« The World's Greenest Places | Main | Reggie Evans » Fun With New Media (Okay, it's probably a bit dull)06 Oct 2007 02:43 pm I haven't actually watched this hour-long interview of Steven Walt and John Mearsheimer by Harry Kreisler that's apparently part of a series of "conversations with history" that UC Berkeley is doing, but I think it may be of interest to readers: Kinda different from your normal YouTube fare I guess. Comments (30)
a few days ago SLC "devoutly wished for" the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. I asked him then, and I'll ask him again nw, as I never received an answer: SLC, what is your preferred model for the "solution" to the Palestinian Problem, Uzi's, mobile vans, or ovens? If you are going to continue to use this online forum to engage in eliminationist rhetoric wouldn't it be best if you are open and honest with us about the means and methods you and your fellow colonists might use to eliminate the Palestinians? 
I don't think we fully grasp the aims and behavior of Israel. Look at the history of the conflict. Time and again, Israel has shown itself to have no respect for innocent life. Even in this case(Lebanon),the conflict was escalated by Israel, and not only have civilians been killed far more than combatants, but an entire country and an entire people have been targeted for collective and unjust punishment.
SLC, your insult towards Mearsheimer only serves to demonstrate a point he makes near the end of Kreisler's interview: that the critics of Walt and himself spend too much time personally attacking and smearing them rather than addressing the substance of their arguments.
That's an odd site SLC links to. On the one hand, they seem to be arguing that the existence or reach of the lobby itself if dubious, but also speculate that the interview "didn't do much damage" to their cause.
When the real threat, in all of its forms is the Wahhabi/ Salafist Saudi/emirati lobby (CAIR, MPAC,
Re mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari At any time that the Palestinians agree to behave themselves, I am perfectly willing to leave them alone. By the way, I am opposed to expelling the Arabs currently living in Israel, unlike the late and unlamented Meir Kahane. Re Khaled I did not wach the Kreisler interview nor have I any intention of doing so. Based on the fact that Mr. Yglesias liked it, I suspect that it consisted of mostly soft ball questions. Anytime Prof Mearsheimer or Prof. Walt or both of them submit to an interview by Alan Dershowitz, I would watch it in a heartbeat, knowing that no softball questions would be asked. Re Wil Burns Apparently, Mr. Burns doesn't consider the kassems and homicide bombers to be targeting civilians.
"At any time that the Palestinians agree to behave themselves, I am perfectly willing to leave them alone. By the way, I am opposed to expelling the Arabs currently living in Israel, unlike the late and unlamented Meir Kahane." How does an ethnic group supposed to be able to behave itself? Are the Palestinians the borg?
"At any time that the Palestinians agree to behave themselves, I am perfectly willing to leave them alone. By the way, I am opposed to expelling the Arabs currently living in Israel, unlike the late and unlamented Meir Kahane." How does an ethnic group supposed to be able to behave itself? Are the Palestinians the borg?
Re Reality Man "How does an ethnic group supposed to be able to behave itself? Are the Palestinians the borg?" For starters, they can cease firing Kassems and stop trying to send homicide bombers.
Maybe Israel could give up on the idea that it's possible to kill hundreds of people every year and not take a few hits in return.
Heh, homicide bombers - isn't the whole idea of bombs homicide? The point of the term suicide bomber is to describe the fact that the perpetrator kills himself too. Homicide bomber is like saying homicide murder - it's a tautology. Sorry for feeding the troll.
Re William Burns Mr. Burns, of course, neglects to inform the readers that virtually all Israeli actions are in response to Palestinian terrorist attacks. At any time that the Palestinians cease and desist from homicide bombing and kassem attacks, the Government of Israel will be more then happy to cease retaliatory actions. However, lets look at the numbers. Thus far, since the second intifada started in 2000, approximately 4000 Palestinians have been killed. In 1982, Hafaz Assad killed 20,000 people in the Syrian city of Hama in 2 days. The Government of Israel has a long way to go to catch up with the late and unlamented dictator Assad.
Heh, homicide bombers - isn't the whole idea of bombs homicide? The point of the term suicide bomber is to describe the fact that the perpetrator kills himself too. Homicide bomber is like saying homicide murder - it's a tautology. Well, I suppose you could say you need 'homicide bomber' to distinguish them from all those, er, peaceful, um, 'bombers', who don't plan to hurt anybody. Maybe there's some whole range of bomber specialties of which I'm unaware, of course we already have terms for arsonists and firebombers, so, hmmmm, off hand I forget which bombers go around bombing while apparently not trying to either kill people or set fires.
There we have it, SLC begins discussion in the vile way way that only a complete vile slug can begin a discussion. How did you ever get to be so sick? You make the case for those you despise in every sentence. You are a professional hater. Hate on, SLC slug.
SLC, the definitive hater. Ready to hagte and lie at every moment.
Re SLC Every time MY posts an article about Israel, the Palestinians or AIPAC, this contemptible GIYUS and/or AIPAC stooge makes some outrageously derogatory or racist comment that deflects the discussion from the topic at hand to rebuttals of his usually disgusting posts. I know that the best policy is to ignore trolls and thereby not encourage them, but it's so difficult with this extreme right-wing "Israel can do no wrong" wacko. Still, I suggest that no matter how outrageous his posts are, that he be ignored - maybe then he will go away.
"For starters, they can cease firing Kassems and stop trying to send homicide bombers. Posted by SLC | October 6, 2007 6:17 PM" Wow, you kind of missed the point. So the Palestinians as an ethnic group have fired Kassems and sent in suicide bombers? By that logic, when are white people going to stop blowing up Oklahoma City? "Mr. Burns, of course, neglects to inform the readers that virtually all Israeli actions are in response to Palestinian terrorist attacks. At any time that the Palestinians cease and desist from homicide bombing and kassem attacks, the Government of Israel will be more then happy to cease retaliatory actions. However, lets look at the numbers. Thus far, since the second intifada started in 2000, approximately 4000 Palestinians have been killed. In 1982, Hafaz Assad killed 20,000 people in the Syrian city of Hama in 2 days. The Government of Israel has a long way to go to catch up with the late and unlamented dictator Assad. Posted by SLC | October 6, 2007 7:37 PM" By that logic, then the suicide bombers are justified in principle because their actions are in response to the ethnic cleansing of their people via the settlements. "Eye for an eye" logic isn't morally sound when it's done against an entire group, be they Israelis or Palestinians. What does Assad have to do with anything? No one here is defending him. If you want your bait-and-switch to work, you can't be so obvious about it.
didn't look @ the interview matt posted but slc's interview totally doesn't support his point. i don't like mearsheimer and his original article with walt was very anti-semitic, but he looks completely reasonable in that interview.
Re Jennifer As I have stated previously, according to my Syrian friend Ammar Kanaan, Dr. SLC is prejudiced against everybody. By the way, as best I can tell, Prof. Mearsheimer is a Caucasian so I don't quite see how my calling him a bad name amounts to racism. Re Reality Man The FBI arrested the men who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City. Law enforcement, such as it is, in the Gaza Strip has yet to arrest anybody for firing Kassems across the fence separating it from the State of Israel. That seems like a significant difference to me. Re chet Unfortunately, the commentors on this blog, including our less then distinguished host, seem to feel that the State of Israel can do no right.
This is a bit off topic but I have had a number of debates with other commentors on this blog relative to the issue of resettlement of Palestinian refugees in Israel. Many of these commentors have insisted that my claim that this is the main impediment to a peace settlement is erroneous. Well, here is link to an article which totally supports my position and totally discredits theirs. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1191257234810&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
"Unfortunately, the commentors on this blog, including our less then distinguished host, seem to feel that the State of Israel can do no right." It can't. It is an illegal, terrorist, pariah state. It was illegally formed by the UN, who had no legal authority to do so, it then proceeded to seize territory in an illegal war, which accompanied an illegal expulsion of Palestinians, followed in 1967 by another illegal war in which even more territory was seized illegally, and during which it attacked and murdered numerous US personnel on a US Navy ship. The only way in which Israel could do something right would be to dissolve itself, agree to a request to the UN to implement the Palestinian Mandate as it was meant, agree to assist in forming the state of Palestine and agree to abide by the decisions of the UN in regard to implementing that process. Anything they do to oppose any of this is illegal, and criminal, and they should be dealt with by the international community accordingly. And the notion that all Israeli actions are in response to Palestinian terrorism is a total joke. The settlements are not so in response and never have been. And it is the settlements and the seizure of land that is at the heart of the Zionist criminal behavior. Howard Berkowitz over at TPM makes the valid point that any explanation by Israel that seizing the land is intended to set up a "defensive sector" to separate the Palestinian "terrorists" from being able to attack Israel is ridiculous given the capabilities of military armaments available to Hamas and Hizballah or to any potential Palestinian state. SLC is a Zionist thug who relies on lies, insults and intellectual dishonesty, nothing more.
Re Richard Steven Hack "SLC is a Zionist thug who relies on lies, insults and intellectual dishonesty, nothing more. " Richard Steven Hack is a convicted felon and ex-con whose legal opinions relative to the State of Israel represent the ravings of a jailhouse lawyer.
SLC is a Zionist thug who relies on lies, insults and intellectual dishonesty, nothing more. I don't know if that's fair. He also uses frothing racial bigotry.
OK, SLC, Israel is one-fifth as bad as Hafez Assad. I can accept that.
I like toitles.
Attached is a link to a review of the Walt/Mearsheimer book in todays' Washington Post. It will undoubtedly not satisfy either the defenders or detractors of Profs. Walt and Mearsheimer. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/04/AR2007100402101.html?sub=AR
Attached is a link to a commentary on Jeffery Goldbergs' review of the Walt/mearsheimer book by the favorite of the Israel bashers on this blog, Norman Finkelstein. Lots of raw meat in this one. http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/2007/10/jeffrey-goldber.html#comments
Amazing that SLC links to Finkelstein's article in Counterpunch because it leaves Goldberg bleeding in the dust. I mean, read that review of Goldberg's book - it will devastate you. It's just incredible stuff. Finkelstein just buries Goldberg. It's a long piece - read every word of it. Every time I read something like this - that digs up EVEN MORE about how the Israelis are treating the Palestinians - the more it becomes clear that Israel as a state has to go - and most of the IDF and Israeli police forces - not to mention most of the Israeli government figures - need to be arrested, tried for war crimes and executed by firing squad. These people truly ARE behaving like Nazis. The ONLY thing the Israelis have not done yet is build ovens and gas chambers for their Palestinian prisoners. Really. That's about it. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised at the depth of the intellectual dishonesty and intellectual cowardice of your average Zionist. Because if I was THAT FUCKED UP about what I was doing to other people, I'd be too insane to think clearly about my motivations either. By the way, my "legal opinions" vis-a-vis Israel come from the commission the UN set up back in 1946 or 1947 to study the issue of whether the UN had the legal authority to do anything but implement the Palestinian Mandate created by the League of Nations. The commission concluded the UN did not have that authority. Which means that Israel is an illegal state that quite literally does NOT have a "right to exist".
The WaPo review of M&W's book starts out like this: "The original sin, in the Mearsheimer-Walt cosmology, is the United States' support for Israel, which they view as the root cause of global instability, Islamist terrorism and American insecurity. To enter into this faith is to accept the premise that a shifting, stealthy, protoplasmic group of Zionists, most of them Jews but some evangelical Christians, have for decades manipulated the puppet strings of Congress and the White House." So you can see how this works out. Because nothing in that paragraph is even remotely connected to the reality of the M&W book. If you listen to the interview that Matt links to, you will see that instantly. M&W explicitly state in that interview that many of their critics misrepresent their material egregiously. The above WaPo review demonstrates that clearly. Once again establishing the fundamental intellectual dishonesty of the Zionist.
Comments closed October 20, 2007. |
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Heads in the Sand
A better interview by Stephen Colbert with Prof. Mearsheimer at the attached link. Colbert shows up Mearsheimer for the fucking asshole that he is.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/12162.htm
Posted by SLC | October 6, 2007 3:08 PM