At a minimum, I sincerely hope it is, because there's an awful lot of it on display:
I wonder if there were Christian missionaries among the dinosaurs.
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Ignorance is Bliss
05 Dec 2007 02:00 pm
Comments (65)
oy.
This is what happens when people spend countless hours each week, each month, and each year studying the bible and a middle eastern civilization that flourished thousands of years ago to the exclusion of all else. And then they have the gall to try to dictate to the rest of us that this is a "Christian nation" - simply because they don't know about and haven't bothered to learn about anything else.
Wow. You know when you're actually lowering the intelligence level on The View, you're really, really, really stupid.
I wouldn't say that they flourished. Their only successes compared to the other civilizations of the area and historical period is that they are around and that their main religious text informs (if that's the word) the religious beliefs of a good chunk of the rest of the world.
other than the creation museum and the flintstones, who said the dinosaurs were seen hanging with the missonaries?
I think my favorite part of this whole clip is the expression on Whoopi Goldberg's face. A look that says, "you can't possibly have said something that stupid."
The other nice part of the clip is Whoopi diplomatically trying to make Sherri Shepard look less ignorance, only to have Shepard make herself look worse.
I am somehow continually amazed that Barbara Walters, who in the past has purported to be a journalist, willingly and knowingly provides a forum for someone so insistently ignorant. This program truly makes me despair for Western culture.
Didn't christians used to believe that the stuff in what the call the 'Old Testament' come before the stuff in the 'New' one? Did someone go and switch the order on me?
I love Whoopi saying that there were things prior to Jesus "at least on paper."
This is the same woman who back in September said that she didn't believe in evolution and "didn't know" if the world was flat (the next day she said she had misspoken).
I don't see what the problem is. After all, it's perfectly obvious Jesus did predate everything else. There were Christmas Specials for both Star Wars and The Flintstones.
Stop talking right now, View women.
Bring Star Jones back. And not the skinny version!
Thank God for Whoopi, or that clip would show up in Will Saletan's next column.
As a result of this video's popularity, Sherri Shepherd is now polling at 13% among Iowa Republicans. Let's hear it for positive female role models on television!
Hey, Grand Moff!!
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Agave! Your very name suggests venal sin and corruption, for which your arrival is to be celebrated with ... I dunno, a tequila and condom piñata or something.
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This post is precisely the problem we face today. Here's an elite Harvard-educated leftist mocking people of faith, demonstrating once again that the East Coast intelligentsia is completely out of touch with the American people. If the Democrat Party wants to regain the trust of middle America, it simply will have to learn to put Jesus first.
Low hanging fruit, no?
It's so cute seeing them try to work out who came first.
Actually though, according to the Gospel of John, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," etc etc. "Word" being Logos in the Greek, which signified Christ. So her theology is spot on. Jesus came first. If you believe that sort of thing.
(Please note: I'm not debating the validity of Christian faith here, just stating some basics of the faith, and how it relates to that mess on the View.)
There are two different things going on here.
First, there's the human existence of Jesus, which occured about 2000 years ago. And He took human form to help us repair our relationship with God, so obviously, something happened before Jesus took human form.
Then there's the whole Alpha and Omega side, the begining and the end. The trinty, the one, always existed, even before Jesus took human form. That's a well stipulated tennent of Chrstianity.
So, from a Christain theology standpoint, it's correct to say Jesus existed - as deity - before all that other history, yet it's also correct to say there was lots of history before Jesus walked the earth.
lutton,
Did you listen to the video? She said "Christians" came first, not Jesus.
Also before anybody goes about praising Whoopi, remember that on this same program she stated how important it was to get rid of the estate tax. Furthermore, she stated that it affects everbody not just the wealthy.
There were Christmas Specials for both Star Wars and The Flintstones.
Life Day is in no way a cheap knockoff of Christmas. It's about, like, Wookies or something.
And regardless of whether or not you want to take the high-theology position that Jesus' spot in the Holy Trinity means that nothing predates him (er, "Him"), there certainly weren't Christians prior to (or concurrent with, for that matter) Jesus, the human incarnation.
She displays the childlike ignorance of someone who's never thought about why things are the way they are. She knows the word "Christian" and knows what the word applies to, but doesn't understand why we use that word.
That really is the thinking of a child. But children have a excuse in that they're still learning. She never bothered. And I'm guessing she's had the kind of life where she never had to think about things. It really is a sad existence to go that long into life with so little curiosity.
low hanging fruit
That and no shame anywhere.
It's almost spiritual.
Why do we allow people this stupid to access the benefits of modern civilization?
As I get older, the grouchier I get about the average American and the more I think that the civil contract between the citizen and the government should actually have some meat on the bones. If you want the benefits of access to America, then you should bloody well attempt to be a well-informed and knowledgable citizen--or least have more intelligence than a box of rocks, which this woman definitely does not have.
>>Did you listen to the video? She said "Christians" came first, not Jesus.
You know what, that sailed right by me. Atrios' post title "Jesus came first" stuck in my head, and I missed it.
Christians were actually very late to the party.
As my professor of folklore used to say, "If you don't know why you believe something, it isn't religion, it's superstition."
If I were a Christian, I'd be mortified by the numskulls representing me in the media. Sherri Shepherd? Kirk Cameron? Send in some Jesuits, stat!
Jesus potty trained the dinosaurs.
I think it's correct as a matter of orthodox theology that the Son existed before creation and outside time, consubstantial with the Father.
To believe that the Son is a created being is heretical Arianism.
When I was a kid I used to think that Jesus came after WWII because WWII movies were in black & white and Jesus movies were in color. And the only thing that confused me was why people went from wearing normal clothes to wearing sheets and sandals. And I'd sit there in church when they'd talk about Jesus' death and wonder why no one came with a machinegun to save him (and yes, I'm quite serious about that). All the same, I think that even then I was smarter than this woman.
And without a doubt, she's not the only person with this weird hang-up. I've definitely heard from Christians who believed that everyone was a war-like barbarian before Jesus came and showed the world they could be peaceful; somehow not understanding that there was established civilization for centuries preceding Jesus. Plato is spinning in his grave just thinking about it.
I've definitely heard from Christians who believed that everyone was a war-like barbarian before Jesus came and showed the world they could be peaceful; somehow not understanding that there was established civilization for centuries preceding Jesus.
There's a Christian "intellectual" who tours American college campuses year round to tell them that they can't have any laws or values unless they're scared shitless of his god.
I'm guessing he never studied history.
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Bill, the Logos scripture you cite does nto really get to the heart of the matter. You need to go deeper into the antisemitism of John to Chapter 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." (NIV or in the KJV ("Before Abraham was, I am.")
I'm convinced that this "Sherri Shepherd" person is really just Martin Lawrence getting in character for a run at Big Momma's House 3 à la Borat. People don't get that stupid by accident or coincidence. And who's the milf on the right?
I learned in the fifth grade about the Mesopotamians, and the Babylonians, and the Etruscans, and the Greeks, and the Romans. I learned what years (roughly) they flourished, which I don't recall offhand. But I do recall that all of those years had "B.C." after 'em. I'm pretty sure there was mention of what "B.C." stood for, if only to distinuguish it from the lame-ass comic strip.
All of this was in a public school in Canton, Ohio, by the way -- not some elitest prep school.
This is a level of ignorance that it beyond appalling. It's akin to not knowing that two and two make four.
I wrote the network and told them to fire this bimbo. There is no excuse for this kind of stupidity on TV.
"There is no excuse for this kind of stupidity on TV."
Au contraire, this kind of stupidity is what TV is all about.
As stupid as Sherri may be, she is still smarter than Tucker Carlson.
"And who's the milf on the right?"
Posted by Heywood J. | December 5, 2007 5:17 PM
I really don't care about who you would "lf" and find it offensive that you would refer to a human being in such a tasteless, self-centered, objectifying way.
Oh, Jesus, we're not allowed to say "milf" now? Or was that post supposed to be parody?
Posted by Jacqueline Mackie Paisley Passey | December 5, 2007 3:26 PM
The one and only?
I really don't care about who you would "lf" and find it offensive that you would refer to a human being in such a tasteless, self-centered, objectifying way.
What the hell is wrong with saying you'd like to fuck someone? There are tons of people I'd like to fuck. I've never thought about the precise number, but it would probably, in principle, range in the millions. What's wrong with that?
Isn't there anybody you'd like to fuck?
I really don't care about who you would "lf" and find it offensive that you would refer to a human being in such a tasteless, self-centered, objectifying way.
Look, if you don't know who she is, just say so...
I hate to admit it, but speaking STRICTLY from a theological standpoint ... she's right. Mainstream Christianity is of the opinion that Jesus does predate everything. This is because mainstream Christianity is of the opinion that there never actually was a time when Jesus did not exist.
It's a screwball notion, true. But it was largely the only way that the early Church Fathers could figure out how to reconcile worshiping God, the Magic Carpenter, and Space Ghost all at the same time without busting up the notion that theirs was a monotheistic faith.
One of the primary early rivals to mainstream Christianity did not believe this. They were called Arian Christians, and they don't exist anymore, having been cured of their heresy in the usual manner.
As has been noted, the problem seems to be that Sherri thinks that Christians as a people existed before everything else. So, yes, theologically speaking, Christ as a spiritual being has always been, but there were no "Christians" until relatively recently. Which is covered in, like, the Bible or something.
this may be heresy, but is it possible that she did it simply for the reaction. seems to be a pretty commonplace ploy these days. hell, i had no idea who she was before this. perhaps she and The View got just what they wanted. there is no shame to take into account.
and it's true, Jesus ran a dinosaur nursery, this was after who hand-molded, for the most part, geology.
"God, the Magic Carpenter, and Space Ghost" sounds like one of those Sid and Marty Krofft shows I watched when I was little, though they had greater intellectual content than this "View" exchange.
I always thought the Trinity sounded like one of those concepts the Church cooked up to seem profound, but were actually completely meaningless--"mysteries" they called them. Humbug.
I'd like to point out that I was the first to point out what everybody keeps pointing out, that Christians are supposed to believe Jesus existed before Time. I'm about to conclude that Sherri Shepherd or whatever is a D.D.
I really don't care about who you would "lf" and find it offensive that you would refer to a human being in such a tasteless, self-centered, objectifying way.
Look, if you don't know who she is, just say so...
(lol)
And btw, those who are quoting her as saying "Jesus came first" are quoting the clip that Andrew put up on his blog, where she does say that.
"And who's the milf on the right?"
Kate Walsh, who I strongly doubt is losing much sleep over the thought that blog commenters might be objectifying her.
I read Indian Vedic medicine (including Yoga) is well over 5,000 years old. 30 centuries before Christians. Wikipedia says evidence for civilation goes back nearly 10,000 years ago, 80 centuries before Christians. Romans and Greeks are pups.
In the description field at the YouTube page, it notes that this arose on "The View" during a discussion of Epicurus.
Am I the only one whose main reaction to this was "Whuh? They're discussing *Epicurus* on The View?!?"
I always thought the Trinity sounded like one of those concepts the Church cooked up to seem profound, but were actually completely meaningless--"mysteries" they called them. Humbug.
Actually, tri-partite deities were pretty common aspects of pagan mythology
I'd objectify Kate Walsh all night long.
"God, the Magic Carpenter, and Space Ghost" has entered my lexicon, my heart, forever.
Thank you Internets, for your endless bounty.
Thanks for the clarification, C.L. I thought she looked sorta familiar, but only through osmosis. She's one of the Grey's Anatomy hotties, right?
You know who I'd really hit (and this is for OM's benefit) is that Katherine Heigl. I loves me some Heigl like a fat kid loves cake (waiting for a certain insufferable twit to whinge at my insensitivity to the pudge-challenged, as well as my crass objectification of extremely hot women).
OM:
I really don't care about who you would "lf" and find it offensive that you would refer to a human being in such a tasteless, self-centered, objectifying way.
Get off your cross, sweet cheeks -- the rest of us could use the wood. Unless, of course, you were just joking, which for Christ's sake you had to be. Right?
"God, the Magic Carpenter, and Space Ghost" has entered my lexicon, my heart, forever.
Word up. That is freakin' brilliant. Wish I'd thought of it.
I think it's correct as a matter of orthodox theology that the Son existed before creation and outside time, consubstantial with the Father.
To believe that the Son is a created being is heretical Arianism.
And to believe that the Son is a separate deified being is Tritheism.
And to believe that God is only one person is Monarchianism.
You can go on down the line. Few things in history are as tortured and ridiculous as orthodox Trinitarian Christian theology. One being that is three beings, completely the same but fundamentally different too.
"God, the Magic Carpenter, and Space Ghost" has entered my lexicon, my heart, forever.
Enh, that's nothing. The old CB slang (back when CBs and truckers were cool) for the trinity was "JC, Big Daddy, and the Spook".
I don't know, but I'm sure Fr. Bernard MacGuigan, S.J., who taught 19th century history and literature in my Freshman year and did his best to convince me that religion and a cultivated mind were not antagonistic, who even spent a few classes on evolution and Teilhard de Chardin, the Alpha and the Omega points of history, etc, would be rolling over in his grave. Don't worry, Googy. I may lose my faith but I'll never consent to be stupid.
And you think Transhumans are nuts?
Got news for ya, chimps. With examples like this, you ain't long for this planet.
Trust me.
By the way, did anybody mention that Jesus was a good Jew and the last thing in the world he wanted was to found a religion that would persecute his own people in his name for the next two thousand years?
I mean, this could only happen among humans. You can't make something like that up.
Cranston
In the description field at the YouTube page, it notes that this arose on "The View" during a discussion of Epicurus. Am I the only one whose main reaction to this was "Whuh? They're discussing *Epicurus* on The View?!?"
No - you are not! It is rather spooky!! Especially when you consider that Epicurus was the first to prove that there are no gods to ponder about and that religion makes you freaky.. having Jews/Christians/Muslims discuss 2300 years later if there was "religion" before Jesus is utterly bizarre. As somebody has said before - people could not invent this?
For years now - I have had to read fragments of Lucretius' poem at least once a month to get ma fix... For example - after watching The View and before finding your comment here...
Who is skillful enough to produce an adequate poemabout the magnificent world and these discoveries
about it? Does anyone so use language that he can
praise appropriately the man [Epicurus] who made
these discoveries and left them for us?I think the subject beyond an ordinary mortal,
for to put things in the way so superb a subject
demands, Memmius, a person no less than that deity
who first discovered the explanation of life
which is now called wisdom, and who had the ability
to rescue life from all its storms and darkness
and put it down in a calm and brilliant light.
.Compare what he did with what the other gods did.
In the time when people felt the weight of religion,
wallowing upon the ground and—a ghastly spectacle—
heaven scowled down upon them and showed no mercy,
a Greek man was the first to raise his eyes,
daring to make a stand against it.He took no notice at all of the thunder and lightning,
religious recitations merely incited him;
He said he would expose the secrets of nature
and so, by force of intelligence, and no other,
he pierced beyond the flaming walls of the world,
paraded up and down the whole immensity
and returned victoriously with explanations for everything
—what could happen, what not, and what were the limits,
all fixed and measured, of every nature and thing.
and so he had religion under his feet.
That is why the "church" has burned everything they could find...
Indeed. Transhumanism is basically Gnostic attitude combined with Greek rationalism.
Who Past the age of 14yr is unable to see the fraud that is Christian Religion? Is fear of death really so terrible? Can anyone realy buy the goods being sold? Why Must we in the New World be saddled with superstitions from the Middle East, dreamt of Before and during the rein of Rome and built upon for centuries exeeding 2000 years as if we were absolututely with out sense or vision. I need one of you to explain...
Comments closed December 19, 2007.
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Heads in the Sand
This would seem to go a long way toward explaining the phenomenon you note in your previous post.
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Posted by Grand Moff Texan | December 5, 2007 2:08 PM