« Monday Reformation-Blogging | Main | Iran NIE Reax »

Has Bush Not Gone Far Enough

04 Dec 2007 08:05 am

The Bush administration has proclaimed a doctrine of unilateral preemption as a core part of its National Security Strategy. The limits of this approach are demonstrated daily in Iraq, where the United States is bearing the burden for security, reconstruction, and reform essentially on its own. Yet the world cannot afford to look the other way when faced with the prospect, as in Iraq, of a brutal ruler acquiring nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Addressing this danger requires a different strategy, one that maximizes the chances of early and effective collective action. In this regard, and in comparison to the changes that are taking place in the area of intervention for the purposes of humanitarian protection, the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough.

It's not the most scintillating paragraph ever written, but it sure is a provocative claim. And, indeed, it's all the more provocative for the fact that one author was the highly-regarded Anne-Marie Slaughter and the other was Lee Feinstein, currently heading the Hillary Clinton campaign's foreign policy shop and certainly in line for a fairly important post in a Hillary Clinton administration.

The article in question appeared in the January/February 2004 issue of Foreign Affairs and I hope people will be able to convince the magazine to make the article available for free online since it's of considerable public interest in light of Feinstein's role. Thus far, the other Presidential contenders haven't seen fit to agree with John Edwards that unilateral preventive war should be discarded as a tool of non-proliferation policy, but they haven't seen fit to agree with him, either. Hillary and (especially) Bill Clinton have been attempting to muddy the waters on the question of what they thought about Iraq back in 2003, but the best evidence available from their conduct back then would be that they are supporters of unilateral prevention.

Feinstein's views as expressed in this article seem to offer further confirmation of that. Particularly telling are his ideas of how international institutions and international law fit into the picture:

The contentious issue is who decides when and how to use force. No one nation can or should shoulder alone the obligation to prevent a repressive regime from acquiring WMD. Although the Security Council, still reeling from the Iraq crisis last March, now seems more interested in papering over its differences than in tackling these questions, it remains the preferred enforcer of collective measures. The unmatched legitimacy that the un lends to Security Council actions makes it easier for member states to carry them out and harder for targeted governments to evade them by playing political games. On the other hand, rifts within the council allow states to pursue WMD to advance their programs, leaving individual nations to take matters into their own hands, which further erodes the stature and credibility of the United Nations.

Given the Security Council's propensity for paralysis, alternative means of enforcement must be considered. The second most legitimate enforcer is the regional organization that is most likely to be affected by the emerging threat. After that, the next best option would be another regional organization, such as NATO, with a less direct connection to the targeted state but with a sufficiently broad membership to permit serious deliberation over the exercise of a collective duty. It is only after these options are tried in good faith that unilateral action or coalitions of the willing should be considered.

This seems like a longwinded way of saying nothing. International organizations are very important and we should always work through them except in those instances when doing so might require us to do anything other than exactly what we wanted to do in the first place. For all the words, their guidelines turn out to be no guidelines at all. Force should only be used under such and such occasions and the appropriate group to decide whether or not the conditions apply is either the UN or a local security organization or an out-of-area organization or else unilateral action. Nice work if you can get it, but if applied universally it's just a recipe for endless war and universal chaos.

But one assumes that like Bush-style prevention, this isn't meant to be applied universally, it's supposed to be a For America Only license to attack other countries. That, however, isn't an international non-proliferation regime that's going to secure broad loyalty around the world. And without active cooperation from officials all around the world, it's very difficult in practice to make a non-proliferation regime work. Which is going to mean more nuclear programs and ultimately more nuclear weapons -- the precise reverse of what the policy is supposed to achieve.

It's a seriously flawed vision: One that's phrased calmly in the language of international law and pragmatism but that's lacks substantive differences with the way the Bush administration has been conducting itself.

Share This

Comments (40)

Thus far, the other Presidential contenders haven't seen fit to agree with John Edwards that unilateral preventive war should be discarded as a tool of non-proliferation policy, but they haven't seen fit to agree with him, either.

missing a "dis-" somewhere ?

Shorter Matthew: we need to give other countries a veto over our national security. Anything else is the law of the jungle.

No thanks. It's not clear to me why Matthew is so intent of giving away our sovereignty for the pipe dream that the UN will will protect us, but it seems to me neither wise nor a winning strategy - after all, John Kerry tried this strategy in 2004 and it failed miserably.

One could easily believe in unilateral intervention for the prevention of the spread of nuclear weapons and still oppose what happened and continues to happen in Iraq. Hegemony has duties as well as limits. The spread of nuclear weapons was only a surface rationale for a continuing military presence in the region to control the flow of petroleum, to help safeguard Israel, and to boost the Republican domestic agenda. And, of course, now to feed the vanity of the people of people who advocated the boondoggle by allowing them to pose as misunderstood prophets.

Pikestaffs, pitchforks, and torches. When/If we ever have a truly progressive political party in this country, I want those symbols to be on the party nameplate along with the logo, "Never Again".

Count on Slimy Al to offer the views of maniacs everywhere.

I think one of the things Matt Y. is saying is to stop using deceptive arguments about principles that you claim to be universally applicable when really you're simply talking about ad hoc policies.

This is much too important a subject to blur with faulty historical facts. The problem here is that while we should certainly be taking lessons from Iraq, it would be worse than taking none to take the wrong ones.

Iraq was a very special, hard, case of the kind that is said to "make bad law". We had officially gone to war with Iraq with full legal bells and whistles in 1991. The ceasefire agreement and sixteen other Chapter VII UNSC Resolutions had been comprehensively violated in the next twelve years, which featured massive military deployments, ongoing combat operations, and the deaths of perhaps a million innocent people. Ultimately, enforcement of the sanctions cumulatively as expressed in the "final opportunity" language of UNSCR 1441, was supported by most of the world's important democracies minus a few, some of which had clear vested interests in a return to business as usual with the Iraqi regime, and/or unrelated domestic political issues. The invasion of Iraq may well have been a bad idea, and other things, but "preventive" and "unilateral" are simply not among them.

The authors are right to point out the importance of some kind of plan going forward to confront, in particular, the proliferation of wmd's and genocide. But there are simply no nations out there-not North Korea, certainly not Pakistan, or Iran, or Syria, that come remotely near Iraq's status as a serial violator of international norms. We need to look elsewhere for useful examples and ideas about collective international action.

I thought Professor Slaughter was conducting the Symphony of Democracies. That was a previous construct, probably not yet dead, the sole purpose of which was to make military intervention easier than going to the UN.

Is Anne-Marie Slaughter really "highly regarded"? By whom?

These authors were writing in the context of a set of specific historical circumstances: All our chief foreign involvements since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union--Bush I's mobilization of a multilateral response to Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait and the subsequent first Gulf War; the ill-fated Somalia incursion; President Clinton's insertion of American forces into Haiti; and above all the trifecta of the Balkan conflicts, Afghanistan, and the Iraq invasion.

I really disagree with Matt that it's saying nothing when you try to parse out what the guidelines for American action should be in the absence of complete international multilateral endorsement of our means and/or ends. In fact it's the central problem of America-the-hegemon's foreign policy. And it seems virtually impervious to the deduction of rules to guide our policy. Which is what makes Slaughter/Feinstein's analysis so weak. But it's not a problem that's going to go away--nor, it seems to me, is it a problem amenable to a simple slam-dunk answer.

Here's one try at a prudential rule, though: The less international support you can garner for a given policy, the higher you must set the bar for deciding to embark on it. For example, even though the situation is still unresolved, I still think we were right (in fact, too slow!) to intervene in Bosnia and Kosovo despite the lack of UN (Russian & Chinese) acquiescence. At least we had Nato and its several principals with us in that cause. But I always thought invading Iraq, with no one except Tony "Poodle" Blair and a bunch of Moldavians on our side, was utterly insane. But if we had found the unicorn in Iraq--nukes and smallpox and deathless cyborg mutant warriors, oh my--then, as the neocon crazies contended, our gambit would have justified itself. But in a sense, Clintonian realpolitik regarding multilateral sanction for action (or dispensing with it) added to the fatal temptation of taking it to the next level and going it alone. But here's the rub: We can never axiomatically rule out the possible necessity of going it alone in the national interest, any more than we should axiomatically repudiate all multilateral considerations and act solely out of unilateral interest.

We can never axiomatically rule out the possible necessity of going it alone in the national interest...

As if "the national interest" is something identifiable. The national interest as defined by ExxonMobil's CEO? Norman Podhoretz? Cindy Sheehan?

And you wonder why I pray nightly that through some deux ex machina the United States be destroyed utterly? The sad thing is that, because it possess nuclear weapons, it won't go quietly.

It's not clear to me why Matthew is so intent of giving away our sovereignty for the pipe dream that the UN will will protect us

Nah, Al. I don't think that's what Matt is saying. Where we've suffered an overt attack, threat of invasion, rebellion, etc. . . . When war is upon us, of course we can defend our sovereignty without anyone's say so.

One can believe the above and simultaneously believe that wars of choice shouldn't be launched unless and until we get at least the approval of the Security Council.

Please do not treat that monster Al as a serious person with serious concerns. He is a mad dog that should be shot dead on the street.

abb1: I readily agree that defining the national interest is tricky. And different analysts will come up with different answers--that's where policy meets politics: I desperately want wise, prudential, non-crazy people formulating and executing foreign policy. My question to you would be, how would you operate without at least an implicit notion of national interest?

NB: Al and Powell are wastes of time, everybody--just ignore them....

Sorry, Robert Powell, but whether to invade Iraq in 2003 was not a "hard case." Remember, UN Weapons inspectors were in Iraq, and were finding jacksh*t. They were weeks or months away from concluding that there were no illicit weapons programs of any kind, which of course, the US conclusively discovered shortly thereafter. In short, Iraq posed no threat to the US, or its neighbors.

Oh, did I just feed the troll, elle? Sorry. BTW, your post @ 9:37 is quite good.

Elle, my only point is that since in most cases 'national interest' is so amorphous, it seems unlikely that it can be well-served by applying a blunt force, decisive radical action. That's usually done by a small group of people who know exactly what they want and it ain't 'national interest'.

I'm in complete agreement.

Once we agree that country A may, under certain circumstances, unilaterally resort to preventive war, we will have to agree as well that it must be up to country A to take the final decision whether circumstances are indeed such, in any concrete situation, that they necessitate (and therefore substantively justify) resort to preventive war.

However, if country A has the right to take the final decision on whether circumstances necessitate preventive war, then hardly any of its decisions unilaterally to engage in preventive war will ever be illegitimate.

After all, if country A decides to go to war unilaterally, it is merely exercising its implied right to take the final decision on whether circumstances necessitate preventive action. But if A is entitled to take the final decision on the question of necessity, it must be irrelevant to the legitimacy of A's actions whether other states or institutions agree with country A that preventive war is necessary (and therefore substantively justified). Likewise, it must be irrelevant for the legitimacy of A's actions whether A is indeed correct to claim that circumstances necessitate preventive action. Even in acting on a substantively mistaken judgment of necessity, country A would not do anything that it isn't entitled to do, if it has the right to take the final decision on the question of necessity.

All the rest is smoke and mirrors. The bottom line is that if you believe that unilateral preventive war is permissible under certain circumstances for country A, then you must also accept that country A can legitimately go to war pretty much whenever it pleases, on the basis of nothing more than the claim that aggressive action is necessary (either absolutely or even only in order to 'make the world a better place').

The only other option is to strictly outlaw unilateral preventive war. The idea that it is possible to finesse this alternative, in building some kind of relatively stable and relatively peaceful international order, is either a sign of stupidity or of intellectual dishonesty. In the case of Hilary Clinton or professors at Princeton, my money is on the latter interpretation.

This seems like a longwinded way of saying nothing. International organizations are very important and we should always work through them except in those instances when doing so might require us to do anything other than exactly what we wanted to do in the first place.

Also, I don't see how Matthew gets this from the quoted paragraphs. There's nothing in the quotes that says that we should not compromise in order to get international organizations to work with us. By working with international organizations, we may very well not get to do "exactly what we wanted to do in the first place"; instead, we may get to do something which is second best, but which we choose to do in order to act in accordance with the international organizations. That seems to me to be an important distinction from what Matthew is saying.

If people who held about the same positions as nearly three-fourths of Congress, including Democrats, the whole Clinton national security team, the governments of nearly all the NATO countries (Spain, Italy, Britain, Poland, Holland, Denmark, Poland, etc, etc.-hardly "Moldovans"), Japan, South Korea, Australia, etc., and remember why, are "trolls", I fear for the future of Democrats. If you don't like my facts, counter them with facts of your own. So far, no luck. Mostly regurgitated Deaniac talking points augmented by rumor, partisan cant, and gossip.

I think loco's 9:37 post is pretty good too, minus the factual errors. And I certainly agree that we need to be clear about what we consider to be "national interests". I think any reasonable list would include defense of allies from aggression, enforcement of ceasefires and UNSC Chapter VII Resolutions, acting against restraint of trade in vital commodities and genocide, and against the proliferation and use of wmd's. You shouldn't give up so easily, elle. If you are confronted with facts you have no answer for, just try being open minded. We're all humans here.

Jeff-if you check the actual wording of the Security Council Resolutions, the wording of Lord Goldsmith's finding, the Duelfer Report, etc. you'll clearly see that the goal was not to have inspectors disarm Iraq, but to have Iraq disarm "pro-actively and transparently" and have the inspectors verify it. Blix's final report made it clear that they continued to refuse to do so, thus standing in material breech of several UNSC Resolutions, including the unanimous 1441 and the original ceasefire. It was never the intent of the international community that we play hide-and-seek (Blix's words) with a totalitarian police state the size of Texas looking for wmd's. Iraq had them, used them to kill tens of thousands of people, and was found to be months away from a operational nuke the last time we invaded. It's a big mistake to look at history knowing what we know now, and assume that it was obvious at the time. Most well-informed people agreed that it was unlikely that Iraq had reconstituted it's nuke program, and plenty of them said so at the time. But this was guesswork, and EVERYBODY, including according to documents captured after the fall of Baghdad, Iraqi generals, and perhaps Saddam himself, thought they still had chemical and biological capabilities that could have killed more GI's in four hours than we've lost in four years.

There's nothing in the quotes that says that we should not compromise in order to get international organizations to work with us. By working with international organizations, we may very well not get to do "exactly what we wanted to do in the first place"; instead, we may get to do something which is second best, but which we choose to do in order to act in accordance with the international organizations.

Oh, sure, America might have to make "compromises". But what is the heart of the matter, under the unilateral pre-emption doctrine, the required compromise must never be doing nothing. Because that would be the "veto" the other countries/organizations would have over America's national security you and your lot are screaming about.

Pre-emptive war is supposed to be considered only if there is a grave threat to America's national security. But what happens if other countries disagree with the U.S. government in the question of this threat exists, as have France and Germany in the case of the Iraq war?

Would you accept it if, say, a HRC administration says: "Well, we think that America's in grave danger because nefarious country XY is trying to get the bomb, so we thought a little bombing/invading is appropriate, but NATO said no, so we won't do anything"?

If people who held about the same positions as nearly three-fourths of Congress, including Democrats, the whole Clinton national security team, the governments of nearly all the NATO countries (Spain, Italy, Britain, Poland, Holland, Denmark, Poland, etc, etc.-hardly "Moldovans"), Japan, South Korea, Australia, etc., and remember why, are "trolls", I fear for the future of Democrats.

a) You're outrageously grafting the opinions of others onto your own warmongering logo. You have no facts, merely assertions. I feel completely sure that that laundry list of countries don't hold the opinions about pre-emptive war that you suggest.

b) You fear for the future of the Democrats? The future of the Democrats looked worst in 2002 and 2004, when people like you sucked up to militarism and Republican-ism light and torpedoed Dean, the only guy who had a shot at beating George Bush.


I think loco's 9:37 post is pretty good too, minus the factual errors. And I certainly agree that we need to be clear about what we consider to be "national interests". I think any reasonable list would include defense of allies from aggression, enforcement of ceasefires and UNSC Chapter VII Resolutions, acting against restraint of trade in vital commodities and genocide, and against the proliferation and use of wmd's.

If this is a list of "reasons why we should invade someone", which evidence suggests - it's stupid, outrageous and beside the point. If you were on Hilary Clinton's foreign policy team, I would seriously consider voting for a Republican, on the grounds that most of them except Guliani aren't even this deranged. Failing that, I wouldn't vote at all.

But beyond electoral politics - where the h*ll have you been for the past four years??? Have you yet to notice that Iraq has been a terrible conglomerate of pointless injustices, kneecapping and bankruptcy for no clear gain? People are celebrating because the daily murders are finally down to half what they were last year and five times what they were in 2002? And you're cheerfully suggesting everything was great and we'd do it again?

EVERYBODY, including according to documents captured after the fall of Baghdad, Iraqi generals, and perhaps Saddam himself, thought they still had chemical and biological capabilities that could have killed more GI's in four hours than we've lost in four years.

Bull. I mean, absolute trash. The actual documents in question suggest that maybe Saddamn retained some knowledge, maybe between a few tens or a few hundreds of weaponized biochem items, and unknown amounts of bulk agent stocks, and some research programs. Enough stuff to kill maybe a few hundreds Kurds in villages, and the potential capacity to weaponize more at some point.. and enough to... irritate a battalion for a few days. Kill 4000 soldiers? You're out of your freakin' mind.

Oh, sure, America might have to make "compromises". But what is the heart of the matter, under the unilateral pre-emption doctrine, the required compromise must never be doing nothing. Because that would be the "veto" the other countries/organizations would have over America's national security you and your lot are screaming about.

Well, I suspect that anything so important that we might consider unilateral preemption would be something we should not "do[] nothing" about.

In fact, if you look at our Iran policy in the Bush Administration, we see exactly what I'm talking about. We have not made any unilateral preemptive attack against Iran. Instead, we have tried to work through international organizations to achieve our objectives. And, guess what, we have had to compromise - the international organizations haven't done everything we've asked. And we still haven't bombed Iran. So this seems to be a direct refutation of Matthew's point.

Robert Powell - IIRC, the UN resolutions that Iraq had been in breech off left it up to the UN security council to come up with repercussions.

When making their case for war, British and American diplomats tried to win over their French, Russian etc. counterparts to get a UN resolution. They did not get a thumbs up for war, they only got UNSCR 1441, which warned of "grave consequences" or something like that. In other words, the other members of the UN security council would NOT go along with words like "invasion", "regime change" or "endless civil war borne of mindshattering incompetence". Mind you, the "grave consequences" would only follow if Hussein did not comply with UN demands. He did, but was invaded anyway. It was Bush who ordered the inspectors out.

The United States started a war without being under attack, without an ally being under attack and without the explicit say so of the UN security council. That makes it a war of aggression.

The United States have hanged a couple of Germans and Japanese for waging aggressive war not too long ago.

Perhaps a million Iraqis are now dead.

jasper/glasnost re: Facts vs Gossip:

Every single one of the countries I named, and more, supported enforcement of the Resolutions. However one "feels", this is a matter of public record. And there was no "pre-emptive war". Read history. I suggest you start by Googling the Duelfer Report, and the Finding Lord Goldsmith provided to Parliament which was published on the front page of The Guardian in mid-March 2003. Really, get educated. Click Google. Learn something, then post.

Powell, you got a problem: I was alive and sentient at the time, highly trained in internatinoal affairs, and I know you're full of shit. We couldn't get the second UN resolution. We couldn't get the support of Nato. We frog-marched Hans Blix out of Baghdad even as he was on the phone to Foggy Bottom frantically asking for more GPS coordinates to raid. Our "fallback position" at the time was to try to get France to sign on to a 60-day ultimatum that Saddam Hussein pull a unicorn out of his ass or we were going to go in there and find it ourselves....

But you're a waste of time--I forgot myself there for a moment.

Anne-Marie Slaughter seems to be very quickly backing away from her previous support for the Iraq war. She also said the same thing about "we should work with international organizations except when we shouldn't". Anne-Marie Slaughter is largely a moron but she is ambitious and smart enough to kiss up to whoever she thinks will be in power and appoint her to a prominent position. She is giving to both the Clinton and Obama campaigns. That should tell you something right there.

I think that ESA should be our preferred forum. Nice thing is that this acronym covers a number of totally dissimular organizations, Europeans Symposium on Algorithm, Endicronologist Society of Australia, Eurasian Savages Anonymous, Exiles from Saudi Arabia.

Question: why some people think that "Women's Studies" are not serious, while a "School of Political Science" is? What makes me wonder is that some people engaged in Political Science are actually smart, but Slaughter and Rice make me think that something is deeply wrong with people at the top of that field.

Not to mention that following recommendations of luminaries of Women's Studies would probably be much safer.

Hanging by the neck until dead the architects of this horror, as satisfying as that would be, does not go nearly far enough. What is needed is the complete elimination - and yes, that means what it sounds like - of the entire political/media establishment of the United States.

There is NEVER a situation where the US should use unilateral force against anybody absent a direct threat TO THE US or an ally with whom we have a mutual defense treaty (and quite frankly, we shouldn't have any such allies, as George Washington stated.) It's that simple.

Any other use of force must require an explicit UN authorization. Period. Not NATO, not SEATO, the UN. And not some resolution "interpreted" either, but a clearly explicit authorization.

So a "ruthless dictator" get nukes? SO WHAT? We just went through fifty years of "ruthless dictators" with nukes. We still are - or doesn't anybody in the "Very Serious People" crowd count the Chinese leadership as "ruthless dictators" any more?

The issue is: what is the direct threat, to whom, and who therefore should be responsible for responding to said threat - the person being threatened, the surrounding states, or the international community under UN auspices?

If the UN can't garner enough Security Council votes to authorize military action - because China or Russia have legitimate or illegitimate reasons to oppose it - then clearly the UN needs to be worked on. Substituting some war mongers in a given country for a UN vote is nothing to the purpose of keeping the peace.

Russia and China probably had perfectly good reasons for not supporting going into Kosovo and bombing Yugoslavia. There are people outside China and Russia who make cogent arguments for that approach. Therefore, it's not rational to make that incident a justification for unilateral preventive war.

Iraq was not a direct threat TO ANYBODY. Period. They had no nukes, were not threatening to use nukes against anyone, and therefore should not have been attacked. The same applies to Iran and for that matter, North Korea, back when NK was actually testing their (dud) nukes. NK still wasn't actually threatening to use nukes and even in possession of nukes should not have been attacked absent a direct military intention confirmed by surveillance. The same applies to Iraq. If you don't see any nukes and there are no threats to use nukes, then you are committing to war on the basis of HYPOTHESIS and CONJECTURE.

Slaughter and the rest of these morons who believe in preventive war are simply war mongers. They are pushing the same bullshit that Mixner and his crowd uses to justify torture - that MAYBE SOMEDAY SOMEBODY MIGHT have to use torture to prevent SOMETHING "bad" from happening.

It's bullshit.

If you really want to prevent some state from initiating a nuclear war, you'd best start long before they have a nuclear weapons program. In fact, long before said dictator even comes into power. Which, by the way, means stop supporting dictators into power just because they promise you the fucking oil. And you'd best do the preventing of dictators in concert with other nations.

Either that, or you'd best round up some Special Forces guys or CIA contract assets and have said dictator shot in the head long before he becomes dictator.

Sitting around and bullshitting about "preventive war" is nothing to the purpose of PEACE. It's just a cover for justifying wars in the "national interest" - which means the oil companies, the war profiteers, the politicians, and various other thugs.

As for Powell, this moron is still citing the Brits legal justification for war even after it was revealed that their initial position was that it was illegal and Blair stomped on them until he got the position he wanted. Meanwhile, every other international group of legal experts has stated the US war on Iraq was completely illegal.

Powell's a fucking liar. Big surprise.

This is an important subject, with bearing on who gets nominated and, more imporantly, what lessons we may take from our costly experience in Iraq. It's a conversation worth taking seriously rather than having it distracted by the net equivalent of boorish teenagers running around shouting profanities, playing with matches, and spray-painting slogans on the wall.

It is entirely possible that "alive and sentient" people will believe what is politically convenient and currently fashionable--that actual legal findings and the careful deliberations of MANY important democratically elected governments are trumped by fragments of in-house speculative discussions leaked with bad intent; that a few UN figures with obvious conflicts of interest and unnamed cabals of politically-interested kibbitzers have more legal authority than institutions like Parliament and Congress; that one can take a few months and one set of Security Council debates out of the context of twelve years of war and numerous preceeding Resolutions and have a coherent picture of what occurred, etc. But it's not a credible approach, and will produce no useful conclusions.

I have absolutely no stake in defending Bush. His blunders have set back the cause of liberal internationalism, which I believe in deeply, for perhaps a generation. But carrying on as if the entire Iraq fiasco was ginned up out of thin air by a clique of deviants in the White House after 9/11 is in the same league with blaming space aliens or the ghost of Elvis. Following this line the only lesson we get is that we shouldn't elect George Bush any more. Doesn't seem sufficient for a foreign policy going forward. We can and should do better.

Preventive war is a terrible idea--Bismarck called it "suicide from fear of death". Pre-emptive war requires a level of intelligence certainty that we do not possess in any current or recent cases of which I'm aware, as most recently demonstrated by the new NIE on Iran. Trying to make the case against either kind of action using Iraq as an example is a mistake, because there were simply too many other considerations involved--US and UN credibility in enforcing crucial international agreements, the world's interest in accountability for perpetrators of wars of aggression and genocide, genuine concerns about wmd proliferation and use based on documented facts, the search for stability in a region that's vital to the world economy, and many more.

We have blundered badly in Iraq, but the idea that we could have responsibly ignored two decades of history and just walk away leaving Saddam Hussein in a position to resume his drive for dominence in the Persian Gulf region by, among other things, engaging in a nuclear arms race with Iran, was not a credible alternative.

But carrying on as if the entire Iraq fiasco was ginned up out of thin air by a clique of deviants in the White House after 9/11 is in the same league with blaming space aliens or the ghost of Elvis.

Nobody says that. The fiasco was ginned up waaayyyy before 9/11.

Mr. emmering-
My point exactly. Every Security Council meeting on this subject from 1990 until the fall of Baghdad was opened by the Chair with the phrase, "...on the matter of Kuwait and Iraq."

It doesn't help your case to make remarks like "...'grave consequences' would follow only if Hussein did not comply with UN demands. He did...". In point of fact, he manifestly did NOT, as made clear by Hans Blix in his final report. Iraq was required to disarm "pro-actively and transparently", the only way there could be any confidence at all in the results. They not only refused to do this, but to account for the thousands of "disappeared" Kuwaitis, desist from genocide against the Marsh Arabs, and a number of other elements of the ceasefire and subsequent Resolutions. It's a matter of indisputable public record.

The occupation phase of the war was certainly a fiasco. The best estimates of the casualties are in the 100-150,000 range, a catastrophe by any standards. But the UN sanctions regime which most posters here seem ignorant of or oblivious to killed perhaps a MILLION Iraqis according to the UN itself, and had the additional effect of tightening the regime's grip on power. Our moral position is significantly different when we are putting ourselves on the line to defend Iraqis, most of the victims among whom have been killed by our (and their) enemies, rather than killing them in much larger numbers by remote control.

There's no need to go on endlessly. The readily available historical facts make it clear that this has been a very complex, very long-running debacle involving lots of political leaders in lots of countries struggling with varying degrees of competence to bring it to a reasonable conclusion. Attempts to paint it as some kind of a partisan Punch and Judy show is superficial to the point of intellectual dishonesty.

Gee, and people wonder why I don't believe a HRC Presidency would be any better than the Presidencies of any of the Republican candidates...

With people like this calling the shots, how could it be?

Powell--so you think invading Iraq "may well" have been a bad idea. You think? You're still mad that Saddam Hussein didn't pull a unicorn out of his ass...and I bet you're mad that we didn't then find a unicorn when we went up his ass to find it.

Foreign policy's ultimate test is not about rationales or motivations or good intentions: It's about consequences. You are a fool. I rest my case. Good bye.

What you should rest is your mouth. You have no case, just an attitude problem. Fuck you.

Here's a copy of Ann-Marie Slaughter's response to Matt's article, which is up on the LA Times's website in case you haven't seen it.

She makes a convincing case that Matt has done a perfectly Bush-esque job of cherry-picking and distorting the facts.

Way to go, Matt!

Has Rove called you yet? Lee Atwater would've been proud, too!

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oew-slaughter12dec12,0,5588012.story?coll=la-opinion-center

From the Los Angeles Times
BLOWBACK
The case for collective force
A foreign policy scholar takes issue with a recent Times Op-Ed on Democratic hawks.
By Anne-Marie Slaughter

December 12, 2007

Matt Yglesias is sharply skewing the facts in his Op-Ed " Beyond preemption," when he tries to link Hillary Clinton's purported willingness to bomb Iran, for which there is no evidence, to a piece that Lee Feinstein and I co-authored for Foreign Affairs in 2004. That piece was entitled "A Duty to Prevent." In it we did indeed write, as Yglesias quotes, that "the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough." But Yglesias employs the journalistically unprofessional tactic of quoting only part of a sentence. The full context for that quote is the following passage:

"Addressing [the danger of "a brutal ruler acquiring nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction"] requires a different strategy, one that maximizes the chances of early and effective collective action. In this regard, and in comparison to the changes that are taking place in the area of intervention for humanitarian protection purposes, the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough."

The phrases I have italicized go to the core of our argument. We acknowledged that the weapons of mass destruction had not been found in Iraq and indeed noted that had the U.S. been willing to follow the United Nations process to its logical and legal conclusion, we would have been persuaded that those weapons did not exist in the first place. However, the possibility of regimes with no checks and balances on their power acquiring illegal nuclear weapons continued to exist (Exhibit A: North Korea). We argued that the world had to be prepared to take "early and effective collective action" against such a threat just as it was preparing to take early and effective collective action against massive humanitarian violations through the doctrine of an individual government's responsibility to protect its own people.

The centerpiece of our argument is that unilateral action that involves force ought to be avoided at all costs, but that at the same time the existing rules for multilateral authorization of options of the use of force were inadequate to meet the kinds of threats we face in the 21st century. We thus proposed a doctrine that would allow a collective response to the potential acquisition of nuclear weapons by a regime with no checks on its ability to use them on either a global or, as a last resort, a regional basis.

The larger issue here goes to the core of one of the most disastrous consequences of the Bush foreign policy. The unilateralism espoused by the first Bush administration and many still within the administration today has created a false choice between adhering to a collective decision-making system created for a different world in 1945 and going to war without any collective authorization whatsoever. Our article was a sharp rejection of the Bush Doctrine. But it was nevertheless an attempt to chart a different path, a path of reform that recognized both the existence of new threats and the vital importance of a rules-based response.

Anne-Marie Slaughter is Dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and author of The Idea That Is America: Keeping Faith with Our Values in a Dangerous World.

Here's a copy of Ann-Marie Slaughter's response to Matt's article, which is up on the LA Times's website in case you haven't seen it.

She makes a convincing case that Matt has done a perfectly Bush-esque job of cherry-picking and distorting the facts.

Way to go, Matt!

Has Rove called you yet? Lee Atwater would've been proud, too!

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oew-slaughter12dec12,0,5588012.story?coll=la-opinion-center

From the Los Angeles Times
BLOWBACK
The case for collective force
A foreign policy scholar takes issue with a recent Times Op-Ed on Democratic hawks.
By Anne-Marie Slaughter

December 12, 2007

Matt Yglesias is sharply skewing the facts in his Op-Ed " Beyond preemption," when he tries to link Hillary Clinton's purported willingness to bomb Iran, for which there is no evidence, to a piece that Lee Feinstein and I co-authored for Foreign Affairs in 2004. That piece was entitled "A Duty to Prevent." In it we did indeed write, as Yglesias quotes, that "the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough." But Yglesias employs the journalistically unprofessional tactic of quoting only part of a sentence. The full context for that quote is the following passage:

"Addressing [the danger of "a brutal ruler acquiring nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction"] requires a different strategy, one that maximizes the chances of early and effective collective action. In this regard, and in comparison to the changes that are taking place in the area of intervention for humanitarian protection purposes, the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough."

The phrases I have italicized go to the core of our argument. We acknowledged that the weapons of mass destruction had not been found in Iraq and indeed noted that had the U.S. been willing to follow the United Nations process to its logical and legal conclusion, we would have been persuaded that those weapons did not exist in the first place. However, the possibility of regimes with no checks and balances on their power acquiring illegal nuclear weapons continued to exist (Exhibit A: North Korea). We argued that the world had to be prepared to take "early and effective collective action" against such a threat just as it was preparing to take early and effective collective action against massive humanitarian violations through the doctrine of an individual government's responsibility to protect its own people.

The centerpiece of our argument is that unilateral action that involves force ought to be avoided at all costs, but that at the same time the existing rules for multilateral authorization of options of the use of force were inadequate to meet the kinds of threats we face in the 21st century. We thus proposed a doctrine that would allow a collective response to the potential acquisition of nuclear weapons by a regime with no checks on its ability to use them on either a global or, as a last resort, a regional basis.

The larger issue here goes to the core of one of the most disastrous consequences of the Bush foreign policy. The unilateralism espoused by the first Bush administration and many still within the administration today has created a false choice between adhering to a collective decision-making system created for a different world in 1945 and going to war without any collective authorization whatsoever. Our article was a sharp rejection of the Bush Doctrine. But it was nevertheless an attempt to chart a different path, a path of reform that recognized both the existence of new threats and the vital importance of a rules-based response.

Anne-Marie Slaughter is Dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and author of The Idea That Is America: Keeping Faith with Our Values in a Dangerous World.

Here's a copy of Ann-Marie Slaughter's response to Matt's article, which is up on the LA Times's website in case you haven't seen it.

She makes a convincing case that Matt has done a perfectly Bush-esque job of cherry-picking and distorting the facts.

Way to go, Matt!

Has Rove called you yet? Lee Atwater would've been proud, too!

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oew-slaughter12dec12,0,5588012.story?coll=la-opinion-center

From the Los Angeles Times
BLOWBACK
The case for collective force
A foreign policy scholar takes issue with a recent Times Op-Ed on Democratic hawks.
By Anne-Marie Slaughter

December 12, 2007

Matt Yglesias is sharply skewing the facts in his Op-Ed " Beyond preemption," when he tries to link Hillary Clinton's purported willingness to bomb Iran, for which there is no evidence, to a piece that Lee Feinstein and I co-authored for Foreign Affairs in 2004. That piece was entitled "A Duty to Prevent." In it we did indeed write, as Yglesias quotes, that "the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough." But Yglesias employs the journalistically unprofessional tactic of quoting only part of a sentence. The full context for that quote is the following passage:

"Addressing [the danger of "a brutal ruler acquiring nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction"] requires a different strategy, one that maximizes the chances of early and effective collective action. In this regard, and in comparison to the changes that are taking place in the area of intervention for humanitarian protection purposes, the biggest problem with the Bush preemption strategy may be that it does not go far enough."

The phrases I have italicized go to the core of our argument. We acknowledged that the weapons of mass destruction had not been found in Iraq and indeed noted that had the U.S. been willing to follow the United Nations process to its logical and legal conclusion, we would have been persuaded that those weapons did not exist in the first place. However, the possibility of regimes with no checks and balances on their power acquiring illegal nuclear weapons continued to exist (Exhibit A: North Korea). We argued that the world had to be prepared to take "early and effective collective action" against such a threat just as it was preparing to take early and effective collective action against massive humanitarian violations through the doctrine of an individual government's responsibility to protect its own people.

The centerpiece of our argument is that unilateral action that involves force ought to be avoided at all costs, but that at the same time the existing rules for multilateral authorization of options of the use of force were inadequate to meet the kinds of threats we face in the 21st century. We thus proposed a doctrine that would allow a collective response to the potential acquisition of nuclear weapons by a regime with no checks on its ability to use them on either a global or, as a last resort, a regional basis.

The larger issue here goes to the core of one of the most disastrous consequences of the Bush foreign policy. The unilateralism espoused by the first Bush administration and many still within the administration today has created a false choice between adhering to a collective decision-making system created for a different world in 1945 and going to war without any collective authorization whatsoever. Our article was a sharp rejection of the Bush Doctrine. But it was nevertheless an attempt to chart a different path, a path of reform that recognized both the existence of new threats and the vital importance of a rules-based response.

Anne-Marie Slaughter is Dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University and author of The Idea That Is America: Keeping Faith with Our Values in a Dangerous World.

Robert Powell:

Casualties - as far as I know there are only two scientifically robust estimates of excess death in Iraq after the 2003 invasion. They both put the most likely number at about a million (with a very wide margin: 95%CI in between 600,000-1,500,000).

Santions - Just because the US led a disastrous invasion of Iraq doesn't mean that the sanctions regime (which was also de facto US controlled) was a bed of roses. Both options were obviously bad for Iraqis.

Resolutions - Israel is in breach of resolutions as well. Would you mind Russia invading Israel for this? The only non-aggressive offensive war is one that's fought at the explicit request of the UN security council. Iraq (or Kosovo for that matter) doesn't qualify.


Comments closed December 18, 2007.

Copyright © 2007 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.