« Obama NYC | Main | Out of Touch » Hawks for Hillary29 Jan 2008 12:13 pm Paul "al-Qaeda is totalitarian so we should fight it by invading Iraq" Berman wants Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic nominee. So does Alan "everyone who disagrees with me is an anti-Semite" Dershowitz. And of course she's already secured the support of Kenneth Pollack and Michael O'Hanlon. Got my links from Ari Berman. Comments (45)
Dershowitz is a HUGE jackass. Does that make me an anti-semite? 
Hussein Obama is bad for Israel. Good thing he's not running there.
Wow. This is really making my spite vote difficult. On the one hand, I'd love to make David Brooks and Andrew Sullivan cry by electing Hillary. On the other hand, you have the potential to get Paul Berman and Alan "torture warrants" Dershowitz have their dreams dashed by electing Obama. It's a tough choice.
You mean Chicken-Hawks for Hillary.
That's "Alan "torture warrants for Arabs and Muslims" Dershowitz," Tyro.
Dershowitz is the new Julious Striecher. A pic of HRC and him together could generate millions of new voters for Obama. Or some artistic rendering of the gruesome twosome headlined: The Torture Twins, or Eretz Israel Forever! Berman is a nonentity. J-Pod has more cachet.
Vulture is a better term than hawk for people who leave all the killing to others while they sit waiting for yet another carcass.
Dershowitz is a HUGE jackass. Does that make me an anti-semite? No, just an idiot.
I like that SLC's link points out the absurdity of its own interpretation of Obama's words, and then continue to offer that interpretation without reservation. In brief: 1. Obama suggests the Palestinian concerns about having a noncontiguous state are legitimate. (Sounds reasonable.) 2. To accomplish this by the most straight-forward means possible, one would have to cut through Israel. (True.) 3. This would indicate a bizarre worldview whereby the Palestinians deserve a contiguous state but the Israelis do not. (I suppose it would.) 4. Obama supports the division of Israel into two for the benefit of the Palestinians. (Ummm, what?) One of the curiosities about geopolitics is that "legitimate concerns," such as they are, get allayed in a lot of ways. Welcome to the real world. Actually, the fact that the article goes on to do the whole Obama-Muslim thing is proof positive that this crap is truly pernicious rather than stupid. Israel Insider sounds like Fox News, but more paranoid. SLC is known to disagree with the commentariat here regarding U.S.-Israel policy, but rarely have I had cause to think "troll" before now.
Tyro, "It's a tough choice." I would imagine so, for someone like you who bases his choice on "Who do I hate more?"
She has pretty much all the Mideast "usual suspects" in her camp. It's telling. Even though her statements on Israel/Palestine and Iran are not that different from Obama's, the Commentary-iat all suspect that deep in his heart Obama would be an honest broker and she wouldn't. Marty Peretz is the one neo who is not with Hillary. But that is because he is such a hater (and he hates both Clintons) that he must go with his hate rather than his love for the Likud version of Israel.
From Berman's endorsement. Devious, is she? Unprincipled? Out for Number One?--so many ways of saying, a canny politician. I cannot imagine that, in American politics right now, canniness is something to dread. Yes, canniness is exactly what we need after the Bush administration. It amazes me how transparent the Clintons are now.
Gah! Dersh is a bigger pustule than even I had suspected. From Berman's links: What do you do when somebody wants to publish a book that says you're completely wrong? If you're Alan Dershowitz, the prominent Harvard law professor, and the book is Norman Finkelstein's Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History, you write the governor of California and suggest that he intervene with the publisher--because the publisher is the University of California Press, which conceivably might be subject to the power of the governor. . . . But if you're Alan Dershowitz, you don't stop when the governor declines. You try to get the president of the University of California to intervene with the press. You get a prominent law firm to send threatening letters to the counsel to the university regents, to the university provost, to seventeen directors of the press and to nineteen members of the press's faculty editorial committee. A typical letter, from Dershowitz's attorney Rory Millson of Cravath, Swaine & Moore, describes "the press's decision to publish this book" as "wholly illegitimate" and "part of a conspiracy to defame" Dershowitz. It concludes, "The only way to extricate yourself is immediately to terminate all professional contact with this full-time malicious defamer." Dershowitz's own letter to members of the faculty editorial committee calls on them to "reconsider your decision" to recommend publication of the book. Dersh then denied writing the Governor, until he was nailed for it, and then denied trying to stop the publication of the book. Pathetic excuse for a human being. Invertebrate and vicious.
[second para should also be in italics]
Lieberman on just said on MSNBC that if McCain is elected he will campaign with him against the Democrat.
Texan, Yeah, you sure nailed that. Who are we to doubt that a publication as fair and balanced as The Nation has presented the facts of the case accurately?
Who are we to doubt that a publication as fair and balanced as The Nation has presented the facts of the case accurately? I think you meant "who are you," although the answer to that is clear. You are the guy who lacks a factual basis for contesting the details of an article you probably didn't read.
Okay, douchebag. Here's the Jerusalem Post on the matter:
That a right wing Israeli hawk source enough for ya?
That a right wing Israeli hawk source enough for ya? I think you just ruined Chicken's throne-sniffing session, you big meanie.
Must... Not... Feed... Trolls...
Must... Not... Feed... Trolls... Way to contribute to the discourse, man.
Paul "al-Qaeda is totalitarian so we should fight it by invading Iraq" Berman... If you're going to snark about how silly Berman and the neocons who cite him are, you should exhibit a baseline understanding of their views. Berman believes there are two main branches of the Islamic totalitarian recrudescence: radical Islamism and pan-Arab national-socialism. Prominent representatives of these are al Qaeda and Baathism, respectively. Berman feels both these movements need to be fought. Therefore, to target the latter, he supported the invasion of Iraq.
My understanding is that Alan Dershowitz helped destroy Norman Finkelstein's academic career by pressuring DePaul University into denying Finkelstein tenure, See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein#Tenure_denial_and_resignation Personally, I think a mediocre school like DePaul would have been lucky to have a scholar like Finkelstein (Princeton, PhD). DePaul faculty actually seemed to want Finkelstein, but were overruled by the administration.
Personally, I think a mediocre school like DePaul would have been lucky to have a scholar like Finkelstein... Yeah, what a shame. Maybe they can get Ward Churchill... I think he's available.
Re Trevor "Dershowitz is the new Julious Striecher." Mr. Trevor is the new Josef Goebbels.
One might also check with the parents of Ronald Goldman re their views on Alan Dershowitz's defense of OJ Simpson.
Yeah, what a shame. Maybe they can get Ward Churchill... I think he's available. Ward Churchill documented Dersh's plagiarism too? Must be some kind of club.
Mini-Marty is sniping about Matt & Ari over at TNR, btw. It always cracks me up when even the presumably more hawkish commenters there treat him with open contempt.
Kirchick is attacked over there (and Yglesias defended) by a commenter called "Androscoggin." I think Matt needs to Sister Souljah Androscoggin ASAP.
Sigh, doesn't it occur to anyone in the blogosphere that if you keep stoking a false dichotomy of Hillary the DINO hawk vs. Obama the liberal progressive peacenik that you are hurting the centrist foreign policy bonafides that Obama has worked so hard to get? Same on the economy, stupids. If he's the candidate, remember that you might want him to be able to win in the general election.
Sad Likudnic Clot is treif.
Texan, I don't need a basis to contest claims of fact that were never substantiated in the first place. You're just blindly assuming that the author of the Nation piece is presenting the situation accurately because it flatters your prejudices to believe that.
"rarely have I had cause to think "troll" before now." You're late to the table. BTW, hi, MJ! Remember me? Tell Josh I still don't "despise Jews" - just hypocritical, intellectually cowardly, "crypto-Zionists" like him...
"Dersh then denied writing the Governor, until he was nailed for it, and then denied trying to stop the publication of the book. Pathetic excuse for a human being. Invertebrate and vicious." Somebody tell Matt's nemesis, Natalie Portman.
Re Grand Moff Texan 1. The big lie about the alleged plagiarism of Prof. Dershowitz just keeps going. As the late and unlamented Josef Goebbels said, if one is going to lie, make it a big one, tell it loud, and tell it often and eventually people will come to believe it. And of course, the left wing Israel bashers on this blog are the biggest believers. It's not surprising that a piece of filth like Norman Finkelstein would perpetrate this lie against Prof. Dershowitz, as the latter documented Finkelsteins' associations with Holocaust deniers and varied antisemites such as Don Black. This matter was investigated by appropriate parties at Harvard and found to totally without foundation. But of course, Finkelstein, taking his cues from the swift boaters, keeps on perpetrating it for the credulous. 2. It would be greatly appreciated if those who are criticizing Senator Obamas' alleged pandering to AIPAC would point out just which points that he made consist of this pandering. For instance, he stated that the Palestinian refugees will not be resettled in Israel. Since there is not the slightest possibility of any such thing occurring, he is merely stating the obvious. Not even James Earl Carter would disagree with this.
Artappraiser, I don't know where you get the idea that Clinton is being condemned as a hawk and Obama portrayed as a peacenik. It's been fairly clear to most of us - well, maybe not Matt, but that's no surprise - that Obama is as much a hawk as Clinton - and equally as ignorant about foreign policy (although a case could be made that Hillary isn't ignorant, just as malicious about US FP as Bush.) You're right that Obama should NOT be portrayed as a peacenik. But it won't matter. Obama's problem is that the AIPAC crowd simply don't trust him, compared to the other candidates. In a recent appraisal of the candidates by Haaretz, Giuliani came in as number one, Clinton as number two, McCain number three, Romney and Thompson got some points, and Obama came in dead last - which is why he's pandering. Ha'aretz Rates the Candidates By the way, since Giuliani is on the way out, that leaves Clinton as the AIPAC crowd's favorite candidate - even over McCain. Think about that - and the impact of a war on Iran - before you consider voting for Clinton. Of course, if it's a Clinton/McCain contest, fergeddaboutit - war with Iran is inevitable.
RE John-Paul Pagano "Personally, I think a mediocre school like DePaul would have been lucky to have a scholar like Finkelstein... Yeah, what a shame. Maybe they can get Ward Churchill... I think he's available" A comparison of Norman Finkelstein and Ward Churchill is very unfair to Ward Churchill. Re Richard Steven Hack Gee, the blogs favorite bank robber and ex-con weighs in again with another pile of crap. He considers Prof. Dershowitz a pathetic excuse for a human being. That's rather fine coming from a thug who stuck a gun in some bank tellers face and suggested that the latter empty the cash drawer on pain of termination with extreme prejudice. Maybe Mr. Hack could have beat the charge if Prof. Dershowitz had been his defense attorney.
Yeah, well, as explained in my other post, there was no round in the chamber and bank employees are instructed to always cooperate with robbers. So nobody was going to get hurt if I could help it. Meanwhile, SLC and Dershowitz and that crowd got a million Iraqis killed and 4,000 US troops killed and a score or more thousand maimed, and four million Iraqis displaced, at a cost of one or two trillion dollars. So I'd say "moralists" like SLC have a considerably bigger "moral burden" than I do - given that I only got $1,400 and nine years in the joint. I'd happily spend another nine years in the joint if I was to be accompanied by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Perle, Wolfowitz, etc. Especially if SLC was there - I could make him my bitch - which should be easy since he seems to be AIPAC's bitch.
I have a hard time trying to muster up sympathy for either Finkelstein or Dershowitz. They both have an agenda and neither of them will ever let facts get in the way of that agenda. However, if the question is "Did Dershowitz use every means at his disposal to try to stop publication of a book critical of US-Israel-Palestinian policy?" the answer is always either "Yes" or "He would have if he had been aware of it" Trying to get people fired from their jobs for expressing any form of criticism of US-Israel policy is *exactly* his MO.
Tell you what SLC, lay out what Dershowitz's defense of torture is not a moral travesty, and I'll agree to view you as something other than a troll?
All I can take from this is that this is just another reason not to vote for Hillary. You know, among the thousands of other ones.
Still hoping that Dershowitz reviews MY's book in TNR.
THE TRUTH Again, the Clintons are trying to divide us by throwing race -- and now gender -- into the mix. The politics of personal destruction? The vast right-wing conspiracy? The meaning of is? The definition of sex? Lies, more lies, and even more blatant lies. This is what the Clintons do best. I am a lifelong Democrat, but I am disgusted by their slimey, vicious, and FRAUDULENT attacks on another Democrat. They have so many skeletons in their closet, it is shocking that they have the audacity to attack with such lust and vigor. Now, with her latest comments, Hillary has gone overboard. Their blinding, desperate need for power is sending them over the edge of decency and morality. Sexual assault by black and Latinos and innocent white women? Excuse me? Are we back in the shameful era of minority lynchings??? Hillary, I am from New York, and at one point I was proud of you, as a strong woman. But now I see you for the cruel human being you really are.
Comments closed February 12, 2008. |
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Heads in the Sand
What more do you need to know?
Posted by jbd | January 29, 2008 12:28 PM