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Unity

29 Nov 2007 08:21 am

It's possible that I know even less about the details of FISA legislation than Joe Klein does, so unlike him I've decided to let that issue primarily be covered by people who know what they're talking about. That said, it's clear to me from reading this post that his views on this subject aren't being driven by anything related to FISA at all. Rather, his point is:

Finally, if we can’t rebuild the non-toxic atmosphere of bipartisan cooperation that served the country through most of its history few, if any, of the reforms most Democrats favor will have any chance of passage, even with a Democratic President and Congress. We simply need to get past the cynicism and partisan mistrust cultivated by the Bush Administration.

This, however, conflates two slightly separate issues. One is the cynicism of the Bush administration. The constant lying and disregard for the law. We really do need to "get past" all that, but obviously such getting past can't be accomplish by the opposition party's bold acts of will. At a minimum, you would actually need to get rid of the cynical Bush administration personnel and have them replaced by other people.

More broadly, though, it's unfair to Bush to blame him for the lack of the sort of "bipartisan cooperation" we saw in the past, and it's equally unfair to blame Democrats for not reviving it. Bipartisan competition will tend to be rarer when the parties are ideologically coherent. And that's what we have right now -- almost every Democrat in congress is more liberal than almost every Republican. That makes bipartisan cooperation difficult. The roots of this polarization, however, are structural and not really lamentable. The old era of bipartisan cooperation was grounded in the parties having substantial ideological overlap and that, in turn, was a consequence of Jim Crow and the existence of a weird one-party state in the apartheid South where the one party was the Democrats even though the region was generally more conservative in ideological terms. That era's not going to come back and we shouldn't want it to come back, even if we deem certain aspects of its passing to be lamentable.

But most of all, we shouldn't urge the congress to take courses of action that are wrong on the merits out of a deluded sense that doing so might revive a past era of bipartisanship. The causes of these things are structural. And the structural set-up of a situation in which a bipartisan FISA compromise could be reached are pretty clear. You'd need a Democratic President. No Democratic President is going to be dogmatic about refusing to accept vast new executive powers. At the same time, given the nature of the political coalitions, a Democrat wouldn't be seeking to block compromise and thereby gain a wedge issue. Congressional Republicans will see their authoritarianism tempered by partisanship. But those circumstances don't exist, so a bipartisan solution looks unlikely. But acts of unilateral surrender don't end political polarization -- 12 Democrats voted for Bush's tax cuts in 2001, several Democrats voted for the 2003 Medicare bill, a whole bumper crop of Democrats voted for the war in 2002, etc. -- but the structural roots of partisan polarization remained in place.

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Comments (18)

It wasn't just the conservative Southern Democrats who made bipartisanship possible. It was the liberal Rockefeller Republicans as well. Both are virtually extinct at this point.

Paul Krugman lays this out quite nicely in his new book.

"...few, if any, of the reforms most Democrats favor will have any chance of passage, even with a Democratic President and Congress." ...JK

I find your post unresponsive.

1) How does the Democratic Pres + Congress get anything past the cloture rules and an obstructionist opposition, if not by agonizing and humiliating appeasement

or

2) If progressives can't get anything decent passed, including budgets and justices, how do we play the politics to get to 60 progressive Senators or whatever.

or

3) Is there an option not mentioned or unmentionable

More broadly, though, it's unfair to Bush to blame him for the lack of the sort of "bipartisan cooperation" we saw in the past

Call me paranoid, but that's what you are supposed to think when reading this. Because in the larger context of the article, JoeKlein is arguing that the Dems. should "compromise" for the sake of bipartisanship and the larger goal of accomplishing stuff.

Of course, you are smart enough to realize that JoeKlein's argument is bunk. But most people aren't. They'll read this and come away thinking "if even the liberal Joe Klein -- who has a Jew, er, French name -- thinks that the Dems should compromise, they really should compromise".

One of the greatest challenges we liberals have in the public discourse is being able to define ourselves and our positions. And one of the greatest sub-challenges here is that a large swath of the so-called liberal media feels a need to keep up their liberal bona fides by inserting statements like this into what they write ... thus allowing the Republican noise machine to keep having traction with their "liberal media" working the refs.

It's all a viscious cycle, and it can't be an accident, can it?

*

Indeed Steve ... however, am I the only one who, given the history of the Democratic party, finds the "we need to return to the good old days of bipartisanship when Dems. cooperated with the GOP because the Dems. weren't so, um, liberal" crowd to be a little, er, creepy?

Dammit, Republicans and maybe even Joe Klein know a little American history. Like the 1850s. Like 1876 and the surrender on Reconstruction. Like 100 years of Jim Crow. Like all the concessions and compromises FDR had to make to Dixiecrats in his first term.

They understand that an intransigent but politically secure minority, under our Constitution, can shut the country down. This is by Founder design, and why the lawyers at Balkinization dream of a move to a Parliamentary system and a pony.

It is always the same intransigent minority, and the problem has taken the country to chaos at least twice.

From the perspective of most European countries, partisanship in the US is largely just a matter of style. I think that's largely true. No one here can name a single major US policy, foreign or domestic, that didn't depend on significant support from the other side of the aisle. Social Security, progressive income tax, the GI Bill and most other education funding, civil rights, containment of communism, invading Iraq--you name it, and it got broad bi-partisan support when the chips were down.

Most Americans don't identify themselves as either Democrats or Republicans. Most mix and match their policy choices from both sides of the partisan divide depending on the particular issue--lots of us are for stem-cell research AND school vouchers, decent healthcare AND tax policies that encourage growth, etc. It is only a relatively small, if disproportionately noisy, faction in both parties that view the others as Devil-spawn enemies of The Good, and most voters are disgusted with that attitude.

It is a matter of vested interest for the party leaders, and the media class they so closely resemble in class background, education, and experience, to dramatize the differences. A growing segment of the public is wise to the scam.

Robert Powell is as clueless as he is out of touch. Have you ever heard of WWRD - What Would Reagan Do? or Enemy of the Week on Fox News? The viewers eat that shit up. Yes, this mindset has been driven from the top down through a massive, long-term effort to construct a group of people who vote for a Republican Party that then shapes the news, information and media themes they hear. The problem is, they've been totally effective. The Republicans have a group of about 30% of Americans whose identity as Republicans is damn near untouchable.

Rare are the moments that we can actually pare down Republican support to that 30% and so its really difficult to get a governing coalition together that doesn't have to listen to the demands of a group of politicians that are totally divorced from political and economic reality.

It is true that our Constitution makes it difficult to pass legislation without some minority support. In this system bipartisanship is a dependent variable and it makes little sense to bemoan its absence. Since bipartisanship is necessary to pass legislation, we should expect to see it emerge during times when the public wants legislation passed. During other times, politicians can revert to partisanship which is probably the more natural state.

The post-WWII bipartisan era dates from the late 40s-early 50s and lasted until the late 80s-early 90s - primarily an era of Democratic party dominance in Congress. Since when does that equate to "non-toxic atmosphere of bipartisan cooperation that served the country through most of its history"? That didn't exist before WWII, that didn't exist throughout most of the 19th century, except for the short-lived "Era of Good Feelings" during the Monroe Administration. And it certainly didn't exist in the Federalist period.

Who's rewriting history???

Yes and no. It's true that the shifting of the South ( and the end of the cold war, and blahblahblah) resulted in more "ideologically coherent" parties and thus ended a brief bipartisan era. But it's also true that in the past 15-20 years, the Republican Party has used wedge politics to gain and retain power -- and that the Bush administration has taken wedge politics to an absurd degree. This is not to mention the lying (er, intellectual dishonesty?) and obfuscation that is part and parcel of the Republican "ideology" (i.e., the hiding, and advancing, a plutocratic agenda behind bitch-slap politics and highminded catchphrases like "tax relief" and "family values" and "individual responsibility" . . . (and, of course, the Dems and the media deserve a good share of the blame for allowing this to happen).

So, anyhow, I'm not sure I have a point here. But I'd be happy as a clam if we ever had a situation where there were two parties with competing ideologies, fighting it out on a moreorless level playing field.

Is anybody here over 30? If so, think carefully to see if you can identify the supposed "era of bipartisan cooperation"! To claim that there was once such a thing -- and that "cynicism and partisan mistrust" are somehow a new phenomenon -- is just another example of how completely disconnected Klein is from reality.

This is worth pointing out, Matt, because a standard Republican talking point holds that they've been civil and bipartisan all along, but Democrats consumed with "BDS" have created a new politics of hate. It's important to avoid accepting their revisions of history as premises for any argument.

I'd be willing to get past the rancorous partisanship we've experienced for the last fifteen years if Joe Klein and the rest of the lickspittle press agrees to step aside from their jobs and positions of power because they aided and abetted the Republican partisanship. That should be easy.

What about it, Joe? Step up and be a man. Or, do we have to acknowlege that the sun will rise in the west before Klein or the rest of the current scum in the MSM leave their jobs and positions of power and influence to further the national interest. His only interest is his own and he now sees that he's screwed. His TIME overlords know it even better.

re: bob mcmanus

"2) If progressives can't get anything decent passed, including budgets and justices, how do we play the politics to get to 60 progressive Senators or whatever."

Nuke 'em, just like the Republicans threatened to do to the Democrats when 6 GOP judicial nominees couldn't get confirmed. Fool me once...

"[I]t's unfair to Bush to blame him for the lack of the sort of "bipartisan cooperation" we saw in the past . . ." It is true that it's naive to blame it all on Bush, i.e., to think that but for him it would be peachy ken, when there are real ideological chasms. However, he has personally cultivated his role of the divider with such relish against the "Democrat" party, that he has exacerbated the underlying divide. Not in the least because, smirking or not, he continues to assert the flat out lie that he and the republicans are trying to be "bipartisan" but are prevented by the partisanship of the Democrats.

Come on, Mr. Yglesias. After all of the years you have spent commenting on politics, how can you be so naive.

Any Democratic president who asks for a tenth of the powers that Bush has grabbed will immediately be branded a dictatorial traitor by the Republicans. This claim will be repeated as fact by the press and immediately become established beltway wisdom. It will the become a part of the Republican attempt to drive him or her from office, which (as with Clinton) will begin before the inaugural and will, somehow or other, cultivate in a campaign for impeachment.

That's the way Conservatives work, and if you think this is some sort of new phenomenon, I suggest you read about the vicious smear campaigns run by conservative parties against the leaders of the Weimar Republic.

The only real difference in conservatism today is that conservative leaders (Reagan, if that needs translating) have seen to it that the overwhelming majority of the press is controlled by right wing forces, and there is no meaningful voice of truth to speak out against them.

Posters above: thanks for making my point. You folks are for the most part representative of a sliver of the left side of the electorate. For most of us out here in Normal Land, Ken Starr and Howard Dean are essentially the same guy. Both major parties are full of shit, just in different ways. The people that will win the next election will be the ones who recognize, and act on, the fact that most Americans do not buy the assertions of moral superiority put forward with similar zealotry by repubs and dems alike. Get a clue.

From what I've read over the past few years, one of the major reasons for the polarization of right and left has been the gerrymandering of political districts into safe seats of both colors.

Both sides end up with the most politically entrenched candidates as neither has to appeal to the middle-of-the road voter during the primaries.

The only answer is an independent electoral organization deciding boundaries on purely population-weighted boundaries. This will only happen, I suspect some time after the turkeys have voted for Thanksgiving.

From what I've read over the past few years, one of the major reasons for the polarization of right and left has been the gerrymandering of political districts into safe seats of both colors.

Both sides end up with the most politically entrenched candidates as neither has to appeal to the middle-of-the road voter during the primaries.

The only answer is an independent electoral organization deciding boundaries on purely population-weighted boundaries. This will only happen, I suspect, some time after the turkeys have voted for Thanksgiving.

Both of DaveB's posts are correct--there is a structural fix for a major part of the problem, which is surely gerrymandering. I hope he's wrong about the likelihood of the reform, which would be resisted by entrenched pols on both sides but would be wildly popular with the electorate if they ever got consulted on the subject.


Comments closed December 13, 2007.

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