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Holbrooke's Secret Plan

19 Dec 2007 10:52 am

I apologize for the extreme length of this post, but the determination of various people to mislead the public about their pre-war stances on Iraq seems to me to require Greenwald-esque post lengths to try to document. At any rate, it would be a lot easier for me to forgive the Democratic Party politicians and prominent operatives who helped sell the country on George W. Bush's disastrous war in Iraq if they would at least 'fess up and admit that they supported a war that they very clearly did succeed. Here, for example, is former UN Ambassador and top Hillary Clinton advisor telling an audience in New Hampshire that Clinton voted for the war as a way of preventing the war:

Hillary Clinton's 2002 vote to authorize President Bush to go to war in Iraq continues to dog her on the campaign trail. Speaking to Monitor editors and reporters yesterday, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke gave a lengthy defense of that vote, which centered on Clinton's hope that Bush would use the Senate's support to avoid war. A Monitor editor asked why Clinton wasn't naïve to hope that Bush would use the vote to avoid military conflict.

"Here's why I know she's telling the truth," said Holbrooke, who was in New Hampshire to stump for Clinton. "After I left the U.N., I remained in very close touch with Kofi Annan; he's a very close friend. And at exactly the same time, but after the Senate vote, we were at Kofi's residence, my wife and I, and (Colin) Powell had just been up there, and Powell was trying to get the 15 votes at the Security Council for Security Council Resolution [1441], which ultimately passed. And I said, 'What's going on?' And Kofi said, 'He's told us that if we get a unanimous vote, we can avoid war.'

Now let's flash back to the October 15, 2002 episode of the NewsHour featuring Jeanne Kirkpatrick and Holbrooke. This is just after the congress voted to authorize war, while negotiations were ongoing at the UN. Kirkpatrick said:

A couple things to say. You know the definition of university professors -- or "people who think otherwise," you know the French are sort of "people who think otherwise." They all like to have their own position, which is never quite the same, or rarely quite the same as anybody else's position, least of all the United States position. And I think there's a significant element just of this thinking otherwise, the French position.

I think they also have like to think of themselves as having a kind of special relationship with a number of the once formerly colonial, Arab areas in the Mediterranean and they think of themselves as understanding them better, and dealing more effectively with them. And they finally don't like really to, just, they don't like to follow the United States. If it was our idea, they'd rather do something different.

In short, according to Kirkpatrick, even the French weren't opposing the war because the war was a bad idea. They were just being ornery. In reply, Holbrooke said:

Well, I agree with everything that Jeane Kirkpatrick just said. It reminds me a little of that famous line from 'My Fair Lady,' where Professor Higgins says to Eliza Doolittle, "The French don't actually care what you say as long as you pronounce it correctly."

In short, at the time Holbrooke didn't see this as a way to avoid war. Indeed, Holbrooke claimed to believe that even the French didn't really oppose war. He went on:

Now, that is a decision that will not be made at the U.N.; that will be made by President Bush. Right now the Bush administration has said very clearly they want a single resolution. The French have said they want two. President Bush's comments yesterday suggested he was trying to work with the French. I know he's been in touch with President Chirac directly. If President Putin comes around and supports it, it's hard for me to see how the French can be the lone holdout against such a clear menace to world peace as Saddam Hussein.

There's Holbrooke -- who, remember, was the "from the left" panelist on this show -- helping with the wartime salesjob. Suggest that the Bush administration may be overstating the threat? No sir. As the episode went on, moreover, Holbrooke wanted to clarify that he didn't take this UN business too seriously and was happy to get behind a unilateral invasion:

My own view on this was very clear. It was highly desirable, but not essential that we get a new U.N. resolution. It was essential for President Bush to go to the U N, as it was for him to get that congressional approval. The American public and the international public want to see a international effort. But I stress, and here Jeane and I would agree, that if you don't get a new U.N. resolution, the Iraqi violation of the existing dozen resolutions is in fact quite sufficient to justify action against an international outlaw.

Asked specifically "can the administration now afford to essentially go without U.N. backing?" Holbrooke most certainly did not reply that his friend Kofi Annan had told him that the Senate's vote to authorize war made war unlikely. Nor did he reveal that, in secret, leading Democratic Party politicians had voted for the war as part of a nonsensical bankshot strategy to prevent war. Instead he said:

Let me be very clear. I think it's unlikely that we will have to act without the U.N. because the U.N., I believe, will, and let's be clear again, we're talking about Russia and France, I think the Security Council and the administration will reach an acceptable agreement.

But to go to your core question, which is absolutely critical, supposing that's wrong, and supposing Jeane and I mispredict and we can't get something acceptable. The administration and some of its allies including Great Britain and I believe Turkey and some of the Gulf states, will form a coalition anyway, and act under the simple fact that Saddam Hussein has violated 16 existing Security Council resolutions and is truly already an international outlaw. And to go back to the simple point, the Security Council resolution is desirable but not essential, it was essential to make the effort.

On some level, of course, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe when Hillary Clinton voted for the war, she was actually trying to stop it. Maybe she then didn't clarify during October that she thought invading would be a bad idea. SImilarly, during November she didn't clarify her view. Or during December. Or January. Or February. Or March. Maybe she kept her opposition to the invasion itself under wraps during the 2003 intra-party jihad against Howard Dean. Maybe she only felt comfortable revealing her secret plan to prevent war until after the war had become unpopular. Similarly, maybe Bill Clinton really did oppose the war, and only pretended to support it -- by, for example, urging blind faith in Tony Blair's decision-making just days before the invasion was launched -- as part of a clever plot to preserve the peace.

Similarly, maybe Holbrooke was relaying all these secret messages to Hillary and just lying to the public on national television. And Clinton's probably associated herself with other war supporters like Madeleine Albright, James Rubin, Michael O'Hanlon, Ken Pollack, etc. over the years as part of her clever ruse. Or maybe they were all pretending, too!

Later, during his February 10, 2003 appearance Holbrooke said:

As for the U. N., there doesn't need to be another Security Council resolution. 1441, one of the best resolutions ever crafted in the U. N. and hats off to Colin Powell and his colleagues for their diplomatic achievement, plus the preceding resolutions going back to 1991 are all the authority that's needed to take military action.

That, though, must also have been part of the secret plan. Or maybe Holbrooke intended to add "but just because we have that authority doesn't mean we should use it" and just forgot, throughout the duration of his Iraq-related TV appearance, to mention his deep misgivings about this war. On the other hand, secret opposition to the war would be hard to square with his "personal recommendation to them would be not to seek a second resolution, because 1441 and the previous resolutions going back to 1991 are all they need." Presumably, that's a recommendation to invade. Or as Holbrooke put it "act without the Security Council or don't act at all, and that's going to be the choice, the administration will have no alternative but to go forward. And the French are going to be trapped by the problem they themselves have created."

Note the brilliant sneer at the end: Silly French! Trapped by the problem of their own creation! I sure do pity them.

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Comments (50)

Frankly in the unlikely event that there are war crimes trials, it would give me great pleasure if Clinton and other war enablers were (after trial and conviction, of course) hanged alongside Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell and the whole stinking lot of them.

Great work Matt. I continue to be amazed at how Hillary has skated by her previous Iraq positions and not taken more flak for it. Ever since the "will she apologize" debate in the spring, her hawkish Iraq positions from 2003 to 2005 has not been an issue. Congratulations on being one of the few voices to continually point these facts out.

Well done Matthew.

Excellent work and Holbrooke deserves this.

The reality is Holbrooke, Pollock and O'Hanlon stood shoulder to shoulder in the runup to war.

Good callout.

"Ever since the "will she apologize" debate in the spring, her hawkish Iraq positions from 2003 to 2005 has not been an issue."

Huh? Not an issue? Yes, of course not, that is why her lead in Iowa has been so insurmountable.

Jesus, talk about non-reality based.

Post, however, is good.

Great post.

Speaking as someone who supported the invasion at the time, I think it's essential for these guys to show a little contrition and introspection.

Just lying about what they were doing on the most important foreign policy issue of the past 35 years doesn't seem to me to cut it.

"At any rate, it would be a lot easier for me to forgive the Democratic Party politicians and prominent operatives who helped sell the country on George W. Bush's disastrous war in Iraq if they would at least 'fess up"

It's just time for the Clintons to go.

Matt, you are just a kid.

The French, god bless them, do have a well deserved reputation for having an independent view on everything. It goes way back to Charles DeGaulle and his refusal to allow French military to operate under NATO command and his insistence on developing a nuclear war capability.

It is part of the national charactor for the French to have a French slant on every issue discussed between nations.

Holbrooke was just stating the reality based truth about a topic you know nothing about because of your youth.

You need to stop thinking you know everything and have nothing to learn from those with actual experience in the field.

Ken, you need to STFU for about two more decades until everyone forgets about Iraq.

Doing the bidding of your masters at the Atlantic, taking down the Dem front runner?

At least you should mention that Edwards has more Iraq war baggage than Hillary; he supported the war for two years longer than she did. Oh, but he apologized, so it's all better now.

The truth is *all* the Presidential contenders voted for the Iraq war.

I'm a big 'Hillary' supporter but this post certainly does give me pause. Of course, it could be argued that Hillary's vote reflected what a plurality of her constituents felt concerning the (supposed) threat posed by Hussein. It's also disheartening though; she was certainly one who, because of the media spotlight she would and could have garnered, could have made a very persuasive argument to be wary of Republican demagoguery on the issue. Instead, she decided on a 'safe' vote. I only hope that, if she becomes president, that she will redeem herself on this shameful episode in American history.

I think Hillary's vote in the fall of 2002 would be forgiveable if she went on record as opposing Bush's rush to war in early 2003. But, she didn't.

Obama is the only major candidate on record opposing the war at the time.

The French, god bless them, do have a well deserved reputation for having an independent view on everything.

Even so, the fact remains that in this case they were right and Bush was wrong.


I only hope that, if she becomes president, that she will redeem herself on this shameful episode in American history.

What are you smoking? There is precisely zero chance of that happening.

Great work, Matt. I am grateful to the French; though Sarkozy like Ken is a moron.

I see Matt misses the point yet again, which is that this demonstrates yet again that Hillary voted for the Iraq war resolution for political reasons (as did every Dem in the Senate with Presidential hopes; Obama was lucky enough not to be a Senator at the time) not policy reasons. (And she and her advisors won't apologize to Matt because they are more afraid of the flip/flop narrative than the anger of people like Matt.)

Hillary isn't a neocon, nor is Holbrook, or Albright (and I see in his list of people "around" Hillary's campaign Matt once again leaves out Wes Clark) and their foreign policy will not be markedly different from Obama's or Edwards.

If you don't support Hillary fine (I don't) but let's stop pretending a Hillary administration will be some sort of extension of the Bush years in foreign policy. That's rubbish.

oh..and to Ken? Even though I'm certainly a Francophile (being of French descent) I agree with some of the criticisms long voiced concerning French 'contrarian' stance to anything American but I listened to Chirac on the lead up to the war. It was not 'vive la France' blustering. On the contrary, he was passionately against this war because, wise man that he is, he knew what a dreadful mistake it was and would be. Say what you want about the French; they were right on this issue; 'dead' right, unfortunately

If you don't support Hillary fine (I don't) but let's stop pretending a Hillary administration will be some sort of extension of the Bush years in foreign policy. That's rubbish.

I agree. I don't think Hillary would be particularly hawkish. I do think she would be more hawkish than Obama, but she wouldn't be a raving lunatic like Bush and the Neocons.

If Obama wasn't running, I would be supporting Hillary. However, he is on record opposing the war. If you don't have any strong reasons to favor Hillary or Obama outside of this issue, then this should be the tiebreaker. People should be held accountable if they either supported the war for political reasons even though they knew it was wrong, or if they had poor enough judgment to think it was right. Either way, there's no reason to just excuse it.

"And she and her advisors won't apologize to Matt because they are more afraid of the flip/flop narrative than the anger of people like Matt."

That ought to tell you something about what her administration would be like, tdraicer.

Hillary isn't a neocon, nor is Holbrook, or Albright

Holbrook presided over a genocide in Timor. He's not a "neocon" (this is a term so badly misused I'm not even sure of your meaning) but he's someone that a sane nation wouldn't want messing around with the foreign policy apparatus.

Anyone who believes Hillary's vote was anything more than craven political calculation is a fool. It was obvious then and it's obvious now. Listening to her try to dissemble it away now that it's in vogue is truly nauseating, as is most of her equivocations and triagulation.


Just go back to her floor speech before the vote:

"It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

Now this much is undisputed. The open questions are: what should we do about it? How, when, and with whom?"

To my mind, there are two essential elements to a good Middle Eastern policy - which I'd define as one in which the U.S. stops overweighting the Middle East, and starts paying attention to other parts of the world. One is withdrawal from Iraq without quibbling - no bases, a much stepped down embassy, etc. - and the other is detente with Iran, leading to recognition. I don't think HC will do either of those things. I do think Obama and Edwards would. I think that's a pretty significant difference. Bush, according to the Washington Post, seems to think of himself as Truman and Hilary as Eisenhower - in other words, he thinks Hilary will embed his foreign policy in hers, the way Bill embedded Reaganomics into his economic policy. I think that Bush might be right about HC - which is why I dread Hilary Clinton as president.

At least you should mention that Edwards has more Iraq war baggage than Hillary; he supported the war for two years longer than she did. Oh, but he apologized, so it's all better now.

What date or time period are you using for when Hillary stopped supporting the war in Iraq?

The truth is *all* the Presidential contenders voted for the Iraq war.

Yes, especially the ones who weren't sitting Senators and loudly spoke out against it contemporaneously.

tdraicer-

The point is that these people are lying. They make decisions for the sake of political convenience and disavow them for the sake of political convenience. This dynamic, in an environment where liberals are still expected to support wars just to prove their foreign policy "toughness," leads to really, really bad foreign policy decisions.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for some people to grasp.

Attaboy Matt-

It was obvious as can be in October 2002 that Bush wanted the AUMF to clear the congressional-power-to-declare-war hurdle at an opportune time.

What do they take us for?

Agree with LaFollette. Regardless of why Clinton supported the Iraq war, she did. ANd whatever reasons led her to support it, whether they were political calculations or personal beliefs, will still be present if she is elected president. In this case, past performance is indicative of future results.

Getting elected president won't magically release the "true" Hillary that she has been forced to conceal for political reasons. If anything, it will make those political considerations even more powerful, since she'll be dealing with the entire country as an electorate rather than speaking from a very safe NY Senate seat.

"Maybe when Hillary Clinton voted for the war, she was actually trying to stop it." The first rule of Clintondom: you can at least have it both ways. You can be a serial adulterer, and support family values. Of course, voting for the war and trying to stop the war makes perfect sense. From a political standpoint, many of Hillary's constituents support the war. There's always a constituency that can be easily swayed. For them you're against the war; for them, you tried to stop the war – before the forces of darkness prevailed. And, without your vote they inevitably will. There's a recent post by Accuracy in Media, lamenting George Bush's recent concession to climate change. Accuracy in Academia is a Hillary owned subsidiary, for lack of a better term. Accuracy in Media shares the same suite as Accuracy in Academia. Both subsidiaries carry water for Hillary. Yes, the Clintons are bold deceivers. "In civil business; what first? boldness; what second and third? boldness; and yet boldness is a child of ignorance and baseness. -Sir Francis Bacon, 1597-1625 Use the Web Luke: http://theseedsof9-11.com

tdraicer,

The evidence that Hillary is a sincere hawk is considerable, though obviously neither one of us can know for certain what goes on inside Clinton's head.. But here is what I don't understand: why you and others think that it is a defense of Hiullary to say that she supported the war for political reasons? I mean, I'm as tough on the "sincere" war supporters as anyone - see above. But they at least have a defense at some level - they honestly thought that the war was a good thing (of course their reasons for such belief were criminal, and merit the extreme penalty set forth above, but that's a seperate issue). But even worse is supporting a war that you don't believe is wise or necessary for political reasons. That is beyond unforgivable - that's monsterous, even worse than Bush and his gang of war criminals.


The fact is that, in believing that Clinton is a sincere hawk, I'm not merely following the evidence, which I believes supports that conclusion, but I'm also giving her the benefit of the doubt. Supporting the murder of hundereds of thousands of people to advance your political career ... even Clinton isn't capable of that. Or so I hope, anyway.

Although I hate to defend Hillary, I don't agree that voting for the resolution was necessarily a vote "for the war". At the time, even Bush was making speeches saying he hoped to avoid war and given what most people believed at the time, i.e. that Saddam could come clean about WMD if he wanted to, once the resolution was presented to them, Congress could either pass it and abdicate the congressional responsibility to declare war, or weaken the US negotiating position vis-a-vis Saddam. George Bush is responsible for putting Congress in that no-win situation. Clearly, passing the resolution turned out to be a huge mistake for numerous reasons, but that doesn't mean that anyone who voted for it wanted to go to war.

I don't get it... It seems a messy job of fitting a possibly round peg into a vaguely square hole: detailing how Holbrooke's hawkishness makes Clinton a hypocrite.

Holbrooke, whatever his views, is merely explaining why he thinks Clinton is telling the truth. It seems likely that Holbrooke, had he been a Senator at the time, would have voted for the war because, as he demonstrates time and again, he liked the idea. That doesn't roll over, however, into how and why Clinton voted. Perhaps she did truly believe that Powell wasn't duped and/or duplicitous and truly felt that a strategic vote for the war would truly prevent the war. Stranger things have happened on the floor of the US Senate.

First of all: I think it's clearly documented that Clinton herself is hypocritical of her own war vote. I stopped listening to her and her surrogates spin after learning she didn't bother to read the NIE report. From that point on as a senator from NY you can see she simply felt compelled to support Iraq rather than pointing out we weren't done in Afghanistan.

Furthurmore, it's helpful to have posts like this trace out the mendacity of the Clinton campaign on this issue. I respect the hell out of Edwards for respecting voters and simply calling what his Iraq vote was: a mistake.

And finally, it was clear to me simply reading the paper this country was building towards war in Iraq no matter what came out of the president's mouth. It was obviously clear in DC circles and I can't help but think if Clinton didn't grasp that; she shouldn't be president. We've already lived through the results of that sort of denseness.

Petr- Holbrooke's comments (as quoted in this post) strongly indicate that he didn't want to avoid war and that he supported the UN Resolution because he thought it would lead to a war. In his speech he says that he knows Clinton was really trying to avoid war because of what he knew about the resolution, but what he said at the time suggests that he didn't believe the resolution would have that effect.

People who think Clinton, Holbrooke,Albright et aren't Hawks apparently have forgotten the 90s - Yugoslavia, Haiti, Somalia, missile strikes against Sudan,Afghanstan..

Even taking his current words at face value, his contention is that Hillary was rolled as badly as Powell was, so you can't blame her....

At least Colin Powell has resigned in shame.

More juvenile pablum from Matt, with the usual amens from the choir. Really disappointing nonsense based on rumor, innuendo, and the incredible ability of such people to read the minds of political figures from afar. Holbrooke, and Clinton were both extremely well acquainted with the entire decade-plus Iraq saga by 2002, and it would be nice if some of the people posting here would take a little time to read history before posting about it. They, like most other responsible officials at the time, did what they saw to be the right thing based on their careful study of the available information, as made extremely clear by all of them in the 2004 election. This was the referendum on the invasion, with all the cards on the table--everyone not in a coma knew by then that there were no wmd stockpiles, that we didn't have enough boots on the ground, and that Bush was responsible for enormous errors in the occupation. He won because million of voters rejected the kind of Deaniac babbling in evidence here.

No less a figure than international human rights hero, founder of Medicins Sans Frontieres and current French Foreign Minister Bernard Kuchner was furious with Chirac when he finally announced that France would not keep its word re:1441 "under any circumstances", making war inevitable. It was widely known at the time that maintaining the solidarity demonstrated by the unanimous approval of UNSCR 1441 was essential to avoid war. Given the support of his French collaborators, Saddam decided he could stonewall compliance, which Blix duly reported, and the rest is History. Does everyone here know that in 2002 Total/Fina/Elf signed a multi-billion dollar deal with Saddam in anticipation of the collapse of sanctions that would have allowed them to develop fully ONE THIRD of Iraq's petroleum reserves? Surely unrelated, and of no concern to the manifestly corrupt Chirac.

The simple fact is that up to nearly the last minute, Saddam could have pulled the plug on the invasion by following the diagram Blix had carefully provided him with for compliance. He refused, and bears responsibility for the consequences.

This meme shows serious signs of intellectual decomposition--the threads on it are getting worse, not better. Matt, for his part, has decided that he will intellectually bully anyone who would presume to contend that some senators who voted the force authorization in October 2002 actually hoped thereby to avoid war--to which I would respond, please go back and read their floor speeches at the time. And Robert Powell has decided that Saddam really could have dissuaded President Bush from his lunatic expedition by pulling a unicorn out of his ass and waving it in the air. You can't prove a negative, as was widely noted at the time (if insufficiently so). And Powell, since you feel so smugly that Saddam "bears responsibility for the consequences," I dearly hope you know where to direct the credit-card bill such that the deceased despot can make good on it for all of our sakes. Short of that, we've basically been screwed by George W. Bush's world-historically catastrophic leadership.

elle loco - while beating down Robert Powell is easy - how often is he going to combine the words juvenile and pablum to mean "non-delusional, or not suffering from premature senility"? - your defense of HC is harder, especially if it is based on some speech she made pre-war that you don't quote. Otherwise, asking people to look at the speeches made in 2002 is way too vague a gesture. To my reading, this speech outlines three options, two of which lead to war - either Saddam refusing to comply with some new resolution by the UN or the UN failing to pass one. Given the odds and outcomes she outlines, HC seems to simpy want it both ways: let's have a war, but let's make sure we have allies, but we probably won't have allies. Her speech, in other words, shows why she shouldn't have voted to authorize force. And it shows why that authorization would strengthen Bush's hand if what he was doing would lead to war.
It was pretty clear, even then, that authorizing force would most likely lead to the use of force. If HC couldn't see that, then really, she does not have the foresight to be a president.

Robert Powell-
I don't know what you're saying. Part of your comment denies the claim that Clinton and Richard Holbrooke, in 2002, supported invading Iraq. This would be the part where you call the post making that claim juvenile pablum. But then later parts just suggest that Holbrooke and Clinton actually thought invading was a good idea based on their careful study of the evidence. This is entirely off point, and very, very strange.

roger--funny on Powell, yeah.

On the October vote, this is only the latest iteration of a long-running discussion. It is my contention that many a mainstream Dem who wanted to avoid war believed, or wanted to believe, Bush and his henchpersons when they claimed repeatedly and ostentatiously that they needed the authorization to apply brinksmanship on Saddam--to get the weapons inspectors back in, restabilize our intelligence on just what the hell he had, etc.--and, hopefully, avoid war. The floor speeches of this rationale are on the public record. It is my contention that to blame these folks for the march to war and to insist that they "secretly" wanted this war is to let Bush & Co. off the hook for abrogating longstanding norms of foreign policy debate, advice, and consent, and for the egregious lies they spewed in railroading through this vote before the midterm election, braying about how they hoped to avoid war--all the while having decided the previous July that they sure as hell were going to do it, no matter how many senators they had to dupe and how many phony discussions about going to war or not going to war they had to sit through.... These people are war criminals who perpetrated a monstrous lie on us all, and to spread the blame around the senate floor is ahistorical, injudicious, and muddles the case for who is to blame for the huge price we are paying and will pay for this march to folly. Tha's all....

"Supporting the murder of hundereds of thousands of people to advance your political career ... even Clinton isn't capable of that."

Bwahahahahahaha!!! Now that was funny - you win the "Funniest post today" award.

Bet your ass Hillary would murder hundreds of thousands of people to advance her political career...

Powell: "it would be nice if some of the people posting here would take a little time to read history before posting about it"

How about, moron, if you bothered to discover that every single group of international law experts on the planet - including the Brits before Blair pressured his law counsel - declared the invasion of Iraq illegal?

Take your revisionist history lesson and shove it up your ass.

The UN inspectors were on the verge of clearing Saddam of any WMDs, everything Saddam had said to that point was true, and subsequently UNSCOM would have installed a monitoring system that would have prevented Saddam from ever having a WMD program - and Bush then pulled the plug, resulting in over a million Iraqi deaths, thousands of dead US troops, destabilization of the region, and a cost of a trillion or two dollars of taxpayer money.

And you moron, you think this is all justified by...what? Saddam was a "bad guy"?

Cretin.

All I know is that if a Republican like John Hostettler, of all people, had the good sense to vote against the Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq, then Hillary Clinton has no excuse. None. She needs to admit she was wrong, and that's that.

Captured Iraqi documents show that Saddam did support al Qaeda and the Taliban.

http://www.bothinonetrench.com/index2.html

WTF are you on about, Powell? The thrust of this post has absolutely nothing to do with whether Holbrooke or Clinton were "extremely well acquainted" with the issues in Iraq, or whether the decision to support the war seemed reasonable at the time.

The issue here is that even the most perfunctory glimpse at the historical record clearly shows that Holbrooke is now lying his very serious ass off about his reasons for supporting the AUMF. And, by implication, he's lying about Hillary's motives. At the time of the invasion, they both made it abundantly clear that they supported the invasion. Period. Any retroactive claims that they tactically supported the AUMF because they thought it was the best way to avoid war are a great big steaming pile of bullshit.

Besides, any foreign policy expert who is "extremely well-acquainted" with planet earth, and yet genuinely believed that the best way to avoid a war was to sign a no-strings authorization for a Republican President to start a war, is too blindingly naive to be left unsupervised on a playground, let alone entrusted with political power.

On a final note, Hans Blix most certainly did NOT report that Saddam was stonewalling him. Repeating your lies, damn lies, and alternate histories over and over again does not constitute evidence, pal.

The AUMF vote was a vote for war, and everybody in the Senate knew it at the time. In fact everybody else knew it as well. For Hillary to pretend she thought that George Bush was going to use the authority to avoid war is a flat out lie.

Her speech on the floor of the Senate supporting the bill was filled with every Republican talking point of the day. And despite a throwaway line about not believing in preemption, she ended the speech this way:

I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am.

Hillary didn't start opposing the war until well after most Democrats in Congress discovered that the war was unpopular.

Here's what she thought of John Murtha's original call for an end to the U.S. presence in Iraq:

"I think that would cause more problems for us in America."

"It will matter to us if Iraq totally collapses into civil war, if it becomes a failed state the way Afghanistan was, where terrorists are free to basically set up camp and launch attacks against us," she said.

It is my contention that many a mainstream Dem who wanted to avoid war believed Bush when he claimed that he needed the authorization to apply brinksmanship on Saddam and, hopefully, avoid war.

Democrats who wanted to avoid war voted against the AUMF and spoke quite clearly against it at the time.

The AUMF was worse than a vote for war, it was a vote that handed the president the right to wage war if and when he saw fit, without open public debate. It was a coward's vote. They didn't want to confront a popular president, but they didn't want to take responsibility for starting a war (and war with Iraq was not a popular idea in 2002). And now, most Democrats in Congress are still too frightened of taking responsibility to actually end it.

Congress has an obligation to declare war for a reason. There is no such thing as George Bush's War. It belongs to all of us, whether we like it or not.

This is indispensable, Matt. Great Work. Hillary had multiple opportunities to ask that the brakes be applied if, as she now claims, she secretly opposed the war; thought that Bush should have used the war authority solely to get inspectors into Iraq; and was dismayed that he did not let the inspection process play out.

If these were her secret view, she completely failed the nation as a leader by not using her immensely large public platform and media profile to call for Bush to hold his horses. Remember Tony Blair's foreign minister, Robin Cook?

He quit right around the time in early March 2003 that the invasion appeared inevitable even to that small percentage of the population who did not already see it that way months earlier.

Hillary made no public gesture, except to issue a press release the night Bush gave Saddam his 48-hour ultimatum. That press release expressed complete support for the President.

She is mendacious. She can't be trusted. Don't vote for her!

The choicest nugget of Tim Russert's interview of Cheney on Meet the Press at the time of the Iraq war vote was when Russert said, "What if our intelligence is wrong and there are no WMD?" Cheney answered: "Tim, nobody is saying that except the French". Guess what, the French were wrong, Cheney was wrong, and Hillary was wrong.

Robin Cook and Obama were right. Cook, in his famous resignation speech on around March 18, 2003, noted the inherent contradiction in the case for war--something that you did not need to read the NIE report to understand.

He said this:

Ironically, it is only because Iraq's military forces are so weak that we can even contemplate its invasion. Some advocates of conflict claim that Saddam's forces are so weak, so demoralised and so badly equipped that the war will be over in a few days.

We cannot base our military strategy on the assumption that Saddam is weak and at the same time justify pre-emptive action on the claim that he is a threat.

Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term - namely a credible device capable of being delivered against a strategic city target.

It probably still has biological toxins and battlefield chemical munitions, but it has had them since the 1980s when US companies sold Saddam anthrax agents and the then British Government approved chemical and munitions factories.

Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm a military capacity that has been there for 20 years, and which we helped to create?

Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddam's ambition to complete his weapons programme is blocked by the presence of UN inspectors?

Carl Levin spoke out against invasion in similar terms in early March. Hillary was, at most, silent. In fact, depending on how you parse some words she said to Code Pink, she actually took the position in March that further inspections were useless because you could not trust Saddam to be honest with the inspectors. Either way, she was either wrong or a coward. She could have made a difference. She could have tried to make a difference. She didn't. SHe should not be rewarded when we have a choice, Obama, who is not tainted by her cowardice or her awful judgment.

D'oh. I messed up the blockquote function. The block should extend all the way up till the words "Carl Levin." Sorry.

Great post. The sheer duplicity of these claims is breathtaking.

Jinchi--thanks for embodying the Manichaean left view of the October vote. Very effectively done!

Meanwhile, for the two people left reading here, I will stipulate that I do find Hillary's record on Iraq, from the vote forward, deeply troubling and inadequate, and I hope Richard Holbrooke never holds a cabinet position....

Jinchi--thanks for embodying the Manichaean left view of the October vote. Very effectively done!

Meanwhile, for the two people left reading here, I will stipulate that I do find Hillary's record on Iraq, from the vote forward, deeply troubling and inadequate, and I hope Richard Holbrooke never holds a cabinet position....

There is nothing in my post that implies Clinton and Holbrooke were opposed to invading Iraq. As most reasonably well-informed observers noted at the time, including those in France, the threat of invasion had to be absolutely genuine to support even the slim chance that Saddam would comply. That he did not was affirmed by Blix, as anyone who reads his easily available final report can clearly see.

The consistent problem those who are trying to re-write history run into is the facts, including the fact that it was not up to the international community, nor Saddam, to "prove the negative". The Resolutions made it absolutely clear that it was the responsibility of Iraq to disarm "pro-actively and transparently", and Blix laid out exactly what they had to do to fit the bill. They did not, he reported it, and those are the facts.

Attempts to cast this entire episode as being the result of some kind of devious plot cooked up in the White House are in the same league as those linking LBJ to the Kennedy assassination. It is pablum, and doesn't belong in serious discussion between adults.


Comments closed January 02, 2008.

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