Packing It In

As part of my outrageous out-of-touchness with real America, until a meal consumed after trap shooting yesterday, I'd never been to an Olive Garden. Generally speaking, my exposure to the realm of table-service chain restaurants has been pretty limited, and my early exposures were primarily to Applebee's and Chili's (which, somewhat oddly, has a branch right near Harvard Square) and so those are the places I've always sought out in the rare instances when looking for such a thing. Be that as it may, now I've been there, and I have to say that the $8.95 never-ending pasta bowl really does explain a lot about America's obesity problem.

At the same time, there really is something incredibly impressive about the idea of an economy that's efficient enough to provide such a cornucopia of food in exchange for such a trivial portion of the average person's income. Still, a bit more progress like this and none of us are going to have any arteries left.

Comments

Matt: "At the same time, there really is something incredibly impressive about the idea of an economy that's efficient enough to provide such a cornucopia of food in exchange for such a trivial portion of the average person's income."

Don't tell Soullite, he'll start jihad vs. chain restaurants.

Posted by Andruw | September 23, 2007 2:55 AM

"At the same time, there really is something incredibly impressive about the idea of an economy that's efficient enough to provide such a cornucopia of food in exchange for such a trivial portion of the average person's income."

It would be all the more impressive if the food at Olive Gardan was edible...

Posted by Petey | September 23, 2007 3:00 AM

Two words:
Crop subsidies.

Posted by Anthony Damiani | September 23, 2007 3:03 AM

Oh come on Petey, even a prison cafeteria couldn't screw up spaghetti and meatballs, so Olive Garden is as good as place as any to order that (with only a very small risk of being shanked).

Their salad and bread sticks are pretty good too.

Posted by beowulf | September 23, 2007 3:05 AM

Had.

The chilis is there no longer, ya dinosaur.

Posted by Ed Su | September 23, 2007 4:03 AM

The salad and bread sticks (with the marinara dipping sauce) are pretty good. I always admired the chutzpah of the Olive Garden HQ putting their restaurants in North Jersey, home of plenty of real Italian restaurants. The faux-wooden plastic basket for the bread sticks is a nice touch.

Posted by Fred | September 23, 2007 4:11 AM

Uh, what do you think their cost was for all the spaghetti you consumed? And how much was your beverage? And how much was their cost for your beverage?

Posted by feh | September 23, 2007 5:46 AM

Eating out in the USA is really cheap. Even if you don't go to the Olive Garden. I mean, you almost don't save money by cooking your own food.

You know a huge reason why this is? (Matt, I'm sure you know this already - it's a rhetorical question.) It's because cheap immigrant labor produces the food - vegetable picking, slaughterhouse work, chicken processing, and so on - and cheap immigrant labor staffs the kitchens, at the back of the house where the customers don't see. Even in the average Thai restaurant, it's not like all the kitchen staff are Thai. I expect that Spanish and in some areas Chinese are the lingua franca of kitchen work. I think Anthony Bourdain has written about this.

I always wonder if anti-immigrant people realize they can't eat without hypocrisy.

Posted by Ben | September 23, 2007 6:03 AM

"Eating out in the USA is really cheap. Even if you don't go to the Olive Garden. I mean, you almost don't save money by cooking your own food."

What planet do you live on?

I can make a huge plate of pasta at home using good ingredients and a non-stupid recipe for maybe $6 per plate.

The proper comparison to that isn't the Olive Garden, since my pasta is yummy and the Olive Garden's is basically inedible. The comparison is a yummy Italian restaurant.

Add in a cheap wine and salad, and I'm looking at $10 - $12 per plate at home. Go out for a comparable dinner at a halfway decent Italian restaurant, and I'm looking at $35 - $50 per plate.

If you enjoy your meals, eating out is terrifically expensive compared to making similar dishes at home. There are definitely some exceptions to this rule, but they are rather limited in scope.

Posted by Petey | September 23, 2007 7:25 AM

Since you're near Harvard Square, try this UK chain called Wagamama. It's one of only two branches that they've open in the US. It's not a bottomless bowl like the Olive Garden (which I avoid). But it's all udon and ramen and they do the most fascinating things with both! I only went once during a trip to London last year and it was pretty cheap considering the exchange rate is so bad for the dollar, and very filling and tasty too.

Posted by John | September 23, 2007 7:48 AM

$12 per plate at home? That's ridiculous. $6 per plate for pasta? Aren't you proving the case that it's cheaper to eat out?

Posted by John | September 23, 2007 7:49 AM

a bit more progress like this and none of us are going to have any arteries left.

The Olive Garden seems an odd trigger for that observation--it's probably got the healthiestmenu of any American chain eatery. (Not that that's saying much.)

Posted by James Gary | September 23, 2007 7:55 AM

"Generally speaking, my exposure to the realm of table-service chain restaurants has been pretty limited, and my early exposures were primarily to Applebee's and Chili's"

You're lucky.

Posted by Ed | September 23, 2007 8:01 AM

I had always turned up my nose at the thought, but ended up in an Olive Garden recently in Philadelpia. Was most impressed by how good the food was, the generosity of the portions, and quality of the service. You have to make sure that you do not attempt to eat another main meal on such days.

Posted by bob h | September 23, 2007 8:13 AM

Wow, some of you are truly out of touch. For 1, most americans do not drink wine at dinner. Ever. They view it as a bad habit that Europeans have. If they were to serve their child wine at diner, even if that child were in their late teens, they would likely be arrested for child endangerment.

Most americans will choose Americanized Italian food over real Italian food. That's not shocking, as Americanized food is altered to meet American tastes. Anyone who has been to Italy can attest to the fact that their food is a big disappointment to most Americans.

Virtually all Americans have eaten not only at olive garden, but at Denny's, Chili's, TGIF's, Friendly's and Red Lobster. They, in fact, consider this fine dining. Despite what many of you apparently believe, this does not make them inferior. Believing it does is snobbery.

Seriously, lower your damned noses.

Posted by Soullite | September 23, 2007 9:06 AM

There is/was also a TGI Friday's, Pizzeria Uno, and Bertucci's in harvard square. Never tried any of those?

And if you've never been to an Outback, I highly recommend trying it (applebee's too, though that's more of a guilty pleasure).

Posted by right | September 23, 2007 9:07 AM

"$12 per plate at home? That's ridiculous. $6 per plate for pasta? Aren't you proving the case that it's cheaper to eat out?"

No, he's proving that he's a lousy comparison shopper; You ought to be able to make mind blowingly good spaghetti sauce for half that, from scratch. If you don't count the labor, of course; We're talking a couple hours to do it right.

In the words of my mom, "It's not done until the stirring spoon stands up on it's own in the pot!"

**********

BTW, try using fresh thai basil in your sauce, it's really something!

Posted by Brett Bellmore | September 23, 2007 9:43 AM

This is part of a larger problem, I think. For millennia, it was incredibly hard to get the necessary sustenance to survive. Food gathering for most animals is a never ending job. In an very short amount of time, though, we've developed extremely sophisticated ways to deliver calories into our systems. It's happened much faster than evolution can adjust to, though, and our genetics are still fit for a deprivation model. Consequently, we're all fucking fat.

Posted by Freddie | September 23, 2007 9:45 AM

You haven't experienced gluttonous America until you've been to a Golden Corral. Olive Garden is a macrobiotic cleansing diet in comparison.

Posted by M. Duss | September 23, 2007 9:47 AM

Anyone who has been to Italy can attest to the fact that their food is a big disappointment to most Americans.

Excuse my playing into a stereotype for a second, but if that's the case, Americans are crazy and stupid. Italian Italian food is out of this world phenomenal. American Italian food is never offensively bad, but unless you're getting a house specialty of some sort, it's generally very ordinary.

As to the rest of the supposed snobbery, you're reading too much into this by half. First, while I don't doubt that many Americans never drink wine with dinner, I think it's a preposterous assertion to say they call it a "bad habit," unless they don't drink for religious reasons. Second, it never ceases to amaze me the way we treat price- and reputation-based dining differently from other similar price- and reputation-base distinctions. If wealthier or otherwise "elite" individuals chose not to drive compact cars, even high-quality ones, in favor of driving mid-sized luxury cars, we wouldn't call that snobbery. We'd recognize it as a product of means. The kind of snobbery you're implying is the exact kind that makes "rich-politician-who-cares-about-poor-people" into a synonym for "hypocrite." I.e., it's a fallacy.

Moreover, part of the distinction can be explained by availability, since it's not like the chain restauranteurs simply toss one in wherever. They study demographics and figure out the places they're likely to do best. That's where they put their restaurants. I've eaten at all the restaurants Soullite and right name (except Friendly's, which I think is a regional thing), but I honestly couldn't tell you where any of them are in New York (except the Friday's in Times Square), D.C. (except a few near the Verizon Center), or Chicago (except Chili's and the original Uno). Availability matters, and when you live next to a bunch of little neighborhood places, including the cheap ones, why not eat there? It's simply a difference in urban vs. suburban living. C'est la vie.

By comparison, when I'm in Kansas City visiting my parents, a city that feels like a suburb even in the city, I know where to find all of them and have no problem eating at some of them. Some, not all, because I have decided not to accept all restaurants of a particular "quality level" as being of universally equal desirability. Is that snobbery? I also prefer Wendy's to Burger King. More snobbery?

We had a guy at my old job who went to a Cracker Barrel once, took one bite of his pancakes, and literally pushed them across the table and didn't touch another bite of food or say a word to anyone for the rest of the meal. He won't eat ribs because he refuses to eat food that gets his hands dirty. That is snobbery. Not all food preference or experience distinctions are the same.

Posted by jhupp | September 23, 2007 9:56 AM

You ought to be able to make mind blowingly good spaghetti sauce for half that, from scratch. If you don't count the labor, of course; We're talking a couple hours to do it right.

But that's exactly the point, right? You do need to count the labor, because labor is worth a lot. Now it sounds like you, like me, enjoy cooking a good meal, so the time spent preparing the food is part of your leisure. But lots of people don't have that hobby, and for them, the cost of the plate is three bucks of ingredients and two hours of their time. That's not a cheap dinner.

To keep this thread on-topic, here's Marcella Hazan's trip to Olive Garden.

Posted by JSE | September 23, 2007 10:04 AM

Absolutely, you can make, as I do, three weeks worth of spaghetti sauce (consumed three nights a week) from three 13oz cans of diced tomatoes, about a pound of ground beef, a spoonful of olive oil, some onion and a handful of crushed basil. At Trader Joes, that'll run to about $13. Add another 3 bucks for 4 pounds of spaghetti (69 cents per) and you'll find yourself consuming a satisfying amount of pasta for less than two dollars an evening.

So it's no contest.

Posted by Mark | September 23, 2007 10:09 AM

If you are worried about obesity after eating at Olive Garden, I suggest eating at Old Country Buffet (in most states), Ryan's bugget, Golden Corral, Furr's family dining (in the southwest and all you can eat chicken fried steak and millionaire pie), Breakfast bar at Shoney's, and the all you can eat buffet at some pizza huts generally in the south and west.

There is probably a follow up to "Super Size Me" to make a movie about all you can eat places.

Posted by superdestroyer | September 23, 2007 10:40 AM

"Virtually all Americans have eaten not only at olive garden, but at Denny's, Chili's, TGIF's, Friendly's and Red Lobster. They, in fact, consider this fine dining."

I would certainly like to see some evidence that _anyone_ considers any of these restaurants except Red Lobster "fine dining."

It is, however, sadly true that many people in the lower midwest and south, at least, consider Red Lobster a "nice" restaurant, probably because it's vastly more expensive than the food quality warrants.

Posted by Arr-squared | September 23, 2007 10:41 AM

"Virtually all Americans have eaten not only at olive garden, but at Denny's, Chili's, TGIF's, Friendly's and Red Lobster. They, in fact, consider this fine dining."

Is this a joke? I am missing the irony? Yes, they eat there; no, they don't consider it fine dining.

IMHO, it is popular because of the Sara Dickerman hypothesis: restaurants like these please everybody and are relatively inexpensive. The chicken-only person can have chicken, the fried-meat person can get that, etc., etc.

Posted by Klug | September 23, 2007 10:46 AM

Can you back that up, Soulite? The idea that "most Americans" never drink wine with dinner?

Posted by Steve | September 23, 2007 10:46 AM

Re Mark's spaghetti -- cheap and easy, yes. But 1/4 pound beef and 10oz tomatoes per pound of pasta is a lot less sauce than they're going to give you at a restaurant. Essentially what you're saying is that plain pasta is cheap. And it is! Which is why people don't usually go to restaurants to get it.

Anyone who has been to Italy can attest to the fact that their food is a big disappointment to most Americans.

Oh yeah, what's this supposed to mean? I've been to Italy and there were plenty of American tourists in the restaurants and they seemed pretty happy -- I didn't see anyone running around street to street looking for a Sbarro's.

Posted by JSE | September 23, 2007 10:47 AM

"restaurants like these please everybody and are relatively inexpensive."

Please sub "restaurants like these please everybody in a large, awkward group like extended families or workplaces and are relatively inexpensive."

Behold, the complete Dickerman chain restaurant hypothesis.

Posted by Klug | September 23, 2007 10:54 AM

Mark, before I got married, I used to have a regular cycle where I made a big batch of spaghetti sauce, and used part of it later to make lasagna, and threw in some peppers and kidney beans to make more into chili. You've seen that chart of the ATP cycle... I wanted to make the "tomato sauce cycle" chart just like it. ;)

JSE, sure, I'm a foodie, and make my own stocks overnight to freeze, and have a slaughterhouse connection for fresh tripe and intestines to make my own sausage casings, and crazy things like that. But keep in mind when doing an economic comparison of eating out vs the labor of making your own food, that most people don't have the option of telling their employer, "I think I'll work a couple extra hours today, I feel like eating out instead of spending time in the kitchen."

On a fixed income, eating out isn't an option, but spending time making a good meal instead of a mediocre one is.

Posted by Brett Bellmore | September 23, 2007 11:03 AM

Tourist: Could you give us directions to Olive Garden?

NYer: No, but I could give you directions to an actual Italian restaurant.

--23th & 5th

Posted by Overheardinnewyork | September 23, 2007 11:13 AM

$6 a plate, $12 a plate? Please.

Not all bottled pasta sauce is sugar laced Prego. Tastes vary but I like Newman's and certain Classico's. Or you can hit a higher end grocery and pick up something a little more upscale. But the suggestion that the alternative is Olive Garden or two hours at the stove is ludicrous. An 89 cent can of minced clams, some Newman's marinara (maybe 20% of a $2.89 bottle) and 20 cents of pasta plus 10 minutes of total prep time makes a perfectly satisfying plate of pasta. Pickup a loaf of garlic bread and maybe some packaged salad (watch out for the spinach) and a couple of bottles of Two Buck Chuck from Trader Joe's and you are looking at more like $4 per plate including wine.

For that matter you could feed yourself out of the deli section of your average Safeway complete with imported beer and wine for a fraction of that meal at Olive Garden or even Applebee's, and with no tip. The reasons that people eat out at fast food or cheap table dining restaurants or for that matter fine dining restaurants have no rational relationship to cost. People who wouldn't dream of paying $50 for a bottle of Laphroiag Scotch for home consumption happily pay $8.00 a shot at a bar (probably more in Matt's neighborhood).

I spend a shocking amount of money to drink cocktails, read newspapers and watch TV at my local bar without much interaction with the other customers and minimally with the waitstaff. Why? Well obviously the answers are not economic, I could do all that far more cheaper at home.

Why are Americans obese? Well it has a lot less to do with the Dollar Menu and the Neverending Pasta Plate then you would think.

Posted by Bruce Webb | September 23, 2007 11:19 AM

Hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but when my daughter and her friends were in junior high a big rite of passage was figuring out that the Olive Garden really wasn't very good food and all the old Italian restaurants around (this was the San Francisco area, and these kids were from every ethnic background imaginable) were where you'd want to go if you wanted a good meal. As junior high girl snobbery goes that probably the least harmful you can find.

By the way, in a year or so in Italy I never met an American who didn't like the food. I did, however, once make an exception for the potato chip pizza I spent my last lira on thinking it was some kind of exotic cheese topping.

Posted by Gene O'Grady | September 23, 2007 11:21 AM

This post cracks me up. I am a pulled-up-by-my-bootstraps member of the intelligentsia (i.e., MIT PhD candidate & first in my father's family to even attend college, etc.). I lived in NYC for 7 years, now back in Boston tucked away in the Ivory Tower, but right across the Charles is the "rest" of my life - my family and my long familiarity with chain restaurant dining. My thoughts, for what they're worth:

- chain dining is definitely pretty cheap (though not compared to eating in), and also FAST - when I eat out w/my dad and stepmom, we can have a full meal in under an hour. We're not big into apps or coffee after dinner, and seriously we're out the door in about 50 minutes usually. In part this is because we're so seasoned at chain dining that we know the menus pretty well. This never fails to amaze me.

- you have to know how to order in chain restaurants, if you want to eat healthy and/or well. Although many of them are trying to be more health-conscious (some offering a separate menu section of "lighter fare"), you can also try to navigate the menus yourself by choosing smaller portions of meat, demanding whatever nutrious veggies they can rustle up, etc. I vary b/w trying to accomplish this and treating a trip out to a chain restaurant like a no-holds-barred-serious-bloat-inducing-bingefest (as I like to say, "I'm getting my eat on!")

- Truthfully, I think in most American restaurants the killer is the portion size. No matter what we might do to take control of our diets in these types restaurants, the plates still too often are the size of my Barbie's swimming pool from my youth. Just unacceptably large.

Also, how has no one mentioned Cracker Barrel, with the kitschy, fatty eating and the country store for some after dinner dining?

Posted by Redstar | September 23, 2007 12:35 PM

Apparently, Harvard Square used to be full of trashy places for me to eat at. Boo.

Posted by Trevor | September 23, 2007 2:14 PM

Red Lobster is greatness.

Posted by Proud Parent of a Bumper Sticker Maker | September 23, 2007 2:30 PM

Petey, I'm waiting to see that recipe. At $6 per plate, I can't imagine what you're using.

Posted by AlanC9 | September 23, 2007 3:09 PM

Why is it odd that Chilli's has a branch near Harvard Square?

Posted by mad6798j | September 23, 2007 3:13 PM

Wow - an afternoon of skeet-shooting, followed by a trip to the Olive Garden. Oh, to be 25 again!

So I assume this means you're running for office, then?

Posted by Steve | September 23, 2007 4:48 PM

They, in fact, consider this fine dining. Despite what many of you apparently believe, this does not make them inferior. Believing it does is snobbery.

OK, then call me a snob-- and I have the gall to think I'm in the majority! I eat at those places often-- my culinary skills being quite limited. When I was in Korea, I would even go out of my way on occasion to seek them out as a little piece of home.

But I don't think I've ever really been fooled in to thinking of them as "fine dining" experiences. Decent, reliable, known, affordable food, sure-- but it's not a luxury experience by any means. I've had fine dining, I know what that's like, and TGI-Fridays is not fine dining.

Posted by Anthony Damiani | September 23, 2007 5:05 PM

Steve,

According to Wine Market Council study, more than 42% of adults don't drink at all. Only 14% of the population drinks wine at least weekly (another 19% are occasional wine drinkers). Let's see, 33% being less than 50%, Soullite's point is quite accurate, most Americans never order wine with dinner.

http://www.avenuevine.com/archives/001436.html

Posted by beowulf | September 23, 2007 5:39 PM

All the Americans I work with on a daily basis not only drink wine with dinner, they brag about their knowledge of fine wines. Most of them can tell you what polenta is, can pronounce 'gnocchi' correctly, (but not "bruschetta") and know the difference between toro and maguro sushi. They would laugh at you if you suggested eating at an Olive Garden. Pretty much anyone working in finance or as a corporate officer meets these criteria. The funny thing is, most of these people vote Republican. And yet the Democrats are the "party of the elite", go figure...

Posted by vanya_6724 | September 23, 2007 8:06 PM

A few comments:

1) If you go to the Olive Garden website, you may be in for two surprises: the culinary school they have in Tuscany for their chefs (they have photos, skeptics!), and their guide to food and wine pairing.

2) Soullite, claiming that anyone in flyover country who goes to Chilli's or similar restaurants considers this "fine dining" is, as others have suggested, a false and condescending assumption. Red Lobster is a possible exception, particularly among lower-middle class African Americans (where I live, Houston's is more popular among middle- and upper-middle class African Americans).

3) We have Chilli's, TGI's, etc. where I live, but the more popular chains are the upscale ones: Houston's McCormick & Schmick's, P.F. Chang's, etc. You can have very good meals at any of these. Last night, the lady friend and I had lobster rolls, spicy Maryland crab soup, and a couple of Sierra Nevada Pale Ales at M&S's. I'm sure what P.F. Chang's serves is nothing like what you'd get locally in China, but who cares -- the kung pao shrimp kicks ass. I'll take tasty over authentic any day of the week.

4) We also have a trend here of popular local restaurants turning themselves into small chains. In one case, a good local Italian went completely corporate and now has 15+ locations. Quality has dropped dramatically, as nearly all Italians in the kitchen have been replaced by Mexicans. The food is noticeably worse at our local outpost versus the original restaurant.

Posted by Fred | September 23, 2007 8:07 PM

vanya_6724

I bet that the corporate officers for Wal-Mart in Bentonville, Arkansas eat at Ruby Tuesday's. My guess is that your claim that the rich in NYC do not eat at Olive Garden.

Posted by superdestroyer | September 23, 2007 8:35 PM

In my experience, most Americans are disappointed with the food in China. I went to Beijing a couple of years ago with a group of grad students and undergrads.

With the exception of one of the grad students, my wife and I, everyone griped about the food. They were ecstatic when someone discovered an Outback, and dragged us to an Italian restaurant (which wasn't too bad, if you avoided the cheese).

Chinese beer, on the other hand, pretty much sucks. I was ecstatic when I discovered the Paulaner brewpub.

Posted by mwg | September 23, 2007 11:04 PM

Dude, you GOT to get out more.

Posted by Mark Adams | September 23, 2007 11:53 PM

superdestroyer,

Ruby Tuesday has gone a little upscale on some menu items recently. Their triple prime burger, for example (cooked to order), will compare favorably with any burger you've had elsewhere.

As far as Wal-Mart execs, you could be right. When they're in Bentonville, they are limited to whatever restaurants are there, and since their corporate policy forbids suppliers from wining and dining them (Sailer and an interesting article about this once -- he used to call on them when he was a corporate exec of some sort), there probably aren't too many fancy restaurants there. When the Wal-Mart folks are on the road, they still make appearances of being niggardly -- e.g., they share motel rooms on the road -- so I doubt they are eating as well as execs in other industries.

Vanya's observation is accurate about execs that I associated with in the financial services industry though. Plenty of wine snobs among senior sales execs I dealt with there.

Posted by Fred | September 24, 2007 12:16 AM

I don't think all chain restaurants are the same. That said, they are generally not that cheap. Outback and Cheesecake Factory come to mind in particular, though I don't think there are many entrees on any chain menu under $15. You can definitely find a much nicer non-chain restaurant for the same amount you'd pay at many chains - at least you can in San Francisco.

The real reason I posted, though, is to say that a good friend of mine is a waitress at Applebees, and as a public service, I've taken to randomly and frequently informing people of the way Applebee's prepares its food. According to my friend, their kitchen consists primarily of rows of microwaves, because most of their dishes are prepared by the waitstaff who simply microwave prepacked plastic bags of ingredients, cut them open and drop them on the plate. Who knows what preservatives and artifical ingredients go into making that process work.

Posted by es | September 24, 2007 1:00 AM

I posted the comment about eating out being hardly less expensive than cooking it yourself. Obviously there is some hyperbole there. And I've never been to an Olive Garden. However, using pasta as an example is biasing the case, because pasta and sauce (especially tomato sauce) is almost the cheapest good thing you can make at home. I know, because I like to cook and I spent a long time underemployed or in grad school. I could probably make $6/plate pasta using fresh mozzarella, basil, and good tomatoes though.

Move away from pasta and I still claim that eating out at inexpensive restaurants is very cheap considering that you are also paying for labor, rent, and capital investment. You can get a bowl of pho for $4-5, a burrito (a good California or Arizona one, not Taco Hell) for the same, Indian or Thai food for $8-9 a plate.

This is sure convenient for us, but I also want people to remember that it incorporates uncomfortably cheap labor. It's the same reason middle class people can afford gardeners, and so on. (In the 70s in my childhood Rust Belt city, I don't recall anyone without a huge-ass house hiring landscapers.)

Posted by Ben | September 24, 2007 1:53 AM

"In my experience, most Americans are disappointed with the food in China. I went to Beijing a couple of years ago with a group of grad students and undergrads."

It depends on where in the country you go, know what the local specialties are in certain regions and if you speak the language. Go to Zhejiang and you can get amazing food. I've never known an American who preferred American Chinese food to the real thing who had a good understanding of Chinese culture. I have to say though, Italy has been the only country where I was underwhelmed with the food compared to the reputation. I found too much of it on par with good Italian restaurants in the US, with gelato being about the only thing being far better than it is in the US. It's not bad, but I was disappointed.

I've found that American chain restaurants in American cities tend to be of lower quality than in the suburbs, probably because the high-quality locally owned places and better-quality chains tend to attract the top talent in the city, while the incompetents go to work at the TGI Friday's in Midtown Manhattan (worst calamari in the world). In the suburbs, Red Lobster is Le Cirque. In New York, Le Cirque is Le Cirque.

Posted by Reality Man | September 24, 2007 2:27 AM

"In the suburbs, Red Lobster is Le Cirque."

In the suburbs of New York? You must be on crack if you think that. In my county alone there must be at least half a dozen restaurants with CIA-trained chef/owners rated "excellent" by the NY Times.

Posted by Fred | September 24, 2007 2:34 AM

Re soullite at 9:06am - "Anyone who has been to Italy can attest to the fact that their food is a big disappointment to most Americans."

I wholeheartedly endorse this view. I went to Florence a few months ago and found the "Italian Italian" food to be rather gross by my sheltered palate. The pizza was liquidy and thin, the gnocchi was bitter and dry, and the lasagna just tasted off. I liked the gelato, though.

I've travelled all over the world and heartily enjoyed the food everywhere, but somehow I didn't dig what the Italians were offering.

Posted by nbt | September 24, 2007 3:06 AM

As an Italian American, let me just say that italian food in Italy is miles better than anything in the US. In fact Italian food in Italy is some of the best in Europe. It sounds like too many of Matt's readers have been eating in tourist traps. Ifigured most of you were smarter than that.

Posted by vanya_6724 | September 24, 2007 7:22 AM

You guys need to get a clue. Most of "fly over America" does not want to bother to figure out where the "authentic" restaurants are, nor develop an an appreciation of the "culture" of the area where the cuisine derived, nor learn exactly what to order to the menu (or how to order of the Vietnamese, Chinese, or Spanish language menu, or how to deal with the usual bad service or non-English speaking staff.

What of the problems of many of the small restaurants is that they are either very expensive, have very small portion size, treat the customers rudely (and no, most people do not want to have to develop a personal friendship with the owner in order to get good service), have lousy service, or have a lousy marketing mix.

Posted by superdestroyer | September 24, 2007 7:41 AM

Just pointing out that "the suburbs" are not all the same. I live in the San Gabriel Valley, probably the best Chinese food scene in the U.S. I live a mile from East L.A., too, so I can get real Mexican food, too.

Also, I can make a dinner of spaghetti & sauce for about a buck at home with maybe 10 minutes of easy labor. If I want to spruce it up, I can add a few cents' worth of garlic and Two-Buck Chuck. This is why I never order spaghetti when I'm dining out.

Posted by Adam Villani | September 25, 2007 12:48 AM

In case anyone is still reading and wondering about my $6/plate pasta:

I won't use anything but Reggiano, which gets a bit pricey, and I use it liberally. I often tend to use mushrooms pricier than white button mushrooms heavily in my sauces. I like using fresh basil, which isn't cheap. And sometimes I like throwing in some fresh tomatoes along with the canned, and some other fresh produce as well. Add some fish and decent olives if I'm making a puttanesca, and the costs add up. (And BTW, I highly recommend looking up the etymology of pasta puttanesca...)

In other words, I use high quality ingredients.

One can certainly make a far better plate of pasta than the Olive Garden serves for far less than $6/plate, but I likes me some ultra-tasty food.

My point was that to get something of the quality of my $6/plate pasta in a restaurant, I'd have to spend some really big bucks.

Posted by Petey | September 25, 2007 12:45 PM

I just had to say, whoever was in Philadelphia and went to the Olive Garden (12th and Chestnut?) makes me want to cry.

This town has so many great Italian restaurants ... what a shame that you wasted a meal at a dump like the OG. I'm assuming you were in from out of town? If so, why eat at a restaurant you can visit in any other U.S. city?

Posted by Mike LePost | September 25, 2007 4:14 PM