« Fact of the Day | Main | Propaganda of the Deed »

Last Time Around

10 Nov 2007 06:03 pm

Tim Lee makes the excellent point that the country already has some experience with the All Discretion to the Executive model of electronic surveillance that the GOP, the Blue Dog Caucus, The Washington Post and others seem so eager to implement:

Martin Luther King was the most famous of the dozens of anti-war activists, civil rights leaders, journalists, and other undesirables whose communications were bugged by the Johnson and Nixon administration. There's no evidence that the Bush administration has done anything like that. But if we eliminate meaningful judicial oversight of the executive branch's surveillance activities, there's every reason to think that a future administration will.

And of course the absence of evidence about abusive uses of the illegal surveillance program may say more about our general ignorance of the program than about the administration's probity. We know that the "rendition" program has been against innocent people and to extract false confessions designed to bolster bogus administration talking points about Iraq/al-Qaeda links, so there's plenty of reason to worry. But even if Bush has conducted his secret illegal surveillance in the most ethical possible way to conduct secret illegal surveillance, Tim's right to say that future administrations almost certainly won't. Nixon's gross abuses built on a platform of surveillance that grew slowly-but-surely over the decades across several different administrations.

Photo by Flickr user djbrady used under a Creative Commons license

Share This

Comments (27)

Every member of Congress is monitored, bugged, tapped. Every major journalist. Every member of the administration. Judges, business executives, regulatory bodies, all of them. To assume otherwise is foolish. There's already testimony nothing is filtered, no warrants are asked for, it all is merely vacuumed up and sent to the NSC, the CIA, the FBI and who knows whom else. Tin foil hat territory? Nah, just the safe bet on what's happening.

Martin Luther King was not murdered by the Nixon administration: he was murdered nine months before Nixon took office. Try the Kennedy and Johnson administrations.

"We know that the "rendition" program has been against innocent people and to extract false confessions designed to bolster bogus administration talking points about Iraq/al-Qaeda links, so there's plenty of reason to worry."

What foolishness! So the US government deliberately targets inncocent people to snatch off the street in order to extract false confessions as a matter of policy? Ludicrious. Has the US government snatched innocent people off the street by mistake? Yes. Does the US government want false confessions to bolster adminstration talking points? No. Remind me if Ramsi al Yuseff was part of this program?

Have we killed innocent people by mistake? Yes. Did we want to kill innocent people by mistake? No. War is hell. It is better to wage it ruthlessly and quickly as mistakes and human error are part and parcel of the process. Remember that the next time your members of congress are voting for resolutions authorizing the "use of force" or whatever watered down title they want to give it.

Have we killed innocent people by mistake? Yes. Did we want to kill innocent people by mistake? No. War is hell. It is better to wage it ruthlessly and quickly as mistakes and human error are part and parcel of the process.

What war is it that you're referring to, exactly? I hope it's not the mythical "War on Terror". That "war" will never end. Ever. That means that our social order is now perpetual war, with everything that goes with it. I think I remember someone writing about that...

One interesting common factor that Scooter and Judy "Kneepads" Miller shared was paper notetaking: Judy favored notebooks, and Scooter favored three-ring binders. It's almost like they didn't trust electronic media. For some reason.

I love danceswithgoats oh-so-teenaged comment that it's better to wage war "quickly and ruthlessly."

Two words:

Tora bora.

See, the problem with a quick war is that sure, you get a pop in the polls--which didn't net out well for George the First, when you think about it--but you can't bleed enough out of the Treasury into the pockets of your cronies--or put all those Continuity of Government rules into place and get rid of all that pesky Constitutional stuff. To really make a war work for you, you need time.

Troubled teen danceswithgoats writes:


Yes. Does the US government want false confessions to bolster adminstration talking points? No.

Elsewhere at the Atlantic, Andrew Sullivan writes:

I have a clear conscience on it. I didn't intend evil. I thought in advance it was a just war. I believed the evidence procured, I now know, from torture, that Saddam had contacts with al Qaeda.

Since we now--and the dirty fucking hippies knew from the word go--that the Saddam/AQ connection was false, this sure looks like torture to extract a talking point to me.

But then, torture is now pro-life...

(a) Absence of evidence is not thereby evidence of absence.

(b) It's not prima faciae plausible that the administration would push for these powers and then not use them. The burden of proof is on the one who claims they HAVEN'T.

One mistake would be to assume that the average Republican political figure views MLK Jr. as an admirable figure of U.S. history who shouldn't have been wiretapped, other than as a troublemaker who is only worth quoting when they find that "content of one's character" phrase useful.

Others have made the same point, but I'll make it again. Considering that there is no plausible reason that the administration would not want to get warrants ex post surveillance, as FISA allows it to do, unless they were spying on people they shouldn't be, we should assume they are spying on journalists and their political opponents. I honestly can't believe that no Democrats have explicitly accused them of this, or at least made the point quite loudly that this is what they're worried about. (Maybe they have and I missed it, but if I missed it clearly the point was not made with sufficient vehemence.)

"Does the US government want false confessions to bolster adminstration talking points? No."

Tom Ridge has said that when he was running Homeland Security during the 2004 campaign, the rest of the administration would want to raise the terror alert levels for what he saw as no real reason. These events just happened to coincide with major Kerry campaign happenings and the alerts have become less common since the election. So far the administration has given us proof of what plots exactly? Trying to take down the Brooklyn Bridge with blowtorches?

One mistake would be to assume that the average Republican political figure views MLK Jr. as an admirable figure of U.S. history who shouldn't have been wiretapped

Well, I don't consider him that much of an admirable figure, and I still FON't think he should have been wiretapped.

Isn't it interesting, though, that when he campaigned for Johnson's welfare programs, and for Johnson's heavy-handed antidiscrimination laws, and the like, he wasn't assassinated, but after he spoke out against Johnson's war, he was.

I see The rampaging paranoia in this thread as a very good omen.

Well, I don't consider him that much of an admirable figure...

Well, that just goes to show you. I view him as a man who completed the incomplete project of political democracy begun by the founding fathers, which up until the movement he ended up leading pushed a reluctant government into action, remained at best a semi-democracy, and a tyranny for a large section of its population.

Isn't it interesting, though, that when he campaigned for Johnson's welfare programs, and for Johnson's heavy-handed antidiscrimination laws, and the like, he wasn't assassinated, but after he spoke out against Johnson's war, he was.

Posted by Glaivester

No, it's not all that 'interesting' -- if one means by that surprising -- that a civil rights leader was killed precisely when he turned from social integration into the existing power structure of the nation to actually beginning to lead a political movement against the war hawks and for labor agitation.

As a matter of fact, it's exactly the kind of person you'd expect that crazy anti-Communist maniacs would want to assassinate.

But then, for many people "Democrat" and "LBJ" are the same thing as "the left", so it all mixes together. So maybe you've got people out there thinking that J. Edgar Hoover was also some sort of Johnsonite liberal, whereas I like other sensible people see an entire structure of a repressive apparatus that easily stretches across the tiny 'divide' of Democratic / Republican party identification.

The national Terror Alert Level hasn't changed since May 30, 2003, when it was changed from Orange to Yellow.

croatoan: The site you link to lists several changes in the terror alert level since 2003.

I take it you are making some kind of distinction between "national" and other terror alerts. If so, you might want to make that point explicit, and explain why it is relevant. Otherwise, your post seems a bit . . . deceptive.

As a matter of fact, it's exactly the kind of person you'd expect that crazy anti-Communist maniacs would want to assassinate.

"Crazy anti-Communist maniacs" is kind of like saying "crazy anti-Nazi maniacs."

LBJ liked consolidating power to the federal government. He liked the civil rights movement when it helped him do this, disliked it when it didn't. Bush, in my opinion, is just a Republican version of LBJ.

"Crazy anti-Communist maniacs" is kind of like saying "crazy anti-Nazi maniacs."

No, it isn't. The pathetic excuse of "anti-Communism" was used to justify any degree of repression and subversion by the federal and local governments and in U.S. foreign policy. Only on the rarest of rarest occasions did the term have anything to do with actual interventions by foreign Communist governments in U.S. affairs. Similarly the pathetic "anti-Communist" charge was used to justify overturning democratically elected governments throughout the world, such as Guatemala's government.

(Thank god that the rural Mayan population finally elected an actual humanitarian Guatemalan president over one of Reagan's genocidal tyrant military officer friends, a man who actually served on Guatemala's peace commission and who may finally begin to reign in the former pro-genocidalists.)

Now, it would be similar if there were a history of excessively liberal governments breaking up, spying on, and committing agent provacateur activities against right wing or conservative activists under the banner of "anti-Nazism", but since that didn't happen, there is no comparison.

Or maybe if the FBI had been sent to raid Goldwater political groups because their apparent strategy of appealing to disaffected conservative whites who were angered by the Democrats' support of civil rights for blacks were supposedly "Nazi" activities.

That didn't happen either.

The history is, in fact, very much the opposite, with a tremendous amount of historic cooperation by US and local intelligence and secret policies agencies in cooperation with neo-nazi or white supremacist groups.

Now, I know there are some crazy types that think that because Stalin's Soviet Union was bad that this gives the US federal government the right to have done anything it damn well pleased against anyone that any crazy right wingers thought was a little too "leftist", but then, there are a lot of crazy people in the world.

El Cid - One mistake would be to assume that the average Republican political figure views MLK Jr. as an admirable figure of U.S. history who shouldn't have been wiretapped.

Galivester - Well, I don't consider him that much of an admirable figure, and I still FON't think he should have been wiretapped.

3 reasons existed to wiretap the One Perfect American and Hero to us All, Saint Martin.

1. Investigators found him engaged in crimes ranging from drug use, frequent use of prostitutes, diversion of money to a non-profit (SCLC) for personal use, violence against women and payments of "hush money" to his battered women from SCLC funds. Much of that was documented by other civil rights leaders in later books and interviews as admitted minor flaws with the Great Man...Ample grounds for wiretapping warrants existed from the perspective of assembling a case on his criminal activities - but the times were such under JFK, RFK, and Johnson - that they didn't need to tell J. Edgar to bother.

2. King had active communists loyal to the Soviet Union as his closest Advisor - Stanley Levinson - and personal assistant - Jake O'Dell.
Much of the civil rights movement in the early 60s was being steered by Jewish communists in NYC that had set up, funded, and continued to lead and provide legal muscle in many black groups inc the NAACP, SCLC, SNCC. Levinson, in particular, who was also King's moneyman, ghostwriter - had contacts in Russia. As King was more friendly to Soviet foreign policy than America's - he could have easily been surveilled under warrant as a security threat given his links. Again, the times were that no one needed to bother with warrants given what FDR did in WWII and his successors like JFK and TRuman did.

3. The 3rd reason is that King had played a Good Negro/Bad Negro game after race riots heated up. Capitulate to his group's demands or "he wouldn't be responsible" for the repercussions of city leaders rejecting "the non-violent" alternative to the burning city blocks and race murders that King "of course deplored". That again, strongly warranted his wiretapping to see if he was in communication with black agitators he often met with that did want cities to burn and Whitey to die.

All in all, not only reasons for wiretapping but also the reason King's reverers have put Kings FBI files under legal lock and key away from historians for what will be over 50 years. The only major historical figure where details are locked away or sold by the page by his family. And some of the stuff is so bad that the King heirs are pushing to extend the prohibition on anyone looking at King data they don't approve of.

I was wondering when neo-Confederate Jew-fearing Chris Ford would show up to bleat how that damn Commie bastard philanderer MLK Jr. ruined a beautiful society with his outside agitatin'.

The truth hurts. Which explains El Cid's ad hominems as the hurt he feels as his myths of MLK and peaceful communism are exposed.

We now have a consensus in the West - in that the majority have bought into the Black Book of Communism's argument that they were as lethal and malignant as the Nazis.

And, as King is exposed, America's most over-rated historical figure is more and more revealed as a pretty shady character that warranted legal authorities watching him on 3 major fronts: Crimes, ties to Soviet-loyal Communists, ties with black arsonists and rioters.

No truth has been exposed, no crazy accusations by weirdos about MLK crimes and shady Soviet links have become history, and no amount of loud repeating the rather widely accepted facts that Stalin and Pol Pot were really really bad will change even one person's perception about either MLK Jr. or the misuse of the repressive apparatuses of the federal government falsely in the name of "anti-Communism".

Similarly, few people see the entire Republican Party or the Bush family as being a Nazi-connected movement, despite the vast numbers of fascist sympathizers in their ranks during the fascist heyday.

The nut squad and the National Review refugees and the FrontPageMag stinkoes can crow that they finally 'exposed' their great enemy MLK Jr., and his shameful attack on the gentlemanly culture of honor so present in the historical South which surely we all miss grandly, but no one outside these tiny, shrinking, crazy and heavily subsidized circles wastes their time with these games.

MLK Jr. finally made this country a political democracy, which it wasn't, and people realize that, and no amount of pouting by Lost-Causers affects that.

That's why Republicans used to quote MLK Jr. all the time about "the content of our character" so that they can justify their hatred of affirmative action programs, because they know that however much they hate it, he is every bit a secular hero of American history as any other -- given that most people aren't infants and demand that any American hero be their fantasy of Jesus and Superman combined.

No ad hominems are needed, but sometimes they are fun when it comes to bizarro nut cases like Chris Ford, who regularly whines here in his fake manly fashion about the nobility of his loony neo-Confederate and Jew-fearing creeds.

That said, let's give a hand to the StormFront race war types for bringing fake FBI generated disinfo about King Jr. into the web age!

From "Dissing the King", Salon

...a Web site bearing [MLK Jr's] name is being run and maintained by Stormfront, a white supremacy group.

While the opening page of martinlutherking.org may look friendly, its content ... aims to debunk King's character, denying his status as an ordained minister, attacking his academic career, spreading tales of his womanizing and his alleged ties to communist groups. It even attacks his name.

"Well friends, he is not a legitimate reverend, he is not a bona fide Ph.D., and his name isn't really 'Martin Luther King Jr.'" reads a section titled "The Truth About Martin Luther King Jr.: Why he fought and who helped in the fight." It goes on to say, "What's left? Just a sexual degenerate, an America-hating Communist, and a criminal betrayer of even the interests of his own."

A link with the even more misleading title, "An Excerpt from 'The King Holiday and Its Meaning': Bring the Dream to life for someone you know: An educational tool" goes to a quote from North Carolina Sen. Jesse Helms' congressional testimony, which alleges that "King associated with identified members of the Communist Party of the United States."...

...Another example of the insidious mislabeling on the site is a section called "The Death of the Dream: The Day Martin Luther King Was Shot." This section uses alleged FBI documents purporting to show that the evening after King visited the U.S. Supreme Court to listen in as lawyers argued New York Times vs. Sullivan, he was in hotel room partying with three white women. The site describes "the clinking of glasses and the sounds of illicit sex." It alleges that King cried out "I'm f--ing for God" and "I'm not a Negro tonight!" The site goes on to say that King brutally beat one of the women...

...Kerry Taylor, an assistant editor with the Martin Luther King papers project at Stanford University, didn't know about the site. But he wasn't surprised by it. "There is a ton of nonsense on the Web and most people can see the difference between stuff that has veracity and information that attacks," said Taylor.

Taylor called the site's content "propaganda" and debunked many of the site's allegations as complete fabrications...

Taylor also addressed the most damaging and long-lasting allegation that has dogged King for years, which was that he was a communist. "He spoke consistently against communism," said Taylor. "He was open to some socialist ideas but as a Christian, he literally thought that communism and Christianity weren't compatible."

...The FBI once considered King "the most dangerous Negro in America." The agency went on a smear campaign against King and other black leaders and militants in the infamous COINTELPRO operation, which spied on leaders of the civil rights and other political movements in the 1960s and early '70s. Agents tracked King's movements and planted negative stories about him in the press. They even encouraged King to commit suicide in an anonymous note to him.

"What you have to understand is that the FBI material was manufactured," said Taylor. "J. Edgar Hoover was targeting King. So while there is FBI evidence that he was a womanizer, you have to understand where the information is coming from. It has to be weighed very carefully. It was part of a campaign to attack King. It needs to be considered in that light."

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2000/01/24/mlk/print.html


But, really, the nice StormFront people are just trying to protect America from falsely honoring MLK Jr. so that we don't end up advocating Stalinist collectivist farming, Socialist Realism, and Khmer Rouge labor camps.

Hey, I'm not a big fan of interventionism, so I certainly won't argue that we did a lot of shady things in the name of "anti-Communism."

The only thing I did not like was what I (perhaps incorrectly) saw as the suggestion that Communism was not a bad thing and that to fear it was silly.

My real problem with King is that I tend to be against anti-discrimination laws that apply to private businesses. I also think that the "non-discrimination above all" principle is causing us a lot of problems, including the attempt to replace the U.S. population through immigration and the push for de facto quotas, as well as denial that IQ is important (which is based on the fact that they have not been able to develop an IQ test where all ethnicities perform equally well).

I do not have a problem with the repeal of state-sponsored discrimination, however, and do not have problems with the Voting Rights Act.

My real problem with King is that I tend to be against anti-discrimination laws that apply to private businesses.

Translation? 'I don't respect MLK Jr. because now they have to let the n***ers into the movie theaters'?

In general, I just want to expand this point:

As we all know, but often don't clarify, most people who claim to have some sort of problems with Martin Luther King Jr. do not, in fact, have any real complaint with the man, but with his mission.

However, since they publicly fail by disputing his mission, they aim to dispute the man.

Had at any moment the authoritarians in the state and local police forces (FBI, state forces) had a real problem with MLK Jr. the man, they could have undercut him and made him historically irrelevant.

All they had to do was push for their preferred leader or organization to fight more effectively for political and economic and voting rights for African Americans.

They didn't do that, of course, because they didn't dispute MLK Jr. the man; they disputed what he and his fellow civil rights activists wanted.

Maybe African Americans shouldn't have been so loyal to MLK Jr. that philandering Commie corrupt fake name bastard; and maybe instead they should have followed the conservative, Southern, white, anti-Communist led organization which was fighting for civil and political rights for African Americans.

I forget the name of that leading organization; what was it again?

@El Cid:

Excellent posts today, thanks.

cequi homebound murdering microflora alexanders binational granitification factorial
http://cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/04/01/singapore.fashion.reut/index.html >Gaultier fashion for free in Singapore museum
http://www.stadt-barth.de

cequi homebound murdering microflora alexanders binational granitification factorial
http://www.thehotnutcompany.com/ >The Hot Nut Company
http://www.patrickevan.com


Comments closed November 24, 2007.

Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.