By most accounts I've heard, Vladimir Putin and his cronies would have no problem retaining power in Russia even without this kind of banning of protests and arresting of protestors, but I guess the idea is to frighten people.
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Working for the Clampdown
25 Nov 2007 09:24 pm
Comments (15)
My understanding is that this Russia place has a serious ninja problem.
They react accordingly.
ONLY YOU, THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER, CAN FORCE CONGRESS TO IMPEACH. 1-202-225-0100 DEMAND IMPEACHMENT. (before WE end up like Kasparoff. Call often, spread it around)(DC business hrs)
Well, as a socialist, I like Chavez _a lot_ (probably more than any other major leader right now). Both he and Putin are certainly somewhat authoritarian leaders, but that's probably exactly what both countries (as well as, say, Pakistan) need right now. Any weaker or more liberal government would hand Venezuela back to the oligarchy, Russia back to the criminals and corrupt officials, and Pakistan right into the hands of the neo-Taliban.
My instincts are probably that this referendum is a bad idea. Maybe at another time and place it would be a good one, but not here and now. The most dangerous thing about it isn't the dismantling of checks and balances (which, to be fair, is fairly mild), but the 36-hour workweek. That was the thing that he randomly threw in to sweeten the pot for the electorate, and that was what (for a time) was giving the referendum majority support.
Of course the 36-hour workweek would completely violate the ethos of hard work and sacrifice ('New Socialist Man') that Chavez is trying to create, it would also lower national productivity and distort the economy further away from labor intensive industries (which in a developing economy with lots of unemployment, is exactly what they need to be encouraging.)36 hour workweeks are probably not a good idea anywhere in the world, but certainly not in a country like Venezuela.
I understand that Chavez and some of his socialist allies are annoyed about the spectacle of poor Venezuelans working long hours for exploitative employers. But the thing to do is to get rid of the exploitative bosses, not get rid of the long hours.
I'm also not so sure that the referendum will fail. Polls in LA countries are notoriously unreliable and often explicitly rigged for political purposes, and the pollsters are generally hostile to Chavez. I wouldn't be too dismayed if the referendum won, since I absolutely loathe the leaders of the opposition. Chavez has also threatened to step down if the referendum fails (even though he has 5 more years in his term), which I think would be a very bad thing since his party has no one to replace him.
"The most dangerous thing about it isn't the dismantling of checks and balances"
Meh. Maintaining democracy is a good thing, even for socialists.
I like Chavez, but I'll be happy if he avoids becoming Castro at the end of the day.
"I'm also not so sure that the referendum will fail."
Agreed. Chavez is a definite vote-getter.
I'd just like him to lose an election at some point along the way to reaffirm that he's not Castro. And this would be the election to lose.
"36 hour workweeks are probably not a good idea anywhere in the world."
And you call yourself a socialist? Mon dieu.
The impression I've gotten from having read about the chess bozo in the past is that he's a front for some people who are to the right of Putin - considerably so. In other words, people who would do far worse things to the Russian democracy than Putin has done.
Just because you're a Russian nationalist doesn't mean you're better than a former Communist. The alternatives in Russia today appear to be either going "back" to the Soviet era or moving "forward" to a nationalist, right wing nutcase crowd who wouldn't mind restarting the "Cold War" with a more Hitlerian bent to it.
When the US political leaders are busy using cops to make sure no one gets close enough to Bush to disrupt his contemplative mood that all is well in his world, I'd say the US is in no position to be criticizing Putin for putting down demonstrations. Especially when, as Putin says, a lot of those people appear to be financed by and hang around a lot of "foreign embassies." Just like the "color-coded revolutions" elsewhere in Eastern Europe and in Lebanon.
Does anybody here think Bush and Cheney wouldn't be rigging the next election for a third term if they were allowed it? How do you know they aren't anyway? Do we know that Cheney will no longer be in control if Giuliani gets in?
Right now, Putin and the Chinese appear to be the only two groups on the planet trying to hold Bush and Cheney and their nutcase crowd back from literally trying to conquer the planet.
I still think we should run Putin for President and George Galloway for Vice President on an Independent ticket here in the US in 2008.
Richard,
I think Putin will be too busy trying to become the constitutional monarch of Russia after he retires from the presidence. :)
By the way, is it true what I hear that George Galloway is pro-life? If it is, it would make him just about the perfect candidate. Anti-war, socialist, and against abortion.
Petey,
I don't want to get off topic but my vision of socialism has nothing to do with laziness, or the dole, and everything to do with workers' cooperatives finding value, fulfilment and pleasure in non-alienated, autonomous labor- and therefore, presumably doing much more of it. But that's off topic enough.
and because Chavez is more of an honest democrat than Putin
Hilarious. Putin never attempted to take power by coup, as did Chavez. But I guess trying to take power by coup makes one an "honest democrat" to the Left these days, eh?
Al has a point (hangs head in shame). First of all, whenever you start anything with the words, "As a socialist, I..." I just have to smirk the same way I do when Podheretz goes "Hitler Chamberlain Munich Appeasement Iran A-jad KABOOM!" However, I would probably prefer to live in Venezuela right now than Russia because, like being the thinnest kid at fat camp, Chavez has probably presided over a freer polity (so far) than Putin, in part because democracy is older and more established in Venezuela and there is actually an organized opposition and a lack of high-level assassinations.
"But I guess trying to take power by coup makes one an "honest democrat" to the Left these days, eh?"
No. But while flawed, Chavez still has a significantly better record in terms of democracy and political pluralism than Putin.
"No. But while flawed, Chavez still has a significantly better record in terms of democracy and political pluralism than Putin."
Neither is a democrat -- both are repressive autocrats -- but Putin has done a better job economically than Chavez. Putin has channeled Russia's profits from $100-per-barrel oil into other industries (e.g., commercial aircraft) and has allowed local entrepreneurs (connected to his siloviki, most likely) and foreign multinationals to build new businesses in Russia, generating an economic boom. Chavez has channeled his oil profits into make-work collectives and scared off entrepreneurs and multinationals.
Chavez is also a buffoon. He has been mocked throughout the Spanish-speaking world now after getting told to shut-up by King Juan Carlos of Spain when Chavez wouldn't stop interrupting Spain's president with gratuitous insults about his predecessor. Millions of Spanish speakers now have KJC's put-down of Chavez as the ring tone on their cell phones. The contrast between Spain's President Zapatero and Chavez is the difference between a civilized democratic socialist and the aspiring Communist dictator Chavez is. It's too bad that Jimmy Carter wasn't as assiduous in examining claims of vote fraud in Venezuela as he was in America.
I wish Petey would blog.
The Clash! London Calling!
You're dead! Stop commenting on blogs after you're dead!
I, too, wish Petey would blog. Go Edwards.
Comments closed December 09, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
Speaking of petrodollar semi-electoral leaders, things are interesting in Venezuela at the moment.
There's a poll showing Chavez losing the referendum.
I like Chavez much more than I like Putin both because Chavez is much leftier than Putin and because Chavez is more of an honest democrat than Putin.
But despite liking Chavez, I hope he loses this vote on policy grounds - the referendum destroys the kinds of checks on Presidential power that Putin just bulled through without a referendum.
And I also hope Chavez loses the vote because it'll give him the chance to show he'll respect the will of the electorate when it's against him.
Posted by Petey | November 25, 2007 9:53 PM