I'm not quite sure I get why Jessica Valenti seems to think a "real doll" rental service is actually any creepier than the core real dolls product in the first place. It seems to me that the basic concept pretty much maxes out the creepometer and it doesn't really get worse under alternative permutations.
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Less Than Zero
02 Jan 2008 06:30 pm
Comments (91)
Really? You don't think paying to use a sex toy that has already been used by hundreds of strangers is several orders of magnitude creepier than using your own private sex toy? Really?
Let's hope Matt posted this without really thinking it through.
Perhaps what Matt means is that beyond a certain level of creepiness, call it the "creepiness horizon", it is no longer possible to increase the level of perceived creepdom. Creepiness essentially hits an upper bound.
I don't know if that's right, but I hardly think that the rented sex dolls, creepy as they may be, are at the horizon. It is easy to think of much creepier stuff, like, I dunno, necrophilia? Rudy Giuliani?
Catching an STD from an inadequately sanitised (paing Douglas Adams) RealDoll is exactly as creepy as using one?
Well, but on the other hand, the authorities frown on boiling your new human girlfriend before sleeping with her. Advantage, RealDoll!
Come on, all you people are falling for the old trap of using the "ick" factor to judge other peoples' sexuality. Sex with dolls may not appeal to you, but I'm willing to bet that we can find people who are convinced that something that gets you off is disgusting. Judge not, lest yea be judged.
It's not as if these dolls are anything kinkier than an elaborate masturbation prop . . .
You're not just having sex with that realdoll, you're having sex with everyone else who's had sex with that realdoll.
Gives a new perspective to used car sale gems like "gently used", and "pre-owned", and "new muffler", doesn't it?
The intuition that there's a risk of disease is pretty much exactly backwards, actually. You're much, much, much, much more at risk having sex with a previously used human than a previously used doll. For one thing, you can wash all traces of herpes off a doll.
I think what creeps her out is the idea that some dude is pimping out his doll....
It's a sad commentary on the breakdown of society when men can't form stable, loyal relationships with their own personal dolls and turn to the transient, depersonalized rental market.
Creepy, sure, but I feel kind of sorry for the guys (and how long will it be only guys?) who use these things, which is a way that I don't feel about guys (and only guys) who haunt the rape and pedophilia sections of my local video rental shop in Tokyo.
I really, really hope that this story develops in such a way that I don't have to hear much about it again.
Until they mechanize the dolls and turn them into awesome fantasy sexbots and then that regular commenter dude can come on and tell us why all we primitive meat people will be TOTALLY PWNED!!!11!! by teh nanoenhanced amongst us.
To each his/her own.
Incidentally, have you looked at the FAQ on the Real Doll site? I have, after watching Lars and the Real Girl (swear to God)--it has to be seen to be believed.
I think a group of people with plastic dicks need to stop bitching about male sex toys in general. Rentable sex toys is indeed a bizarre idea, but the average internet feminists fixation with denouncing men for liking sexual objects just comes off as spiteful and anti-male.
Incidentally, have you looked at the FAQ on the Real Doll site?
I'm sorry. I just can't. I also had a really hard time trying to read an article about adult men who like to dress up like babies and wear diapers and the whole nine yards. I had to stop reading it. There's just a queasiness quotient a lot of us have.
To say that it is creepier in its rental version is a strange bigotry against the working class.
After all, to be an owner of a Real Doll is to be able to throw down thousands of dollars on a sex toy.
Why say that the poorer people who rent the toy are creepier than the members of the ownership class who can buy the thing?
Lets be honest, it's not just rentable sex toys. This is hardly the first time Real Dolls have come up, and hardly a month goes by without some brouhaha about a breast/vagina shaped novelty item.
hardly a month goes by without some brouhaha about a breast/vagina shaped novelty item.
You mean like Ann Althouse, or Pam Atlas? Certainly not Ann Coulter.
Okay, my favorite thing about the realdoll website is when you find the doll you want you click "I WANT HER". HAhahahahahahahahha!
It'll get creepy when they can build them to order based on photographs. Ex-girlfriend, co-worker, right-wing tv commmenter. Hell, I didn't go thru the site, maybe they can & will already.
It probably wouldn't cost all that much more to go to one of those Asian massage parlors that advertise in the back pages of your local alternative newspaper.
To say that it is creepier in its rental version is a strange bigotry against the working class.
After all, to be an owner of a Real Doll is to be able to throw down thousands of dollars on a sex toy.
Why say that the poorer people who rent the toy are creepier than the members of the ownership class who can buy the thing?
I can't figure out why I'm more bothered by the concept of real dolls than a dildo, but I know that I'd never use a real doll whereas I've purchased a vibrator for someone before. I agree with this comment, though. I think if you pinned Valenti down on the issue, she'd concede that there is nothing creepier in principle with renting real dolls. Mostly, I think she objects to the concept of the real doll, being reminded of it and, more importantly, the language with which its sold.
Hey, how'd you like a job on the delivery and pickup end of this specialty rental service? I bet that could win you some points in the "who has the worst job" bar conversations.
I am anti-treating plastic dolls as if they were real women.
- Jessica
It took some reflection, but I've decided to be generous and assume that when Jessica says she's "anti" something, she just means it doesn't agree with her taste. Otherwise, I'd have to call her remark intolerant.
Hey, how'd you like a job on the delivery and pickup end of this specialty rental service? I bet that could win you some points in the "who has the worst job" bar conversations.
Working on the cleaning end of this specialty rental service would be much, much worse.
Cleaning? You just boil her, or it - whatever.
Re: It took some reflection, but I've decided to be generous and assume that when Jessica says she's "anti" something, she just means it doesn't agree with her taste. Otherwise, I'd have to call her remark intolerant.
Gee, and we all know that "intolerant" is the worst thing that a person can be.
'Real Dolls' are a classic example (as if we needed yet another) of the kind of unnatural perversions that have become mainstream in 21st century America. The fact that people are joking about them shows how mainstream it is. The act that should by nature take place within a loving and committed relationship of husband and wife, or perhaps boyfriend and girflfriend, is twisted into a grotesque act involving a plastic doll. There isn't a better definition of 'perversion', and the fact that people think they ought to be 'tolerant' about it is an example of the decadence of late capitalist society.
I'm proud to be intolerant of people like the ones who use these sex toys.
Hector, thank you! I was worried that no one here would believe me that Jessica's remark was just like something you would say.
Hector, you arrived almost on queue. I was worried that no one here would believe me that Jessica's remark was just like something you would say.
Those rental dolls are just sluts. Any man with self-respect would buy his very own.
Here is a piece of plastic. Men do to it what men do. Someone of the female persuasion takes this personally.
Who is creepy?
Seems to me that the live woman is the sicko.
That a soi disant feminist is even wasting her time on this suggests that feminism has outlived its usefulness. Perhaps Valenti can switch obsessions to global warming (It's 29 degrees in Florida right now, btw).
"Let's hope Matt posted this without really thinking it through."
You don't have to hope. Most of his posts are like that. I always assume it on first read.
As for the dolls, I mean, sure, they're ridiculous. But consider it as an aid to imagination (which a lot of people have problems with if they don't have enough porn tapes or even sex stories around to help them) and it's not that weird.
Desperate men spend most of their time in fantasy sex anyway. This really isn't much different than being obsessed with porn tapes - it just costs more (depending on how many porn tapes you buy.)
Now, if I was somebody that desperate - and I am - I'd really like something like this to wake me up to how desperate I am and start doing something about it. I mean, at least read "The Game" or some other "how to pick up babes" books and try to move forward. Spending a bundle on a pile of rubber just doesn't seem very smart compared to the alternatives.
I know, from having tried in the past, that spending money on hookers is mostly a losing proposition. Sex with a hooker is not much different than sex with one of these dolls (I assume, I've never tried a doll.) There's nothing erotic about it. So I can see where some of these guys would find the doll sexier - since it's entirely in their imaginations, undisrupted by the money orientation of your average hooker.
As for being an "unnatural perversion", this isn't even close. Human fetishism comes in a huge variety of behaviors, and this is fairly clean compared to some of them. I mean, how many people have foot fetishes (I can't understand that one at all), leather and vinyl fetishes (you mean you DON'T want to touch her skin? WTF?), not to mention things involving feces and urine. Read some of the psych and sexology literature before you get upset over this tame stuff.
Hector: "The act that should by nature take place within a loving and committed relationship of husband and wife,"
Hector is clueless about human sexual behavior. Sex goes so much deeper than that nonsense he just posted it isn't even funny.
As for vibrators vs dolls, well, a vibrator can be used solo or it can be used on someone else. The doll is pretty much a solo device - although I suppose somebody will buy one to try to simulate a "three-way" with his girlfriend.
I can't wait until "sex robots" - even dumb ones that don't speak or react pseudo-intelligently - become common in the next twenty years or so. I can imagine the posts.
Oh, and El Cid, I suspect real Transhumans won't bother about sex at all once they exist. In the meantime, however, we radical (pre-)Transhumans think sex is about the only thing humans have going for them (and since most mammals do, too, that isn't saying much.) Sex is about replacing fear with desire, and that's a Transhuman attitude.
Nanoaugmentation? Hey, trust me, that will almost certainly be tried. Probably will beat Viagra.
Of all the right wing retard arguments on the internets, my absolute personal favorite is "it's cold outside today, so much for global warming."
Also, contemporary science has demonstrated that men who use the phrase "perhaps femimism has outlived its usefulness" have a median dick length of 271 angstroms.
So, wait, Jessica is saying that if you have sex with a non-virgin, then that is gross?
Fred,
It's cold in Florida? OH MY GOD. I think you should tell all those nobel laureates that you've determined that today's temperature in Florida is actually a much more precise measurement of climate change than the mountains of data they have. Obviously they are going about things all wrong by taking more than one temperature reading from more than one location on more than one day. All those complex models and analyses of present and past climatic conditions and drilling into polar ice to measure carbon dioxide levels over thousands of years... What a waste of time! If only you and Michael Graham and Rush Limbaugh and other acclaimed scientists could've revealed your brilliant methodology before that big liar Al Gore tricked us all.
If you think that's creepy check out the website www.twoRealDollsandacup.com
I'm with Matt, there's no additional creep factor here.
And nobody gets why a realdoll might be creepy to an actual woman? Meethinks that can't really be the case.
There is nothing "creepier" about a used RealDoll than a new one. Ickier? Yes, but the germ/gross factor is really on a different scale than the creepy scale.
Now, if someone deliberately rented a RealDoll because they preferred that the doll had had numerous partners? Okay, that's creepier I guess. But I suspect that few customers enjoy the rental history.
If you don't get why the realdoll is creepy, or if, like Gary Sugar and John McC, you are fine with the idea that women are just orifice packaging, then frankly you're a little creepy yourself.
Fred: (It's 29 degrees in Florida right now, btw).
It appears Fred mistook his IQ for the temperature.
In any case, I'm sure there must be some conservatives in America who are not this jaw-droppingly stupid. But seriously, where? From Fred to Chris Ford to the rest of the internets, they're all from the bottom tail-end of the bell curve. (I guess the one exception is Al, who has a certain animal cunning and clearly takes joy in deceiving his dim bulb compatriots.)
Fred,
It's cold in Florida? OH MY GOD. I think you should tell all those nobel laureates that you've determined that today's temperature in Florida is actually a much more precise measurement of climate change than the mountains of data they have. Obviously they are going about things all wrong by taking more than one temperature reading from more than one location on more than one day. All those complex models and analyses of present and past climatic conditions and drilling into polar ice to measure carbon dioxide levels over thousands of years... What a waste of time! If only you and Michael Graham and Rush Limbaugh and other acclaimed scientists could've revealed your brilliant methodology before that big liar Al Gore tricked us all.
If you don't get why the realdoll is creepy, or if, like Gary Sugar and John McC, you are fine with the idea that women are just orifice packaging, then frankly you're a little creepy yourself.
Really? Truth be told, I don't find the idea of using a RealDoll creepy in the least. Not what I'm looking for, but whatever.
What I do find creepy is imagining some guy developing a faux-relationship with a doll. That's creepy. And someone upthread suggested the possibility of getting a doll that looked like a co-worker or ex-girlfriend. Yikes! Serious creep factor. (although if studies showed that using a RealDoll was the most effective way of treating a stalker and reducing violence against women it sure would be interesting to see what the feminist position on the subject would be)
But what makes it all seem creepy is the idea of a person having a relationship with an inanimate object...not necessarily having sex with it.
Hector writes: "'Real Dolls' are a classic example (as if we needed yet another) of the kind of unnatural perversions that have become mainstream in 21st century America. The fact that people are joking about them shows how mainstream it is. The act that should by nature take place within a loving and committed relationship of husband and wife, or perhaps boyfriend and girflfriend, is twisted into a grotesque act involving a plastic doll. There isn't a better definition of 'perversion', and the fact that people think they ought to be 'tolerant' about it is an example of the decadence of late capitalist society.
I'm proud to be intolerant of people like the ones who use these sex toys. "
Come on, Hector. I agree that these dolls are pretty damn creepy, and I can't see the appeal myself - but rather than seeing it as some horrific perversion, it all just seems truly sad. I have to think someone would be in the depths of loneliness to buy one, and that each time you'd use one you'd end up feeling even shittier and lonelier than ever. I feel sorry for people in that sort of rut. You seem distinctly uncharitable here.
Why is a guy with a Real Doll creepier than a woman with a dildo?
And, are there dildo rental services out there?
"And nobody gets why a realdoll might be creepy to an actual woman? Meethinks that can't really be the case."
I'd guess most of us do, but I'm sure that some of the guys here really can't. And honestly, that says a lot about them.
Another sign that the price of renting real women is just too damn high.
Perhaps Jessica should worry more about treating women as if they were dolls.
On the second thought, this is exactly her point.
Plus, what was it? Three days without any new patriarchal ourtrage?
Roger Bigod, January 2 @ 7:40 PM:
It's a sad commentary on the breakdown of society when men can't form stable, loyal relationships with their own personal dolls and turn to the transient, depersonalized rental market.
Lol, Roger, you're very good at taking a Valenti-knee-jerk-rant to its ultimate nonsensical end. :-) Matt, are you still confused? Well, then, consider this: maybe, sometimes, there's not much thought there, just irrational, intolerant rage.
artappraiser writes: "Lol, Roger, you're very good at taking a Valenti-knee-jerk-rant to its ultimate nonsensical end. :-) Matt, are you still confused? Well, then, consider this: maybe, sometimes, there's not much thought there, just irrational, intolerant rage."
I didn't see any "ranting" or any "rage" in the piece at all. I'm not sure why anyone would. It's just a funny bit about how weird guys like to bone plastic things. It's funny, and if I knew anyone who had one of these things you can bet your ass I'd be making fun of it on a regular basis.
And maybe it's just me, but these things remind me of Laura Bush.
These items have long been prized in Japan; the generic term there is dacchi waifu (Dutch wife). The hero in Imamura Shohei's The Pornographer (1964), having despaired of humanity, ultimately throws himself into building a perfect doll.
Why is a guy with a Real Doll creepier than a woman with a dildo?
A dildo makes no pretense of being a dream man.
"these things remind me of Laura Bush."
Have you seen what these things look like?
Attitude, maybe - looks, no. They're WAY better looking than Laura ever was or will be.
The designers did do a good job in that respect. They look like a lot of the babes on the Net babe sites - and since the dolls are supposedly built with real-life casts, they probably are built on the same measurements as those women.
I wonder if celebrities would like to have people make dolls that are based on casts of them? You'd get to have your own Jessica Biel doll, your own Monica Bellucci doll, etc. You could bang them while watching some video of a sex scene they did, like Monica's in "Shoot 'Em Up".
I tell you, I could make a fortune. Except most of those actresses would probably kill me first when I suggested it to them.
But I bet Carmen Electra would go for it. And some of the dumber bimbos like Paris Hilton or Tara Reid - as long they get their cut.
Is anyone else really curious as to how Hector found this website? He just doesn't seem to be the target audience.
Why is a guy with a Real Doll creepier than a woman with a dildo?
This has been another edition of "World's Dirtiest Zen Koans"
This has been another edition of "World's Dirtiest Zen Koans"
What is the sound of one hand wanking?
What is the sound of one hand wanking?
If a woman gets herself off with a dildo and there's no man there to hear it, does she make a sound?
The real parallel to the dildo would be a fleshlight, which in itself is a bit creepy, but whatever. I'm not saying that RealDolls should be illegal, but if you found out that one of your friends had one, wouldn't it be hard to knock think of them as sick (and I have friends who have unknowingly had affairs with married men they met in gay clubs). You don't have to be a woman or a feminist to find this creepy. YOU'RE FUCKING A FUCKING MANNEQUIN. That's borderline serial killer shit. If there is a version for straight women and gay men called "Bob the Rod" or something, then we'll talk.
"I'm not saying that RealDolls should be illegal, but if you found out that one of your friends had one, wouldn't it be hard to knock think of them as sick (and I have friends who have unknowingly had affairs with married men they met in gay clubs)."
That should be "I'm not saying that RealDolls should be illegal, but if you found out that one of your friends had one, it wouldn't be hard to knock think of them as sick (and I have friends who have unknowingly had affairs with married men they met in gay clubs)."
If there is a version for straight women and gay men called "Bob the Rod" or something, then we'll talk.
Presumably the version for women is called the "Man-Akin."
I agree with everything you said. But I think "the real parallel to the dildo would be a fleshlight, which in itself is a bit creepy," is worth dwelling on. In addition to everything you mentioned, I just think there's more of a stigma (at least in my godless, libertine, hedonistic cirlces) attached to men who have to, or choose to, go to elaborate lengths to get themselves off.
It's pretty acceptable (again, in my death-worshipping, liberal-fascist, hell-bound cirlces) for a woman to use a vibrator--reasons range from "guys can't/don't get me off" to "I don't feel like bothering with a man at the moment." Whereas in an environment where casual sex is acceptable it's viewed as pathetic when a man can't find a sex partner and instead resorts to fake vaginas, fake women, massive consumption of pornography, etc.
Presumably that's part of the reason Valenti said in her post that she mostly found the guys who use human dolls pathetic, instead of saying that she found them threatening. They're pretty much the opposite of sexually aggressive, at least when it comes to their interactions with real women.
60 comments and nothing from Petey? He's falling down on the job.
"60 comments and nothing from Petey? He's falling down on the job.
Posted by otto | January 3, 2008 5:19 AM"
He's busy with his John Edwards Man-Akin, whispering sweet nothings into its rubber ears.
I'm not saying that RealDolls should be illegal, ...
That's good, because if you outlaw RealDolls, then only outlaws will have RealDolls.
if, like Gary Sugar and John McC, you are fine with the idea that women are just orifice packaging, - lemuel pitkin
Oy. I said I'm not "anti-treating plastic dolls as if they were real women". And from that you get "fine with the idea that women are just orifice packaging". This makes sense only if you're condemning not only all pornography as "the idea that women are just orifice packaging" but even everyone who tolerates pornography as "fine with the idea that women are just orifice packaging". So you think porn and people who tolerate porn should be condemned? Or you don't really think that, but the idea of the doll was too much for you, so you freaked out and said something really dumb? Whatever.
Mr. Sugar,
Yes. Yes, I would say that pornography and those who tolerate it should be condemned. This seems so blitheringly obvious to me that I'm not sure why anyone would argue the opposite. Are there realy any of you who think that freedom and tolerance are the highest goods?
I don't know what a fleshlight is, and I don't really think I want to know.
So lemuel pitkin, you agree with Hector?
"Yes. Yes, I would say that pornography and those who tolerate it should be condemned. This seems so blitheringly obvious to me that I'm not sure why anyone would argue the opposite. Are there realy any of you who think that freedom and tolerance are the highest goods?"
Why do I keep on picturing you as Patrick Swayze's character in "Donnie Darko?" I'm guessing Hector is secretly a rapist because his chosen policy here - banning porn - would likely lead to more rape. After all, the liberalization of pornography laws in places like Germany correlated with falling rape rates.
"Are there realy any of you who think that freedom and tolerance are the highest goods?"
Yes. Why don't you go suck a fuck?
"60 comments and nothing from Petey? He's falling down on the job.
Posted by otto | January 3, 2008 5:19 AM"
He's busy with his John Edwards Man-Akin, whispering sweet nothings into its rubber ears.
Posted by Reality Man | January 3, 2008 6:33 AM
I read this like five minutes ago and I'm still giggling. Well done, Reality Man, well done.
This is simple hypocrisy.
A woman, who probably has a sex toy, thinks men who use sex toys are pathetic. That's more than a little self serving. One gender fucking a hunk of plastic is no more or less pathetic than the other gender fucking a hunk of plastic.
To pretend otherwise is sexist in and of itself.
So lemuel pitkin, you agree with Hector?
No. But I do share his (unspoken but no doubt fervent) hope that you spill hot coffee in your lap.
Please, Jessica is protecting the privileges of her gender. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why she uses words like 'pathetic'. It's the kind of word any woman knows that no man ever wants to be called by a woman.
It's no different than some woman doing something I don't like, or think is unlady like, and calling her a slut, a whore, or a bitch just because I know society will cause most women to internalize those judgements. Jessica Valenti pretends to be against patriarchy, but she uses it's language and it's tactics against men when she thinks they are not behaving as our society thinks they should.
I checked out the RealDoll site, only out of academic interest, and it was welll done. Doll #8 Stephanie caught my eye. Intelligent looking, like she'd be a good listener, with just a hint of a smile. They were upfront that she'd have some maintenance costs, like clothes and cosmetics, but that could be a fun project. But I remembered the warning of some of my therapists, that I tend to overinvest in relationships and wind up feeling unappreciated and used. I have to pass on Stephanie. Still, I'll always wonder about what we might have had together.
There's a difference between a dildo and a doll that looks like a person.
And there's a difference between doing something by yourself at home and doing something as a group.
If a woman started advertising that she had a man doll available for rent to other women - and gave that doll a voice that portrayed men in a derogatory way I think most men would be pretty offended by that.
I'm not sure if most men would be offended - men, in general, really don't mind being objectified to the same extent women do due to the lack of female-on-male sexual violence and control - but I would want to know who that hypothetical women Sophie mentions would be so I could make sure I avoided her.
I wonder if necrophiliacs make up a disproportionate number of the RealDoll customer base. I could kind of see some Psychology or Gender and Sexuality professor doing a study on this.
"I read this like five minutes ago and I'm still giggling. Well done, Reality Man, well done.
Posted by Bob | January 3, 2008 10:51 AM"
You're welcome Bob. That's what I'm here for.
"Yes, I would say that pornography and those who tolerate it should be condemned. This seems so blitheringly obvious to me that I'm not sure why anyone would argue the opposite."
Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I'll argue the opposite! I'll do it using Hector's methods of argument: Yes, I would say there's nothing wrong with pornography. Millions (hell, maybe billions) of people enjoy it and it seems blitheringly obvious to me that they're not doing anything wrong.
You know, Hector seems to think a lot of things are "blitheringly obvious" that are not, in fact, obvious at all.
I don't know whether to take Hector seriously or not. If he's ever read Matt's blog before, he can't honestly be surprised that people here are OK with porn. Hell, I'm more than OK with it. I'm pro-porn!
Oh dear God.
People. Dildos are the shape they are because they are a good shape for stimulating the G-spot. Not because women like to have their own personal penis-in-a-box and give it a name and and dress it in little clothes, and talk about how it's so much better than a real penis. Any woman who does that: well, yeah-- creepy and pathetic, and I guess you might consider her dressed-up dildo to be the equivalent of a Real Doll. But I'm thinking those women are rare to non existent.
Anyway. Dildos are not substitute cocks, (let alone substitute men.)
You can establish this easily, as lesbians are slightly more likely to use sex toys for penetration, and lesbians don't actually like cock. Yeah, I know-- sorry to shatter your illusions. It's just a case of form following function. You understand that the same cannot be said of a Real Doll? Or even a Fleshlight?
(Also, most women who own sex toys do not own dildos but vibrators, which are frequently not penis shaped at all. You knew that, right?)
Using a "real doll" may be weird, but I imagine sharing a "real doll" would be equivalent to washing out a used condom and giving it to your buddy, which is several more orders of gross.
I'm still holding out for the robot women, a la AI. Programmed with basic housekeeping skills and the ability to cook, since these are features increasingly difficult to find in actual women.
I realize this whole thread has become an orgy of cooty accusations, and everyone likes to share their ideas about what's gross, but I feel strangely obligated to defend the idea of the Real Doll (not the pimping of them, so much, but hey-every plastic prostitute on the street prevents a real woman from being exploited!).
Look. These guys can't convince real women to sleep with them. Sure, there's something strange about the sort of pygmalion effect that could come with a realistic enough looking masturbatory instrument. So? Is there actually something wrong with developing an emotional relationship with a physical object? Because, like, we're all guilty of something like that-how you feel about your car, or your house, or your computer, or your favorite whatever the hell it is. But you don't have sex with it, you say. Well, again, so what? What is it, precisely, about a "sexual" relationship with an inanimate object that elevates the personal into the disgusting? What I see here are simply gut reactions-the protestant sexual instincts rising to the surface for lack of any other basis to make a judgment.
Let's say you are a 300 lb poor dude, lacking charm and charisma. According to the economics of sex, outside of the miraculous, what the world has to offer you is a poor, 300 lb woman lacking in charm and charisma. I can see how, in this situation, a person whose sexual programming isn't different from anyone else, might decide that he just doesn't like his prospects, since he wants Jessica Alba (or insert your favorite hot chick here) just like everyone else. Why should he be compelled to find a real girl he isn't going to want? Look, sexual standards are going to exist irrespective of the efforts of feminists to alter our conceptions about what counts as sexually gratifying-there is always going to be a hierarchy of beauty, because beauty functions like any other commodity-if fat women became the physical ideal tomorrow, there still wouldn't be enough fat chicks to go around, and skinny girls would lament the sexist behavior of males whose sexual preferences, by the way, were hardwired into their brains before they could even enunciate proper sentences.
There have to be significant chunks of the population that are not engaged in acts that could lead to procreation. This is useful, because we are approaching a point where significant increases in birth rates could have some really bad consequences for the environment and the economy. A space needs to be made for people who have sexual impulses to be able to satisfy those needs as best they can without adding to the pile of human beings we already have. Sex is the most lied about thing in the world-there are far more allegations of sex then there are actual occasions of sex. It's annoying, and annoying that the first impulse that people have when they hear about people who aren't taking the "beaten path" is to get all in high dudgeon about it. If dude wants to hump a doll, by god, leave him alone. He's doing all of us a favor, including himself.
Can someone find me a "real dog"?
gerontion - most sensible thing i've read in a while.
renting the things - incredibly creepy, no matter how well washed they are. but everyone's conclusion that they're inherently creepy in the first place doesn't seem well-founded. dildos aren't "creepy", and this is pretty much just the reverse. there are a lot, lot of guys out there who don't get any for a variety of reasons. comments about how this is "harming men" and how its because of the "patriarchy" are just silly though. no need to look for harm where there isn't any. the dolls aren't creepier than the individual men who buy and use them. which some of them probably are and some probably aren't. whatever floats one's boat. better a sex doll than an unhappy marriage.
just read through this, yeeesh, NEVER underestimate the prudishness of the left, I guess. hilarious at the same time though. people are so uncomfortable about masturbating, that's what jumps out to me as particularly sad. not to mention how "anti" any kind of sex they don't personally prefer most people are. treating the real doll like a real woman??? is valenti kidding? are guys buying them dinner and proposing to them and I didn't notice?
are guys buying them dinner and proposing to them and I didn't notice?
Yes, you missed it.
Why is a dildo better than a man?
1) A dildo is always "up" to the task.
2) A dildo never asks you to fetch it a beer and a snack when you're finished.
3) If you're lost on the road, a dildo won't stop you from asking for directions.
4) A dildo might look like a penis, but never acts like a dick.
5) Men talk. Dildos don't. 'Nuff said.
I hope y'all find me as entertaining as I find you.
"You don't have to be a woman or a feminist to find this creepy. YOU'RE FUCKING A FUCKING MANNEQUIN. That's borderline serial killer shit. If there is a version for straight women and gay men called "Bob the Rod" or something, then we'll talk."
Indeed. And I'm pretty sure there is a male version, and it would be just as creepy. If you asked Jessica, I would expect she'd agree.
"A woman, who probably has a sex toy, thinks men who use sex toys are pathetic. That's more than a little self serving. One gender fucking a hunk of plastic is no more or less pathetic than the other gender fucking a hunk of plastic. "
FFS. This is not about sex toys in general. It's about the RealDoll sex toy.
If there is a version for straight women and gay men called "Bob the Rod" or something, then we'll talk.
There's totally a male version for women and gay men. How could you have missed that?
Of course, this probably won't change the feminist blatherings about the subject...
Of course, I'm sure the male version isn't as popular, unless they've fitted it with some kind of audio playback device capable of saying absurd things like: "You're the most beautiful one of all!" and "I'm too stupid to function without your supreme wisdom and guidance-what would I do without you?" That last one would even make sense, since it would be a lifeless doll talking, after all. I find it amusing that the dildo comedian tries to play off like the speechlessness of a dildo is a plus. I've never gotten more grief from women then when I haven't had anything to say.
"just read through this, yeeesh, NEVER underestimate the prudishness of the left, I guess. hilarious at the same time though. people are so uncomfortable about masturbating, that's what jumps out to me as particularly sad. not to mention how "anti" any kind of sex they don't personally prefer most people are. treating the real doll like a real woman??? is valenti kidding? are guys buying them dinner and proposing to them and I didn't notice?
Posted by onceler | January 3, 2008 3:38 PM"
Besides Hector, who is knocking porn in general, I'm not sure if anyone here is knocking masturbation. A lot of the liberals and lefties I know tend to be pretty pro-masturbation, as long as you aren't creepy about it like jerking off onto a sleeping girl like those college kids did a few months ago (I think in Jersey. Dumb freshmen.).
"Of course, I'm sure the male version isn't as popular, unless they've fitted it with some kind of audio playback device capable of saying absurd things like: "You're the most beautiful one of all!" and "I'm too stupid to function without your supreme wisdom and guidance-what would I do without you?" That last one would even make sense, since it would be a lifeless doll talking, after all. I find it amusing that the dildo comedian tries to play off like the speechlessness of a dildo is a plus. I've never gotten more grief from women then when I haven't had anything to say.
Posted by gerontion | January 3, 2008 6:33 PM"
Ok, this made me laugh out loud at work. "Hello. Smithers. You. Are. Really. Good. At. Turning. Me. On."
Matt now knows what he needs to do to jack up his ratings.
Post about sex dolls - or anything about sex.
Drags out posters nobody has ever seen here before.
Pretty much proves the point why sex dolls exist, doesn't it?
Re: yeeesh, NEVER underestimate the prudishness of the left,
Yes, the left indeed has traditionally been fairly puritan. Read Hobsbawm's essay 'Revolution and Sex' for details. The comments in this posts are anything but puritan, of course, which is further evidence of the point that American liberals are not on the 'left' in any meaningful sense of the word.
The problem with too many liberals is that you all grasp instinctively at some level that sex dolls are evil, but because of your misguided first principles (such as 'freedom' 'tolerance' etc. being the ultimate goods, and denying any kind of morality based on what is good, true, natural, etc.) you cannot intellectually justify that position. so you end up going with your intellect instead of your heart, which is your cardinal error. You would do better by listening to your hearts which tell you that sex dolls are a disgusting perversion. If your principles cannot give you any good intellectual grounds to say that sex dolls, incest, pornography etc. are wrong, then perhaps what is mistaken is your principles.
Ultimately without beginning with some conception of what is 'natural' and good for a human being and without some preexisting conception of ideal good to which all behavior must conform, liberals are unable to make a principled case in favor of the welfare state, common ownership of the economy, provision for the sick and hungry, social reform or revolution, or any other left wing goals.
Comments closed January 16, 2008.
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Heads in the Sand
Catching an STD from an inadequately sanitised (paing Douglas Adams) RealDoll is exactly as creepy as using one?
Posted by Dabney Braggart | January 2, 2008 6:37 PM