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Village Idiots

30 Oct 2007 11:53 am

Ezra Klein dredges up the famous Sally Quin article expressing her Establishmentarian loathing of Bill Clinton even as the country was clearly signaling that they were more interesting in the President's impact on the economy, their health care, etc. than in his sex life.

The remarkable thing about the article, though, is what it isn't. As in, at the end of the day it's not an incredibly revealing piece of journalism that accidentally explains what really drives these people. I just read it through twice and it remains . . . incredibly opaque. She expends thirteen graphs explicating Point 2 THE LYING OFFENDS THEM but Bush lying doesn't offend them at all. And, again, she says people were upset because "they feel Washington has been brought into disrepute by the actions of the president" but this is circular — its cogency depends on the view that Bill Clinton cheating on his wife was morally worse than Ronald Reagan sponsoring deadly acts of terrorism in Central America, it doesn't explain the view.

Nor does Quinn's column so much as broach obvious questions like why is JFK revered if Presidential infidelity so damn awful? Or how come nobody cares about all these divorced politicians? Like the press corps' view that George W. Bush, dim-witted recovering alcoholic and religious fanatic, was someone they'd "like to have a beer with" it just makes no sense on any level.

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Comments (79)

It's an entry barrier. If normal people could decipher the rules of the DC establishment, why, *anyone* might join. That's all.

As I recall, Clinton had fewer Democratic Party institutional protectors than one might expect. He did end up resetting the party a bit, and was often famously at odds with the existing the Dem Establishment. (I seem to recall that there is at least one parallel explanation of Nixon's resignation: he left because Republican congressmen were insufficiently committed to protecting him, and they weren't sufficiently committed because they thought him an outsider. (This might have been the explanation of someone in Nixon's White House.)) His people have since moved up and become the Establishment, so HRC is the (or at least a) Establishment's choice.

"Bush lying doesn't offend them at all."

Can you point to a particular "lie" you are offended by Matt. I know you often confuse getting something wrong with "lying," but is there something you can point to that is a proven lie. Meaning you can prove Bush knew the opposite of what he said was true at the time he said it?

Wow, the "Bush has never lied" guy showed up. There's a guy you don't see very often!

Dave, Powell's UN presentation, Bush's claim that toy airplanes were going to attack america with WMDs, and Bush's claim that a non-exitent IAEA report claimed that Iraq was going to have nuclear weapons in 6 months were all lies.

At least, when I attended a high school which had an honor code, such behavior would have sanctioned me. I don't see why I have to split hairs for someone when I would have suffered terrible consequences for engaging in the same kind of unhinged, unacceptable behavior as the president during his push to start a war. You, Dave, may wish that people had cut you as much slack in your dishonesty in your own life as you are cutting the president, but that is none of my concern.

Nor does Quinn's column so much as broach obvious questions like why is JFK revered if Presidential infidelity so damn awful?

I think we didn't find out about JFK's infidelity until after he was already dead. That makes a big difference. We tend to forgive those who have cheated in the past must more easily than we can accept those who are currently cheating. You may accept as a girlfriend someone who cheated on a previous boyfriend, but dump the girlfriend who cheats on you.

even as the country was clearly signaling that they were more interesting in the President's impact on the economy, their health care, etc. than in his sex life.

The public will always be more interested in sex than the economy or healthcare, I don't care what they signaled.

Here's a really easy one.

Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.

Dave, two words,

Yellow cake

You're missing the 'class' angle, i.e. whatever one might say about JFK and infidelity, whatever one might say about JFK, that he was 'low class' wouldn't be one of them. The 'problem' with Clinton wasn't the particulars of all that stuff, but he did his thing in a 'trailer park trash' sort of way.

Take Paula Jones, or Monica Lewinsky for that matter. A step down from Marilyn Monroe, wouldn't you think. And a bit embarrassing for POTUS, one would expect a higher class of mistress for a POTUS, just to uphold the dignity of the office!

The IOKIYAR crowd convict Clinton of perjury on the basis of his lies about his personal life and forgive Bush's lying us into war with a definition of perjury.

I think we didn't find out about JFK's infidelity until after he was already dead. That makes a big difference.

But the press knew. That's the whole issue, since we're talking about how the press regards infidelity.

Religious?

"Dave, two words,

Yellow cake"

Well, that is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Even if untrue, this was clearly not a lie. Every western intelligence agency said he was seeking yellow cake from africa. Even Joe Wilson's report made most analysts think it was more likely he was seeking it.

Notice how the "Bush has never lied" guy ignores the slam-dunk examples in order to cherry-pick one he can quibble over. Bush has never lied, you see, because a handful of his lies might not really be lies. This is why the "Bush has never lied" guy is rather tiresome.

Dave, the united states intelligence said that this was a statement that couldn't be defended. Bush said it anyway. That's what we call lying. It's amazing how people have come out of the woodwork to explain to us how what we normally regaard as lying isn't really lying. It's similar to the way that what we before referred to as "stupid" (ie, not being knowledgeable, not having any desire to think, etc.) wasn't really "stupidity" but something else, which masked some heretofore unseen "intelligence" that existed deep-down.


Even Joe Wilson's report made most analysts think it was more likely he was seeking it.

Am I living in an alternate universe? I'm pretty sure in my world this report said the exact opposite.

Well, that is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Even if untrue, this was clearly not a lie.

There's moral idiocy in your view. A lie is an attempt to deceive, and the whole lead-up to Iraq was a PR campaign. Check the actual wording of the Congressional resolution that they crafted and compare it to the public campaign that fanned support for the war. It's like they were talking about 2 separate countries.

Re: I think we didn't find out about JFK's infidelity until after he was already dead.

There were certainly rumors galore when he was alive. However they were relegated to the sphere of rumors and gossip even by those who believed them and hated Kennedy. They were not treated as "news".

Re: whatever one might say about JFK, that he was 'low class' wouldn't be one of them.

I disagree: compulsive womanizing, like compulsive gambling or drinking screams "Low class" and "No character". Now, if JFK had had a single mistress, some truly classy dame, whom he kept in some secret well-appointed love-nest on the side, and her children farmed out to Catholic schools in Europe, that might qualify as high class adultery of the sort once indulged by kings and popes. But sending out the secret service to round up a hooker or two for the night is just as seedy as Monica and the blue dress.

— its cogency depends on the view that Bill Clinton cheating on his wife was morally worse than Ronald Reagan sponsoring deadly acts of terrorism in Central America, it doesn't explain the view.

Nor does Quinn's column so much as broach obvious questions like why is JFK revered if Presidential infidelity so damn awful? Or how come nobody cares about all these divorced politicians?


First of all, the cogency that excuses cover-ups of political affairs is that they are related to a political program which may benefit the country and the world (as opposed to personal libido), so it's OK. This has a lot to do with liberal self-loathing and fear of the denialist right-wing smear machine, concerns of allegation of bias, and so forth. Still, there it is.

Second of all, Kennedy may have used the Secret Service to assist in his infidelity, but he did not orchestrate a cover-up against the rule of law to protect himself (Ignoring Judith Campbell). A cover-up is not a victimless crime; in addition to undermining truth in justice it also harms the "accuser." Most of you would be convinced that Lewinsky was a hysterical liar paid off by Richard Mellon Scaife or some other boogieman (like you think about Kathleen Willey and Gennifer FLowers and Juanita Broadrick and Paula Jones.) if she had had her dress cleaned properly. Similarly, Kennedy was a pig with respect to women, but did not loudly proclaim his politically correct principles on gender issues while having an affair, introducing an element of noxious hypocrisy.

Thirdly, divorce and most other family complications are not relevant to the issue of lying. This should not be so complicated. Even if divorce did result from the humiliation of adultery, it does not necessarily involve obstruction of justice.

Don't forget Bush's repeated, explicit, and false claim that Saddam Hussein did not let inspectors into Iraq.

I notice that Dave quickly seized on the "Yellow Cake" claim to attempt to suggest that it isn't a lie. That's because the Yellow Cake claim has had so much crap spewn around it that he can attempt to throw the crap around, muddy up the waters, and make it seem like Bush was using weasel words instead of lying.

I notice also that Dave ignores Steve's example of a really big obvious and completely irrefutable lie that Bush told - that the government doesn't wiretap without a court order. Big bold LIE that, unlike a lie about a blow job, strikes at the heart of our Constitutional government. And incredibly difficult to spin away as not a lie. So it gets ignored. Nice one Dave.

BTW I agree with someone above that social class is the unspoken variable here. The Villagers can never admit that they're class snobs because that would undermine their entire claim to be 'just folk' themselves, but it's true. Clinton was white trash. Nixon suffered from this perception, too. Clinton's behavior fit that frame.

Doesn't anyone find the sight of SALLY QUINN criticizing Bill Clinton's sex life hilarious?

In my opinion, any standing Sally has in Washington was bought by satisfying elderly Ben Bradlee's sexual urges. In her youth -- a long time ago -- she was the Monica Lewinski of the Washington Post news room.

Maybe it's true what they say --that elderly retired whores are the most severe censors of public morality.

Oh, and lies which, if exposed, would open up the exposer to charges of insufficient patriotism, are unobjectionable to the Village because -- as 'just folk' -- they are per se patriots.

I think j mct gets at it with the class angle argument. I also think that the Beltway Establishment (BE) was marketed to heavily.

Just like hipsters who think they've found the new new thing, only to discover that a major marketing effort by a big corporation was behind it. So too the BE thought they were deeply shocked at Clinton, only to have the folks behind the Arkansas Project reveal their hands in getting that shocking material out there in the first place, with the Starr Report the best and final public example.

The fact remains that millions of dollars were spent to get "respectable" BE-ers to abhor Clinton. That they fell for it so easily shows how really unsavvy they are; just rubes after all.

For a rather ..restrained.. account of Sally Quinn's life and "career" see
http://www.salon.com/media/1998/03/09media.html .

"Meaning you can prove Bush knew the opposite of what he said was true at the time he said it?"

I can't prove Bush knew anything about any subject at any point in time, so point Dave. Congrats.

More importantly - to Matt's point about JFK. The DC press hates LIVING Democrats who pose a threat to the GOP. Bobby Kennedy, FDR and his wife, LBJ -- all good and safely dead.

I'd be happy to agree that Bush has lied. I am not here to defend Bush. I simply have not seen proof of outright lies and I think calling someone a liar for getting something wrong just weakens any arguments against Bush. If anyone can provide links to quotes by bush wih links to proof he knew he was lying, I would not protest.

"Bush lying doesn't offend them at all"

Really? You're kidding, right? I've noted massive offense being taken by the Quinnlies of DC to Bush lying. Which "them" are you referring to?

OT but Mr. Yglesias may want to comment on our favorite whore, Ms. (Mr.) Ann Coulter being seen and photographed in a gay restaurant in West Hollywood, accompanied by two gay escorts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacobs/ann-coulter-on-the-gay-_b_70156.html

The Clinton's treatment was freshman hazing.

Reagan was not subjected to freshman hazing because he seriously ran against Washington. He did not arrive seeking approval; hence he did not need it; hence he got it.

Bush was - well - a Bush. For all his Texas affectations, he really was Andover, Yale, and Skull & Bones.

No the Kennedy's were not and are not upper class. They were - and are - lace curtain Irish. However, they already had been through quite a lot of hazing, so they had paid their dues. And the fact that both Jack and Bobby were assassinated makes quite a difference.

(Besides the Bush's, the only other upper class recent presidents have been the Roosevelt's and - arguably - Taft.)

Note that most of the Washington establishment actually are not established - like the Kennedy's they for the most part are also nouveau upstarts. That makes them particularly bitchy. ( And also helps explain their identification with the Kennedy's. )

Note that Hillary has spent much of the past seven years paying her dues.

Dave is being less than honest when he discusses Yellow Cake - Pehaps we are being more than charitable here too - Iraq has plenty of Yellow Cake in Iraq under UN seal - They had no reason to get any from Africa and Joe Wilson made that more than clear - In fact, one of the lies Plame illuminate in her testimony was the bogus claim that Wilson said otherwise.
Iraq did not have the equipment to do anything with Niger Yellow Cake anyway - Even if they got the equipment and decided to foolishly haul meaningless Yellow Cake from Niger instead of using their own, it would have been detected.

Dave,

In 2004, when Bush was campaigning in Philadelphia, he told the assembled crowd that he ate cheesesteaks with Cheese Whiz. Later on, it was revealed by the guy who provided the sandwiches to the campaign that Bush ate his cheesesteaks with American cheese, not Whiz.

That, my silly naive friend, is a LIE.

Oh yeah, and you're completely wrong and/or lying about the yellow cake thing.

Bush is not being honest about torture - and he is familiar with the fact that waterboard has been a common torture technique for hundreds of years,

I think Bush admitted to lying about not going to fire Rumsfeld before the 2006 election.

You can easily say Clinton did not lie - if you offer Clinton the same kind of slack or half as much slack as Bush.
There is no proof that Clinton thought what he did with Monica constituted sexual relations - No propf Clinton thought he was lying - In fact - Clinton used careful phrasing precisely to avoid the charge of lying.
People judge Bush (especially bien pensant liberals in the Village) by much looser standards. The irony is that Bush is smarter than many of these journalists - but less honest. They fool themselves thinking the opposite.

"Bush did not lie" == "The United States does not torture."

I simply have not seen proof of outright lies and I think calling someone a liar for getting something wrong just weakens any arguments against Bush.

OK, if you want to play games, Bush is very often wrong. Whether it is intentional or unintentional, what Bush says cannot be trusted as being true. Therefore, instead of calling Bush a liar, we can all simply agree that he doesn't tell the truth.

Dave, heard of me much?


-

The Post has gone to the extent of editorializing at length about how Scooter Libby's lies to the grand jury should have been given a pass - although, to give Hiatt some credit, he made his case by lying himself about what Libby was charged with, ignoring stories reported in his own paper.

So: a president lying in a civil suit about sex (which does not even come reach the level of perjury) is an impeachable offense, and Scooter Libby outing a CIA agent is a patriotic act. It is pretty easy to parse this: the D.C. establishment leans pretty far to the right. I imagine that if you did an honest poll of Washington's opinion marketmakers - the consultants, the think tank boys, the op eders - Bush would rack up a Good to excellent mark of about 60 percent or more - about the opposite of the national average. Too bad they never do such polls. They'd give us a good predictor for what dogfood they intended to feed us this time.

ew, ew, I got one, I got one! How about when Bush said he would return honor and dignity to the White House. It's pretty clear now that he had no intention of doing so.

BTW, the comment above about Bush saying Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in answers your question dead to rights....why haven't you responded yet, Dave. Your silence is deafening....


-

And Bush himself, in his 1999 autobiography, “A Charge to Keep,” recounts the thrills of his pilot training, which he completed in June 1970. “I continued flying with my unit for the next several years,” the governor wrote. But both accounts are contradicted by copies of Bush's military records, obtained by the Globe. In his final 18 months of military service in 1972 and 1973, Bush did not fly at all. And for much of that time, Bush was all but unaccounted for: For a full year, there is no record that he showed up for the periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen.
***************************

Of course this was only a lie about his military service. It has nothing to do with BJ's.


Another Salon article --which had a much less restrained view of Sally Quinn's "career" -- is here:
http://dir.salon.com/story/books/feature/2001/10/08/monica/index1.html

Titled "Our Monica, Ourselves". A short excerpt from page 2:
-------------

"That attitude produced one moment of high comedy (and something more generally pornographic than anything in the Starr referral): Sally Quinn's Washington Post piece about how Bill Clinton offended official Washington, as much by the challenge to the Washington power structure in his first inaugural address as by his later behavior.

This coming from a woman who -- as Esquire noted, referring to Quinn's affair with and later marriage to Post editor Ben Bradlee -- "fucked the boss, broke up his marriage, became the toast of Washington. Twenty years later, decides to get self-righteous with Clinton." "
---------


If anyone can provide links to quotes by bush wih links to proof he knew he was lying, I would not protest.

No, you'd just quibble some more, because you're a fucking troll.

(Please don't be under the misapprehension that Dave the Troll gives a shit about anything you say to him; as a troll, he only demands your attention and distraction.)

And yes, it's a class thing with Sally 'Blowjob' Quinn. Parlour intrigue is for the Establishment, not the elected.

Just last night I saw a breathless report on the "news" about a new book which purports to contain the real opinions of Jerry and Betty Ford. Mildly interesting you might think on first blush. After all he was, however, briefly the POTUS. And what opinion were they highlighting?? Well, it seems that it was Betty's belief that Bill Clinton is a sex addict. Hmmm. Would someone please remind me where former-model Ford got her training in clinical psychology? I know she had substance abuse issues, but the connection seems a bit tenuous from there to being a diagnostician. And when did Clinton go to her for therapy? But then again the most important thing about the "story" is that it sheds more bad light on our bad-boy ex-President. The "news" has sunk so low and is so transparent, but they keep telling us that this is what we want to here. Let's have a show of hands.

Woody, that story about cheesesteaks was about Kerry, not Bush.

Per JFK having 'class' as discussed above. I think that you're thinking too hard. JFK was a witty, charming, and urbane man, in person at a cocktail party, and I think that's all that matters in the world of Sally Quinn. RR was the same. They would have made excellent courtiers, which doesn't mean that that was all that might be 'to them' though. The First Duke of Marlborough was the best courtier of his generation and the best soldier at the same time.

Nixon? Definitely not a courtier material. Not even (personally) a lovable schlump like Jerry Ford. I think 'liked by the Washington Establishment' and these qualities definitely go together.


Take Paula Jones, or Monica Lewinsky for that matter. A step down from Marilyn Monroe, wouldn't you think. And a bit embarrassing for POTUS, one would expect a higher class of mistress for a POTUS, just to uphold the dignity of the office!

This is certainly my view. What does it say to the world if this is the best the US President can muster? Its pathetic...

j mct hit it- That crowd considers Clinton's indiscretions to be louche. Every President's friend Bob Hope used to fuck bowling alley servers and five & dime clerks but he wasn't President. Appearances are all to these people- they could care less about how many Iraqi children lost their limbs and parents but if you're swinging your dick randily in all directions- you're a bad, bad man.

j mct: Woody, that story about cheesesteaks was about Kerry, not Bush.

Ridiculously enough, there are _two_ cheesesteak stories from the '04 campaign. Bush's line about "whiz wit'" was a response to the supposedly unpardonable sin committed by Kerry, which was to order a cheesesteak with swiss cheese. But Bush, it was determined later, _doesn't_ actually order cheesesteaks with Cheez Wiz, but with American.

There's really nothing wrong with Monica Lewinsky and it's sort of pathetic when people mock her at this late stage.
So she got caught up in an embrassing situation - Nevertheless - it's strange to see people trash her after all these years.

Woody, that story about cheesesteaks was about Kerry, not Bush.

Actually, no, that was about Bush lying about being more authentic than Kerry:

It all started yesterday, when CNN, Fox and The New York Times were content to transcribe and transmit President Bush’s comment about preferring his Philadelphia cheesesteaks “Whiz with,” thereby handing the Bush camp what it was after — a revisitation in the national press of a year-old John Kerry “faux pas” (ordering his Philly cheesesteak with Swiss). [...] Kathleen E. Carey of The [Delaware County, Pa.] Daily Times went beyond mere stenography and did a little leg work on the issue, [...] And the intrepid Carey came up with her own expose. She reported that Bush actually “prefers his steak absent of the usual Cheez Whiz and provolone, accompanied only by cheese of the American variety,” information that she obtained from her own Deep Throat, one Caeser Barnabei, the owner of the well-known cheesesteak shop, Jim’s Place. Barnabei, who has fed the Bush camp on previous swings through Pennsylvania and provided “70 to 80 hoagies” for the Bush campaign yesterday, confided to Carey that “the Jim’s Special is altered to whet the ‘W’ appetite.”
(From the Columbia Journalism Review: link in my sig because I can't make the "a" tag work.)

Now, if we assume that Bush actually knows what he always gets on his sandwiches, we must conclude that he did, in fact, deliberately lie about it to make Kerry look bad.

And it's very telling that Kerry's ignorance of how Philly locals prefer their sandwiches got more traction and more press than Bush's LYING. About CHEESE.

(It's been my experience that someone who casually lies about stuff that doesn't matter in the least ought not be trusted with stuff that does matter--like my privacy, for instance...)

Even as a resident of Philly, I would suggest that our Presidents be chosen on something other than how they prefer our cheesesteaks.

Besides, there are other things we Philadelphians take great pride in besides our cheesesteaks:

From http://www.stuff.co.nz/4247640a4560.html :
--------------

"Philadelphia is home to the least attractive people in the United States, a survey of visitors and residents showed.

The city of more than 1.5 million people was also found to be among the
least stylish,
least active,
least friendly
and least worldly,

according to the "America's Favorite Cities" survey by Travel & Leisure magazine and CNN Headline News.
---------

I myself think that Travel and Leisure should take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.


IMHO, class is a big part of it, but some of the discussion is assuming a very shall we say "Northern" view of class.

Remember, DC is South of the Mason-Dixon line and our politics are very much Southern Dominated (even before the Southern Strategy, the South had a big veto ... but generally on the Dem. side).

The thing about the Clintons are that she's a carpetbagger and he's a scalawag. Don't they teach people 'bout scalawags in school?

What's so elitist about ordering the "wrong" cheese on a cheese-steak? My parents, shall we say, um, don't keep kosher at all. In Philly my dad wanted, of course, to get a cheese-steak.

You know how he ordered it? He actually specified a particular blend of cheeses he wanted used (from the choices they offered)! And my dad is hardly some elite rich dude (if he were, I'd be a lot less worried about how I'm gonna afford my upcoming wedding ;) ).

When you think about it, in fact, only rich people can "have the common touch". Us actually commoners don't have the common touch, we simply are commoners ...

Broder explains it for you. They "trashed" DC, and it's not "their place." The problem is not that they trashed the place -- trashing the place is completely allowed. It's that it wasn't their place to trash; they weren't part of the Club.* Kennedy was, so he could do whatever he wanted. Reagan was, so when he did stuff that was as bad as what Nixon, who wasn't, did, it was overlooked.

* Ironically, they kind of are now.

Damn it, Yglesias!

I was nodding along with this post. Then it became clear that Matt's thinking involves the premise that the Washington establishment harbors some sort of deep affection for President Bush.

I would have preferred to read why the patent hostility of the Establishment toward this President has not congealed into a process that threatens his presidency (as it did with Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton).

hey dave, how about "I will fire anybody who leaked Valerie Plame's name to the press." That was a big, fat, f-ing lie. By the way, everything your chimperor says is a lie including and and the!

Kennedy is revered because he was killed and his widow ruthlessly exploited the sympathy she got to put across a public image of him that was about 180 degrees from the truth.

People who grew up believing that JFK was King Arthur don't want to be told that he was a lot more like Caligula. (Charles McCarry came up with that comparison, but it's pretty accurate.)

I sat down with a relative of mine once and had her listen to some of the Kennedy bits at Whithousetapes.org where, among other things, you hear Kennedy and his aides planning to use the CIA to track down leakers in the US and you hear JFK order the cancellation of the passport of someone who made a speech abroad which was critical of JFK's economic policy.

Even after hearing that, and having a good idea of how out of control JFK's libido was (he had a lot of mistresses on the public payroll), my relative was still talking about what an heroic figure JFK was.

If someone had murdered Clinton, he'd get the same treatment in popular memory, and most people would forget about Monica Lewinsky, the pardon of Marc Rich, and all the other dodgy moments in his Presidency..with the exception of that small group of people for whom Clinton's actual indiscretions pale besides his real crimes of murdering Vince Foster and smuggling cocaine. (i.e., a lunatic fringe.)

May 31, 2003:

"And we'll find more weapons as time goes on," Bush said. "But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them."

"There is no doubt Sadddam has weapons of mass destruction"

-George W. Bush

October 13, 2004:

BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.

March 13, 2002:

Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.

On a second UN resolution on Iraq, March 6, 2003:

Q Thank you, Mr. President. As you said, the Security Council faces a vote next week on a resolution implicitly authorizing an attack on Iraq. Will you call for a vote on that resolution, even if you aren't sure you have the vote?
...
THE PRESIDENT: No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam.

The thing about the Clintons are that she's a carpetbagger and he's a scalawag.

In other words, he's a southerner, she a northerner living in the south, and neither of them are racists.

And any time President Bush said he didn't want to go to war or hadn't decided after January 31, 2003, when he told Tony Blair that military action against Iraq would start in March 2003.

Hah. I noticed that the troll Dave has stopped with the "when did Bush lie?" claptrap. Good work mentats.

SLC:

"OT but Mr. Yglesias may want to comment on our favorite ....., Ms. (....) Ann Coulter...."

OT but there we have the degenerate disgusting SLC showing just how disgustingly degenerate SLC can be.

Marty, Kennedy was no saint, but he was not depraved and/or dishonest like Gee Dubs and Cheney.

Libs/Dems don't "lie", because they have no values and no "right or wrong" instinct.

Everything is "gray", not black and white, and everything is up to one's "interpretation".

Libs/Dems keep generational poverty in place with Social "Security".

See my website:
=============================
www.socialsecurityisascam.com

WITHOUT the ball and chain of Social Security, and I would even say, MANDATORY IRA accounts for all WORKERS (NOT paid by the taxpayers (i.e. government handouts ala Hillary's latest canard)) that actually EARN INTEREST on those accounts, even a WORKER who makes $30,000 their WHOLE career would be well off after working 40 years, (18-58), and saving ONLY 5% of their salary per year and WOULD NOT NEED the scam/ripoff of Social Security.

Try this website:

http://www.math.com/students/calculators/source/compound.htm

Years = 40
Yield (rate of return) = 10%
Initial Balance = $0 (Start with NOTHING)
Monthly Contribution = $125 (5% of $30,000 salary)

Total = $790,509.94
====================

But what do libs/dems offer for "solutions" to keep people poor and the scam going?

1) Raise the age people can finally collect their OWN money past age 67!!! (If you live that long...)

2) CUT Benefits (Means testing)...If those of us who smartly invested because we knew 40 years before we retired that Social Security is a scam and would leave us poor and relying on "generous" politicians, have a house and some income after retiring, libs and dems will NOT ALLOW us to collect OUR Social Security "benefits", but hand it over to the government to those who "really need it..." Pure MARXISM...

3) RAISE the FICA TAX rate from the current 6.2% (that is 12.4% INCLUDING the Employer's "match")
to 9% (that is 18% INCLUDING the employer's "match")

The United States is on the course to bankruptcy and Socialism/tyranny, and the uneducated (Many of the Democrat Party constituents), and by uneducated, I don't mean high school dropouts.

In fact, many are COLLEGE graduates who were indoctrinated with liberalism, as I do not have a college degree, but I am educated in the INDISPUTABLE facts about finacial matters...

Libs & Dems can whine and moan about Bush, but he is not running in 2008, and libs/dems just don't despise Bush, they despise what the United States was founded on - Individual libery, religious freedom, and the basic tenets of Human Nature, where people strive to be wealthy, live comfortably, have children, keep government out their paychecks and their private lives.

Libs/dems "care" about the poor? Bullsh*t....
That is the greatest LIE of all...

KNOW HILLARY / KNOW MARXISM
NO HILLARY / NO MARXISM

wow, that is an amazing troll you caught Matt. I don't know who this Bernard Russelman is, but he sure is a grade A idiot. 10% a year eh? Please, share your info on this savings account that gets 10% a year in interest, for I would like to put my life savings into it. Is it FDIC insured?

Super how this moron posts crap that isn't even related to the topic at hand. I think the only people left in the Republican party are the crazies like Bertie here.

"I think we didn't find out about JFK's infidelity until after he was already dead. That makes a big difference. We tend to forgive those who have cheated in the past must more easily than we can accept those who are currently cheating."

Except the post was about THE PRESS and the press certainly knew about JFK's cheating (with mafia girlfriends no less) and gave him a pass on it. And that's the point. The public wasn't having the vapors about Clinton and Monica, it was the press. And Sally Quinn's husband Ben Bradlee certainly knew about JFK's shenanigans. Then again, as is well known, ol' Sal got her husband by getting under his desk and fellating him (even though he was, at the time, married to another woman.) And then she went on the become the wife of the editor of the WashPost and got to write her now infamous story about the DC "outrage" over Clinton. I don't think these people even see the irony or the hypocrisy when they look at themselves in the mirror. In fact, I wonder if Sally saw Ben Bradlee's semen on the sides of her mouth when she looked in the mirror back in the days when she was fellatin him under his desk?

Bush on TVP Poland, 5/29/2003:

We found the weapons of mass destruction.

but no, that wasn't really a lie. i'd say it was more of a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive.

I don't know who this Bernard Russelman is, but he sure is a grade A idiot. 10% a year eh?

************************************************
==> freddiemac, you have a lot of learnin' to do...

************************************************
Please, share your info on this savings account that gets 10% a year in interest, for I would like to put my life savings into it.
************************************************

Only pathetic, uneducated, dumb people who think they are actually "intelligent", such as Democrat/Liberal constituents (that would be voters to you) put ANY savings into a savings account.

Inflation is usually around 3.5% per year, and savings accounts MIGHT give you that, then you have to pay taxes on the interest you earn.
You probably LOSE money over time.

With Social Security, you DEFINITELY lose money over time.

freddiemac, you buffoon, I am talking about INVESTING in Stocks, Mutual Funds, etc.

Did you ever see a wealthy person (you know, the type of people you envy and are jealous of) purchase their mansion and their yacht from savings accounts and Social Security? Of course not, genius.

Take ExxonMobil, whose returns, with dividends reinvested and the the market value of the stock increasing each year earns ME and average of 14% since 1987...

10%?!? That was just an EXAMPLE...

Savings accounts?!?! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

************************************************
Is it FDIC insured?

************************************************

Only a democrat/liberal looks to a government agency to pay for their bank account after it folds up or disappears in a bank robbery or whatever.

Fortunately, they only insure up to $100,000 per account, which probably covers most democrat/liberal voters, whereas my ExxonMobil stock will be worth WELL OVER over $3,000,000 in 16 years.

You listen to democrat/liberals' words of doom and gloom, and you accept their mantra of mediocrity, and as the old adage says "YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW"...

Yglesias: Good looking out, I see you.

"Can you point to a particular "lie" you are offended by Matt.

Posted by Dave"

'We don't torture'

Sorry Dave but this counts as a lie. Changing the definition of torture doesn't count. Causing physical discomfort is, by any definition, torture and no slimy declaration to allow physical distress changes that fact.

"why is JFK revered if Presidential infidelity so damn awful?"

Martyr effect? Sex appeal? Sexy Corpse Effect?

Comment-

I disagree: there is a good deal more evidence to suggest that Kennedy was a good deal more depraved than Bush or Cheney are, and George W. Bush's style of governing (and his personality abd background) is actually quite similar to JFK's. The big difference seems to be that GWB doesn't have JFK's libido.

JFK was at least as dishonest as GWB and Cheney, and every bit as secretive.

I agree with MY that the article leaves a lot of things unexplained. I find it particularly strange that the members of the Washington establishment keep on referring to Washington as a "town" or "village" rather than recognizing that they live in a city. It's as though the vast numbers of D.C. residents who are not part of the Washington elete don't exist for these people.

The only hypothesis I can come up with is that in most cities the political leaders have to pay attention to the average city resident in order to get elected. The most powerful people in these cities are either political leaders or people who interact with political leaders. In Washington, D.C., most politicians are elected by voters outside the city, so that connection to the average city resident isn't there.

Fortunately, they only insure up to $100,000 per account, which probably covers most democrat/liberal voters, whereas my ExxonMobil stock will be worth WELL OVER over $3,000,000 in 16 years.

In 16 years, the valuta in my wallet might become a billion. You want to buy my wallet's contents?

Only a democrat/liberal looks to a government agency to pay for their bank account after it folds up or disappears in a bank robbery or whatever.

Well, that sure leaves the recent bail out of the mortgage business a mystery.

Man, the "Bush is too stupid to be a liar" defense is really, really tired.


Comments closed November 13, 2007.

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