commander is by proxy the "betrayal" of the troops who must have been complicit in all the "lies" about making progress that Petraeus got from the field and reported on.

When you impugne the field commander's integrity - you are impugning his subordinates integrity. When you question battlefield effectiveness, strategy, ability to integrate military with political and communications objectives - that is valid criticism.

When you call the commander as committing treason by his reporting, it is treason of all those reporting down the line. In other wars, other arenas, when you accuse a General Grant or Sherman or Halsey or LeMay of committing war crimes, you accuse all those following their orders as war criminals.
That is how the military works. It is a collective exercise of people all doing the same thing as the command wants..

Sometimes the accusations are correct. Hidekei Tojo and his troops were war criminals. General Modl's hanging for the abysmal treatment he gave Russian POWs was the for the actions of many of his men as well as himself.

Yes, sometimes calling a general a traitor or a war criminal is correct.
But politically driven Moveon.org had no such evidence when they went smearing Petraeus and all his men (and a few women) warfighters.

The public handed Moveon it's head, as was proper.

I prefer the "Rock me" mash up.

DavePetraeus DavePetraeus, Petraeus
DavePetraeus DavePetraeus, Petraeus
DavePetraeus, oh oh oh, Petraeus

Er war Superstar
Er war populär
Er war so exaltiert
Because er hatte Flair
Er war ein Virtuose
War ein Rockidol
Und alles rief:
Come on and rock me DavePetraeus

NEWSLFASH!!

Chris Ford is still a liar

Anyone who says anything which is or could be interpreted as an insult to a senior officer is doing exactly the same as taking every enlisted U.S. soldier, raping his wife, cutting off the heads of his children, and dancing on the graves of every single one of his relatives.

I don't know why Matt can't understand this.

Yes, Chris Ford is a liar, but it is important to focus on the positive here. Chris Ford hasn't polluted this thread with his usual racist and antisemitic rants. Yet.

I'm amazed that anyone alive is staggered by anything that comes out of President Bush's mouth at this point. He can be a douchebag, a bullshitter, or a douchebag bullshitter. I know that doesn't allow for much commentary but that's how it's been all of Bush's life.

Bush - cradle to today

small child - douchebag
older child - bullshitter
Yale - douchebag bullshitter
TX National Guard - douchebag
AL National Guard - bullshitter
AWOL - douchebag bullshitter
MBA - douchebag
oil days - bullshitter
Owner Texas Rangers - bullshitter
Governor - bullshitter
candidate for President - bullshitter
President - douchebag bullshitter
NCLB - bullshitter
stem cell research - douchebag
'uniter, not divider' - douchebag bullshitter
'Bin Laden, Wanted Dead or Alive' - bullshitter
Axis of Evil - douchebag bullshitter
WMD - bullshitter
Freedom Agenda - douchebag
'As they stand up, we'll stand down' - bullshitter
'Not that interested' in Bin Laden - douchebag
'Appointing strict Constitutionalists' - bullshitter
trashing the 4th Amendment - douchebag
Appointing Roberts - bullshitter
Appointing Alito - douchebag
Appointing Alberto Gonzales - douchebag bullshiter
doing nothing for 5 days after Katrina - douchebag
'We'll rebuild better than ever' - bullshitter
'the Surge' - douchebag
hissy fit over Petraeus/MoveOn ad - douchebag bullshitter


...and on and on. You get the idea. Don't overthink Bush. He had a strong run of being an excellent bullshitter but it was a fluke and the he reverted to the douchebag mean.

that was nothing compared to the baffling stupidity displayed by Bush in saying this and Lopez in just passing the remark on without comment. The ad was, very clearly, on attack on General Petraeus and there's just no possible way a reasonable person could construe it as some kind of generalized slander against the troops.

FYI,

Sean Hannity, Mark Levin (and probably other radio gasbags) have been pushing this meme for over a week now.

Good point Matt.

Chuck Hegel said the same things about Petraeus than the ad did. Admiral Fallon, of course, called Petraeus "an ass-kissing little chickenshit".

That there's a problem with MoveOn's ad is just testament to how corrupt the fargging MSM media is.

Regarding the anonymously sourced story that Admiral Fallon insulted Petraeus, a named, on-the-record CENTCOM representative said the following:

"The story is inaccurate. Admiral Fallon and General Petraeus have an outstanding relationship."

LCDR Scott Miller
CENTCOM Public Affairs

I assume most on this site will find the anonymous source reliable and LCDR Miller a liar.

I assume most on this site will find the anonymous source reliable and LCDR Miller a liar.

We prefer spinner to liar, but yes.


Thank you! You stated the obvious but obviously the MSM can't see such things.


Comments closed October 03, 2007.

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