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All The Pretty Communists

31 Jan 2008 12:47 pm

One genre of journalism I'm always very suspicious of starts with the observation that there appears to be a trend toward such and such, tosses off maybe an anecdote or two, then leaps to a broad sociological explanation of the trend's existence. Missing is any effort to quantify the extent or reality of the trend itself. Case in point, Anne Applebaum's article about how capitalism causes hot Russian women. She starts by saying that in the 1990s, one started to see a lot of hot Russian women around whereas "Whatever you may say about the Soviet Union in the 1970s and '80s, it was not widely known for feminine pulchritude." I looked it up and someone who has "pulchritude" is, roughly speaking, an attractive person. Thus the time has come to answer a question posed by a male friend of Applebaum's "where were they all before?" Her answer:

Though this is a fairly frivolous question (OK, extremely frivolous), I am convinced it has an interesting answer. To put it bluntly, in the Soviet Union there was no market for female beauty. No fashion magazines featured beautiful women, since there weren't any fashion magazines. No TV series depended upon beautiful women for high ratings, since there weren't any ratings. There weren't many men rich enough to seek out beautiful women and marry them, and foreign men couldn't get the right sort of visa. There were a few film stars, of course, but some of the most famous—I'm thinking of Lyubov Orlova, alleged to be Stalin's favorite actress—were wholesome and cheerful rather than sultry and stunning. Unusual beauty, like unusual genius, was considered highly suspicious in the Soviet Union and its satellite people's republics.

This seems really, really dubious to me. Among other things, the contention that "there weren't many men rich enough to seek out beautiful women and marry them" seems oddly gullible about Soviet claims to have created an egalitarian paradise. Surely there were high-ranking powerful party officials to seek out beautiful women and marry them. The idea that the Soviet entertainment industry was entirely insensitive to the basic principles of attracting an audience seems, likewise, bizarre. Zhanna Prokhorenko playing the love interest in Ballad of a Soldier certainly seems like an attractive woman to me. Here's a review essay for the Criterion Collection release of the film:

Besides rejecting political rhetoric and monumental, classical cinematography, the films of the thaw also rejected the sexless, puritanical Soviet representation of love on the screen, reclaiming the body and a youthful, healthy sexuality––rather modest by today’s standards, but liberating for the times. After changing his mind on using the professional actors he had cast, Chukhrai picked two very young, unknown acting students, matching a prototypical, blond, open-faced, and handsome Russian everyman with a (Ukrainian-named) Slavic beauty; her luminous eyes, pouty lips, full figure and long glorious hair are often filmed with a halo effect. In one of the film’s most poignant scenes, Alyosha’s and Shura’s faces and her billowing hair are superimposed over the pure Russian birch forest the train is passing as they are finally able to exchange their unspoken expressions of love.

Most likely, the change Applebaum is trying to explain is just something that hasn't actually changed. Instead, part of the Cold War dynamic was that most of the Russians a Westerner might see or interact with were government officials, who tended to be middle aged men rather than attractive young women. The idea that the Communist Party somehow managed to create a society in which "there was no market for female beauty" is pretty fantastical -- about on a par with the notion that the Party was going to create a New Soviet Man.

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Comments (93)

Anna Kournikova is a much better example of Russian pulchritude in my opinion. Not as good at tennis, though.

Could the answer to this conundrum be that Anne Appelbaum is a natteriing hack ?

applebaum's always good for the moronic observation delivered in the guise of an argument.

What about all the beautiful Russian spy temptresses from the movies? Is she going to tell me those were just all fiction?

I agree it's highly dubious. It also contradicts the principles of evolutionary psychology, which state quite unequivocally that high-status men compete for beautiful women and vice versa. Perhaps not politically correct, but plenty of data backs it up.

A good layperson's introduction to evolutionary psychology is the recent book "Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters".

There is always a market for female beauty.

Clearly Applebaum has never seen a photo of Svetlana Kuznetsova, who more than cancels out Maria Sharapova.

The Soviet Union wasn't known in the US for feminine beauty in the 1970s and 80s - but that was mostly a function of US media propaganda. It is true that cosmetics and nice clothes were in short supply in the East bloc, but the basic slavic genetics were already in place, and if you spent time there you probably noticed. Observe also that there has apparently been no uptick in attractive East Germans in the last 20 years.

Also, (calling Steve Sailer) the 80s era stereotype of unattractive Russians may derive from the fact that most emigres to the US were Jewish, and at least in my experience, Russian and Ukrainian Jewish women don't tend to be extraordinary beauties.

You had to look up "pulchritude"? You went to Harvard and you had to look up pulchritude?

Sheesh.

Alternatively, there's a bigger market for Russian beauty. It's not that there weren't Russian beauties before; it's just that they did spend a lot of time in the West.

Let me get this straight. You are actually wasting time trying engage seriously with something Anne Applebrain wrote? Good heavens, why??

Just because Applebaum's article is completely conjectural doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated as a treatise of the utmost gravity. After all, it's been almost a full week since any major blog published a post debunking Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism," and we readers are sorely in a need of a new barrel to shoot fish in.

There is no capitalist-beauty gene. The U.K. has been capitalist for years and there ain't a lot of lookers here, let me tell you.

God, the stupidity.

Did Applebomb even consider that the reason is the US propaganda story line about the Soviet union?

That only ugly people lived there because they were COMMIES?

Maybe Applebaum is suffering from the capitalist stupid gene? You know, because there is no dictator to cull the weak, the stupid can survive alongside the clever and successfully blog. Stalin would never have allowed this to continue.

I get giddy anticipating the hundreds of millions of Chinese women just waiting for the proper market conditions to become hot.

Surely the Defenders Of The Market will apply the same statistical rigor to this as they do to proposals for Universal Health Care.

Better reading comprehension, please, Matthew.

Applebaum wrote: "Whatever you may say about the Soviet Union in the 1970s and '80s, it was not widely known for feminine pulchritude."

Matthew retorts: "Zhanna Prokhorenko playing the love interest in Ballad of a Soldier certainly seems like an attractive woman to me."

Uh, what year was Ballad of a Soldier released? 1959? Was that during "the 1970s and '80s"?

Whatever. She's hot.

I just noticed there's a post underneath the picture. How long has that been there?

Also, note that the review that Matthew quoted notes that the film is one of "the films of the thaw". Which actually BOLSTERS Applebaum's point, rather than detracting from it.

The Soviets allowed a greater emphasis on feminine beauty during a period when they became closer to the West. Which is exactly Applebaum's point: closer to the West = more emphasis on beauty.

I think Applebaum wins this one.

> Let me get this straight. You are actually
> wasting time trying engage seriously with
> something Anne Applebrain wrote? Good heavens,
> why??

An excuse to do some "research" on Russian dating sites at the office?

Cranky

Uh, what year was Ballad of a Soldier released? 1959? Was that during "the 1970s and '80s"?

All right then, how about Natalya Bondarchuk?

In any case, that doesn't really change the fact that the thesis is absurd. The capitalist economy only ensures that the beautiful women (and men) are better-known to us. I traveled to the Soviet Union in the late 80s, and I can assure you there were plenty of beautiful schoolteachers, bureaucrats, etc.

What Ash said.

Al, surely Applebaum's reasoning would apply to the reigns of Stalin and Khruschev? Or is it something specific to the Brezhnev era?

But Applebaum probably has a point here, though probably not what she intended. Beauty is an enormous industry almost completely untethered from nature, and the mass-production of beauty (both in defining beauty and in inducing demand for that definition) is something that a capitalist economy will probably be better at than a command economy. Of course someone like Roland Barthes or John Berger will have a far more convincing explanation of how this all works than one of the glib just-so tales of the neo-social Darwinists.

I visited the Soviet Union in the late 1980s as an exchange student, so I should have been at ground zero for finding hot young Soviet women. There weren't that many. There weren't that many good looking men either. You know why? Everyone had bad clothes and bad personal care products. The shampoo made everyone's hair stiff and bristly. People had BO and bad breath. No one had a decent hair cut. You know what endeared me to those merely moderately attractive young Soviet women? Western cosmetics. Did they become hot once they applied the magic cosmetics? No, because they used way too much of them. And they still had bad haircuts and bad clothes. The lesson, I think, is not about the "market for beauty" but the "market for beauty aids." Apparently all the money we spend on this stuff actually has an impact.

Funny, I just did a longish piece on the use and abuse of data when applied to finacial markets.

The key question is, how many "beautiful" women are there relative to the total population.

Unless you have done the math, the supposition is a waste of time.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/01/fun-with-data-a.html

"Let me get this straight. You are actually wasting time trying engage seriously with something Anne Applebrain wrote? Good heavens, why??"

Ezra Klein pulled Megan McArdle duty this week.

AL,
You are an idiot.
Irony of Fate - 1975 (Barbara Brylska)

The capitalist economy only ensures that the beautiful women (and men) are better-known to us. I traveled to the Soviet Union in the late 80s, and I can assure you there were plenty of beautiful schoolteachers, bureaucrats, etc.

I travelled to the Soviet Union in 1986. As I recall it, the women were not anywhere near as attractive as in the U.S.

I don't see how Matthew's contention can possibly be true. Is he really trying to argue that the West's fashion industry and media saturation have no effect whatsoever on the overall focus of our society on beauty? I find that difficult to believe.

To me, it is undeniable that a society with huge industries focusing on beauty will simply be more focused on beauty than a society without those industries. It is really odd to see Matthew think otherwise.

The other issue is, how much of our perception of Soviet women was shaped by negative Cold War stereotypes?

Although really I just mention that as an excuse to link to this classic Wendy's ad.

This article is moronic for the various reasons listed above (illogical, ignorant of Soviet popular culture, naive about human psychology, traffics in cold war stereotypes, seems blind to the lives of ordinary people in Russia / the Soviet Union, etc).

The broader point here, though, should be that here he have a US "expert" on Russia who traffics in ignorance, stereotyping and illogic. On this topic, it doesn't really matter. But the scary thing is that Applebaum also writes about important topics such as NATO expansion and some people seem to take her views seriously. After spending a bit of time in the FSU myself, I realized that most US journalists who write about the area don't have an especially good handle on the place (there are some exceptions). Not that that makes me a great expert - one thing that comes through is that the facts on the ground are complicated and there are lots of things that I don't understand well at all. But I've seen enough to know that folks like Applebaum are often just full of it.

All right then, how about Natalya Bondarchuk?

Da, tovarisch.

Capitalism has not only made Russian women hotter, it's given them the online-porn market where they can profit from their hotness.

Viva capitalism!

Da, tovarisch.

Um, if you look at the picture of Bondarchuk in the link (supposedly her best role), it ain't no comparison to the picture of Sharapova posted by Matthew. Bondarchuk isn't ugly in that picture, but she sure isn't what I'd call beautiful either.

Which, again, goes to bolster Applebaum's point, rather than detract from it.

About Matthew's point about party officials being interested in female beauty and marrying them: it may not be that simple. By the fifties at least, one would have to be in one's forties to be a powerful official, and by that time one was already likely to be married. Of course the Soviet Union had divorce, but there was such a thing as party discipline. Unless you were at the very top, you couldn't simply divorce your wife (and it was almost always a wife) and marry someone else simply because she resembled Raquel Welch. The party would tend to frown on that. Getting a divorce and marrying a younger woman wouldn't be like going to church or demanding Daniel and Sinyavsky be freed, but it would probably complicate one's rise in the party. There's always adultery of course, but it's odd how little of that seems to be in the Communist leadership. Examples of promiscuity and indeed depravity seem to be limited to the very top, like Beria, Mao or Yezhov, at the height of teror. There are examples of nepotism and corruption within families, like Brezhnev, Ceauscescu and the Kims, but there doesn't seem to be many breaches of bourgeois respectability in post Stalin Russia.

U.S. women of ethnic russian background have always been extremly attractive. Maria Sharapova would be a good example (She grew up in the U.S). I knew a super-hot women who I thought was a normal American, turns out she immigrated from Russia at a young age (or her parents were Russian, I'm not sure).

So I'm sure the USSR was teeming with hotties, just that this moron didn't see them. People can be amazingly idiotic sometimes.

Actually, beauty transcends cosmetics.
Now back to Barbara

Don't forget Tatjana Samilojova (star of The Cranes are Flying), who looks like a Russia Audrey Hepburn, and Solaris' Natalya Bondarchuk.

Homely product of oppressed worker's paradise: Katerina Witt.

Beauty created by the flawless free markets of the West: Tanya Harding.

That occured to me one paragraph into Applebaum's article. Saved me from reading the rest of it, I'm pleased to say.

Al, I traveled to the USSR in '87 and all I got were complaints about this american dude the previous year lookin for hot women to marry and bring home to the US.

The american dude was so ugly, they hid all their women folk.
His name was Al.

A few commenters here have said something like "I went to Russia back in the Soviet era and didn't see any hot chicks." The reality is that Russians, both men and women, strived for Russian ideals of beauty and not American ideals of beauty. The idea that Russian women could not possibly be hot back in the day is stupidly, and naively, ethnocentric.

Anyone living near a large Hispanic community can see this at first hand. many Hispanic women strive for an ideal of beauty is significantly out of the American mainstream - with regard to clothing and, in particular, the amount of makeup used. There is nothing wrong in them doing so. But Anne Applebaum would never had her article published in Slate magazine had she written it about Hispanic women instead of Russian women.

Could it be as simple as diet in addition to the market for beauty.

Anyone who has lived in the Mid-West and California both knows that the Beach Boys were just making shit up when they wrote 'California girls'. By and large a beach culture puts a premium on physical fitness, there are real social penalties for getting even to a normal weight still less overweight. If California women saw the average dinner the way my Indiana grandmother cooked it they would probably faint. But there was less social penalty for being plump in Indiana and the market delivered the expected result, women who were on overage heavier.

Russian diets in the 70's and 80's may simply have transformed young beautiful women into overweight 30-50 year olds. We have a lot of Russian immigrants in my city and that seems to be the pattern, the young women are more often than not attractive to beautiful, while their mothers make you have second thoughts about that marriage proposal.

The Russian women most typically seen today are tennis players and perhaps gymnasts and ice skaters and in recent decades all have put a huge premium on beauty. Anna Kournikova had no business in some of those tournaments based on her standard of play. But she drew onlookers plus publicity so 'exemption here you come'. Not all women tennis players are beautiful by conventional standards but I would have to think long and hard before I could come up with a modern star that wasn't at least attractive. It may be as simple as skating dress, bathing suit and tennis skirts, the more glamorous the sport the higher the standard of beauty.

(Tanya Harding wasn't hideous, she was just brought up in an environment that was closer to rural Indiana than coastal California and it showed.)

This is a frivolous topic, but what the heck. I went to the then-USSR in the summer of 1987 with a high school basketball team. There were more than a few atttractive women.

As an aside, I actually met Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel in Tbilisi, Georgia during the trip. Joel was doing a concert in Russia.

(Methodoligcal note: I did not count Brinkley for purposes of my assessment of the attractiveness of the women I saw in the Soviet Union.)

Homely product of oppressed worker's paradise: Katerina Witt.

"When she was Eastern Bloc she had the devine taste of forbidden fruit. Now she's just another chick with tight pants and a nice skater's butt"

Young slavic women have always been attractive, but they turn into older slavic women who've always been dumpy. That's the stereotype, and we've always had it.

I had two Russians claim they have more beautiful women than Western Europe (its true, I've been there) because the Eastern Orthodox church never had an Inquisition or Reformation that caused large numbers of hot women to be errr....burned. Anyone else hear this?


I visited the Soviet Union in the late 1980s as an exchange student, so I should have been at ground zero for finding hot young Soviet women. There weren't that many. There weren't that many good looking men either. You know why? Everyone had bad clothes and bad personal care products. The shampoo made everyone's hair stiff and bristly. People had BO and bad breath. No one had a decent hair cut. You know what endeared me to those merely moderately attractive young Soviet women? Western cosmetics. Did they become hot once they applied the magic cosmetics? No, because they used way too much of them. And they still had bad haircuts and bad clothes. The lesson, I think, is not about the "market for beauty" but the "market for beauty aids." Apparently all the money we spend on this stuff actually has an impact.

This commenter hits on some important points. The important thing about capitalism is not that it creates a market for hotness- that's just asinine. But it does tend to create wealth. And wealth leads directly to hotness. You need a good diet when you're young, plenty of time to exercise and access to western care products, if you're a woman. Moreover, the top of the pyramid is formed by people in the fashion industry. The lengths those women go to to stay hot are absurd. They wouldn't do it if it weren't going to attract insane levels of prestige and wealth, which it most surely did not in communist Russia.

I'm not sure there was that much difference in communist Russia b/c Russia's economy didn't exactly explode upwards after going Democratic, but to the extent that people are better off, I would expect more hotness.

Communist Party somehow managed to create a society in which "there was no market for female beauty" is pretty fantastical

You're wrong. See China, Cultural Revolution, unisex Mao suits. Sure a few elite still get to enjoy the female beauty thing. But you can actually do that to a great portion of a society for a good spat of time, as we saw it done in China.

The Soviets are a more nuanced case because they still bought into creating a Western type of society. It was an eventual embarassment to them that they couldn't provide the prettifying goods, it wasn't that they were trying to do away with the human desire for them.

Hot? German, Russian, Dutch gals that grew up playing sports and have smoking hard bods. But not as attractive & stunning as Czech, Hungarian, Portuguese, some Northern Italian, Danish, and Swedish woman, IMO.

Outside Caucasians, the Hawaiian and Tahitian race-mixing makes for some very beautiful women. Brazilian & Columbian women look better than Mexicans and tend not to pack pounds on as soon as a wedding ring is put on them. Thais and N Indians are very attractive.

Just my preference, but I don't find "classic black" women attractive at all. They look like a primitive variant of humanity. But East Africans with more "Caucasian-like" physiques and features? Yes, attractive to me...

You're all wrong. Well, Applebaum is kind of right, but for the wrong reasons. Just before the fall of Communism (mid-to-late-80s), there was a big increase in commercialized porn in the USSR. This only picked up during the first few years after the fall.

So, markets liberalize at pretty much the same time that the country is flooded with porn. Hmm, wonder what kind of new-fangled goods are going to be offered to Russian women? Wonder what there ideals of beauty are going to become? (Hint: They are going to be offered slutty-looking clothes and makeup, and Russian women--especially the younger ones--are going to think this is what attractive women are suppose to look like). They start to diet (well, this is an English translation of "why eat when you can smoke a pack of Marlboros and not feel hungry?") to look thin like the porn girls that they see.

Is it any wonder that young American men like Matt think that thin women that dress and make themselves up to look like porn stars are attractive?

NB: This cultural trend hasn't really changed. One of the biggest surprises was sitting on a Sochi balcony and seeing a family (mom, dad, daughter, son) going out to dinner. The mom and 13 year-old daughter wear wearing pretty much the same thing -- a tight, midriff-bearing shirt and Daisy Duke cutoffs that left at least 50% of the cheeks bare. A 13 year-old girl. Out with her mother and father. I asked my Russian friend if that was usual, and he shrugged his shoulders and said "that's just how Russian girls dress these days." Similarly surprising was going to the bathing suit shop so the wife could get a suit. She tried in vain to find one that wasn't a thong bikini. Hundreds of bathing suits -- and there wasn't a single one-piece or even non-thong to be found.

Weird seeing BR comment here. And Will Allen earlier today. Worlds colliding.

@Bruce Webb

That is what my sister saw in Estonia, women once married became extremely overweight when they were much thinner prior to marriage.

women once married became extremely overweight when they were much thinner prior to marriage.

Doesn't that apply to women (and men) the world over?

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think Applebaum's claim is mockable, but not so broadly as MY seems to think.

If you look at some of the mail order bride sites there is another reason for good looking Russian women. Due to the relatively low life-expectancy of Russian men, there is a relative oversupply of women. I saw one figure of 88 men per 100 women. Since the culture is still traditional, women are expected to marry by their mid 20s. This leads to competition by appearance, since there are more women then men. Sort of like China's little princes in reverse.

Surely there were high-ranking powerful party officials to seek out beautiful women and marry them.

But that's part of the problem--Totalitarian states, communist or otherwise--are a very dangerous place to be a beautiful woman, because beautiful women become targets for the appetites of powerful men, with no rights or recourse to protect them from being abused and misused by those men. So mothers discourage their daughters from showing their beauty, in order to protect them.

RE: Al @ 1:50

Different strokes for different folks. I completely disagree. Then again, following Applebaum's logic, I could easily say that you've been steeped in the marketing of airbrushed, bleached, silicone-enhanced beauty for so long that you're incapable of distinguishing natural beauty.

Yes, that's a silly argument. So's Applebaum's.

If Applebaum is correct, this would explain how Yugoslavia, being the most prosperous of the Communist bloc countries, was known for having the most beautiful women. However, as a conterargument, despite the economic damage and isolation suffered by yugoslavia during the 90s, their women remained beautiful if not became moreso.

I hate this kind of twisted spawn of Freakanomics. Slate represents everything that is wrong with this kind of pointless smart-assery.

Your broader point is EXACTLY right, Matthew, and it drives me nuts. Journalists create trends with no data and then go on to "explain" those trends (also with no data, but even if they had the evidence it wouldn't matter, since they haven't demonstrated the trend actually exists!). Responses to the journalists' arguments focus on whether the explanation makes any sense, rather than pointing out that the thing to be explained doesn't even exist. It happens in politics, too, and it's a great way to shift the frame of the debate in your favor. Can't stand it.


Here is a clip from a 1979 Russian made-for-TV movie that quite a few ex-Soviet-bloc folk claim to be among their favorite movies ever. Shortly after I landed in North America I made my newly acquired Canadian bf watch it, and he declared the featured actress 'the most beautiful girl' that he had ever seen. This was in 1992, but I still remember it, as it kind of pissed me off. The male lead (who appears about 2 mins in) was a popular standard of male hotness. I'd take him over Robert Redford any time, but perhaps that's just cultural conditioning.

Also, Barbara Brylska is Polish and Anne Applebaum is full of crap.

As a formerly hot man who was in the fashion industry in the 80's let me tell you that the few Soviet girls we began getting in the late 80's were smoking. And really amoral. I used to set up friends with stunning Russian models and my friends who were pretty good on the NYC scene would freak out with horror over over how "inconciente" these girls were.

What happened is that the window on Eastern Eurpoean women in the U.S. did not open up til around '87. Prior to that, trips to St. Petersburg, Budapest, and Prague were required to enjoy all that beauty.

The Ukraine girls really knock me out, they leave the West behind. Those Moscow girls make me sing and shout. That Georgia's always on my -my-my-my-my-my-my-my-my-mind.

I hate to break it to you all and please don't take it personally, but the most striking thing that almost all foreign observers notice instantly when they visit the US is the incredible number of overweight and obese people and that obviously includes women. Generally this is not thought of as attractive, so it's a bit laughable when US feminine beauty is held up as the gold standard.

Take a look at the last section of photographs in the new book about WWII on the Eastern Front, "Absolute War" by Chris Bellamy (Knopf). There's a very cute Soviet Army traffic cop dirfecting traffic in or new Berlin in 1945 with a big smile on her face. And the Soviet female fighter pilots aren't bad either.

Take a look at the last section of photographs in the new book about WWII on the Eastern Front, "Absolute War" by Chris Bellamy (Knopf). There's a very cute Soviet Army traffic cop dirfecting traffic in or near Berlin in 1945 with a big smile on her face. And the Soviet female fighter pilots aren't bad either.

Dear not actually russian,
Also, Barbara Brylska is Polish
The last time I checked Poland in the 1970's was part of the Soviet Union.

One genre of journalism I'm always very suspicious of starts with the observation that there appears to be a trend toward such and such, tosses off maybe an anecdote or two, then leaps to a broad sociological explanation of the trend's existence.

You've just described about 98% of the articles at Slate. The deeply serious piece they did examining sitcoms with fat husbands and sexy wives was an especially boneheaded nadir of that type.

A little potpurri: Natalya Bondarchuk is half Russian. As "Ivan" said in season 2 of the wire "Why call me Ivan. I'm not Russian, I'm Ukrainian." Poland got moved west after WWII but wasn't part of Russia until Jerry Ford Freed it during that debate in 1978.

To the point. Al is an idiot, but not as big an idiot as Anne Applebaum. And isn't she married to a Pole? MY needs to do research on whether Poland is in Russia or Germany.

Dear not actually russian,
Also, Barbara Brylska is Polish
The last time I checked Poland in the 1970's was part of the Soviet Union.

- BlindJoeDeath

No it wasn't.

BlindJoeDeath,

Poland was part of the Soviet Bloc, but not part of the Soviet Union.

The last time I checked Poland in the 1970's was part of the Soviet Union.

You might want to check again because you were wrong last time.

Does the internet cause dumb American female pundits? I don't remember so many when I lived here in the 80s but now we have Anne Applebaum, Gail Collins, Meghan McArdle, Michelle Malkin....

Though this is a fairly frivolous question (OK, extremely frivolous), I am convinced it has an interesting answer.

The last time I checked Poland in the 1970's was part of the Soviet Union.

Erm, no. That would have been the Warsaw Pact. Also had you told e.g. an Armenian or Estonian member of the Soviet Union back then, that actually he was Russian, you might have gotten yourself into a bit of trouble. But thanks for the laugh.

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the west behind
The Moscow girls make me sing and shout
And Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

Oh, show me round your snowy
mountains way down south
Take me to you daddy's farm
Let me hear you balalaika's ringing out
Come and keep your comrade warm
I'm back in the USSR
Hey, You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the USSR
Oh, let me tell you honey

It's times like this when you'd like Mark Ames and the eXile to have a blog response, even if you'd probably need to take a shower after reading it.

Certainly, Applebaum's phoned-in pseudohypothesis isn't any less contrived than this 'theory of dyevolution', which makes a cod evo-biol argument that blames it all on the casualty count of WW2. Except that Applebaum is meant to have credibility.

I want to make a comment about Harvard women but feel I should refrain.

Wow, 'not actually russian', those Soviet 1970s TV movies musta been pretty damn psychedelic!

"Surely there were high-ranking powerful party officials to seek out beautiful women and marry them." Actually, if half the anecdotes about the heads of the Soviet secret police are to be believed, they didn't seek out and marry attractive Moscow women - they kidnapped, raped, and murdered them. So there's an argument it would have been simple self-preservation for Russian women to appear unattractive.

In a related note, the other day, Russia's most famous female bodyguard was murdered. I think her existence must support Applebaum too...

Very silly indeed. But I must say that you Mr. Yglesias seem like the kind of blogger who would not only already know what "pulchritude" means, but have used it several times already in various posts.

Yeah, sure, those Slavic and East European women may be hot and all, but what part of the world has more of the best women chess-players? Huh?

I seem to recall that the 1980 SI Swimsuit edition featured a Soviet model from the Ukraine named Irina Gerasimenko (seen here), who was certainly in the tradition of Sharapova and Anna K. Hired to capitalize on that summer's Olympics from Moscow, she was all set to be the cover girl when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, causing the magazine to instead go with a then-obscure model named Christie Brinkley instead. Gerasimenko never appeared in the magazine again, and returned to obscurity.

The thing about Applebaum is that she makes a lot of moronic statements. A lot. And has been doing it for years.

I used to know a guy whose dad used to go to Belarus a lot for business. One time he went to this one town where the water supposedly makes all of the women beautiful. When he just got into town and was taking a cab, he noticed a hot brunette and said to the cab driver, "wow, she's hot." He laughed and said, "actually, she's the biggest dog in the village." I have no idea where in Belarus this is unfortunately.

Applebaum's basic schtick is to take a seed of a decent point and run with it to the point of absurdity, much like Christopher Hitchens. She also had that weird column about a month ago about wanting to fake her own death. She is an odd woman.

"Russian women--especially the younger ones--are going to think this is what attractive women are suppose to look like)"

Attractive women ARE supposed to look like porn stars (although they could cut down on the makeup somewhat, since porn stars tend to overdo.)

Anybody who ever looked at the mail order bride catalogs out of Russia and Eastern Europe over the last three decades would know there were plenty of attractive women in those countries.

Does anybody think all the recent hot models from Eastern Europe are some kind of genetic mutants or entirely produced solely by Western cosmetics? Please.

Granted, the lack of an adequate fashion and cosmetics market in some countries may have made many women less attractive than they could have been, but I suspect the lack of media access in those countries was the more likely culprit. You simply did not see enough of the population to make a judgement.

I actually don't like Sharapova much because I've seen closeups of her face, and she has a severe acne problem (or did last I looked.) But them, so did Britney Spears - long before she went nuts, too.

One theory I heard was that WWII had depleted the male population of Russia and Eastern Europe so badly that over the next few decades the gene pool was sufficiently changed that more attractive females emerged from the marriages that took place. I have no idea if this is correct or not.

Basically, again, I think it was more the economic changes in Eastern Europe that opened up more opportunities in fashion, modeling, entertainment - and, yes, porn - that allowed the West to SEE the women who were always there.

Certainly, a huge percentage of the babes on porn sites are from Eastern Europe, paralleling the increase in their influence in modeling.

Half the supermodels in modeling today are either from Eastern Europe, Russia or South America. You can hardly find an American model on the runways any more outside of Josie Maran, Marisa Lee Miller and a few others. Most of the rest have names ending in -ova (Natalia Vodianova, Adriana Sklenarikova, Daniela Pestova) or Latin names (or Latins with German names like Gisele Bundchen.)

"Missing is any effort to quantify the extent or reality of the trend itself."

And how exactly do you quantify a subject like beauty? I also find it strange that so many would dismiss attractiveness as a frivolous subject. It's hugely important in our society, in almost every society. Sharapova is paid many millions more than say Henin, simply because she is more attractive.

Still I think the simpler answer to the phenomenon is the model of Anna Kournikova. Hotness by itself is more than enough to draw attention, but if you're hot, and can do anything marginally well (even softball), then the world is your oyster.

A more interesting question. Why are there so few attractive female athletes that we make a big deal out of the few that are?

Edward, while she didn't belong to the creme de la creme, Anna K. was actually an exceptional tennis player (Junior European and World champion at 14, Wimbledon semi-finalist at 16, career high: number 8 in singles and number 1 in doubles). Had she not been, nobody would have cared, because she wouldn't have had a presence on TV and there are tons of girls who look like her.

"One genre of journalism I'm always very suspicious of starts with the observation that there appears to be a trend toward such and such, tosses off maybe an anecdote or two, then leaps to a broad sociological explanation of the trend's existence."

This is also the modus operandi of the New York Times Style section. Man date, my ass.

Someone whose last name, incidentally, ends in "-ova" had an interesting response to Applebaum. Boy, this lady is pissed off.

Someone whose last name, incidentally, ends in "-ova" had an interesting response to Applebaum. Boy, this lady is pissed off.

Natasha Fatale tempted the hell out of Bullwinkle way back in the 60's.

Royko,

That ad is exactly what I thought off when this topic came up. A true classic.

And this is pretty much all from personal experience and a small sample size, but I've seen plenty of male fat Russian drunks, but far fewer, if any, fat Russian women.

Might be more of that competitive dating market in action, if Russia truly does have a shortage of men, relative to women. Which was no doubt true in the 50s, but probably isn't the case for Russians of Maria Sharapova's generation.


Comments closed February 14, 2008.

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