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Victory in Iraq

25 Nov 2007 09:36 am

As the pressure builds on war critics to "acknowledge" the progress that's been made in Iraq, I imagine we'll see a few more reports like this one from The New York Times:

With American military successes outpacing political gains in Iraq, the Bush administration has lowered its expectation of quickly achieving major steps toward unifying the country, including passage of a long-stymied plan to share oil revenues and holding regional elections.

It's worth noting how fundamentally illogical the idea of "military successes outpacing political gains" is. The military is a branch of the American government. The government is run by politicians and political appointees. They frame objectives and policies designed to achieve those objectives. Subsidiary branches of the government then either do or don't made progress toward achieving those objectives. The stated goals of invading Iraq were to eliminate its nuclear weapons program, which failed because there was no such program, and to turn it into a shining beacon of democracy to inspire reformers throughout the region, which also failed since Iraq has instead become a scare story autocrats use to keep elites and middle class types unified behind the regime.

After several years of failure, a new military initiative was announced -- the "surge" -- and it's goal was to create an improvement in the security situation in Baghdad which (it was hypothesized) was the necessary precondition for a political resolution to Iraq's fundamental conflicts. The surge was tried, and American casualties went up and violence stayed at the same level and then violence declined and then US casualties decline and then it turned out that the surge had failed and the political situation was the same as it had been at the beginning.

And yet despite this failure, there are lots of happy faces in Washington. Why? Well it's not because despite the lack of "political progress" we've seen plenty of "military progress." Rather, it's because the "surge" helped achieve plenty of political objectives, just not the stated ones of the mission. It has, for example, caused Democratic Party elected officials to grow more timid in their rhetoric, which makes Republicans happy and also signals good news for Democratic Party hawks in their struggles with Democratic Party doves. What's more, insofar as one of the primary unstated political goals of the war has simply been to create a never-ending American military presence in Iraq, the "surge" has generated substantial progress toward that goal.

The American political system seems to operate as if spending on defense-related ventures doesn't come at a real cost. Propose a new domestic spending initiative, and people want to hear about your offsets. If you don't have offsets, you need new taxes. And you can't raise taxes. If you want to cut taxes, you can probably get away with it, but you'll face at least some political resistance. Defense spending, though, doesn't count -- it's completely shielded from scrutiny and we think nothing of tossing $10 billion here and $10 billion there until the end of time. Thus, if some gambit succeeds in making American casualty rates decline, something like Democrat Shawn Brimley's proposal that the next president "consider plateauing at a certain level at some future point in order to continue counter-terrorism and/or an advising mission" becomes much more viable.

In late 2005 and throughout 2006, it looked like we had a situation where the American mission in Iraq was going to become untenable. In early 2007, we were promised a "surge" whose purpose was to make the American mission in Iraq unnecessary. It was going to create a security environment conducive to the creation of a political settlement, thus allowing for the withdrawal of American troops. It didn't happen. And it's not clear that anyone ever believed it would happen. Instead, it's created a situation where it now once again looks -- as it did in 2003 and 2004 -- that we might be able to stay in Iraq forever. And, of course, if you don't consider financial costs to be costs, and don't consider small numbers of casualties to be costs, and don't believe in opportunity costs, and try not to worry to much about the risk of war with Iran, and don't mind the lack of benefits except to the egos of the war's supporters, then this looks like a pretty smart policy.

And, though I think its advocates are underestimating the odds that even their goalpost-shifting will fail, I'll concede at least that it very much might work.

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Comments (25)

It very well may. But -- given that the motivator for the American domestic political behavior you talk about is the public's terror that "pulling out" will leave the US itself more vulnerable to future attacks -- I repeat that the best strategy against it is for the Dems to keep talking about the fact that it's bleeding off military resources that we are likely to need far more in OTHER places -- and on short notice.

It very well may. But -- given that the motivator for the American domestic political behavior you talk about is the public's terror that "pulling out" will leave the US itself more vulnerable to future attacks -- I repeat that the best strategy against it is for the Dems to keep talking about the fact that it's bleeding off military resources that we are likely to need far more in OTHER places -- and on short notice.

Your comments system is on the blink again, Matthew.

If it works until January 20th, 2009 it'll be somebody else's problem and therefore a success for the Bush administration.

i've noted before and i'll note again: people like matthew are getting a realtime lesson in why vietnam drove certain war opponents insane. by 1968, the public had given up on the war and it still took 6 years to end it.

as for those democrats who are unable to come to terms with the fact that the surge failed on its own merits, well, it's yet another reason why 2008 may not play out as well for the party as some think: continuously pissing off what should be your strongest supporters is about as dumb a strategy as i can imagine, and yet there we have supposed adults pursuing it.

President Bush has defined victory as "an Iraq that is peaceful, united, stable, democratic, and secure, where Iraqis have the institutions and resources they need to govern themselves justly and provide security for their country." Isn't lowering expectations an acknowledgement that we've failed?

It can't work. For the simple reason that those 140,000+ troops now in Iraq need to come home sometime, and there aren't 140,000 more to send in their place.

Yep. I should have stated Flory's point earlier: next spring we are going to have to start considerably shrinking our troop presence, and if violence kicks up again it's going to be very hard for the Bushites to conceal that fact.

On the other hand, if -- after we considerably shrink our troop presence -- violence does stay lower, the Bushites will no doubt go around trumpeting that the war was a "success" -- in which case the correct thing for the Dems to do (and indeed the only thing they can do), as I said above, is to simply point out that in this case "success" consisted of expending 5000 lives, a trillion dollars, and a huge chunk of our international credibility on replacing a Sunni dictatorship with a Shiite dictatorship (possibly with a smaller Sunni dictatorship attached to its northern flank). I think we all know by now that the prospect of actually setting up anything remotely resembling a democracy in Iraq will occur on about the same day O.J. finds the real killers -- even Krauthammer isn't pretending that anymore.

It would be helpful if Matt would at least make an attempt to get important facts straight. In Bush's speech announcing the invasion, he stated the reasons as "to disarm Iraq of wmd's, to end Saddam Hussein's support of terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people." Iglesias keeps writing things like "the stated goal was to eliminate its nuclear weapons program". This is nonsense.

Most reasonably well-informed observers were pretty sure Iraq no longer had an active nuclear program in 2003, and there were lots of experts saying so in public. The administration did not at any point attempt to refute these assertions, although most everyone knew this would be Iraq's first order of business as soon as the sanctions collapsed as was already happening. Virtually everyone, including Iraqi generals and perhaps Saddam Hussein, though Iraq retained some chemical and biological warfare agents, and as Hans Blix made clear in his final report, the Iraqis remained in flagrant material breech of their obligations to "disarm in a transparent and pro-active way". Given the obstructionism Blix documented, no one could have any confidence that playing hide-and-seek with a totalitarian police state the size of Texas would produce the desired results.

We have spent going on twenty years trying to arrange a reasonable conclusion to the war in Iraq. An Iraq in any of several possible configurations that's reasonably stable, reasonably pro-Western, at peace with its neighbors, not working on wmd's, and pumping oil, is not an unreasonable expectation. There is no organized group in that country likely to prevent such a conclusion unless we abandon the project.

Nice post Matt.

Goalpost shifting is ever in vogue.

One point that I haven't heard much mention of is to what degree the jihadis have deliberately blended back into the scenery. I know that there are Sunni elements that are taking advantage of our training and supply but the lack of news doesn't really seem to add up to more than this basic story line: "troops increased, violence dropping", which is great in the short-term, but I think we might have seen this movie before.

Finally, the 300lb gorilla in the room are still the Shia, and of course we wouldn't want to talk about that.

"Most reasonably well-informed observers were pretty sure Iraq no longer had an active nuclear program in 2003, and there were lots of experts saying so in public."

Perhaps this was true in 2003, but when it counted, in 2002, here's what then-Senator John Edwards had to say:

""Almost no one disagrees with these basic facts: that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a menace; that he has weapons of mass destruction and that he is doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons; that he has supported terrorists; that he is a grave threat to the region, to vital allies like Israel, and to the United States; and that he is thwarting the will of the international community and undermining the United Nations' credibility."

It should be painfully clear by now that Bush & Co., not being members of the "reality-based community", can define and redefine "success" progressively downward ad infinitum as long as the well-oiled echo machine trumpets loudly along, cowing the press and Democrats alike. It's not about facts on the ground. It's about perception.
Bush will kick-the-can for another thirteen months, and never let the word "lose" pollute his lips until Jan. 10 when he will proudly proclaim: "I didn't lose Iraq."

It should be painfully clear by now that Bush & Co., not being members of the "reality-based community", can define and redefine "success" progressively downward ad infinitum as long as the well-oiled echo machine trumpets loudly along, cowing the press and Democrats alike. It's not about facts on the ground. It's about perception.
Bush will kick-the-can for another thirteen months, and never let the word "lose" pollute his lips until Jan. 10 when he will proudly proclaim: "I didn't lose Iraq."

It should be painfully clear by now that Bush & Co., not being members of the "reality-based community", can define and redefine "success" progressively downward ad infinitum as long as the well-oiled echo machine trumpets loudly along, cowing the press and Democrats alike. It's not about facts on the ground. It's about perception.
Bush will kick-the-can for another thirteen months, and never let the word "lose" pollute his lips until Jan. 10 when he will proudly proclaim: "I didn't lose Iraq."

Matt doesn't get it (as usual): "The American political system seems to operate as if spending on defense-related ventures doesn't come at a real cost."

It doesn't. It costs YOU and the other idiot taxpayers. It doesn't ANYTHING to the politicians handing out YOUR money to the people who paid them campaign contributions and bribes. And it DAMN sure doesn't cost anything to the people receiving those billions (except the few morons who might actually have allowed their kids to join the military.)

Christ, when are you people going to wake up to the real nature of the state?

Scratch that question, I already know the answer.

Never.

Howard: "continuously pissing off what should be your strongest supporters is about as dumb a strategy as i can imagine, and yet there we have supposed adults pursuing it."

You know why? Because who else are you going to vote for? Republicans? Uh-uh...

So where's the threat to the Dems? You can either vote Republican or you can vote Democrat. The only thing at issue is how many Republicans vs how many Democrats - and today, the US citizenry still can't stand the Republicans.

There's no real threat to the Dems losing in 2008. They may not do any better than they did in 2006, but that's about it. The incumbents are going to stay incumbents - even assholes like Lieberman.

As we anarchists say, "No matter who you vote for, the government gets into power."

Powell: "Most reasonably well-informed observers were pretty sure Iraq no longer had an active nuclear program in 2003, and there were lots of experts saying so in public. The administration did not at any point attempt to refute these assertions, although most everyone knew this would be Iraq's first order of business as soon as the sanctions collapsed as was already happening."

Powell, you are a complete fucking clueless idiot if you think anyone here is taking anything you say seriously when you make statements like this. If you think you can just re-invent history by assertion, forget about it. It's not working.

First of all, your claim that "the administration did not at any point attempt to refute" assertions that there was a nuclear weapons program in Iraq is unbelievably fucking stupid. What part of "mushroom cloud" rhetoric didn't you hear in 2002? What part of "immediate threat" didn't you hear in 2002? Anybody who could make the statement you made above simply wasn't present in the US during 2002 or early 2003 - or is a complete fruitcake - or a deliberate fucking liar.

Second, Iraq, once it had been cleared by the IAEA of having a nuclear weapons program, would have been placed under a monitoring program which would have rendered it impossible for them to have a nuclear weapons program at any future time. That was the end goal of the inspections regime in place in 2002 and early 2003. So your notion that Saddam would have immediately resumed WMD production is bullshit.

Take this crap down the road.

Yglesias,you are about as dumb as a rock. After 9/11 America needed a place to lure these Saudi/Syrian/Iranian fanatics to their deaths. Afghanistan had already been relatively cleared out with only small numbers filtering in to be destroyed. It was too remote to attract enough replacement jihadists to stake our GWOT on for a solid victory. Saddam needed to go anyway so we got a twofer in Iraq. Granted Iraq was mishandled, but what major war hasn't been? The Bushies adapted improvised and are on the cusp of winning this thing. Since when has money mattered in a death struggle? Isn't Victory a grand thing? Why wish any other outcome?

Fred--I don't see anything in Edward's statement that changes what I wrote. Saddam WAS "doing everything in his power to get nuclear weapons". That wasn't much more than keeping his scientific establishment intact in 2002, but that was enough in the context of the language of the Resolutions, and the wide variety of other offenses past, present, and potential. The quote is a good one, among many. One of my favorites was taped from a 2002 edition of Meet the Press: "Tim, the US just isn't going to be successful in the war on terror as long a Saddam Hussein is in power in Baghdad"--Carl Levin.

Having paid a great deal of attention to Iraq since I first went there in 1991, it is frustrating to see how the easily available history of this conflict is mangled by hysterical zealots who can't tell the difference between official national policy and offhand remarks by administration officials on the Sunday talk shows. The issue in 2002 was no more "imminent danger" than it was "pre-emption". It was the importance in the post-9/11 world of removing an overt enemy totalitarianism that had dragged us into a war, then comprehensively violated the ceasefire agreement and related Chapter VII UNSC Resolutions, from the keystone state in the region producing most of the terrorists, and most of the oil we depend on to have a world economy. The rest is political rhetoric, on both sides.

“It was the importance in the post-9/11 world of removing an overt enemy totalitarianism that had dragged us into a war, then comprehensively violated the ceasefire agreement and related Chapter VII UNSC Resolutions, from the keystone state in the region producing most of the terrorists, and most of the oil we depend on to have a world economy.”

How, then, do you explain that in the pre-9/11 world the first item on the agenda of the first Bush II cabinet meeting was Iraq?

Also, “the keystone state in the region producing most of the terrorists, and most of the oil we depend on” is Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.

pbh--
1) Because Iraq was the only country on the planet with whom we were engaged in ongoing combat, that had sixteen outstanding Chapter VII Resolutions against it and counting, and that the outgoing White House's national security team had briefed as the major threat to our interests.

2) Saudi Arabia is a problem, but Iraq's record was unique (see above), and with a population of 28 million represents a different order of threat altogether.

“Iraq was the only country on the planet with whom we were engaged in ongoing combat, that had sixteen outstanding Chapter VII Resolutions against it and counting. . . .”

And the only way of dealing with this problem, according to you, was war.

Never mind repeated advice from the CIA and the UN that no WMD programs existed.

Never mind that your so-called “ongoing combat” (ie: no-fly zone patrols) cost less than $1 bil a year.

Never mind that the potentially or outright hostile countries really capable of exporting nuclear arms, Pakistan, Korea and half a dozen former Soviet Republics, continue unpoliced.

Oh no, the only way to deal with the existential “threat” posed by Iraq was total, unilateral, war.

“and that the outgoing White House's national security team had briefed as the major threat to our interests.”

Iraq was “the major threat”? That’s not how I heard it. Clinton and Berger both told Bush that Al Qaeda was a bigger concern than Iraq, that Iraq had nothing to do with international terror and that Iraq was effectively contained. Richard Clarke repeated this message daily and was ignored.

“Saudi Arabia is a problem, but Iraq's record was unique . . . , and with a population of 28 million represents a different order of threat altogether.”

Right. 28 million terrorists, according to you. A captive population, terrorized by secret police and staggering from sanctions, these are your “threat”. Not to Saddam, but to a country thousands of miles from their homes.

pbh--earnest political belief is no substitute for facts. It's more likely a hinderance to understanding than an aid.

I've got no stake in defending Bush--I voted for Gore, for Christ's sake. I do have a stake in getting the historical facts straight.

--There may have been "other ways of dealing with the problem", but it's hard to name any we hadn't already tried in the twelve years since Desert Storm, and the results were horrific for the Iraqis without showing any signs of success.

--The consensus view of the CIA and all the world's other intelligence agencies was that Iraq retained significant wmd capacity. Blix specifically stipulated that minus the required cooperation from Iraq, which was not forthcoming, he couldn't disagree.

--We were spending well over $10 billion per year on the no-fly zones, Operation Marine Intercept, etc., deploying tens of thousands of troops some of whom died in places like Khobar Towers. The sanctions they were (inadequately) enforcing killed perhaps a million innocent Iraqis. Seemed like war to them.

--Are you seriously suggesting that we attack North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, etc.? Please compare their record in terms of wars of aggression, Chapter VII Resolutions outstanding, etc vs Iraq.

--The Clinton national security team supported the invasion to a man. They also supported the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

Leaving Saddam Hussein in power was not seen as a viable option in 2002 by nearly three-fourths of the responsible leaders looking at the problem. Maybe you knew better, but then maybe not.


Ever since Stephen Colbert invented the word and concept of “truthiness”, its use and the use of derivative words have become widespread. Its interpretation and application varies. It can mean closely approaching the truth, or it can mean the truth as decided by the user, somewhat similar to the claims of the Bush administration that it creates its own reality.

In a New York Times article about fashionable watches that don’t tell time, one being just a blank space on a fancy watchband, the trend was called a move to “watchiness”.

Other actual or suggested derivative uses are “uniqueiness”, “smartiness” and “global warminess”

Now that President Bush has downgraded the objectives in Iraq, seeking only a state of accommodation, we might apply the term “successiness”

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

truthiness in Iraq

Ever since Stephen Colbert invented the word and concept of “truthiness”, its use and the use of derivative words have become widespread. Its interpretation and application varies. It can mean closely approaching the truth, or it can mean the truth as decided by the user, somewhat similar to the claims of the Bush administration that it creates its own reality.

In a New York Times article about fashionable watches that don’t tell time, one being just a blank space on a fancy watchband, the trend was called a move to “watchiness”.

Other actual or suggested derivative uses are “uniqueiness”, “smartiness” and “global warminess”

Now that President Bush has downgraded the objectives in Iraq, seeking only a state of accommodation, we might apply the term “successiness”

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

Beats the hell out of defeat. Sign me up for "successiness".


Comments closed December 09, 2007.

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