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Demolition Man

25 Oct 2007 10:39 am

Ed Kilgore offers a mixed review of Mark Penn's ludicrous Microtrends that takes a whack at Penn detractors:

A sprawling book like Microtrends, which purports to identify seventy-five distinct subcategories (sixty-four American, and eleven international) of people who have yet to get noticed by corporate and political marketers, provides plenty of targets for Penn detractors. In a review for In These Times, Ezra Klein cherry-picked some of the sillier and sloppier sections of the book, and constructed a demolition not just of Penn, but of political pollsters generally.

Ed doesn't approve of deploying the book in this way, but it seems like a telling concession to me. Penn, after all, is a political pollster. A highly respected and highly successful political pollster. And yet it's possible to "cherry-pick" several instances of sloppy or mishandled interpretation of survey data from Mark Penn's book. That seems important to me. Sometimes cherry picking is bad. But a person who purports to be a professional collector and analyst of survey data should rarely if ever make elementary analytical mistakes. Certainly he shouldn't make them in a book. It tells you something about the state of the profession that one of its leading practitioners can routinely make mistakes like this:

Not surprisingly, men are more flirtation at work than women (66 versus 52 percent, according to one survey); and substantially more men (45 percent) have had an interoffice romance than women (35 percent). That latter discrepency either means that men are serial Office Romancers; that men are more honest about this; that women more often leave the workplace after having an affair; or that some of those men's affairs are homosexual. I think the first theory is most likely -- the office has become the twenty-first century singles bar. Water is the new gin and tonic, and Muzak the new club beat.

That's dumb. Obviously, of those explanations the one that's "most likely" to be true is that some of those men's affairs are homosexual since we're absolutely sure that some men are gay men and that, therefore, some affairs are gay affairs. What Penn means is that he doesn't believe gay men fully explain the gap, and he's using the wrong words because he doesn't understand what he's talking about.

Another possibility he rejects as unlikely is that this has to do with women leaving the workforce. But, again, we know it's true that women are more likely to drop out of the workforce (after childbirth, for example) and that, therefore, the men in the workforce are older on average than the women and therefore likely to have more experiences in general than are women.

He also rejects the possibility of an honesty gap. And, indeed, anyone who knew anything about survey data (i.e., not professional survey data analyzer Mark Penn) would tell you that a gap between male and female self-reports of sexual activity is typical.

Last, after rejecting as unlikely three things that are definitely true, he homes in on the "most likely" explanation for why a higher proportion of men than women have office affairs -- "men are serial Office Romancers." The only problem here is that Penn's preferred explanation is inconsistent with the data! If (as Penn falsely believes) no gay people have jobs, men and women drop out of the workforce at the same rate, and men and women both accurately self-report their data, then Penn's result could only be explained by women being serial Office Romancers.

And though Ezra stands accusing of "cherry-picking" he didn't fit this into his review, nor did he mention the bizarre snipers poll that Penn uncritically accepts. There's a serious question here about Penn's field that someone who's this sloppy at the handling of his subject matter can be a leading member of the profession.

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Comments (16)

What, gay women don't have inter-office affairs? Or maybe they don't exist?

Dude's last big campaign was Joementum '04.

He started out under Republican Dick Morris.

Why does anyone in the world think Mark Penn has any grasp whatsoever on the Democratic primary electorate?

Dude ought to go back to advising Blackwater. The growth of mercenary forces is the kind of trend he has a grasp on.

But Democrats? Not so much.

Stop Hillary From the Left!

Heh..Bloix said exactly what I was thinking. I don't think that detracts from Matt's point, however -- Penn's analysis is still flawed.

The gay factor isn't mathematically self-evident as Yglesias believes. Obviously, some men in offices are gay, but that doesn't explain any portion of the discrepancy between frequency of male and female romances unless you add some facts we don't know: the relative percentages of gay men and gay women, and the relative frequency of romances involving gay men versus other groups. So I think Yglesias's work isn't demonstrably more careful than Penn's, though, in fairness, this is a blog post, not a published book.

This post is rather undercut by the fact that most of it is a criticism based on objecting to Penn using an obvious elipsis, obvious enough that the commenters all missed that it was even there (as did I on reading through before trying to figure out what Yglesias was getting at.)

You take "The first theory is most likely" as stating that the first theory is the one most likely to be a true claim, when in context it clearly means "the first theory is most likely to explain the phenomenon."

I don't think that Penn should have to protect himself against obviously uncharitable readings like this.

The point about his getting backwards who would have to be the serial daters though is clearly right. But you weaken the point by pounding on nonsense before making it.

If this reflects anything like what Penn is up to, then it's remarkably bad.

Even disregarding the methodological failings, Penn seems to be saying: People who have serial office romances are Serial Office Romancers (SORs)!

It's the nominal fallacy in action. If he describes any action by these people as being due to the fact that they are SORs then he's probably sliding into tautology too.

What amazing bullshitting!

For Penn to get the serial thing backwards is really embarrassing.

Also, for him to even include the homosexual hypothesis as a plausible explanation in the first place shows dubious judgement, given the relatively small percentage of homosexuals in the population.

I know this is off-topic but I need to make a public apology to MY for posting that "Friday Night Lights" has jumped the shark.
It has not. Last Friday's was perhaps the best show yet making FNL the first show to unjump the scary fish.

How would men being serial romancers make there be more men than women in romances? If one guy has 10 romances, then that's one man and 10 women. The only way to get fewer woman having romances is if some women a serial romancers.

That seems like a much more fundamental error.

I'd say all Penn's bases are belong to Matt.

from the Publishers Weekly review of Microtrends on Amazon.com:

"...because of "Extreme Commuters," people who travel more than 90 minutes each way to work, carmakers must come up with ever more luxury seat features..."

I look forward to the personal ass scratcher on next year's Prius. I hear Lexus is considering a driver's side ball washer.

Was Penn the Hillary pollster who said 124% of Republican women would defect?

Matt's perfectly correct to address the homosexuality issue. As Matt says, the workplace definitely contains both homosexual men and women. It seems reasonable to suspect that of the two groups, gay men tend to have more partners. As a result gay men working together are probably more likely to have an office romance than gay women.

Obviously that doesn't explain the 10/14 percent gaps in the surveys, but all these explanations add up. The honesty gap, especially when it comes to something as vague as flirtation, is a huge concern. It's similarly crazy to think that men being in the workplace for longer has no effect? Once you combine all these factors, I'd be surprised if the gap was more than a few points (in fact, maybe the gap reverses, in which case Mark's absurd conclusion could be correct).

Small percentage of homosexuals in the population? If the US is anywhere near as gay as the GOP, we're closing in on 50% faaaaaaabulous. Jim W must have his lips around a particularly potent peace-pipe if he believes the number of homosexual intra-office romances is low.

"that men are more honest about this"

I know we've been through this and decided this excerpt is arrant nonsense for several reasons, but why is the "honesty gap" automatically assumed to be the result of female underreporting? I always thought male overreporting had something to do with this gap - which, as Matt points out, is typical of these self-reporting surveys. I don't know how the survey was conducted, and I think it's likely that the men are being more honest, given that Office Romancing might still be frowned upon in some professional circles - but shouldn't the possibility of male overreporting at least be admitted?

Hm. According to the data. in a hypothetical office of 40 persons, equally distributed between sexes, 7 females and 9 males reported "interoffice romance".

The simplest explanations include two females romancing two males each, one romancing three, and to gay men having a romance.

The latter would agree with (a) estimate that 10% men are gay, and (b) estimate that gay men tend to be promiscuous, so they would have a romance with anything that moves and is gay. I mean, how many girls can you romance by twirling fingers and tapping your shoe? I think that promiscuous gay men are less than 10% of men, because they fit a narrow definition, and 10% figure is obtained by having a very explansive definition.

Other opportunities involve temp workers. Is a date with a temp worker an intra-office romance or an inter-office romance? And how about different departments of one huge institution. If a girl working for a Conde-Nast publication has a romance with a boy working for another Conde-Nast publication, how should it count? Dependent on who has more or less expansive view on that, honest reporting may vary.

Yet another opportunity involves oral sex that a certain percentage of population does not view as sex. Actually, one can see a continuum here, and an ample room for having different definitions.

The most probable explanation would be a compound of several. Say, 4% of men are promiscuous gays, and a similar percentage of women are promiscuous heterosexuals, which would account for most of the discrepancy, and the rest would be a combination of different definitions and different degrees of honesty.


Comments closed November 08, 2007.

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