I'm glad to see a show that tries to dramatize the decadent weirdness of the Upper East Side private school world (and they even added in a doesn't-fit-in character with an aging hipster dad), but where have all the Jews gone? The New York City elite hasn't been that kind of WASP preserve for decades. . . .
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Gossip Girl
12 Oct 2007 06:57 pm
Comments (41)
Hell, where are the kids from Hong Kong?
When I was first exposed to that world, as in the sense that I found out it existed in real life and not just in crazy Hollywood movies, it was a strange and mournful day -- that such places and things should exist!
it seems as if the TV bigs have concluded that jews aren't 'aspirational' enough - that dread word being the adjective most often deployed in pitch meetings (as i know to my cost). on tv 'jewish' still means kooky, left-field, neurotic, intellectual etc, i.e., minor character material.
also, a lot of the target audience is (or is fancied to be by tv people) 'post-racial', so the deliberate drawing-out of an 'ethnic' type would be irrelevant to them.
the fact that a high proportion of these tv bigs is jewish may be significant - or may not be.
"on tv 'jewish' still means kooky, left-field, neurotic, intellectual etc, i.e., minor character material."
I don't know. You've had Jews as major characters on some popular shows (e.g., Seinfeld, Will & Grace), though the neurotic/Woody Allen-type stuff was toned down. It could be that the Jewish powers that be are worried that the country is Jewed-out now, what with Jews getting us into wars for Israel and whatnot.
where have all the Jews gone?
NBC?
What's strange is the idea of there BEING exclusive prep schools on the Upper East Side.
I mean, yes, they have some schools in New York but the renowned ones are up in New England. Mainly because wealthy parents are willing to pay throught the nose if they can ship their sullen teenagers way up there and forget about them for a few months.
But I suppose they needed to meld the school with the NYC location on Gossip.
Strangely enought, in real life, the NYC kids seem to get kicked out of the New Hampshire school. One I know of was kicked out TWO WEEKS before graduation --after attending for 4 years at full tuition and after his father had given a ton of money to the school.
Which I suppose IS an education -- in a way. heh heh
He's going to have to take a year off before entering college because his college -- NOT HYP -- was not amused. Although I heard their indignation receded rapidly after his father wrote yet another check. sigh.
It's also funny that the only cute girl on Gossip Girl is Blake Lively --who's actually from California and whose character keeps wanting to flee there.
you say that TV has had major characters, i say that jewish characters tend to be 'kooky, left-field, neurotic, intellectual' - a good description of Seinfeld as a show i'd say.
also, on a more esoteric comedy-nerd level, Seinfeld is a 'minor character' show - ie, all the laughs originate in them. Friends is kind of the opposite model - but these things aren't black and white of course.
oh, and fred, i didn't bother commenting on your 'jews getting us into wars for israel' thang because if it was a joke it was a bad one, and if it wasn't it didn't deserve to commented on.
Er...Oops!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalton_School#Notable_alumni_of_the_Dalton_School
(Botton of list)
Don,
That's blatantly not true. You're confusing prep schools and boarding schools. The NYC prep schools are the day school variety, and they're definitely renowned, but more within the "elite" than out in the rest of the country. Forgive me thouugh, because this is the sort of nitpicking that only Northeasterners get involved in.
Disclaimer: I went to Hackley, my best friends in school went to Fieldston, Trinity and Collegiate, and everyone I know in New York my age is a private school kid.
Sadly, *my* school is only responsible for Olberman and Joe Klein.
And in the blackest mark on Hackley's history, the insufferable Chris Berman.
Isn't the more obvious question why anyone would want to watch such a show?
Well, the snarky answer would be that they're writing the show. Also, note that ethnicity and religion on TV shows usually reflect the politics of the Popular Front era. Remember "All in the Family"? Now in real life, the people in Archie Bunker's neighborhood are overwhelmingly Catholic (I believe that white Protestants constitute abut 5% of the NYC population), but the show had to make Archie a WASP.
They all got 'perfected.'
Hey Don Williams, how's your Jew Hating level today? Is it "elevated" or "severe"?
Lucretius,
"you say that TV has had major characters, i say that jewish characters tend to be 'kooky, left-field, neurotic, intellectual' - a good description of Seinfeld as a show i'd say."
You said "minor character". When a show is named after a character (e.g., "Seinfeld"), it's fair to say that character is a major one. Who, exactly, on Seinfeld qualified as "intellectual"? George qualified as "neurotic" but that character wasn't a Jew (although the actor, Jason Alexander was). The reality is there have been Jews as major characters on TV shows (Seinfeld, Will & Grace, The O.C., etc.) and they haven't all been Woody Allen clones as you suggest.
Don Williams,
It's nice to know that Matt's alma mater is diverse -- I mean, Wesley Snipes kid went there. That's about as black as you can get, this side of Charlie Murphy.
The reality is there have been Jews as major characters on TV shows (Seinfeld, Will & Grace, The O.C., etc.) and they haven't all been Woody Allen clones as you suggest.
Heck, Monica and Ross on Friends were Jewish and they were hardly stereotypical New York jews.
"It's nice to know that Matt's alma mater is diverse -- I mean, Wesley Snipes kid went there. That's about as black as you can get, this side of Charlie Murphy.
Posted by Fred | October 12, 2007 8:53 PM"
Are you Adrianne Curry? What's it like being married to a Brady?
Now you know what I feel like when I turn on one of the myriad hospital dramas and see fucking zero Asian-American men, unless they are interns.
Sex In the City was about four NYC WASP'S right?
Josh Schwartz, the guy who created Chuck and The OC, is the guy who brought Gossip Girl to TV. He's Jewish.
yes, on SATC they were all WASPS (last names: Bradshaw, York, Jones, and Hobbs.)
Friends was created by Brandeis grads (Marta Kaufman and David Crane), and I am a non-Jewish alum of Deis ("97). Love it. I remember there being an article in our student newspaper about the disappointing Jewish protrayal of the Friends' characters, since Ross, Monica and Rachel were all Jews, yet celebrated Xmas, and tacked on Hanukah as an afterthought once Ross's son was old enough to appreciate it, Our student journalists definitely thought they were trying to make the characters more goyish, and I definitely think that's true.
I am totally new to Gossip Girls; DVR'ing it, but have only seen an episode. Good call, Matt.
Kondriak,
"When I was first exposed to that world, as in the sense that I found out it existed in real life and not just in crazy Hollywood movies, it was a strange and mournful day -- that such places and things should exist!"
Speaking as a WASP from Virginia/West Virginia; I went to lots of all-WASP schools and had a great time. What don't you like about WASPS? Or is it just snooty rich people. If so, how do you feel about snooty Jewish people? Or are there none?
The New York City elite hasn't been that kind of WASP preserve for decades. . . .
It sounds like an entire show based on 16-year old clones of Megan McArdle.
Decadent weirdness? Please.
I think you're confusing your Manhattan neighborhoods here, Matt. Soho is decadent. Chinatown is weird (even if you're Chinese). The Village is a bit of both.
Carnegie Hill is wealthy, staid, and BORING.
(For reference sake, I went to one of those schools, and there was far more weirdness at my suburb's local day school in any given week than I saw in 5 years of prep school)
Re Greg's comment "The NYC prep schools are the day school variety, and they're definitely renowned, but more within the "elite" than out in the rest of the country. Forgive me thouugh, because this is the sort of nitpicking that only Northeasterners get involved in.
Disclaimer: I went to Hackley"
---------
1) I suppose it depends upon how much "prep" you want in the prep school:
Number of Students/ Mean SAT Reading /Mean Sat Math
Phillips Exeter: 1030 / 688 / 703
vs
Hackley: 835 / 669 /658
2) International Mathematics Olympiad 2007 -- US Team:
Gong, Sherry Gold
Larson, Eric Silver
Lawrence, Brian Silver
Leung, Tedrick Bronze
Tripathy, Arnav Silver
Zhai, Alex Gold
Ref: http://www.uni.uiuc.edu/gargoyle/2007/05/alex_zhai_to_represent_us_agai.htm
1) What's interesting is to look at Forbes' list of the 400 richest US billionaires. In 2006, only 244 out of 400 had college degrees.
2) Most of the guys in the top 10 list were college dropouts: Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Larry Ellison, Michael Dell, Sheldon Adelson,etc. Warren Buffet applied to Harvard Business School but was rejected. Several of the top billionaires are merely heirs of Sam Walton --who went to the University of Missouri.
3) Plus, most of the guys who had college degrees did not go to the Ivy League. In 2006, only 30 out of the 400 were Ivy Leaguers.
Ref: Book "All the Money in the World", Bernstein and Swan, 2007
where have all the Jews gone?
Fieldston.
they have some schools in New York but the renowned ones are up in New England
That's because if you're already rich and elite, you can send your kids to schools that other rich and elite people know about and send their kids to, not the schools that are "renowned" to everyone else.
What's interesting is to look at Forbes' list of the 400 richest US billionaires. In 2006, only 244 out of 400 had college degrees.
Becoming a billionaire is a high-risk proposition, and there are hardly any of them. You don't want to look at the career path of the people who became billionaires. You want to find the career path where the median person on that path became a multimillionaire.
Sam Walton went to U. Missouri. What did he study? Economics. How many of his classmates became wealthy? Probably not that many.
It's not interesting to look at a few anomalous rich people and go to the schools they went to. What would be interesting is to see which schools/professions/career paths resulted in almost everyone in that category became rich.
Gossip Girl is a huge guilty pleasure for me! Blair may be my favorite new character of the season.
I was also struck by the absence of Jewish characters, especially since the "minority twins" are the only minority characters in the show at all, and the fact that they worship and wait on Blair could be construed as offensive. But after some thought, I suspect that Josh Schwartz chose not to incorporate any main Jewish characters because Seth Cohen's half-Jewish descent was made such a big deal of on The O.C. Remember the Chrismukkah episodes and mixes? Shwartz is already having to fend off comparisons to The O.C. and maybe he felt it would be too much of the same?
Additionally, the show is based on a series of trashy books, and I suspect that none of the characters were Jewish in the series, which was probably another factor in the decision.
"Warren Buffet applied to Harvard Business School but was rejected."
Warren Buffett went to Wharton and the University of Nebraska undergrad and got a masters degree from Columbia University where he studied security analysis under his mentor Benjamin Graham.
Gates dropped out of Harvard, but his friend (and current Microsoft CEO) Steve Ballmer stayed and graduated.
It's also worth noting that a number of wealthy CEOs have doctorates, e.g., former GE CEO Jack Welch has a Ph.D. in chemical engineering (from UMass), Arthur Levinson of Genentech has a Ph.D. in Biochemistry from Princeton, etc.
They've all migrated to London, to be with all their ex-Soviet billionaire friends.
" The New York City elite hasn't been that kind of WASP preserve for decades. . . .
It sounds like an entire show based on 16-year old clones of Megan McArdle.
Posted by moron | October 12, 2007 10:55 PM"
Sorry to nitpick, but she's Irish Catholic and has written about having to deal with the corresponding discrimination, such as being called a "mick" and such.
You've had Jews as major characters on some popular shows (e.g., Seinfeld, Will & Grace), though the neurotic/Woody Allen-type stuff was toned down.
One of the most annoying things about Seinfeld (aside from it being enormously overrated) is the fact that it is a minority free New York, unless those minorities fulfill crude city archetypes-- the Chinese delivery guy, the Kenyan marathon runner, the restaurant owner with the funny accent, the Korean nail-shop employee, etc. I don't say that in an "I'm offended!" way, but in a "wow, what an incompetent portrayal of New York" kind of way.
The marathon runner, Jean-Paul, was Trinidadian (and Toboggan!).
Tinity and Collegiate are on the Upper West Side -- (ironically, since they were originally Wasp schools). But I suppose you could call them upper east side schools in spirit.
I suspect Matthew is thinking of Dalton, which he doesn't realize is an anomaly, since it was created and funded by liberal, New-Deal type Wasps and wealthy German Jews in order to provide a non-anti-Semitic counterpart to the Wasp private schools. The German Jews had their own dancing schools to which they sent their kids, in imitation of the Park Avenue Wasp ones (see Whit Stilman's Metropolitan).
Dalton still is handicapped by a relatively small endowment compared to the Protestant schools, I think. My sense is that is also suffers from a confusion of mission. The Protestant schools' mission was to educate our country's leaders. I don't know what Dalton's mission is/was, sometimes I suspect it is to rub elbows with celebrities. But this is a problem with all NYC private schools these days.
Sorry to nitpick, but she's Irish Catholic and has written about having to deal with the corresponding discrimination, such as being called a "mick" and such
I didn't realize that McArdle had been an infantryman during WWII.
No one born in the U.S. in the 1970's or later has ever experienced discrimination for being Irish Catholic, at least not in any meaningful sense.
Re "Becoming a billionaire is a high-risk proposition, and there are hardly any of them. You don't want to look at the career path of the people who became billionaires. You want to find the career path where the median person on that path became a multimillionaire."
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Yeah --but is that the "elite" or is it a bunch of fairly well-off provincials who think they are "elite" but who earn their money being servants of the elite?
Citing the highly overrated Jack Welch as showing the benefits of education is hilarious -- "Neutron Jack" made his living by working people into the ground by making them feel part of the "elite" GE -- and then making his numbers by betraying those performers and selling them off like slaves whenever circumstances called for Jack to show some leadership.
Part of what helped Jack was being able to count insurance premiums as revenues while underestimating the reserves needed.
His successor has had to come up with $9 BILLION! to make up the shortfall-- throwing GE's stock value into the toilet for almost a decade. See Barron's scathing article re Welch's tenure at
http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20051228 .
Manhattan's position as center of world finance slipped away some time ago -- that sucking sound you hear on Wall Street is a tidal current of capital receding to other places in the USA and around the world. Kinda sad when you have to get the news from the New York Times --which has a long tradition of telling us about an event only after the time has long since passed to do anything about it.
See "The Capital of Capital No More" at
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/magazine/14wallstreet-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Comments closed October 26, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
It's like the SNL skit: not when you're around.
Posted by SomeCallMeTim | October 12, 2007 7:01 PM