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Looting Then And Now

08 Sep 2007 05:53 pm

I was interested to see Charles Krauthammer concede today that important "strategic errors" were made in Iraq, "most important, eschewing a heavy footprint, not forcibly suppressing the early looting and letting Moqtada al-Sadr escape with his life in August 2004." Previous to this column, Krauthammer had only mentioned the looting once, in is June 13, 2003 "Hoaxes, Hype and Humiliation". The only point he made in the column was to argue that the story of the looting of Iraq's national museum had been initially overstated. Or, as he put it in his typically measured manner, "You'd have to go back centuries, say, to the Mongol invasion of Baghdad in 1258, to find mendacity on this scale." He referred also to the "narcissism" and "sheer snobbery" of people like Frank Rich who were concerned about the looting.

He then noted that after the stories of widespread looting in Iraq had been debunked (this would be the same looting he now says was a key strategic error) "The left simply moved on to another change of subject: the 'hyping' of the weapons of mass destruction." Ha, ha, silly left.

As for Sadr, back in April 2004 at the height of fighting between the US military and the Mahdi Army, Krauathammer was confident. Back in his April 16, 2004 column "This Is Hardly Vietnam" he observed merely that "the Shiite establishment has been negotiating on our behalf with the Sadr rebels." In his May 14, 2004 column "The Abu Ghraib Panic", Krauthammer said that "The Sadr insurgency appears to be waning." Sadr, whose survival in 2004 Krauthammer now sees as the key turning point in the war, then goes unmentioned in his columns for almost two years.

And such is the war in Iraq as seen through neocon lenses. Mistakes are always in the past. The current policy is always working. When the mistakes are being made, those who point out the mistakes are tarred as near-treasonous. Then, after another year or two of pointless, futile bloodshed, it's conceded that mistakes were made in the past. But now we're right on track. And the liberals, once again, just don't get it.

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Comments (38)

Back when Bush Sr. was building up to Gulf War 1, Krapphammer was bragging about how we had done gone and builded up the biggest gol' darn coalition that any coalition-wranglers what ever had wrangled a coalition.

Not too long after the war, he then scoffed at the idea that there had ever been a real coalition -- it was a "fig leaf", he called it -- and what now galled him about it was how the U.S. should have bestrode the world as such a colossus that how dare it think it should grasp at fig leaves instead of proudly embracing its own imperial majesty.

Many of the older neo-cons and media whore hacks who sold us the Iraq war grew up in a time when things like Google, Lexis-Nexus, VCRs and DVRs didn't exist at the fingertips of the unwashed uneducated masses like ourselves. Thus, they think they can say the most outlandish things and contradict what they wrote or said just a few years ago without being called on it....Boy, have times changed....

Not too long after the war, he then scoffed at the idea that there had ever been a real coalition -- it was a "fig leaf", he called it -- and what now galled him about it was how the U.S. should have bestrode the world as such a colossus that how dare it think it should grasp at fig leaves instead of proudly embracing its own imperial majesty
"Imperial Majesty" and here all these years I had been calling it my "Special Purpose"

Times have changed, Hank -- but these guys are still hard at work, lying their asses off on the very serious newspaper editorial pages.

I was interested to see Charles Krauthammer

When did he stop being "America's Most Evil Columnist" or whatever it was? You slept with him, didn't you?

Great post.

I don't think I can take it anymore. Who's going to fire these idiots? Why haven't conservatives risen up against their moronic pundits?

OT but not by much.

The following is a link to a blog indicating that a massive attack on Iran is imminent.

http://www.bartcop.com/iran-invade-mark-f.htm

And such is the war in Iraq as seen through neocon lenses. Mistakes are always in the past. The current policy is always working.

As the heroic vanguard of international democracy in the struggle againt Islamofascism (or whatever) the neocon party must be right. Its political and military strategies are based on a scientific reading of the laws of history, and are thus incapable of error.

If these strategies have temporarily failed to achieve the desired goals in Iraq, it is because of the spies and wreckers within (i.e. liberals, Democrats, moderate Republicans, Israel haters, etc. etc.)

The task of the Washington Post op-ed page (a.k.a The Sword and Shield of the Party) is to struggle against these foul traitors by ensuring party cadres have been properly indoctrinated by the Central Committee (a.k.a. The American Enterprise Institute) and thus won't be duped by the left and right deviationists of the so-called "reality based community."

So you can see that Comrade Krauthammer is simply doing his duty as a good communist, er, I mean, an American patiot.

but *who* ever gonna call krauthammer on his shit?
anyone who tries, he's just gonna dismiss as "silly left"...if he ever deigns to pay them *that* much attention.

"This is Hardly Vietnam" reminded me of--

Q: What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq?
A: Bush knew how to get out of Vietnam.

Chris asks in his 7:31 PM post: "Why haven't conservatives risen up against their moronic pundits?"

Because their moronic pundits tell them the lies that the cons want--or need--to hear. Otherwise, their pinheads would explode from all of the reality.

What is the next step here? How do we get the "fire Charles Krauthammer" movement going, and get the point across that it's about his _terminal dishonesty_, not about disagreeing with his opinions?

Elvis:
At least I am not as dishonest as Michael Moore.

SLC,
that post was taken down. I don't have a Bartcop account, so I can't comment there. But the diarist who wrote that on DKos did not stand behind it. After it was ridiculed by Josh Trevino, the poster apologized for causing any harm to the site and took it down.

Elvis,

Come on, if Joe Morgan hasn't been fired by ESPN, ain't no way Krauthammer is getting dropped.

Joe Morgan is wrong and unintelligent, but he doesn't lie all the time, or hurt America and embolden al Qaeda like Charles Krauthammer does. Plus, Joe at least comes across as pleasant on the air, and can offer anecdotes and insights from his time as a player, some of which actually happened.

SLC as usual is a day late and a dollar short.

That's old news. And personally I suspect that it isn't a fake, despite criticisms of it.

The recent test run of Israel into Syria is a clear signal that Israel intends to attack Syria and Hizballah in Lebanon in the near future.

It's even possible that the run was INTENDED for Syria to shoot down those planes and start the war. If so, it failed.

This is the exact same strategy that Israel used last year - letting some of their soldiers get captured on the Lebanese border by letting them out of overwatch by their command, knowing full well that Hizballah intended to capture Israeli soldiers as hostage bargaining points for the release of Lebanese prisoners. They then launched an attack on Lebanon which they subsequently were forced to admit was pre-planned.

And it's a near certainty that this new attack will be coordinated with the US attack on Iran.

Reports also indicate that Israel is faking a reduction of force on the Golan Heights in order to fool Syria into lowering its guard.

Meanwhile DebkaFile - a known Israeli shill - is putting out crap about how the test run by Israeli jets "proves" that the Russian air defense systems recently installed by Syria cannot protect Syria from the IAF. DebkaFile provides no evidence whatever either that the Russian systems were in use at the point of entry, or that the Russian systems were in fact used to try to down the Israeli jets, or that the Syrians are stupid enough not to recognize a "pen test" which they see one and start a war over it.

Excellent post, Matt. This is exactly the kind of thing you should be doing: backing up your statements with real research, valuable research on the baleful Dr. K in this case.

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that "chaos is the plan," on the basis of cui bono....

such is the war in Iraq as seen through neocon lenses

Uh, and this is new because...?

This is from a letter I wrote to a friend who wanted some information about human rights abuses committed by the Nicaraguan contras. The date of the letter is August 25, 1988.

I only listed ones that date from 1985 on; earlier ones inevitably get brushed aside with "oh, things have all changed since then." Of course, these same people were in 1984 angrily denying the charges they now airily acknowledge, but since consistency requires a certain minimal level of moral standards, that's no problem for them.
At least they are consistent in their inconsistency.

Good post.

"Why haven't conservatives risen up against their moronic pundits"

"You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time..."

The conservatives are the some of the people that you can fool all of the time.

Mistakes are always in the past. The current policy is always working. When the mistakes are being made, those who point out the mistakes are tarred as near-treasonous. Then, after another year or two of pointless, futile bloodshed, it's conceded that mistakes were made in the past. But now we're right on track. And the liberals, once again, just don't get it.

Bravo, well said.

The whole laissez-faire attitude to war-making is easily the most annoying and perhaps the most scandalous thing about this administration and its defenders.

If you support a war, then you must be punctilious about its prosecution. Saying "mistakes are made in wars" consistently, over and over again, is the best signal that you really don't care about Iraq, let alone the United States. Rather, you care about whichever people are making all these blunders, and making sure they stay in power.

Any Iraq War boosters who failed to identify one mistake, one fault, one strategic error or misread WHILE IT WAS TAKING PLACE and WHILE SOMETHING COULD HAVE BEEN DONE ought to be thrown into some deep, dark dungeon of discredited pundits and kept there forever.

Chris @ 7:31PM,

Today's conservatives are not at all like your Father's and Grand-father's conservatives!

Today's Conservative is all over the map! the Old Goldwater/Taft libertarian/traditional con is a rare bird nowadays. Authoritarian, top/down, "when we want your opinion we will give it to you" cons are the leaders now. The rank and file are drones, or as Solzhenitsyn would have said, "the Dill Tomatovitches, the Sidor Polykarpovitches; always complaining and good for nothing."

Why do you think there has been no con revolt against Bush except in libertarian and traditional circles? there are only so many Ron Paul's and Paul Craig Roberts' and John Dean's to go around today. see this diary by FWIW @ Daily Kos, it will help a lot.

Setting the standard

The WaPo keeps Krauthammer around because he's such an idiot that he makes Ignatius look like a sage in comparison. No matter how wrong Ignatius has been about the war, having folks like Krauthammer around to define the overtly crazed hawkish edge of the WaPo-defined conventional wisdom, validates the dovish edge, even if it is itself far to the hawkish edge of realistic thinking.

Amy,
Josh Trevino is a right wing hack. I would look at anything he says with that in mind.

"Why haven't conservatives risen up against their moronic pundits?"

Because conservatives are congenital morons.

We hear so much today about 'real conservatives this' or 'real conservatives that.' The truth is conservatives of the past were also 'missing something.'

A commenter above mentioned Robert Taft as an example of the "traditional" conservative of the past.

Well, I'm old enough to remember Robert Alphonse Taft and I have to say that he had a wide streak of just plain stupid in him just like all the rest.

The genesis of the modern Conservative Movement is found in that old batch of so called "traditional" conservatives that liberals get all weak kneed about these days.

I can't forget that it was Taft who egged on that disgusting old drunk Joseph McCarthy and that it was Taft and others of his ilk who called Democrats traitors. It was the Taft crowd that wanted to roll-back eastern Europe and warped our foreign policies for decades to come.

And the Goldwater worship. Don't get me started. Sometime, just for the hell of it, read AuH2O's entire acceptance speech at the '64 Republican convention. His citation's of history are way off the mark and the predecessor to today's general rejection of the responsibilities of citizenship. Then, if you have a taste for quaint stupidity, read a few of his policy positions.

Don't glorify these revolting old scum. They are the ideological parents of today's 'Conservative Movement.'

The only difference between them and these is that they didn't have the same level of power.

Chalk up another one for the dirty fucking hippies.

Who needs looting? Just say you're "fighting Al Qaeda"!

Read this report:

US bribe insurgents to fight Al-Qaeda
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2413200.ece

Money quote:

The Sunday Times has witnessed at first hand the enormous sums of cash changing hands. One sheikh in a town south of Baghdad was given $38,000 (£19,000) and promised a further $189,000 over three months to drive Al-Qaeda fighters from a nearby camp.

Money talks.

And Republicans listen. As do many other people around the world, including Arabs.

We learned recently that in Anbar Province in Iraq, after a liberal dose of "cash incentives" to Sunni tribal elders there, that these Sunni tribes began cooperating with U.S. forces against the al Qaeda in Iraq foreign fighters.

This is exactly the method used in Afghanistan following the 9/11 attacks. U.S. Special Forces, Army Rangers and CIA field operatives entered Afghanistan with suitcases filled with money which they used to literally buy the allegiance of Afghani warlords, getting them to switch sides, and start going after the Taliban and al-Qaeda alongside U.S. forces. Money talks.

Why this "money talks" method wasn't used at the onset of Bush starting the war in Iraq in March 2003 is anyone's quess?

Instead of costing hundreds of billions of dollars (and countless lives), several tens of billions of dollars would have helped assure the allegiance of many Iraqis to whatever government BushCo tried to set-up in post-Saddam Iraq and provided some semblance of security for Iraqi citizens. Giving "return to duty" bonuses to Iraqi members of the military and police, as well as increasing their pay, would have bought their allegiance. Then, Shia Iraqi citizens, preferably the more secular type, could have been recruited into the new Iraqi military and police forces.

Of course, we all know the approach BushCo chose, an approach that has unleashed unimaginable horror inside Iraq, with BushCo and the generals only recently (post-Rumsfeld) trying to undo some of the damage done. Far too little. Far too late.

As boilerman10 noted above, this is just a normal authoritarian modus operandi: 'mistakes were made in the past, now toe the Party line and shut up'.

Thanks, Matt. The Post has a stable of decrepit horses that ought to have put out to pasture long ago: Novak and CK must have some hold over the Post?? Sorry to say, old Ignatius, too, has gone off the Iraq reservation. I would like to have a job where I get to be wrong each and every time.

Re Amy

I first found out about the post from Mike the Mad Biologists' blog. Some of the article is still up there in the unlikely event anybody other then Mr. Hack is interested.

http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2007/09/now_im_starting_to_get_really.php#more

The consensus of the comments on Mr. Mikes' blog is that the article is a hoax. Tykpical is the following comment by somebody named lea

A rather silly hoax imo.
Naval personnel have more brains than this to spill the beans on such a sensitive subject. A carrier is like a floating city yes, meaning it's hard to recognize absolutely everything that's going on. But there are plenty of dedicated personnel that would inform a superior officer in a heartbeat so as not to compromise the mission.

This sort of behavior would land this person in the Brig for eternity. A risk I dare say even the dumbest of Navy personnel would not take.
LSO's are junior officers too, they're not included in the main talking channels.

Re Richard Steven Hack

The overflight was probably for the purpose of testing the effectiveness of IDF radar jamming equipment on the latest Russian antiaircraft system. It probably wouldn't be of much value to the US military as any attack on Iran will be initiated with stealth bombers; the Israeli aircraft are conventional F14s' which are not stealth enabled.

This is Kristol's game too. I think that to go with the Green Lantern theory of foreign policy we also need the's Red Queen theory of neocon pundits-- wrong yesterday and wrong tomorrow but never wrong today.

M.Y. hits another homerun!

And such is the war in Iraq as seen through neocon lenses. Mistakes are always in the past. The current policy is always working. When the mistakes are being made, those who point out the mistakes are tarred as near-treasonous. Then, after another year or two of pointless, futile bloodshed, it's conceded that mistakes were made in the past. But now we're right on track. And the liberals, once again, just don't get it.

Excellent point.

"The overflight was probably for the purpose of testing the effectiveness of IDF radar jamming equipment on the latest Russian antiaircraft system. It probably wouldn't be of much value to the US military as any attack on Iran will be initiated with stealth bombers; the Israeli aircraft are conventional F14s' which are not stealth enabled."

Did I say otherwise?

Still a day late and a dollar short.

Re: comments of Richard Hack:
Your suggestion that Israel put its soldiers and airmen into harms way in the hope of their capture or killing so as to provoke a war is so out of keeping with prevailing Israeli military doctrine that I can only conlude that you have fallen to spouting the most ridiculous conspiracy theories. You do a disservice to true opponents of American Militarism and Neoconservatism by writing such speculative theories. It is, incidentally, highly offensivee to suggest that the Israeli response to the unprovoked kidnapping of its soldiers, no matter how poorly handled, was anything other than an act of justified outrage ata terrorist group that is bent not only on the death of innocent people, but the violent overthrow of the government of it's host country.


Comments closed September 22, 2007.

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