Schiphol Security

Commenter Sam responded to yesterday's post on comparative airport security:

Counterpoint: The Schipol airport had more security than any I've ever been through, including Ben-Gurion. They quizzed, bugged and pestered me a lot more than people at Reagan do.

The quizzing is true. I was standing right by the gate and got a pretty serious third degree -- I didn't have a good, brief explanation of what the conference I'd been attending was about ("it was about progressive America" "what does that mean?" "um...") and kind of thought I'd be locked away. That said, they let me get away in the end, things actually moved very speedily and the security personnel were much friendlier than Americans.

Comments

The worst grilling I ever got was from UK customs, arriving from the Republic of Ireland.

Go figure.
.

Posted by Grand Moff Texan | December 21, 2007 12:53 PM

Getting a connecting flight back home via Schiphol last year proved to be an absolute nightmare. Worst airline-related experience I ever had.

As far as security went, I don't recall it being especially problematic either way.

Posted by Elio M. García, Jr. | December 21, 2007 1:01 PM

traveled on biz to the netherlands maybe 40 times in the last 15 years -- never more than a perfunctory hello and what are you doing here and for how long? Then again I've always been in business garb while traveling -- it also didn't matter if traveling in business class or coach.

I have been "pestered" at a Guatemalan checkpoint -- you know the ones with automatic weapons loaded and ready -- while having my passport reviewed trip by trip for more than 2 hours by a clearly antagonistic border guard -- and I travel overseas alot for business -- flashes of "midnight express" were running through my mind.

Posted by mike c | December 21, 2007 1:06 PM

I'm with Elio: I am an American, and I traveled through Schiphol on the way somewhere else in the EU twice about a month ago (but stopped and left the airport both times, so it wasn't just transit), and I noticed nothing unusual whatsoever in the security procedure, and I've been traveling a lot lately. I also had a bad experience on one of the occasions, but it had nothing to do with security, and had the side benefit of letting me see Amsterdam for the first time, unexpectedly, so I dasn't complain too much.

Posted by Martin | December 21, 2007 1:09 PM

The Schiphol quiz is only for flights to America; from what I understand, it was done at the request of the US government.

Posted by cure | December 21, 2007 1:15 PM

The quiz is only for flights to the US, and it comes up at other European airports, too- I once had a very pleasant 20 minute chat getting ready to board a flight to the US in Copenhagen with a security woman. Intra-European flights don't get that sort of attention at all, and I once flew to Shanghai on KLM from Schiphol, and there were no questions then either, other than making sure there was a valid visa.

Posted by Kevin | December 21, 2007 1:27 PM

I've been thru Schipol a coupl of times, haven't noticed anything unusual. But in any case it can't be worse than the Ben-Gurion. An hour of a third-degree (where exactly have you traveled and why, what hotels did you stay in and why, what company did you rent the car from and why) followed by the second hour of the same, exactly the same questions asked by a different person. That was something.

Posted by abb1 | December 21, 2007 1:36 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure whatever you experienced must be a flights-to-America only thing. Been through Schiphol twice in the past two years, both headed for Canada, and security was a breeze both times... positively pleasant compared to the standard North American experience.

Posted by BruceR | December 21, 2007 2:25 PM

"The worst grilling I ever got was from UK customs, arriving from the Republic of Ireland.

Go figure. "

Really ? Given that the UK and Eire are a free travel area, neither UK customs or immigration should be asking anyone anything when they arrive from the republic.

I've certainly never had to pass through a check when coming back from the republic.

Posted by kb | December 21, 2007 2:40 PM

I think the podium interview is a flights-to-the-US thing, and what's unnerving is the pointedness, by comparison with the security theatre in the US.

Schiphol is designed for high-volume, high-security travel, though, and US airports have been struggling to deal with architecture that left screening till late, and allowed non-travellers to the gate.

I'd still much rather fly into Europe through Schiphol than London's airports.

Posted by pseudonymous in nc | December 21, 2007 2:46 PM

Really ? Given that the UK and Eire are a free travel area, neither UK customs or immigration should be asking anyone anything when they arrive from the republic.

Uh, this was back during the first Bush administration. So I'm old, so kill me.
.

Posted by Grand Moff Texan | December 21, 2007 2:54 PM

Jorge Chavez Airport in Lima gave me a pretty good grilling before I could enter the gate to get on the plane. A bunch of questions in Spanish about the purpose of my visit, how long I stayed, where I stayed, which was then carefully checked against my documentation.

That was in 2007. In 2001, the security was even more intense.

Posted by Dilan Esper | December 21, 2007 3:02 PM

The questions may seem pointless. They're not really interested in your response but in the mannerism in your response - whether you are nervous or being extraordinarily deceptive. And they're also looking at minute inconsistencies in the "story" to flag something else going on. This is stuff the Israelis have been doing for years.

Posted by Pan | December 21, 2007 3:56 PM

Traveling with my partner through Schiphol, we got the third degree the first time when we didn't mention our relationship (must have said we were "friends"), and then a year later were basically waved through when we came out right away as "partners." Apparently two twenty-something men traveling together tip all sorts of profiling alerts unless they're a gay couple.

Posted by Brittain33 | December 21, 2007 4:14 PM

Really? I just got into Schiphol yesterday and they didn't say a word, just stamped my passport, and I'm not even white which in Europe usually means more questions in my experience. Maybe it was because I'm Canadian and I was arriving from France, another Schengen country?

Posted by Harlley | December 21, 2007 6:09 PM

I got my lighter duly confiscated once, and you really cannot buy a box of matches, so I got 10, for 30 Euro-cents. One the way back to US I was informed by airport security guy in London that only "safety matches" are allowed, so he confiscated both boxes that I had in my pockets, and I managed to avoid jolly rejoinder "ah, never mind, I have many more in my knapsack" that was moving in parallel through X-ray machine. Later I had a smoke, and another box confiscated during the second check for US-bound passangers. When I reached Philadelphia, I was down to 7 boxes.

I am so old that I recall how during my student years I had a friend who needed sulphuric acid for some chemistry experiment, so when I visited a neighboring country by plane, I was returning with a pint of concentrated stuff with me on board. Almost as good as "Kill Bill" scene with airplane passengers armed with katanas.

Posted by piotr | December 21, 2007 6:19 PM

It's definitely a flight to US thing. All of them have an extra security check at the gate. They have a special part of the terminal for this. I travel a lot with a very heavily stamped passport, and after a few questions they just let me go. I can imagine that if you are not much of a traveler, you might get more of a third degree than I do

Posted by ftkyte | December 21, 2007 11:52 PM

'Uh, this was back during the first Bush administration. So I'm old, so kill me. '

Apart from the war years it's been a free travel areas since the 20's but on checking, whilst it's free for irish & UK nationals (and now EU citizens) they do reserve the right to check citizens of other countries. So i was wrong and they can (and obviously do) check some people. I've just never been aware of any checking (if any) going on.

Posted by kb | December 22, 2007 1:39 AM

I've been thru Schipol a coupl of times, haven't noticed anything unusual. But in any case it can't be worse than the Ben-Gurion. An hour of a third-degree (where exactly have you traveled and why, what hotels did you stay in and why, what company did you rent the car from and why) followed by the second hour of the same, exactly the same questions asked by a different person. That was something.

Maybe they know a little more about you, Abb1, than you think, e.g.:

a lot of folks think of Israel as an illegitimate entity that should be wiped out for the indigenous population to be able to come back home and achieve self-determination they are entitled to.

http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/22/legitimate-targets/#comment-165672

Or...

Quite simply: in the eyes of most people the state of Israel is the worst offender on earth. Isn’t it a good reason for ceaseless vituperation?

http://crookedtimber.org/2004/07/24/tariq-ramadan/#comment-36537

Posted by Giles | December 22, 2007 7:42 AM

Um, Giles, brother, it's kinda obvious that the Ben-Gurion security has something to do with the (undeniable) fact that a lot of folks think of Israel as an illegitimate and offending entity. That's exactly why Ben-Gurion airport had been brought here for the comparison.

Do you have your own Ben-Gurion experience you would like to share, or your whole purpose here is to publicize my humble views? Let's be clear on one thing here - I'm not paying you no matter how hard you try. But thanks anyway.

Posted by abb1 | December 22, 2007 8:09 AM

I'm not your brother, Abb1, but it's also "kinda obvious" - and ironic - that the intrusive Israeli security you describe has something to do with your visit to the "offending entity" having been accomplished without your being blown up in a café. And what, may I ask were you doing, supporting such a vile "entity" with your tourism (that was the purpose of your visit, wasn't it)?

Posted by Giles | December 22, 2007 10:34 AM

Why, I was visiting my friends and family members, do you mind?

Yes, there's a reason for security, but as I was trying to explain in the quotes you posted there's also a reason why cafes are being blown up. Since I see that you can follow the cause-effect link in one case, it's weird that you can't do the same in the other case.

So, is there any point to this? You are outraged by my claim that the Schipol security can't possibly compare to the Ben-Gurion security, and to refute this claim you bring my comments on the I/P conflict, is that it? Does it mean you think that I'm lying about my Ben-Gurion experience and that in reality it's much more pleasant and friendly? Or you disagree with my take on the I/P issue and want to discuss it here? In that case, I created a thread for you; you can go here and tell me what you think.

Posted by abb1 | December 22, 2007 11:13 AM

Don't flatter yourself that I care about your experiences at Schipol or Ben-Gurion. The purpose of my interjection in this thread was to inform otherwise innocent readers about the virulent biases of one particular commenter. E.g.:

Abb1: The word ‘anti-semite’ currently doesn’t have much of a meaning at all. It’s simply used to insult anyone who disagrees with the wingnut apologists of the Israeli wingnuts.

The above and similar sentiments earned our interlocutor a ban from Henry Farrell on (the left-wing and hardly pro-Israel) Crooked Timber blog.

http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/#comment-165901

Or, from a previous thread on this blog:

These (Israeli academics) are people who help maintain a criminal, oppressive and very dangerous regime, that has been causing all kinds of troubles to the rest of society: terrorism, extremism, millions of refugees

http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/07/boycotting-the-boycotters/#comment-199879

Posted by Giles | December 22, 2007 12:52 PM

How is it "virulent biases", it's either true or no true. I maintain that both statements are true.

1. the word "antisemitism" is most often used to describe critics of Israel and Zionism who have nothing in common with the antisemites and
2. most of the Israeli academics are not, as many in the West assume, opponents of appalling and racist Israeli policies.

I believe it to be true; if you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me, I'll gladly change my mind.

But why would any of this be relevant to the airport security discussion?

Posted by abb1 | December 22, 2007 1:10 PM

Context.

Posted by Giles | December 22, 2007 1:21 PM

Btw, "otherwise innocent readers" is a beautiful phrase, it made me laugh.

Why do you think that the otherwise innocent readers will find my statements as objectionable as you do? They might not, you know.

Free advice: you might want to enlist some help from the perhaps otherwise not so innocent readers of the LGF community.

Posted by abb1 | December 22, 2007 1:25 PM

What context, what are talking about? Do you have something to say, or is it just something you feel? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, I do, but how can I help? Maybe you should stop reading blog comments.

Posted by abb1 | December 22, 2007 2:03 PM

I read this blog, I read Crooked Timber (I read Josh Marshall, I read Norm Geras...). I don't read LGF. Their virulent style seems more congenial to yours. You deserve each other.

Posted by Giles | December 22, 2007 2:08 PM

Sorry about the style, but that's natural, blog threads often turn polemical

Posted by abb1 | December 22, 2007 2:22 PM

I don't remember being interrogated at Schiphol (a couple of years ago, flight to Logan), but they did detect all of my cigarette lighters. This never happens anywhere else.

Does anyone else remember way way back when arriving in the US (on a US passport) and going through passport control and customs was almost a non-event? This process had become much more upsetting than any security screening I've experienced.

Are people really not bothered by federal agents asking them who their employer is or what the "purpose" of their travel was? Who are they to allow me to enter my own country?

Posted by Zapatiotis | December 22, 2007 4:03 PM